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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge vs Bhaal´s Cataclysm



  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    @CrevsDaak: Jelly form does get removed, which I actually consider a bug, because the spell filename is the same for both BG1 and BG2 and so it would ostensibly transfer. I actually Keepered mine back in. But yes, you would need help adding circles to that map in order to teleport out of it, unless perhaps a familiar could help, or if you were playing with Spell Revisions and therefore could have a level 1 summoning spell to spawn in some gibberlings. Of course, Spell Revisions would also give you Dimension Jump, and while that wouldn't let you teleport to the portal itself, it could let you teleport past the duergar (dodge a spawn trigger for the first, sneak past the second, jump over the third and fourth). Also, the level 1 SR monster summoning spell could always just let you lure the duergar around and divert enough crossbow bolts that you could get past them.

    If you had Imoen, Jaheira, and Minsc join the party and then immediately kick them out, and also use Expeditious Retreat to scurry away from them in such a way that they'll all follow you over to the portal at the same time, theoretically you could have all of their circles right next to yours at the same time and therefore let you jump over the wall. But that seems way too precise for a one-time trick in a no-reload context.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    After casually eating brains in Planar Sphere I noticed something, enemies don't give any xp dying, which is slight inconvenience. So I returned to Death Fogs, 8 apr Planetar and Skelis to mob up. Lavok was casually Death Fogged out of sight. Tanari brains were delicious. Tried Fogging Tolgerias out of sight but they retreated and summoned an absolute hoard of enemies which I had to wait out. More Death Fogs, but also upped my game with Incendiary Cloud, and there was little they could do. Level 19 with Improved Alacrity, and also got Ring of Wizardy and Golden Girdle from the Mage stronghold.


    Watchers Keep 1st level, ate Vampiric brains during Time Stop, and then summons swept the level and first four statues easily. Time Stop and ate the two high level mage statues. After that summons easily wiped the last six statues. Level 20.


    Watchers Keep 2nd level, ate the two Fire Giants, summons wiped the rest. Chromatic Demon petrified 13th strike from WoW as summons kept it company. Level 21.


    Watchers Keep 3rd level I left be for now, before I turn to evil. Guarded Compound met super gas, Death Fog trigger and multiple Incendiary Clouds, and they were quickly killed. Although impressively Stalman was immune for them. 8 apr planetar then hacked him easily. Planetar soloed Kalah guest. Then multiple clone Planetars blasted the undead bridge. After forging the Rift Device, I went and ate Gaal brains for the Girdle of Fortitude. With the belt I can have 8 hours 16 con for max hp bonus, currently 115 hp.


    Before leaving I ate the brains of the Lich, and commissioned Roger the Fence to smuggle the device out. Then went and casually ate the other minor Lich. Used PfU for Kangaxx, waited his Planetar out, 2x Mind Focus, Power, Improved Haste and started ranging with Boomerang Dagger. It was taking too long, so I just cast three Time Stops and reduced him to 1 hp transforming him. After he ascended to a powerful being, I stoned him with first hit from WoW. Level 22.


    Armed with gas for all, Wand of Cloudkill, 3x Death Fog trigger and 3x Incendiary Cloud contingency, Prada ascended to Planar Prison. The landing was quickly leveled. Then I ate Master of Thralls and Warden both during couple Time Stops. Got Boots of Speed among other loot.


    Shade Lord was a handful. Planetar attacked it as I tried killing the Shadow Altar with Time Stops, to stop the Shadows. But it had too good DR, so I used my last Time Stop to eat its brains. Planetar only got Shadow Lord to near death. Casting Planetar on to enemy makes it cast Invisibility, and you can't then cast Improved Haste on it. Summoned Magical Swords and Skelis, but Shadow Lord repelled all. Enough of this, two Incendiary Clouds, done. Thaxll interestingly cast Blind and Greater Malison, even being neutral, but after few strikes he was stoned too. Level 23.


    Some small things still. City Gates Lich was hacked with three Time Stops. Claicus dispelled with Remove Magic, and built FoA +3, which interestingly cannot be sold. Ruhk hacked during three Time Stops. Single 8 apr Planetar was enough for all the Guardians and Director. Samias gang got gas chamber from 3x Death Fog trigger and 3x Incendiary Cloud contingency as I blocked the escape. 140k gold, and I've been saving all my gems and arrows for the Shaguain merchant. Bought 50 Mind Focus potions, all the interesting scrolls, and Staff Mace +2 which is one handed quarterstaff and highest damage I could now wield off-hand. Also recharged all my wands and I was left 20k. Time to finally leave for Brynnlaw.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    Screwed up the level 1 run. Apparently 100% magic resistance can't protect you from your own Wand of Cloudkill charges, nor can an Anti-Magic Shell. Only jelly form can block it, but it seems that Anti-Magic Shell prevents you from using jelly form. We died before we could try the Twisted Rune, but our plan was to use an Animate Dead scroll and a Farsight scroll to toss a bunch of Wand of Cloudkill charges over to Layenne's position before crossing the trigger that spawns Shangalar--that way she would die very quickly and we wouldn't have to burn our aura on the first round to do so.

    I've gotten very lazy lately, and the deaths don't bother me as much. I think I'm just drifting away from the game. I always felt a little ambivalent about the Diviner->Cleric run, since it seemed easier than my Archer run but was not much more unique after it started gaining levels after SoD.

    Anyway, Kangaxx is doable at level 1. If you use a Protection from Undead scrolls on the two liches as well as yourself (again, the WoL trick saves scrolls), you can whomp them uncontested in jelly form. A WoL-boosted Potion of Firebreath took down Kangaxx's lich form outside of LoB mode, but I assume jelly form could slay him as well. The Wand of Wonder can't petrify the liches, but it can petrify Kangaxx--I borrowed that from @histamiini.

    The run would get more complicated without the infinite gold exploit. It would involve a lot more work in jelly form, but you can recharge the Wand of Cloudkill right out of Chateau Irenicus, and that should be sufficient to wipe out early BG2 critters and generate thousands of gold long before it runs out of charges. Short of a Fallen Planetar vorpal strike, stat drain, or a Lower Resistance Spell Trigger followed by Maze or PW: Kill, jelly form is invincible at 1 HP; it has unbreakable immunity to petrification, charm, and the slay opcode. Still, the Wand of Cloudkill can disrupt any mage except for perhaps Lavok and Irenicus, and Protection from Undead scrolls can shield you from any stat-draining critter except for Spirit Trolls, TorGal, and some ToB critters like Yaga-Shura or whoever. As for the trolls, you can probably maintain a short-lasting wall of invisible Efreet and nuke the trolls from behind the wall, taking advantage of the Efreet's fire immunity.

    If you killed Valygar, forged the golem in the Planar Sphere, and blocked the Finger of Death trap with a Minor Spell Deflection scroll or something, you could get the Staff of Fire pretty early and then rely on your damage immunity to roast any critter that couldn't stand up to the rechargeable red Fire Shields. You'd still have to beat the Planar Sphere to get anywhere else, but I suppose area transition abuse could break Lavok and a Potion of Freedom and WoL+Pierce Magic scroll->damage spell scroll could net you a Demon Heart to get back to Athkatla. Blue Fire Shield scrolls might be very important for some late-game BG2 enemies, just like they are for Belhifet.

    With Emotion Hope and Emotion Courage scrolls on top of the fire giant belt, gauntlets, and Belt of the Skillful Blade, I calculate that even a level 1 character could deal 135 base damage during Time Stop with Improved Haste active, dual-wielding BBoD and the Dagger of the Star. If you used all 9 guaranteed Time Stop scrolls at the Throne of Bhaal, you're looking at 3,645 theoretical damage across 27 rounds. Much of that could be lost to buffs wearing off, but it's enough to kill three Fallen Solars, which means you can actually win the first fight at the Throne at level 1, albeit at a very high cost in scrolls--and you'd want Time Stop scrolls for other fights like the Slayer in Hell.

    The Fallen Solars could take damage from a red Fire Shield, but I don't think that would make a big difference considering it would be very slow damage and their Heal spells let them survive wars of attrition.

    After that, I'm guessing it would just be a Fire Shield kill on one of the Five and then a WoL Rift Device on everyone when Melissan arrives, followed by a really long grind with the Sling of Everard or maybe the Staff of the Magi/Rhynn. If you got the Archer's Eyes, that would double your criticals with slings and jelly form, so I'm guessing the sling would be better even when in melee.

    You might have to do a stupid amount of kiting and tanking to beat the saga in LoB mode at level 1. The WoL trick drops off in power in ToB as scrolls and wands get less impactful, and your damage options just don't scale very well. Anything that's immune to petrification is going to be hard to kill. You might just have to use a whole bunch of Fire Shields from the Staff of Fire to clear out places like Sendai's Enclave, and Imprisonment or Energy Drain scrolls for any critters where that's not realistic.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    Perth was hacked with Two Time stops, from the book got True Seeing as second spell, I think I'm keeping that. Summons blasted Irenicus Dungeon. Used Farsight trick on Irenicus and neverending stream of summons first depleted his Death spells, and then hacked him to 1 hp, and he surrendered immediatelly when I released prisoners. Got 140k gold for selling my loot. Planetar soloed Shaguains, level 26. Planetar soloed then most of Underdark. Lich was softened by summons, before Planetar finished it. The Balor was casually eaten. Vithal was fogged out of sight. Elder Orb escaped twice my apetite with Shadow Door during Time Stops, but not the third time. Looted the rest of the dungeon and left. After shopping Ust Natha I was still left 70k gold.


    First physical encounter with Mind Flayers in the ambush, two Time Stops and all were eaten. Level 27 for fogging the small mob. Qiules home was smoked too and got Bone Blade +4 which interestingly does less damage than Staff Mace +2, 5-8 vs 4-10, so ability to hit few +3 immunity enemies is its only quality. Ate the Lich and betrayed the Drow.


    Mind Flayer dungeon. Summons handled the first few fights. I wasn't hurting even the first Mind Flayer, so I used PI who cast Time Stop to eat the Mindi, but alas she couldn't attack during the Time Stop. Don't know if that's a bug or supposed to be like that? Another Time Stop to kill the next two Mindies, third for the third party, which was another small one. Lastly I ate the gourme meal, Master Brain during fifth Time Stop. Well that was easy in the end. Picked Ring of Fire Control, Staff of Command and also I got the four Control Circlets and escaped. Level 28. Adalon pwned the exit and I escaped the Under Dark.


    Bought all the interesting scrolls from Ribald for about 100k, fogged the Mage in North Forest for the third Time Stop scroll, went and stoned Firkraag the last time spending two WoW's to reach level 31. Ate the top level of Bodhi's lair with PfU and 5 Time Stops, Valen and Tanova required Enchanted Weapon. Before going downstairs I went and slept and used another PfU. Ate Bodhi's mob where as Planetar attacked Bodhi. Tried eating Bodhi but she was immune for Int drain. I wasn't able to do enough physical damage to kill her, so I used all my gasses and HLA's which was just about enough.


    Nizi evaded my stoning, and after my Planetar got unsummoned I had to kite his Haste out. Time Stop, Alacrity, 5 Swords and unloaded all spells on him, but it did hardly any damage. Continued peppering with WoW and he was finally stoned after no less than 24 hits. Rillifane then cleansed Suldanesselar. Tried gassing Jon in Tree of Life but he Dimension Doored onto me. No matter, I waited his summons and depleted his spells casually with Invisibility, then Planetar killed him.


    Sorcerer powers on, not really had any close calls in SoA, only in the sewer Mind Flayer place I lost half of my health. Next to choose rewards from Hell, I'm still thinking 25 str and +4 saves. I'll need physical damage against Solars, and possibly against the Big Six, so it's good to have maximum power. Those are the problem as I plan to bomb Melissan in this run.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    @histamiini: Good thinking on the 25 STR.

    Project Image clones cannot attack, whether during Time Stop or not. Before EE, it was possible to get around this restriction by using an item that reset your APR, like the mind flayer weapon, Firetooth +3, the BMU-related ammunition, or the Shadow Thief Dagger (though that last one no longer resets your APR at all). Unfortunately, that exploit was closed in one of the earlier updates.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    edited August 2019
    Doh, yeah it even reads in the tin. Well level 31 Sorcerer can cast level 19 sim too, which can cast 4 Time Stops and all abilities and hla's. Also PI can cast level 31 sim, who can cast all 6 Time Stops. So in theory I could cast 9 PI's, who all could cast 8 sims, to 80 overall sim clones on a single rest, all able to use Time Stops and Mind Flayer form. That's like almost 30 hours of Time Stop on single rest. :D

    Level 31 specialist mage sim can cast two 9th level spells, and pure mage one, so in that regard Sorcerer has them beat.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    Also the Dragon in Hell was a handful, surviving Planetar and evading my WoW. Used couple Time Stops to hack him to pieces from near death. Got fifth Time Stop scroll. Chose 25 str and +4 saves from the Tears.


    For the Slayer I summoned 5 Skelis, then backed up, Time Stop, and ate both Balor's and Glabrezus before backing up. Waited his Efreeti out, Sim clone who cast Time Stop and couple Pierce Shields, then we started dual casting Incendiary Clouds out of sight, then Death Fogs, and Slayer was soon dead.


    Getting to ToB, rather than using EEkeeper to update my Familiar hp bonus, as it doesn't update if it's in your pocket when transitioned, I drank couple Shielding potions, and killed my Familiar. This set my con to 3 with -10 hp, which I'll get back from Machine of the Lum. But after casting new Familiar, it still just gave 34 hp rather than 58 hp. It's a bug, I tried killing my Familiar before the transition, and casting it again gave the correct 58 hp. So I still had to update it with EEkeeper. Hp was now 99, 108 with Ioun stone, and I'll get another 10 hp from the Machine. Also using the Girdle of Fortitude I can get it to 141 hp for 8 hours. Although because I now have penalty of 3 con, Girdle of Fortitude sets con to 15, and I'll be short of 10 hp of the max Sorcerer hp. Reported this bug.

    Lured Illasera away being Invisible and casting PfMW, then Planetar, and used Time Stops to hack her. But she was being annoying escaping with Invisibility three times just before my Time Stop hit. Had to cast couple Swords to take her out. First Pocket Plane challenge, summon door trick as a back up, and then gassed all. Saradush landing gassed. Did the mundane guest, bought scrolls with 150k. Prison vampires were eaten, and built Circlet of Netheril for some additional spells. Then I ate my way to Gromnir, then his minions. Gromnir himself is immune to eating, so I cast 4 Swords and Planetar, who were able to kill him.


    Watcher's Keep level 3, passed Death Magic Balor room and got audience from Tahazzar being evil. I hacked him to pieces during four Time Stops. Buffed up, passed Wild Magic Quasit room, Succubus room to Ka'rashur. Managed to pause and back up before dialogue hit, which didn't really matter as I was going to hit PfMW and Time Stop anyway. Again four Time Stops was enough with 6 apr Firetooth +3 and Bone Blade +4. Both Tahazzar and Ka'rashur are immune to +2 weapons. Then Wild Magic Quasit room, Wild Magic Tiefling, Demon Knights, Demon Wraith and I was in the last room with Aesgareth. Played twice for scroll of Wish but lost both, Planetar handled the Assassins. Full Wand of Wander stoned all of Aesgareths mob except the Thief Tiefling. I charmed it with Staff of Command, and killed it away from others during Time Stop. Aesgareth was hacked then with three Time Stops. Before leaving I tested my luck with Deck of Many Things.


    1st Draw (SI:Abjuration, SI:Evocation): RUIN
    2nd Draw (SI:Alteration, SI:Enchantment): VOID
    3rd Draw (SI:Conjuration): MOON

    So I got MOON 10 hp first time ever, in the run that I'm kind of short of hp. Well that's, lucky.


    Watcher's Keep level 4, summons swept the main level. Saladrex stoned. Battle with the dreaded Demilich was battle of casting power. It's immune to +3 Weapons so no eating. Time Stop, Alacrity, 4 swords and Planetar. It killed the Swords but Planetar kept company. Time Stop, 2x Pierce Shield to lower his 100 MR. 3x Death Fog trigger. Multiple Time Stops, Pierce Shield, Pierce Magic's, gasses, but the Demilich wasn't being injured. I kept kiting it and unloading all my summons. After resorting to Spell Immunity scroll, it seemed to finally be out of spells. The problem now was to overcome its 90 DR. My fogs didn't seem to injure it even though I did use Pierce Shield multiple times. After spending all my spells I was out of options, found 4 Black Blade Disaster scrolls, and used them. But the Demilich found Stoneskins from somewhere. And he still had 14 hp left after the 4 BBD's. I was using so much different stuffs, that I stopped writing it down, because this would be a page long battle. And after 5 very high rolls with Staff of Ram +4, the Demilich was finally dead. Hmhh, I'm sleepy... Got Dagger of Stars +4 which I upgraded immediatelly with Cespenar to be Sorcerer's best weapon after BBD, and Greater Grimoire of Demon Binding, which is pretty useless, when I don't have any Demon summons. I would say this Demilich is probably the toughest single enemy in the game after Melissan, small guarters, immune to everything and +3 weapons, sees through PfU, 100 MR and 90 DR.


    Reflecting my spell book. Now I did take Black Blade Disaster instead of Imprisonment, because I don't know if I need Imprisonment other than against Ogremoch. BBD will give me some damage bonus against Solar's for example. But I'm thinking I screwed up level 4 spells. Stoneskin and Spirit Armor has been on high demand, but the Spider Spawn is pretty useless. Even with 6 apr, their Thac0 is 10 so they aren't hitting much, and I can use elemental staffs if I need stream of summons. Also Farsight I've used once against Irenicus, and don't think I'll need it again. And Greater Malison is reserved mostly against Abazigal. Both of these could've been cast from scrolls. Currently thinking I should've taken is, Emotion: Hope, Emotion: Courage and Enchanted Weapon. Although these too can be cast from scrolls no problem, and I've five Enchanted Weapons and 16 Hope's and Courage's left, they would've been on higher demand, and I've been saving them up a little.
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 608
    I read about @semiticgod 's find with the 1 hp trick the other day and wanted to try it for quite a while, and today i finally did.
    Did not want to go no reload tho, since I wanted to try out some wild mage shenannigans.
    What's pretty interesting is wild mage can cast any spell in the book, memorized or not, no matter the level
    as a level 1 character one can even cast level 9 spells.
    Ofc wild surges are quite likely at this level but in a reload scenario this is pretty fun.
    The 1 hp trick eliminates the danger from quite a few wild surges, also there are quite a few wild surges which still let you cast the desired spell, so a 99 is not necessary.
    And also ofc quite a few wild surges are pretty good even tho they won't give you the spell.
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    Hi everyone,

    I have recently finished my first run in LoB with a party (custom made, 5 characters, ranged heavy, with no high level spellcasting but lots of summons to aggro, quite powerful), and decided to take it one step further and try it solo.

    Sadly, this is the only real thread about solo LoB, but i can’t fully respect the challenge, since I don’t have SCS (playing on iPad). Also, I don’t play no-reload since I’m just not that good ;-)

    I have decided though to try a solo LoB run with a lawful evil FMC, and BG1 so far has been going great (I face now the all time challenge for a LoB run of the coronation and preventng the dukes from dying too fast).

    A few observations first :
    - I choose to make a lawful evil FMC, to get the Imp familiar for his innate Polymorph Self spell, which got me so much satisfaction in my melee-sorcerer run (detailed here :
    - the beginning of BG1 went really smoothly with the help of my Imp, the FMC casting buffs and disablers (i love the blindness spell, especially with the aid of Doom from the cleric sphere), and helping the Imp (mostly in Jelly form at first to strike from range, spider when Web got available, Flind or Ogre rest of’the time) in melee when running out if spells or once enemies are disabled.
    - speaking of the Imp, I noticed that conversations don’t trigger when the Imp gets in range of ennemies like Mulahey or the like, so it also serves as a parmenent, useful and fighting Wizard’s Eye. So useful, it is borderline cheesy.
    - I try not to rely on wands of cheese (wand of monster summoning and wand of paralization), which make the LoB run less challenging for my gameplay style, since I allow myself to reload and would abuse it if I allow myself to it.
    with this in mind, although I have these two wands in my bag, I forbid myself to use them against named ennemies, and either rely on my own spells/scrolls/other strategies, or skip the fight entirely (e.g. the one on top of the iron throne, I just went for the letters at the back and reported to Duke Eltan to go back to candlekeep)
    - As you can guess, I am not a completionist, but I still want this to be a real run and a real challenge, and will try to do as much as I can, but only on the premisce that I find a reason to do it. Which is why i did not even bother to go for Drizzt or the aforementioned fight on the iron throne (went for Dushai and killed her for the RoFA instead)
    - FMC is quite a great combo, lots of disablers available even at low level, special mentions to Web and Silence 5’ radius (enemy saves at -5 !! make a lot of fights not even a fight when cast from out of range using my cheesy little imp as a scout)
    - I will have to use summons, although their extra HP and beefiness on LoB makes even the lowest summon a real fighter, which I find a bit too "easy" in the spirit of my challenge, and hardly a solo run anymore. But as a FMC in BG1, max lvl is 6/6/6 so no lvl4 spells (stoneskin most notably, luckily there are a lot of Greater Malison scrolls to buy in Sorcerous Sundries), and many fights will require this extra beefiness. I am quite satisfied to have managed to beat Davaeorn without summons though (just used one Skeleton to aggro the 2 Horrors out of sight, so my Imp and I could focus on Davaeorn), the Imp in Jelly form (poison+slow effect on hit) and my own disablers (my second cast of Silence worked on a Doomed Davaeorn) were enough to kill him.

    This is it so far for my BG1 run, I just came out of Candlekeep’s catacombs, will make a detour through Durlag’s tower to try and get Durlag’s goblet (or run away from the tower in fear) before returning to BG City. I don’t expect any difficulties before the Coronation and Sarevok himself during the main campaign.

    I have done SoD (core rules) two or three times, once in Insane, and once in LoB but with a very powerful group and using a LOT of cheese (mainly, massive use of WoMS at every turn).

    Oh and also, even though I have played the game a million times solo or with a party, believe it or not, it is my first time as a FMC, but I consider it quite similar to my old gnomish Cleric Illusionist, a bit less arcane spells but better fighting capabilities. Or am I missing some better sinergy the fighter class brings to that character ?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    @histamiini: Isn't the Slayer vulnerable to INT drain? I don't remember if I've used it before, but I believe it's possible.

    Have you had any trouble with nonmagical, schoolless disablers, or has Improved Invisibility been enough to ensure successful saving throws? Psionic Maze and Psionic Blast can have a save penalty of -4 if they come from an Ulitharid, which always seemed very dangerous to me for a single-classed mage whose Spell Immunity could not block it. If you only fought mind flayers via Time Stop, that would make the issue immaterial, but I've been wondering if there are other disablers that Spell Immunity couldn't stave off, especially before the +4 to saves from Hell. I've always been anxious about the stuff that Spell Immunity can't stop.

    Are those missing BBoD scrolls going to be an issue?

    I don't see a major problem with the missing Emotion spells. I actually thought they wouldn't be worth taking for a sorcerer, since you seldom need the bonuses and SCS v32 really does add plenty of those scrolls, much like IWDification did.

    @Victor_Creed_SFV: I didn't find the 1 HP trick. It's kind of an old exploit, and @sarevok57 confirmed that it worked in BGEE, and I believe he's also the one who pointed out at least one of the ways (Claw of Kazgaroth or Vial of Mysterious Liquid) you could hit the necessary 1 CON. I've just been developing the metagame; @sarevok57 lit the fire.

    I've heard that it's possible to cast Nahal's Reckless Dweomer infinitely via hotkey even in EE, but I'm not sure if that's still possible, or how it might be done. I dimly remember someone suggesting that you could still assign it to a hotkey through some alternate means from the standard in-game menu. If it's still available, infinite NRD spells could be very nice.

    However, Polymorph Other sets your HP to 5, so if the wild surges that polymorph your character do the same thing, that could actually be fatal on a failed save.
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 608
    semiticgod wrote: »

    I've heard that it's possible to cast Nahal's Reckless Dweomer infinitely via hotkey even in EE, but I'm not sure if that's still possible, or how it might be done. I dimly remember someone suggesting that you could still assign it to a hotkey through some alternate means from the standard in-game menu. If it's still available, infinite NRD spells could be very nice.

    However, Polymorph Other sets your HP to 5, so if the wild surges that polymorph your character do the same thing, that could actually be fatal on a failed save.

    Assigning a hotkey is indeed still possible (you can assign both the quickslot OR the spell directly) but it does not give you infinite casts unless I'm missing something obvious.

    As to wild surges there is a couple of others which are fatal besides polymorph other, but the 1 hp trick does make wild surging a lot less scary, no reload is definitely impossible unless one would get insanely lucky, but the wild mage adds a certain flavor to the 1 hp class. :D
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 608
    edited August 2019
    Sorry for double post, but I just read the exploit page on the wiki, and apaprently the hotkey trick did only work with mages/sorcerers/bards who don't actually know Nahal's due to not being a wild mage, thus the infinite casts.
    Apparently it's not possible to hotkey an unknown spell in EE anymore, and since wild mages know the spell they won't get infinite casts.

    edit: just checked with my FMC and the hotkey for nahals is still in the menu but the key doesn't work anymore, due to the mage not having Nahals memorised, so they did not "fix" the hotkeying but just the casting of unknown/unmemorized spells via hotkey.
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    edited August 2019
    @histamiini thanks for the heads up. Indeed, did not think about harm+critical strike combo.

    About the mindflayer form : in normal unmodded game, the 4 first trials in Pocket Plane fall to his devour brain ability, even the Slayer. Ravager is immune though (to MF's attacks at +2, not to devour brain per se).

    Some strange stuff : Draconis human form was hit by devour brain but did not die from it since he needs to trigger his conversation and transform in dragon form. So I had to hit him until his HP was low, he transformed and.... Died immediately upon transforming as his Int was drained from before the transformation ! Quite funny to be honest.

    Did not work against Abazigal though, as he was immune to my attacks if I remember correctly (maybe just did not try the same strategy twice).

    I don't know if SCS changes any of that

    EDIT : @histamiini I just checked the wiki's description on Martyr's Morningstar. They say that the 15% HP loss on criticals does not count LoB bonus HP. Can you confirm the usefulness of said weapon in that case ? Since it only strikes as +2, it will need a cast of Enchanted Weapon to hit Big B, and special effect only triggers on criticals, so it seems random at best (Even with one-handed fighting style, luck and chants), and not really useful at worst ?
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 608
    @monico The wiki seems wrong to me, unless Martyr's got changed since I tested it it works vs LoB hp and tbh I have no idea how they would make it otherwise, the enemy has x amount of hp and it substracts 15%, do you really think the weapon would check in the gamefiles what hp said critter has on non lob?
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    @monico It's wrong description. I checked the wiki page, and it's edited before 2018, and I've definitely used it since, and it works with LoB bonus.
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    Thanks for the input guys. I also just double checked and noticed that luck does not increase critical chance (thks @semiticgod for his thorough explanation on luck in another thread).

    I don't remember all gear from SoD, is there anyway to increase the critical range for a FMC using the Martyr's Morningstar, except 1 handed weapon proficiency ?
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    edited August 2019
    @monico No way to increase it for Martyr's Morningstar other than Single-Weapon Style. I wouldn't worry it too much as it's still fastest way of killing Bel. You only need 6 crits, which with 3 apr should be like 20 rounds or so on average. Remember to use Protection from Fire to 100 Fire Resistance, otherwise Bel will teleport annoyingly.
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    edited August 2019
    Thanks, I’ll try that (I first planned on using wand of polymorphing after debuffing him, to be honest ?)

    Also, on topic of Mindflayer shapechange, I loaded a previous save before Draconis, and tested again (remember, it’s vanilla, non SCS and non LoB) :
    - my DD was immune to his invisible stalker summons attacks (I’m actually not sure why, to be honest, I thought they hit as +2), and, even weirder, immune to Draconis attacks. Unless the non-modded Mindflayer form has immunity to weapons I did not notice before ? (hard to notice such immunity when you are buffed and your opponents normally die within half a round at worst)
    - I confirm that Draconis cannot die from devour brain, but as soon as he transforms, he dies despite his auto-heal spell.
    It makes his taunt before transforming really funny.


    EDIT : I’m not familiar with SCS and Ascension, I know they change drastically those TOB boss fights, but in vanilla, none of Sendai’s clones are immune to my mindflayer form... It was the easiest win against Sendai in all my runs, battle lasted barely a turn or two. And should not be any more difficult in LoB, provided you get good enough thac0 to hit her regularly (Tenser and strength belts should suffice, at least they do in regular ToB)
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    edited August 2019
    @monaco Tried that tactic against Draconis, sadly doesn't seem to work with SCS. Mind Flayer form itself is pretty useless without Critical Strike, or Time Stop to quarantee a hit in LoB. With SCS and Ascension the Sendai battle is quite a bit harder. The statues have -20 AC and the Drows have -33 Thac0 and use GWW's which will eat you up in a round without DR, PfMW or similar. Because Mind Flayer can't recast protections, Time Stop is pretty much only way to eat them up.
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    Yeah, feared as much. Also read on the play it hardcore spell list that Ascension made sure some TOB bosses are immune to devour brain.

    Also, i tested if my save had some bug ‘cause i found it really weird that neither Draconis nor the invisible stlakers could hit my sorcerer, but he has no immunity (even in Mindflayer form) to +2 weapons, so I can only conclude that they only strike as +1 in vanilla ToB. Seems a bit underwhelming for a late-ToB fight.
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    @histamiini oh, btw, I wouldn’t dare take on Sendai or any other Bhaalspawn in LoB with this strategy without PfMW (for example, one in spell trigger along with Imp. Haste and Tenser upon entering the fight, 1 in normal contingency upon being hit, and another one along with Stoneskin and Mislead or the like upon 50% health).

    This make their huge thac0 and whirlwinds not a threat anymore. Only problem then is actually hitting them with their crazy AC.
    In my normal playthrough, my shapeshifting sorcerer got -7 thac0 in mindflayer form with Tenser and Fire Giant strength belt. Not quite enough to deal constant damage indeed, but as we took into account using some kind of fighter/mage multi, thac0 should be better, and time stop (not perfect) or Critical Strike (better solution) can circumvent that problem.

    no, for me, the real problem would be if Ascension and SCS changed drastically the TOB bosses to make them either immune to +2 weapons (could be somewhat circumvented with puting Ench. Wpn in a sequencer along with Tenser, does not resolve the problem for the Ravager or Demogorgon), or worse, immune to the Intelligenc drain effect.

    I’ll let you have the joy (or frustration) to discover this by yourself, since I don’t have either of those mods ;-)

    But I can assure you that in non-modded LoB game, the mindflayer form with proper buffs could own most of ToB encounters by itself.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    edited August 2019
    With latest Ascension and SCS the Big 5 seems now all to be immune to Int drain, I think all Dragons are immune, Kangaxx Demilich, Demilich and Bodhi are too. Melissan, Ravager and Solar's are immune indirectly as they're immune to +3 weapons.
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    edited August 2019
    histamiini wrote: »
    With latest Ascension and SCS the Big 5 seems now all to be immune to Int drain, I think all Dragons are immune, Kangaxx Demilich, Demilich and Bodhi are too. Melissan, Ravager and Solar's are immune indirectly as they're immune to +3 weapons.

    Then I’m glad my solo run with Zerog did not include Ascension. It would not have felt the same (well, it was already the case for demilichs, ravagers, solars, demogorgon and even against the few others immune to +2 or less, as i did not bother getting enchanted weapon anyway since other forms, especially Slayer form, did the job quite well for those in non LoB)
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    edited August 2019
    Mind Flayer base. PfMW and cast Time Stop activating the first party. Couple Time Stops and all were eaten. Eating through Time Stop is pretty convinient as you can change to Invisible (SoM) human form instantly, back up or cast PfMW and then cast another Time Stop and continue the loop. Before resting I ate the Umber Hulk party too. Next big Mind Flayer party was 4 Time Stop long lunch, so I definitely needed to rest again. Last party I targeted the Ulitharid with the half of rod, and escaped during Time Stop. Although the Vampiric Ulitharid script broke Time Stop. Conviniently the Mindies didn't follow outside this time. Rock and Garock were eaten too. Then used the Machine to buff up. Got 10 hp from Con and 1 AC from Dex bonus as I'm Elf. My hp is now 129 the Circlet, 149 with Girdle of Fortitude.


    Watcher's Keep fifth level, Test of Stamina can be waited invisible, Green Dragon stoned. Spirit Warrior test, North, East, Search, North, East, North, Scroll, West, Archway, done. Azamantes eaten for the highest damage Sling in the game. Lastly Prada ate Nalmrissa for the Wish scroll, before escaping Watcher's Keep for good.


    Had to use PfU for the Master Wraith as Vampiric Wraiths uninterrupted my Time Stop with their magic damage. Then I ate all of the Undead. Yaga-Shura stronghold passed with Invisibility, picked up the Stone Golem page and couple hearts with Time Stop, before escaping without bothering fighting anybody. Nyalee eaten.


    Yaga-Shura was first real test for Prada, with his high hp and DR it would be pretty much impossible for Sorcerer to melee him, because his AC too is -24. Although he's immune to many things, he's not immune to Feeblemind. With Haste and Time Stop I passed the bridge without the army script actually activating and hit Yaga once. He buggered off, then when he game back I hit him with Greater Malison, Alacrity and then 7 times Feeblemind, and he couldn't evade it. Only Liutenant Mage, Fighter and Cleric arrived from his army. First waited their Deva out, then I ate them during a Time Stop. Now it was just Feebleminded Yaga and myself. Although when revealing myself, a Liutenant Thief announced his arrival too. True Seeing, another Time Stop and ate him too. Found 5 long casting Invisible Stalker scrolls, but it's taking forever to melee him. And they are still hacking Yaga as I write this, 5 hours in and Yaga is still at 800 hp. :D


    I maybe need to hasten the process a little with some clone Time Stops.


    My PI Sim clones could still cast 3 9th level spells, one Time Stop with Energy Blades which did 40 dmg. Interestingly it wouldn't attack with BBD. Then disaster, my clone hit him with Staff of Magi after Energy Blades and dispelled Yaga's Feeblemind. I was in trouble, although luckily I had hoarded Feeblemind scrolls. But before hitting with any of those I wanted to give 8 apr Planetar chance to tackle him. Interestingly this episode of unfeebling him semeed to lower his DR, from about 93 to 76, then to 69. Well that's weird. Planetar actually got Yaga to 216 hp, impressive. Soon after I realised I should've used clone Planetars. :s Greater Malison, then 3 Feeblemind scrolls was enough to Feeblemind him again. Took away Staff of Magi so I wouldn't Dispel him again. Now the clones did almost three time more damage with Energy Blades during Time stop. And Yaga was finally done after second clone attack. Hmph, another 9 hour marathon.

    Post edited by histamiini on
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    edited August 2019
    Haha, Yaga Shura should fall in a few days at this rate ?

    Nice run with the Mindflayer form ;) I hope you’ll give the shapeshifting sorcerer the love he deserves, I had a real fun run with mine.

    My FMC managed to pass the first lvl of Durlag’s tower and grab the Goblet. And fled for his life right afterwards. The effects of the goblet are already showing xD

    Next was coronation : I just cast a web carefully calculated to entangle all but 2 nobles, managed to kill these two easily without the dukes even taking a hit with lucky aggro from my skeletons.
    When the other doppelgangers awoke and attacked, I used my all time favourite Web, Greater Malison, followed by Slow, and single target debuffs if needed afterwards.
    Even managed to keep both dukes alive (although Liia was almost dead and kept getting hit, I feel that just one more hit would have taken her).

    Next was Sarevok (ran through the maze with shields up, prot. from fire and electricity and invisible), avoided any fight till the temple, rearranged my spells and rested before entering.

    Lots of potions, 4 skeletons and many buffs later, I challenged Sarevok for the right to claim being a true Lord of Murder and... immediately gulped an invisibility potion and ran back ^^.

    I made sure to trigger all traps in the way back (gulped a potion of freedom beforehand) so they trigger near Semaj’s spawn point, debuffed him a bit and he fell quite easily once ensnared by webs and afflicted by blindness.

    Next was Sarevok’s other henchmen, alas couldn’t manage to separate them from Sarevok, so had to face the three of them together.
    2 Webs, then Malison and Doom on everyone, they failed their saves almost every round, recast 2 webs when the first ended, kept attacking between spells and cast debuffs on them, but they still managed to outlast my webs.
    I had to use the wand of monster summoning twice to make a diversion, alas :(

    Luckily, Sarevok failed once against one of my blindness spells, and Angelo and Tazok were close from one another, and failed BOTH their save against a Hold spell (saved at -9 between Malison, Doom, Chant and Hold). Just enough time for me to kill them both while Sarevok was standing there in a daze after finishing the last summon.

    Started kiting Sarevok and sending whatever debuffs I had in my scroll container, and was surprised when he finally failed a save against Hold. Rushed against him in melee and finished him before the duration of the spell expired.

    Thus fell Sarevok against my solo LoB (non SCS) FMC and his little Imp (in Mustard Jelly form to avoid getting recked in melee, inbetween failed saves against web from Tazok or Sarevok).

    Next stop, Siege of Dragonspear.
    Post edited by monico on
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    edited August 2019
    Hmm, weird thing happened to me when I uploaded my FMC save from BG1 to SoD (has to go this way on iPad), I could not get my familiar back, and trying to cast it again did not work either as I'm already supposed to have one.
    also lost the extra HP brought by my familiar.

    Wouldn't mind in a normal run, but the little Imp and I grew quite close, and we had great laughs around the campfire when we played and he transformed in random people to mock them.
    Plus he really is a great asset on the battlefield.

    Took me a few hours fiddling with character exports, previous saves and such, and the only solution I found was to kill him, export a tome of CON to counterbalance the loss of CON and re-cast the spell once in SoD.

    I don't like that solution, will try a bit more tomorrow, but if anyone has any ideas for why this happened and how I can fix this, your inputs are welcome !

    (Side note, @histamiini , I read your report on your FMC run through SoD, and you said that you faced Big B with something like -20 thaco... How ? When ? What ??)
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