I'm not sure if I did something wrong (or good), but the whole "romance" is weird...
I tried to be nice, kind and charming and got only few hugs during the whole SoA.
Although I suggested I wanted more, she never responded to my attempts.
Not even kiss.
This continued in ToB in the same way.
After the penultimate test in the hidden sphere, I can talk to her and ask her to marry me.
I didn't see that coming.
Her additional dialogue about children suggests that we have had sex... many times.
Damn, it looks like I didn't even notice that I had an active sex life.
@Rieper24 Lord M's original version did require you to initiate many lovetalks (at least as I remembered) but this is not the case with the current version. All but one lovetalks are initiated by her and for that only one you get a instruction which is hard to miss. Only after you have successfully romanced her can you repeatedly initiate dialogues with her (flirts)
I'm not sure if I did something wrong (or good), but the whole "romance" is weird...
I tried to be nice, kind and charming and got only few hugs during the whole SoA.
Although I suggested I wanted more, she never responded to my attempts.
Not even kiss.
This continued in ToB in the same way.
After the penultimate test in the hidden sphere, I can talk to her and ask her to marry me.
I didn't see that coming.
Her additional dialogue about children suggests that we have had sex... many times.
Damn, it looks like I didn't even notice that I had an active sex life.
alot of rpgs have dialogue talking about stuff we don't see. you could just assume you both had sex in between soa and tob. as there is at most a couple weeks between the two.
I'm not sure if I did something wrong (or good), but the whole "romance" is weird...
I tried to be nice, kind and charming and got only few hugs during the whole SoA.
Although I suggested I wanted more, she never responded to my attempts.
Not even kiss.
This continued in ToB in the same way.
After the penultimate test in the hidden sphere, I can talk to her and ask her to marry me.
I didn't see that coming.
Her additional dialogue about children suggests that we have had sex... many times.
Damn, it looks like I didn't even notice that I had an active sex life.
You might have picked a dialogue option that caused her to stop any attempts to continue the romance, chose the wrong options at the camp scene, or didn't trigger the camp scene at all.
How the mod handles the romance mechanically is a bit of a double-edged sword. It's not like the default game romances where there's fairly clear yes/no dialogues. Acting too eager too early, being insensitive toward her, or stopping the various talks with her before she's done with the topic basically locks you out of the romance. The camp scene is the turning point, where you have to
chase after her after she pranks you.
Otherwise you'll be locked into the friendship route.
ToB seems like it's straight up busted for you. The mod adds a ton of dialogue and triggers to her in ToB and you should have had interactions at every inn, after every test, etc. There's probably a mod conflict or bad install at play. I missed out on a number of dialogues in the Pocket Plane that didn't trigger for me in my old 3.9.0 ToB playthrough, and I still haven't gotten any of the SoA class/money/reputation/etc banters that should have triggered in my current 3.9.2 run, though I wonder if that's because I'm using the original game instead of the Enhanced Edition.
And while I'm talking possible bugs there's a minor oversight I noticed. Two pieces of music (MRImNig1 and MRImNig2) will never play in-game as they are not called for in IMMUSIC.bat, and therefore do not get installed. I don't know if MRImNig2 is ever meant to be used, but MRImNig1 is used once in SoA at least.
her romance is very easy to break. when i did the mod the first time and got everything right something seemed to break after she got her soul back. i never got the last romance talk.
The camp scene is the turning point, where you have to
chase after her after she pranks you.
Otherwise you'll be locked into the friendship route.
Not only that. When I looked at the dialogue, it seems
the PC then has to pin her down and kiss her when the "tension" rises. Being hesitant and waiting for her / not wanting to force-kiss her will leave you with the friendship route.
It's not a romance for everyone (regardless of the "godly sibling" scenario.)
if you finished all required lovetalks in Underdark
right after you escape from Underdark and are interrogated by Elhan she will prompt to set camp there, the prank happens next morning . The camp scene will happen only if IMOENROMANCEACTIVE=1
if you finished all required lovetalks in Underdark
right after you escape from Underdark and are interrogated by Elhan she will prompt to set camp there, the prank happens next morning . The camp scene (first part) will happen as long as you are in good terms, so if you didn't even get the first part I guess either you said something wrong before or there's a bug or mod conflict
I have nearly 500 saves, so I checked.
There was just monologue, not dialogue.
Something like "Trees are nice, but we dont have a time. Maybe later."
I guess being a nice, kind and caring wasn't enough.
Or I missed some previous scene.
Damn, this romance is not intuitive at all.
P.S.
I guess that variable IMOENROMANCEACTIVE is status of our relationship and 4 is not good.
What are "good terms" ? 2 ?
(I'm trying to find out if I missed scene or I messed up the conversation.)
i always had it happen after going into the grove area twice. it seems there is a day timer for it to fire. but it needs to happen before bodi as the camping scene is what sets the romance.
I checked the files and found I was wrong, the romance must be going (IMOENROMANCEACTIVE=1) to trigger that camp scene
since you said you tried to be nice and caring I can think of some possible reasons that you get 4:
-did you let her finish the talk about what happened in Spellhold? (should be the last lovetalk before you exit Underdark) there was an option like "That seems wise. Let's not wallow in your suffering anymore." will end the dialogue and the romance
-Insisted you didn't have sex with Phaere because of her (the first time you say it she will think you are joking, if you insist it ends the romance)
-too much jokes about the dreams
TBH I think the mod is quite forgiving, some options I thought would break the romance when I first saw them actually wouldn't
@Edvin that's weird, can you find exactly when did IMOENROMANCEACTIVE turn to 4? before she joins your party? or
after the first talk when you can introduce other party members to her? or a few seconds later when you can tell her about getting 20000gp?
and did you get at least 2 additional dreams before chapter 4?
The camp scene is the turning point, where you have to
chase after her after she pranks you.
Otherwise you'll be locked into the friendship route.
Not only that. When I looked at the dialogue, it seems
the PC then has to pin her down and kiss her when the "tension" rises. Being hesitant and waiting for her / not wanting to force-kiss her will leave you with the friendship route.
It's not a romance for everyone (regardless of the "godly sibling" scenario.)
Your description almost read like it's... against her will or something? I refreshed my memory by looking at the dialogue file, and it reads like this:
She pranks the PC by splashing cold water over them. The PC chases her, catches her and starts tickling her as revenge, to the point of her shedding tears of laughter. After that, you have the following option:
"(Stroke her cheek, drying her tears with your thumb. Then slowly lower your head and touch your lips to hers.)", which leads to:
"(Your lips come together. Though uncertain at first, Imoen responds with tender passion, inviting you in, thirsting, longing. Her breath leadens, its weight pulling at your senses like an inescapable tide.)"
At which point she expresses some doubts, but: "(Though she expresses doubt, her kisses lose none of their luster.)"
You can then:
1) ~It's okay. It's alright. I love you, Imoen. I love you.~
2) ~I can't hold back anymore... I love you... I want you.~
3) ~(Say nothing. Let your tender ministrations do the talking.)~
4) ~(Kiss her mouth once more. Begin to undress her with subtle care.)~
5) ~You're right. You're right... we can't do this. (Move away from her, gently.)~
All of these outcomes (except 5) lead to "positive resolution":
(Imoen shivers in your arms. Her lips travel down your jawline, to your neck) I... I want it. I want *you*.
I would personally rate only 3 or 4 as "force kissing", but still not really "force". So even if the options are there, you under no circumstances HAVE TO really use them.
I didn't say the kiss is unwilling. I said force-kiss, because that is what the PC has to do here, because the other reply option you did not include was where the PC hesitates to see what Imoen will be doing does not lead to her kissing the PC and switches to friendship path - hence the continuation of the romance relies on the PC "surprising" Imoen with this kiss (she wouldn't initiate herself) to make her "realize" that she is falling for the PC.
It's a bit on the edge of coercion, imho. Making it so that the woman "wants it" (against her own knowing) just adds to the cringy male fantasy displayed here.
From the previous conversations, it's kinda apparent that she realizes it, but doesn't want to admit it, which is a bit different. Your argument has some merit though, when you present it this way, and I agree with the "male fantasy" part. But why should always the NPC make the actual move?
I do agree that I do not know the whole romance, though, and maybe this one scene feels different in combination with her reactions in preceding lovetalks.
It probably comes off as being awkward or odd because up until that point the mod is still trying to allow for the twin routes of the "Imoen never had any feelings for you, it's all in your head, you goof" friendship path and "Imoen always had feelings for you, ever since you were children, but she kept it hidden" romance path, which results in this feeling where you're not sure what's "real" and what Imoen is really thinking. It's annoying, but I sort of accept it due to the mod trying to cater to players who have very different ideas of what they want out of the IR mod.
I personally didn't get the feeling that the pivotal kiss scene was forced in any sense, but I can see why it could be interpreted in such a fashion.
But anyway, to go back to Edvin's earlier question, if you want to pursue the romance path, my advice is to be friendly, supportive and affectionate to Imoen, but don't be TOO overt until the pivotal camp scene after leaving the Underdark. Trying to pursue a relationship prior to that always leads to shutdown/friendship paths (either variables 3 or 4. You want it to remain at 1 until the romance is confirmed).
I didn't say the kiss is unwilling. I said force-kiss, because that is what the PC has to do here, because the other reply option you did not include was where the PC hesitates to see what Imoen will be doing does not lead to her kissing the PC and switches to friendship path - hence the continuation of the romance relies on the PC "surprising" Imoen with this kiss (she wouldn't initiate herself) to make her "realize" that she is falling for the PC.
It's a bit on the edge of coercion, imho. Making it so that the woman "wants it" (against her own knowing) just adds to the cringy male fantasy displayed here.
The "male fantasy" part is interesting, because I'm pretty sure that a woman did the re-write of the mod.
@jastey I'm not explicitly disagreeing. That example is typically a male oriented fantasy. I'm just commenting on that its an intersting example considering who wrote the current version.
Comments
I tried to be nice, kind and charming and got only few hugs during the whole SoA.
Although I suggested I wanted more, she never responded to my attempts.
Not even kiss.
This continued in ToB in the same way.
After the penultimate test in the hidden sphere, I can talk to her and ask her to marry me.
I didn't see that coming.
Her additional dialogue about children suggests that we have had sex... many times.
Damn, it looks like I didn't even notice that I had an active sex life.
alot of rpgs have dialogue talking about stuff we don't see. you could just assume you both had sex in between soa and tob. as there is at most a couple weeks between the two.
You might have picked a dialogue option that caused her to stop any attempts to continue the romance, chose the wrong options at the camp scene, or didn't trigger the camp scene at all.
How the mod handles the romance mechanically is a bit of a double-edged sword. It's not like the default game romances where there's fairly clear yes/no dialogues. Acting too eager too early, being insensitive toward her, or stopping the various talks with her before she's done with the topic basically locks you out of the romance. The camp scene is the turning point, where you have to
ToB seems like it's straight up busted for you. The mod adds a ton of dialogue and triggers to her in ToB and you should have had interactions at every inn, after every test, etc. There's probably a mod conflict or bad install at play. I missed out on a number of dialogues in the Pocket Plane that didn't trigger for me in my old 3.9.0 ToB playthrough, and I still haven't gotten any of the SoA class/money/reputation/etc banters that should have triggered in my current 3.9.2 run, though I wonder if that's because I'm using the original game instead of the Enhanced Edition.
And while I'm talking possible bugs there's a minor oversight I noticed. Two pieces of music (MRImNig1 and MRImNig2) will never play in-game as they are not called for in IMMUSIC.bat, and therefore do not get installed. I don't know if MRImNig2 is ever meant to be used, but MRImNig1 is used once in SoA at least.
@Jarvey
I don't recall any pranks or camp scene.
Should it be before or after the acquisition of her soul?
Are there any special requirements?
(Specific sleeping place, specific chapter, before Underdark, in Underdark, after Underdark etc.)
P.S.
I do not want to criticize, but putting key scene on place that is easily missable sounds like a bad design.
So, random camping in wilderness, after Underdark.
Is it important whether this is before or after fight with Bodhi?
edited
I have nearly 500 saves, so I checked.
There was just monologue, not dialogue.
Something like "Trees are nice, but we dont have a time. Maybe later."
I guess being a nice, kind and caring wasn't enough.
Or I missed some previous scene.
Damn, this romance is not intuitive at all.
P.S.
I guess that variable IMOENROMANCEACTIVE is status of our relationship and 4 is not good.
What are "good terms" ? 2 ?
(I'm trying to find out if I missed scene or I messed up the conversation.)
since you said you tried to be nice and caring I can think of some possible reasons that you get 4:
-Insisted you didn't have sex with Phaere because of her (the first time you say it she will think you are joking, if you insist it ends the romance)
-too much jokes about the dreams
TBH I think the mod is quite forgiving, some options I thought would break the romance when I first saw them actually wouldn't
That's quite interesting.
I just checked about 30 different saved games.
My Imoen started with IMOENROMANCEACTIVE=4
Then she retained this state for the rest of the game.
Is 4 the correct starting point, or have I had a problem right from the start?
and did you get at least 2 additional dreams before chapter 4?
I'm pretty sure that I had all dreams (I think there were four of them).
And she was IMOENROMANCEACTIVE=4 even before she joined my party.
I don't know what went wrong then, all triggers I can find that set it to 4 should happen after she joins
Your description almost read like it's... against her will or something? I refreshed my memory by looking at the dialogue file, and it reads like this:
"(Stroke her cheek, drying her tears with your thumb. Then slowly lower your head and touch your lips to hers.)", which leads to:
"(Your lips come together. Though uncertain at first, Imoen responds with tender passion, inviting you in, thirsting, longing. Her breath leadens, its weight pulling at your senses like an inescapable tide.)"
At which point she expresses some doubts, but: "(Though she expresses doubt, her kisses lose none of their luster.)"
You can then:
1) ~It's okay. It's alright. I love you, Imoen. I love you.~
2) ~I can't hold back anymore... I love you... I want you.~
3) ~(Say nothing. Let your tender ministrations do the talking.)~
4) ~(Kiss her mouth once more. Begin to undress her with subtle care.)~
5) ~You're right. You're right... we can't do this. (Move away from her, gently.)~
All of these outcomes (except 5) lead to "positive resolution":
(Imoen shivers in your arms. Her lips travel down your jawline, to your neck) I... I want it. I want *you*.
I would personally rate only 3 or 4 as "force kissing", but still not really "force". So even if the options are there, you under no circumstances HAVE TO really use them.
It's a bit on the edge of coercion, imho. Making it so that the woman "wants it" (against her own knowing) just adds to the cringy male fantasy displayed here.
Hmm, I think I found a specific place where I got number 4.
It was at a time when I got number 2 on a romance with Viconia (in chapter 2).
Is possible that the multiple romance component has not been installed correctly or is not working in the current version?
P.S.
Anyway, I'll make a few notes for my next gameplay.
After I free Imoen from Spellhold, her romance should start on 1, right?
I'm not happy about how it is executed.
I personally didn't get the feeling that the pivotal kiss scene was forced in any sense, but I can see why it could be interpreted in such a fashion.
But anyway, to go back to Edvin's earlier question, if you want to pursue the romance path, my advice is to be friendly, supportive and affectionate to Imoen, but don't be TOO overt until the pivotal camp scene after leaving the Underdark. Trying to pursue a relationship prior to that always leads to shutdown/friendship paths (either variables 3 or 4. You want it to remain at 1 until the romance is confirmed).
The "male fantasy" part is interesting, because I'm pretty sure that a woman did the re-write of the mod.
OK I agree it's sexist.