Ah it needs both our fixes, but your right it should use that variable in torture talk.
Hmm also realized i have to take care of summoning imoen if your solo.
thanks for the pregnancy talk fix.
edit: @wuke I have made a partial fix so in campfire scene, if you do not do the 'right romance' choice, and end the scene early, you have control over all characters (sleep removed).
previous fix to Aerie's "normal" reaction is missing, variable checks in .d file are right but there's still a Global("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",3) in aerie.baf
I also have a small request/advice: can we get rid of the quality time option in Suldanessellar? Technically AR2800 has the type "city" so we can get city quality time PIDs. Considering who they are facing and especially after the dialogue when entering the city I find those talks quite immersion breaking.
Hmm no i think thats a problematic talk to change.
The original intention was that Aerie would have a branch reaction to you and Imoen romanced, if you stopped the romance with Aerie early then she is fine, but if you did it late then Aerie is pissed at it.
If the checks are completely removed, then Aerie could respond she likes you and Im together even if your still pursuing a romance with Aerie and it hasn't concluded, which would be strange.
edit: ive included a check to prevent city quality times in suldanessalar.
I guess your right but at least if aerieromanceactive=0 the first one should be allowed? My female charnames can never get it and I don't think any content in the first one requires charname being male, or indicates Aerie romance ever happened.
edit: also there are race restrictions to Aerie romance so not all male charnames can get it pass 0.
Well it's been about fifteen years since playing Lord M's original, but I've finally gotten through the reimagined version (a few times successively to see the differences) and I gotta say, it may be one of the best IE mods I've ever played. Mainly because the wealth of new content fits with the original characterisations and tone pretty faithfully, perhaps more than some of the EE content, even if Imoen didn't have a lot to build off of in the first place and her rape still comes off suitably uncomfortable.
I'm still not sure about putting the actions in ( )'s and I probably never will be, but I got used to it again soon enough and further ran another playthrough to see its Imoen & Aerie romance, which I found it pretty heartbreaking, especially when it came down to that final decision... although it left me wondering why Imoen didn't think to just change her gender instead of risking Aerie's mind?
With that in mind, does anyone know if the IRTInSyncChildren variable actually changes anything?
If anything, that was another place I felt the mod was lacking, as among its greatly appreciated long list of endings, there really wasn't anything for those charnames who were already 'getting too old for this shit' and just wanted to settle down. Instead, mortal charname's spend the rest of their lives going along with Imoen's inability to settle down and never get an escape from the life of an adventurer that they may never have wanted in the first place (especially considering these ones gave up their divinity at the very least).
I know the mod's finalised beyond bugfixes, but if there were two ways I still think it could improve, it would be adding a second path for Imoen / Aerie where Imoen switches genders to spare Aerie's brain; and maybe adding one/two new Madly In Love endings (with the standard Marriage & Aerie variables) where they either settle down after a while (perhaps with some pregnancy conflict like Viconia's) and/or they come and go from each other's lives knowing that their love can whether the distance like Jaheira's and the Good divine Imoen Romance endings do.
Regardless, thanks to Israel, T.C. Dale, TheAcefes, Sarevok8 and Lord Mirrabbo for one of the Infinity Engine's best and most controversial mods
Hmm changing one's sexuality is already pretty huge but changing one's gender is just next level crazy and dangerous if done with Wish. I believe the idea is to show that Aerie can come up with recklessly selfless ideas for people she cares and let them start a contest of sacrifice is not that necessary. Personally I think if we need a mutual sacrifice here then giving up the relationship, like if charname says it's a bad idea, is enough.
Edit: also, Imoen is more of a character that only gets herself into trouble if it's inevitable. in this case not using Wish at all seems to be a much safer choice, if she doesn't want it on Aerie no way she'll do it to herself.
In a D&D world where even alignment can be changed via curses, I see no reason why sexuality/gender couldn't be altered via magic as well. If I recall correctly, Imoen's main objection is that using Wish to bend reality is often VERY risky, with unforeseen consequences that she wasn't willing to risk for Aerie.
My main complaint with that plot point is that there's no way for Charname to make the argument about if it's ETHICAL to ask such a change of someone. Even if Aerie is willing to make such a sacrifice (bless her ), the resulting new person isn't the original Aerie that Imoen fell in love with anymore. You would always know that you used magic to change her into something more to your liking. If you compare it to the more common trope in fantasy about using a Wish spell to make somebody fall in love with you, how is this situation really any different?
In a D&D world where even alignment can be changed via curses, I see no reason why sexuality/gender couldn't be altered via magic as well. If I recall correctly, Imoen's main objection is that using Wish to bend reality is often VERY risky, with unforeseen consequences that she wasn't willing to risk for Aerie.
My main complaint with that plot point is that there's no way for Charname to make the argument about if it's ETHICAL to ask such a change of someone. Even if Aerie is willing to make such a sacrifice (bless her ), the resulting new person isn't the original Aerie that Imoen fell in love with anymore. You would always know that you used magic to change her into something more to your liking. If you compare it to the more common trope in fantasy about using a Wish spell to make somebody fall in love with you, how is this situation really any different?
Yep I think if charname tells her to figure it out herself the transition shouldn't happen (now they will do it unless charname clearly objects)
Hmm changing one's sexuality is already pretty huge but changing one's gender is just next level crazy and dangerous if done with Wish.
Do remember though, that they may still have the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity kicking around in one of their packs or track it down if it was lost along the way.
Hmm changing one's sexuality is already pretty huge but changing one's gender is just next level crazy and dangerous if done with Wish.
Do remember though, that they may still have the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity kicking around in one of their packs or track it down if it was lost along the way.
Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr
There're already too many comedic fanfics featuring it... Besides you really think wearing a cursed girdle for a lifetime better than Wish? I don't think it's a serious solution.
There're already too many comedic fanfics featuring it... Besides you really think wearing a cursed girdle for a lifetime better than Wish? I don't think it's a serious solution.
Well it's the least dangerous solution (compared to using Wish on either of them) and they could always use magic to underplay its presence on Imoen's body.
Regardless, that would only apply in a scenario where the two powerful wizards (and friends like Elminster) were unable to discover how to replicate the magics of the cursed item to maintain a permanent girdle-free transformation.
iep banter is just one specific component. just don't install the imoen retrospective dialogue. and that one has been the case since the ascension beta.
i don't know how wop and balthazar can be redeemed would conflict. i remember atlest in the beta version of ascension her dialogue after killing him would still fire when you redeem him/ deal with the wop content.
My main complaint with that plot point is that there's no way for Charname to make the argument about if it's ETHICAL to ask such a change of someone. Even if Aerie is willing to make such a sacrifice (bless her ), the resulting new person isn't the original Aerie that Imoen fell in love with anymore. You would always know that you used magic to change her into something more to your liking. If you compare it to the more common trope in fantasy about using a Wish spell to make somebody fall in love with you, how is this situation really any different?
Completely agree with this. The ethics of using what is essentially the classic love potion aren't explored at all, and even if they were it wouldn't really fit the lighthearted tone of that side plot. I would much prefer if the "good" ending to the plot were that faced with this decision either or both came to realise that what matters is having each other, especially considering the events around them in ToB.
There's an oddity I noticed during my 3.9.2 SoA run.
During this run I decided to plow through Watcher's Keep before I went to Suldanessellar. The mod gives Imoen this dialogue if she's in the party and the party kills 3 or more dragons:
SAY ~Y'know, after the third or fourth dragon, this whole 'dragon-slaying' thing is a lot less impressive.~
The party (with Imoen) had bumped off Firkraag and the Shadow Dragon prior to Watcher's Keep where they slayed the two dragons within (which would be a total of 4 dragons), but this dialogue didn't trigger. But after entering Suldanessellar and slaying the dragon there, I got the dialogue.
It's hardly much of an issue, but I still found it interesting to note. I wonder if Watcher's Keep is still technically considered part of Throne of Bhaal even within Shadows of Amn, and therefore any SoA-specific events, dialogue, etc will not trigger when visited during SoA.
that dialogue's trigger is written in the area script where you kill the black dragon, so you won't get it elsewhere. I remember I need to take her to kill both Firkraag and shadow dragon to get this, maybe when it's written the "three or four dragons" specifically means those ones (plus Adalon)
I want to mention that in RomanceContent.d there's a variable "MRResolutionTeasedAlready" set to prevent loops, it doesn't work, seems it only changes after the dialogue ends, so while the dialogue is going any check on that will get 0. My problem is that some other talks, like Sarevok's alignment change, also works this way, I can set his "SarevokChange" to 1 (2 is needed to change his alignment) before the change talk, increase that variable by 1 during the talk, and successfully change him, and after checking the triggers in NearInfinity I don't think the code of this mod did anything wrong. I haven't tried Ascension but I guess persuading Balthazar also works this way. I don't think this is an issue but am quite curious why there's a difference.
Wow interesting questions, big trip down memory lane for me.
For the dragon question @Jarvey . Yes there is complex code around each 'dragon' encounter in vanilla SOA. This is because i had to code a very unique situation where i had to make sure Imoen was actually involved in the fight with a dragon, not just 'detect 4 dragons are dead trigger dialogue' since it wouldn't make sense if she wasnt there for some of them. This necessitated a big headache in terms of coding against specific dragons. I never took watcher keep dragons into account since honestly it skipped my mind.
@wuke What you experienced is one of the bigger mysteries of the game engine, and caused alot of problems for me. So basically for Globals they are ultimately set at the end of a script cycle (when a script is fully evaluated), not explicitly when you call SetGlobal, this seems to imply that 'setglobal' is queued until the end of a script cycle where all setglobals are actually executed.
This would explain the behaviour you experienced (incidentally i removed that about 2 weeks ago as i discovered that too), there is one problem that revolves around this and i managed to fix, but never understood how the fix makes sense.
For some dialogue that requires Player1, i had to call ActionOverride(Player1,SetDialog("Player1")) to make sure Player1 .dlg file is attached to player1 (another mystery, this was necessary because this dialogue file can become unattached from Player1, and i never knew why), however i experienced a bug when setting this in dialogue that it would not set fast enough when extern player1, i had to set it much earlier in a dialogue tree where once it hit extern player1, it would luckily be set.
I never understood why setting it earlier fixed it, my best guess is that scripts are 'trying' to run in-between dialogue choices. but this sounds like a bad guess to me.
I downloaded it and damn, you fixed so many different bugs. Thanks!
Are you vanatos by chance?
For anyone wishing to read the changelog
This version is: 3.9.6
Fix TOB imoen summon talk.
Fix alignment banter to reflect gender.
Fix baervar to baervan spelling.
Fix TOB torture talk check.
Fix pregnancy talk to check player is male.
Fix camp scene for other party members to wake up.
Prevent quality times in suldanessalar.
Fix Aerie Romance Banter can occur if not romanced Aerie.
Fix bodhi confrontation to trigger even if cant see Imoen.
Remove redundant variable MRResolutionTeasedAlready.
streamline jaheira long Im relationship talks occurring after each other.
Fix bug for npc reactions to gaurantee they can occur.
Fix valygar reaction to romance if you are a mage.
Fix Mage stronghold golem talk with imoen.
Slightly improve bracelet cutscene runaway text.
Bracelet woman dissapears after encounter finished.
Fix gong quest second reaction occur in correct place.
Fix last money banter to fire properly.
Fix gaxx ring to check equipped on main player.
Fix hell selfish talk for male characters taken.
Thank you very much for your work!!! And now we really hope you can add cross-language, as the Russian translation that we have been doing for many years is ready and it remains to add it)
I'd suggest getting in contact with the moderation team, because officially multi-accounts are forbidden by forum rules and people got banned because of it.
hmm isn't that check of tob torture talk wrong? in 3.9.6 it's
IF ~Global("IRTJustJoined","GLOBAL",3)~ THEN ~The time in Suldanessalar...
IF ~!Global("IRTJustJoined","GLOBAL",3)~ THEN ~The time I spent by myself...
should be the other way around?
Comments
Hmm also realized i have to take care of summoning imoen if your solo.
thanks for the pregnancy talk fix.
edit: @wuke I have made a partial fix so in campfire scene, if you do not do the 'right romance' choice, and end the scene early, you have control over all characters (sleep removed).
I also have a small request/advice: can we get rid of the quality time option in Suldanessellar? Technically AR2800 has the type "city" so we can get city quality time PIDs. Considering who they are facing and especially after the dialogue when entering the city I find those talks quite immersion breaking.
The original intention was that Aerie would have a branch reaction to you and Imoen romanced, if you stopped the romance with Aerie early then she is fine, but if you did it late then Aerie is pissed at it.
If the checks are completely removed, then Aerie could respond she likes you and Im together even if your still pursuing a romance with Aerie and it hasn't concluded, which would be strange.
edit: ive included a check to prevent city quality times in suldanessalar.
edit: also there are race restrictions to Aerie romance so not all male charnames can get it pass 0.
I'm still not sure about putting the actions in ( )'s and I probably never will be, but I got used to it again soon enough and further ran another playthrough to see its Imoen & Aerie romance, which I found it pretty heartbreaking, especially when it came down to that final decision... although it left me wondering why Imoen didn't think to just change her gender instead of risking Aerie's mind?
With that in mind, does anyone know if the IRTInSyncChildren variable actually changes anything?
If anything, that was another place I felt the mod was lacking, as among its greatly appreciated long list of endings, there really wasn't anything for those charnames who were already 'getting too old for this shit' and just wanted to settle down. Instead, mortal charname's spend the rest of their lives going along with Imoen's inability to settle down and never get an escape from the life of an adventurer that they may never have wanted in the first place (especially considering these ones gave up their divinity at the very least).
I know the mod's finalised beyond bugfixes, but if there were two ways I still think it could improve, it would be adding a second path for Imoen / Aerie where Imoen switches genders to spare Aerie's brain; and maybe adding one/two new Madly In Love endings (with the standard Marriage & Aerie variables) where they either settle down after a while (perhaps with some pregnancy conflict like Viconia's) and/or they come and go from each other's lives knowing that their love can whether the distance like Jaheira's and the Good divine Imoen Romance endings do.
Regardless, thanks to Israel, T.C. Dale, TheAcefes, Sarevok8 and Lord Mirrabbo for one of the Infinity Engine's best and most controversial mods
Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr
Edit: also, Imoen is more of a character that only gets herself into trouble if it's inevitable. in this case not using Wish at all seems to be a much safer choice, if she doesn't want it on Aerie no way she'll do it to herself.
My main complaint with that plot point is that there's no way for Charname to make the argument about if it's ETHICAL to ask such a change of someone. Even if Aerie is willing to make such a sacrifice (bless her
Yep I think if charname tells her to figure it out herself the transition shouldn't happen (now they will do it unless charname clearly objects)
Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr
There're already too many comedic fanfics featuring it... Besides you really think wearing a cursed girdle for a lifetime better than Wish? I don't think it's a serious solution.
Regardless, that would only apply in a scenario where the two powerful wizards (and friends like Elminster) were unable to discover how to replicate the magics of the cursed item to maintain a permanent girdle-free transformation.
Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr
Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr
- AScension
balthazar can be redeemed
Improved sarevok player interactions
Improved imoen player interactions
+ Wheels of prophecy
+ IEP extended banters
i don't know how wop and balthazar can be redeemed would conflict. i remember atlest in the beta version of ascension her dialogue after killing him would still fire when you redeem him/ deal with the wop content.
Completely agree with this. The ethics of using what is essentially the classic love potion aren't explored at all, and even if they were it wouldn't really fit the lighthearted tone of that side plot. I would much prefer if the "good" ending to the plot were that faced with this decision either or both came to realise that what matters is having each other, especially considering the events around them in ToB.
During this run I decided to plow through Watcher's Keep before I went to Suldanessellar. The mod gives Imoen this dialogue if she's in the party and the party kills 3 or more dragons:
The party (with Imoen) had bumped off Firkraag and the Shadow Dragon prior to Watcher's Keep where they slayed the two dragons within (which would be a total of 4 dragons), but this dialogue didn't trigger. But after entering Suldanessellar and slaying the dragon there, I got the dialogue.
It's hardly much of an issue, but I still found it interesting to note. I wonder if Watcher's Keep is still technically considered part of Throne of Bhaal even within Shadows of Amn, and therefore any SoA-specific events, dialogue, etc will not trigger when visited during SoA.
I want to mention that in RomanceContent.d there's a variable "MRResolutionTeasedAlready" set to prevent loops, it doesn't work, seems it only changes after the dialogue ends, so while the dialogue is going any check on that will get 0. My problem is that some other talks, like Sarevok's alignment change, also works this way, I can set his "SarevokChange" to 1 (2 is needed to change his alignment) before the change talk, increase that variable by 1 during the talk, and successfully change him, and after checking the triggers in NearInfinity I don't think the code of this mod did anything wrong. I haven't tried Ascension but I guess persuading Balthazar also works this way. I don't think this is an issue but am quite curious why there's a difference.
For the dragon question @Jarvey . Yes there is complex code around each 'dragon' encounter in vanilla SOA. This is because i had to code a very unique situation where i had to make sure Imoen was actually involved in the fight with a dragon, not just 'detect 4 dragons are dead trigger dialogue' since it wouldn't make sense if she wasnt there for some of them. This necessitated a big headache in terms of coding against specific dragons. I never took watcher keep dragons into account since honestly it skipped my mind.
@wuke What you experienced is one of the bigger mysteries of the game engine, and caused alot of problems for me. So basically for Globals they are ultimately set at the end of a script cycle (when a script is fully evaluated), not explicitly when you call SetGlobal, this seems to imply that 'setglobal' is queued until the end of a script cycle where all setglobals are actually executed.
This would explain the behaviour you experienced (incidentally i removed that about 2 weeks ago as i discovered that too), there is one problem that revolves around this and i managed to fix, but never understood how the fix makes sense.
For some dialogue that requires Player1, i had to call ActionOverride(Player1,SetDialog("Player1")) to make sure Player1 .dlg file is attached to player1 (another mystery, this was necessary because this dialogue file can become unattached from Player1, and i never knew why), however i experienced a bug when setting this in dialogue that it would not set fast enough when extern player1, i had to set it much earlier in a dialogue tree where once it hit extern player1, it would luckily be set.
I never understood why setting it earlier fixed it, my best guess is that scripts are 'trying' to run in-between dialogue choices. but this sounds like a bad guess to me.
http://www.blindmonkey.org/imoen/files/Imoen Romance.zip
contains fixes, finished my playthrough.
Because there were many fixes, i did not integrate cross-language yet. I will focus on that solely now i hope for next version.
Are you vanatos by chance?
For anyone wishing to read the changelog
Fix TOB imoen summon talk.
Fix alignment banter to reflect gender.
Fix baervar to baervan spelling.
Fix TOB torture talk check.
Fix pregnancy talk to check player is male.
Fix camp scene for other party members to wake up.
Prevent quality times in suldanessalar.
Fix Aerie Romance Banter can occur if not romanced Aerie.
Fix bodhi confrontation to trigger even if cant see Imoen.
Remove redundant variable MRResolutionTeasedAlready.
streamline jaheira long Im relationship talks occurring after each other.
Fix bug for npc reactions to gaurantee they can occur.
Fix valygar reaction to romance if you are a mage.
Fix Mage stronghold golem talk with imoen.
Slightly improve bracelet cutscene runaway text.
Bracelet woman dissapears after encounter finished.
Fix gong quest second reaction occur in correct place.
Fix last money banter to fire properly.
Fix gaxx ring to check equipped on main player.
Fix hell selfish talk for male characters taken.
I'd suggest getting in contact with the moderation team, because officially multi-accounts are forbidden by forum rules and people got banned because of it.
IF ~Global("IRTJustJoined","GLOBAL",3)~ THEN ~The time in Suldanessalar...
IF ~!Global("IRTJustJoined","GLOBAL",3)~ THEN ~The time I spent by myself...
should be the other way around?
In TOB\GorionWraith\GorionWraith.d, lines 75, 100 and 144 have "I finally find you". They should be "I finally found you".