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I think BG3 (or BG5e as I think of it) will be even better then BG1/2ToB

GyorGyor Member Posts: 31
If you think of BG 3 as BG 5e then it's easier to mover on from old expectations for BG 3. Even on the days of the Black Hound it wasn't a continuation of BG 1 &2 & ToB plot, which was resolved.

5th edition D&D rules are a 100x better then 2nd edition D&D rules. In 5e no class is race restricted, the multiclassing rules work way better and smoother and functional then in 2e. You have some really cool feats in 5e like Ritual Caster and Warcaster. Low level wizards aren't boring and nearly useless in 5e like they are in 2e, fighters are more fun at all levels then 2e. You have new classes in 5e like Sorcerer and Warlock with fun mechanics and flavour.

Subclasses are baked right into classes in 5e.

You have subraces right in the PHB in 5e.

You have advantage and disadvantage in 5e.

You have Dragonborn in 5e.

You have backgrounds in 5e.

Baldur's Gate itself is far more interesting in the current era then in 2e's times, with new districts like Twin Songs and Little Calimshan.

Its more likely to be turn based as you can't do RtwP with proper 5e rules and TB is better then RtwP.

There is an absolutely huge team building this game, over 300 people.

BG3 will be the first FR video game to have a Nautiloud since that Spelljammer: Realmspace.

Much better graphics.

OlvynChuruJuliusBorisovDJKajuru
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Comments

  • GyorGyor Member Posts: 31
    DinoDin wrote: »
    I gotta say, imo, the way multi and dual classing worked in the IE games is hugely unheralded. I think it's one big factor why the games had rich replay value. I've never liked the switch that started in 3e where you could essentially multiclass into anything so long as you had the stat requirement. There's something to be said for giving players too many options in video games.

    Edit to add: Obviously excluding IWD2 here.

    I couldn't disagree more, it's one of the many reasons I liked NWN2 better then BG 1 and 2.

    WarChiefZekeKamigoroshihelmo1977
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 977
    DinoDin wrote: »
    I gotta say, imo, the way multi and dual classing worked in the IE games is hugely unheralded. I think it's one big factor why the games had rich replay value. I've never liked the switch that started in 3e where you could essentially multiclass into anything so long as you had the stat requirement. There's something to be said for giving players too many options in video games.

    I sorta get where you're coming from. I always felt that one of the big problems that cropped up at the end of 3.5's lifespan was the unholy amounts of bloat, and a big part of that came from the seemingly endless parade of prestige classes being given to us. Yes, you could have a Pirate Slaver prestige class, for example, but to me it felt like you could have the same effect by just playing a Fighter/Rogue (or heck, play an evil-aligned Swashbuckler, a previously existing prestige class) and picking relevant feats to match.

    DJKajuruspacejaws
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 694
    Gyor wrote: »
    DinoDin wrote: »
    I gotta say, imo, the way multi and dual classing worked in the IE games is hugely unheralded. I think it's one big factor why the games had rich replay value. I've never liked the switch that started in 3e where you could essentially multiclass into anything so long as you had the stat requirement. There's something to be said for giving players too many options in video games.

    Edit to add: Obviously excluding IWD2 here.

    I couldn't disagree more, it's one of the many reasons I liked NWN2 better then BG 1 and 2.

    I get that most players will always prefer more options over less. But sometimes I think less is better. For me, the way the IE games implemented 2E rules felt more immersive. The fact that you had to commit to a specific class felt like your PC was committing to a specific career.

    And even outside of roleplay elements, the fact that you could be faced with endless options upon level up, introduced a great deal of imbalance into the games. My understanding it was pretty much considered standard power gaming to add one fighter level in 3e video games, for one example. Just to get all those weapon proficiencies.

    There's a reason why there's been an endless debate over multi classing versus dual or why there are complex and interesting dual classing guides to the 2e IE games. I still find myself going back and trying out these interesting builds, after dozens of playthroughs. Not so much with 3e DnD games or even PoE Deadfire.

    ThacoBellsarevok57spacejaws
  • hybridialhybridial Member Posts: 177
    I actually mainly agree with the point that 5e rules will make for a more enjoyable experience, even if it sometimes simplifies things a little too much. And I probably don't need to worry too much about the gameplay mechanics because Larian will very much be tied to using that system.

    I'm still unconvinced the storytelling and tone will be any good, just because those things were terrible in the Original Sin games, particularly in 2. Playing Deadfire now, I know the main questline is kinda weak but at least when immersed in it it feels like I'm really adventuring in this well defined archipeligo, whereas Original Sin 2 just feels like playing a bad rail-roady campaign with a schizophrenic GM.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,043
    I'm curious to try out 5E. Never played it since I don't play PnP. To me, 3.5 is the "best" mechanic I've tried when it comes to progression. The only downside as I see it is that too few classes are locked out due to limited stat requirements. But more choice is seldom "bad", though some are needed to make the choices feel meaningful.

    Pathfinder Kingmaker is an excellent game when it comes to character progression, a true delight for a powergamer like myself who don't play RPGs to roleplay, I tend to play to maximize (even if I sometimes delude myself into thinking I can manage an actual roleplaying playthrough, which I never do). I too think there were too many prestige classes in the end, but I enjoyed some of them in the Kaedrin's pack for NVN2. I thoroughly like the concept of prestige classes and would like to have more of them and less sub-classes/Kits/archetypes. It's great to have something to strive for by mixing two classes and then later on let them merge into a wonderful prestige class, unlocking the combined power of them both.

    Yeah, a bit off track perhaps, but the point is: I'm very eager to try out 5E and hope the class mechanics are a true delight. It sounds like it, from the little I've read so far!

    Lemernis
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,589
    @Skatan 5e is great fun. Its kinda like 2e and 3.5e had a baby and it got most of the best traits of both.

    I just wish we would get something that brought back the amazing multiclass system of BG. Nothing has ever been as good. PoE2 has come the closest.

    SkatanCalmar
  • GyorGyor Member Posts: 31
    scriver wrote: »
    Gyor wrote: »
    You have Dragonborn in 5e.

    You seem to have put a huge con in your list of pros

    Nope, very much a pro, ever since reading the Brimstone Angels Saga by Erin M Evans, I love the depth of Dragonborn and Dragonborn history and culture.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 834
    Sidonius wrote: »
    I understand where the original post is coming from, but I'm afraid I strongly disagree with practically all its points. I'm not saying they're wrong--just that I look for something else in DnD.

    In my view, player choice is greatly over-valued. If you gave most players absolute freedom, they'd simply stomp around as level 20 dual battleaxe-wielding Viking gods, cause some mayhem, and then put the game down after an hour or so.

    DnD's 1st and 2nd editions were very mature systems that rewarded serious roleplaying. They were developed when the most famous fantasy stories were still literary, and they prioritized lore, setting, and narrative. One couldn't be a dwarven wizard because the anti-magical nature of dwarven biology and culture was important.

    As @DinoDin pointed out, the first two editions required commitment on the part of the player. One couldn't get bored, change class halfway through, and ruin the balance for everyone else. Everybody had to function as part of a whole, or the party fell apart. And rewards from character progression were long-term: mages, while essentially useless early on, were granted godlike power down the road; other classes, while more proficient starting out, had to content themselves with a more even leveling arc. Everything was a tradeoff, and one had to strive to uncover the game's most tantalizing secrets.

    Now? Want to be a fire-breathing dragonman? Fine. Half-fiends wandering around as a common race? Sure. My current game of 5th edition is just a motley assortment of novelty characters, none complementary or supportive of the others, none at all home in their setting, all jostling for the spotlight of who can be the most outrageous, and getting by on brute force alone.

    Don't get me wrong: it's fun. But it's shallow, instant gratification. I love that in Baldur's Gate, I have to work, and wait, to be a world-conquering titan, both mechanically and narratively. But that's a bygone era. And it's why I predict Baldur's Gate III will have trouble recapturing the spirit of the original.
    Very well put. I couldn't agree more. What has been lost going to 5e, and also in many RPGs not of the D&D/IE games pedigree but which tried to emulate D&D, is that D&D was not just an RPG; it was a PARTY-based RPG. I blame (massively) multiplayer online for this very sad outcome. Playing a party-based game seated around a table in person is fundamentally different from playing such a game online. So the very idea of trying replicate the TT MP experience in a video game is fundamentally flawed, imo. But the lesson WotC seems to have learned is that not only is MP online the way to go with video games but also that the systems and mechanics of online MP games need to be re-imported back into TT RPGs (i.e. 5e).

    Sidoniussarevok57
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,823
    I'm curious about the game as I have never played 5e but I still think there is not enough information to think it will be better or worst than BG, NWN, etc.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,601
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    mlnevese
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,589
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    Kamigoroshi
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,601
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?
    As should Elminster, Drizzt & Co. and any other cameo character. Still didn't stop Larian to put Volo's voice lines into their latest teaser.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,823
    edited February 1
    Elminster is Immortal as long as he's a Chosen of Mystra,,,

    Post edited by mlnevese on
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,601
    Any Chosen shouldn't be able to survive the death of their battery deity. And given that Mystra has developed a fetish for keeling over, good ol' El should be like deader than undead three times over at this point.

    Vote Shar as the new Goddess of Magic #2020Elections! Now completely Elminster-free #DeathToCameos!

    mlnevesedeltagoBallpointMan
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,823
    I vote Cyric for God of Magic... never liked the guy. :)

    elminster
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,009
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 420
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,133
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,589
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

    UGGGGGHHHHH

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,323
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

    UGGGGGHHHHH

    oh oh… maybe the game will allow you to cast Imprison on him again when you meet him.

    SkatanStummvonBordwehr
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 977
    edited February 5
    deltago wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

    UGGGGGHHHHH

    oh oh… maybe the game will allow you to cast Imprison on him again when you meet him.

    Psh, that's so unimaginative! Here's how you should do it:

    "Flesh to Stone!"
    "Transmute Rock to Mud!"
    "Destroy Water!"
    "Gust of Wind!"
    "Disintegrate!"
    And THEN you cast Imprisonment on what little remains. ;)

    mlnevesedeltagoSkatan
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,589
    deltago wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

    UGGGGGHHHHH

    oh oh… maybe the game will allow you to cast Imprison on him again when you meet him.

    Can I send him to the elemental plane of angry bees?

    mlnevese
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,323
    Zaxares wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

    UGGGGGHHHHH

    oh oh… maybe the game will allow you to cast Imprison on him again when you meet him.

    Psh, that's so unimaginative! Here's how you should do it:

    "Flesh to Stone!"
    "Transmute Rock to Mud!"
    "Destroy Water!"
    "Gust of Wind!"
    "Disintegrate!"
    And THEN you cast Imprisonment on what little remains. ;)

    Constitution save vs Wisdom save. The good news is he is only level 1 in 5e. The bad news is that he is only level 1 in 5e, making him prime candidate to be recruited into your party.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 977
    deltago wrote: »
    The good news is he is only level 1 in 5e. The bad news is that he is only level 1 in 5e, making him prime candidate to be recruited into your party.

    Jokes aside, it might actually be entertaining to bring Volo along as your party bard, just to see how ridiculous his ballad about your adventures gets after it's all said and done.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,823
    deltago wrote: »
    Zaxares wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

    UGGGGGHHHHH

    oh oh… maybe the game will allow you to cast Imprison on him again when you meet him.

    Psh, that's so unimaginative! Here's how you should do it:

    "Flesh to Stone!"
    "Transmute Rock to Mud!"
    "Destroy Water!"
    "Gust of Wind!"
    "Disintegrate!"
    And THEN you cast Imprisonment on what little remains. ;)

    Constitution save vs Wisdom save. The good news is he is only level 1 in 5e. The bad news is that he is only level 1 in 5e, making him prime candidate to be recruited into your party.

    There is no way Volo is just level 1 with everything he has seem and done... not a high level but certainly not a level 1... someone at Wizards must really hate him :)

    ThacoBell
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,009
    edited February 6
    deltago wrote: »
    Zaxares wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    What we do know for sure is that the game has bloody Volo in it. *sniff* *sniff* Dang, my cameo allergy is acting up again... *blows nose*

    Shouldn't he be dead by this point?

    rumor has it that he was imprisoned for like a 100 years or so, and now he is free again

    UGGGGGHHHHH

    oh oh… maybe the game will allow you to cast Imprison on him again when you meet him.

    Psh, that's so unimaginative! Here's how you should do it:

    "Flesh to Stone!"
    "Transmute Rock to Mud!"
    "Destroy Water!"
    "Gust of Wind!"
    "Disintegrate!"
    And THEN you cast Imprisonment on what little remains. ;)

    Constitution save vs Wisdom save. The good news is he is only level 1 in 5e. The bad news is that he is only level 1 in 5e, making him prime candidate to be recruited into your party.

    Unrelated but for being a level 1 character he's got some serious skills.

    Animal Handling +4, Arcana +4, Deception +5, History +4, Insight +2, Investigation +4, Perception +2, Performance +7, Persuasion +7, Sleight of Hand +3, Survival +2.

    This is pretty impressive given his level and base stats

    STR 9 (-1)
    DEX 12 (+1)
    CON 10 (+0)
    INT 15 (+2)
    WIS 11 (+0)
    CHA 16 (+3)

    Edit: Looks like he's got 7d8 hit dice so he's got some mysteries about him

    Post edited by elminster on
    ThacoBellmlnevese
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