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A Message to Larian Studios: They Should ALTER The Work on Baldur's Gate 3

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  • LottiLotti Member Posts: 66
    Arcalian wrote: »
    But one thing you cannot honestly call it is Baldur's gate 3.

    Evidently you can, and they did. It's their name.

    The fact that you grew up in the place doesn't make you an owner. It just gives you memories.

    And just like the neighbourhood where you grew up will be uprooted at some point in time, so your Balder's Gate has moved on. A whole new generation lives there that doesn't care too much about the talk of the senile old guys.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    welp i hope you guys look forward to 20 years from now when future YouTubers consider bg 3 the low point. just like we get with fallout when they talk about 3 and 4.
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359
    edited March 2020
    Lotti wrote: »
    Arcalian wrote: »
    But one thing you cannot honestly call it is Baldur's gate 3.

    Evidently you can, and they did. It's their name.

    The fact that you grew up in the place doesn't make you an owner. It just gives you memories.

    And just like the neighbourhood where you grew up will be uprooted at some point in time, so your Balder's Gate has moved on. A whole new generation lives there that doesn't care too much about the talk of the senile old guys.

    Not honestly or correctly you can't. And what you don't seem to get is the neighborhood was paved over and you're pretending it's still a neighborhood. Senility doesn't come into it; facts do. Not claiming ownership, just paying attention to what's actually happening.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    thats what some don't get. yes this is still a dnd game but it has nothing to do with the baldurs gate saga. it could have been called anything else and the people complaining would have been fine with it.

    but the fact they called it baldurs gate 3 when the plot has nothing at all to do with the bhaalspawn makes it seem like a cash grab. it's a story about you being cursed by a mind flayer. now i also don't like mind flayers so the game was already getting negative points just for them being main villains

    and before you say " what about dark alliance?" those games never pretended to be baldurs gate 3 it's obvious those are spin offs. even interplay did not try and pretend say fallout bos was fallout 3.

    remove the 3 and people will have less to complain about it.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    megamike15 wrote: »
    thats what some don't get. yes this is still a dnd game but it has nothing to do with the baldurs gate saga. it could have been called anything else and the people complaining would have been fine with it.

    but the fact they called it baldurs gate 3 when the plot has nothing at all to do with the bhaalspawn makes it seem like a cash grab. it's a story about you being cursed by a mind flayer. now i also don't like mind flayers so the game was already getting negative points just for them being main villains

    and before you say " what about dark alliance?" those games never pretended to be baldurs gate 3 it's obvious those are spin offs. even interplay did not try and pretend say fallout bos was fallout 3.

    remove the 3 and people will have less to complain about it.

    You're saying that they didn't add "Baldur's Gate" to the titles of those games to sell more copies?? Because otherwise they are wholly indistinguishable from any other console hack n' slash ever made. In fact, Champions of Norrath did it better. So why are Dark Alliance 1 & 2 remembered so fondly, as opposed to about 3 or 4 Lord of the Rings games from the same time period that are nearly identical gameplay-wise?? Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if for many people, Dark Alliance IS what Baldur's Gate is to them, because they have never been a PC gamer.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if for many people, Dark Alliance IS what Baldur's Gate is to them, because they have never been a PC gamer.
    Joke's on them then. As you may recall, the upcoming Dark Alliance game has dropped the "Baldur's Gate" bit in its title.
    Which is absolutely not a show of favoritism on WotC's end for a certain Belgium studio. :p
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2020
    This is really getting ridiculous. At the end of the day we are all entitled to our opinions but this thread and some others are becoming a joke. I’m getting pretty fed up of coming on this forum and being made to feel like a second rate Baldur’s Gate fan or as some people on here have said ‘not a true fan at all’ just because unlike some of you I am not enraged by Baldur’s Gate 3 not being exactly what some of you had dreamed up in your heads. I appreciate that it goes both ways and some nasty stuff has been said towards the people that are not happy with the direction Baldur’s Gate 3 is going but this really needs to stop. These forums used to be such a nice place to visit. Now it’s just full of toxic arguments. At the end of the day it doesn’t make people any less Baldur’s Gate fans if they think this is a deserving sequel. Not everyone has the same points of view and I think we all just need to accept that and agree to disagree.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @byrne20 " At the end of the day it doesn’t make people any less Baldur’s Gate fans if they think this is a deserving sequel. Not everyone has the same points of view and I think we all just need to accept that and agree to disagree."

    Okay I disagree. Now can you guys stop telling us that we can't voice our opinons?
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359
    edited March 2020
    I don't recall calling anyone a second rate fan. I recall pointing out that what's being called Baldur's Gate 3 isn't actually that game. If someone feels like a second rate fan because that's being pointed out? Maybe they should reassess why they feel that way.

    You wanna say "I want to like this game"? Sure, go for it. Doesn't make you a second class anything. You wanna say "this IS Baldur's Gate 3", someone's gonna point out it's not. And we are not second rate, or a senile old guy as one person called me, for saying so.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Arcalian I am now calling every Elder Scrolls game post Oblivion "Oblivion x" now. That's hilarious.

    @jjstraka34 You're missing the point. The problem isn't the "Baldur's Gate" in the title, its the "3". A spin-off would be fine (the Dark Alliance games were fine), but the blatant cynicism and falsehood behind calling it "Baldur's Gate 3" is EA lootbox levels of bad.

    Sigh. SoD was great. I really, REALLY wish we were getting more of that. Beamdog understands the BG spirit better than any other company. I must have fallen into the worst parallell universe at some point.

    yet i'm somehow a hypocrite because i used dark alliance as an example and was fine with it.

    i know he did not out right call me that but i got that from his post.

    again dark alliance is a spin off . it was never pretending to be a sequel to baldurs gate 1 or 2. thats why i also used the bos example. it was not called fallout 3 at all as it was a spin offs.

    fallout 3 on the other hand has nothing really to do with the previous games. it was Bethesda cashing in on the name. if anything new vegas is more fallout 3 as t has more in common with 1 and 2.

    and thats exactly what larian is doing with bg 3. if people can call fallout 3 oblivion with guns [ which it is] then i have a right to call baldurs gate 3 divinity original sin 3 with a baldurs gate skin.

  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    @ThacoBell fair enough.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2020
    @Arcalian in fairness I don’t recall seeing you specifically say that but even so it has been said. Either way it doesn’t matter because I’ve also seen people from the other side of the debate say some pretty cruel stuff so it goes both ways.

    Like I said you’re entitled to your point of view and I’m sorry if someone called you a senile old man. That is not called for.

    I personally am going to stop engaging in any more debate on the matter because the fact is we can argue until we are blue in the face and it won’t change the FACT that Larian are making Baldur’s Gate 3 and no words on this forum will ever change that. I am really excited for it. Getting involved in all this toxic debate is starting to ruin it a bit for me.
  • LookToWindwardLookToWindward Member Posts: 179
    I agreee, it really shouldn't be called BG3, it's misleading as it makes you think the game play will be similar or the same as BG1 and BG2. I actually bought Div:OS2 and hated it after being used to BG1 and 2, I played it for a couple of days and now it's in the great bit-bucket in the sky, a waste of money, if I'd have known the game play was different I wouldn't have bought it.

    I think the naming of this title (BG3) will hurt Beamdog in that anyone trying BG3, would be put off buying BG1 and BG2 or will get a nasty surprise!

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,724
    edited March 2020
    Lotti wrote: »
    A whole new generation lives there that doesn't care too much about the talk of the senile old guys.
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Now can you guys stop telling us that we can't voice our opinons?

    Dear Lotti and ThacoBell! I ask you to reconsider the tone. It's been a heated, yes, but respectful discussion about BG3 since the gameplay reveal. People who are excited about BG3, people who are neutral, people who are upset with BG3, - they ALL have the full right to voice their opinion.

    And when one from those groups says something, it doesn't require immediate responses from another group. It doesn't require a reaction as if you don't comment, something will stay as 100% truth. Please take into account that any comment is an opinion.

    We have high standards for discussion on these boards, let's try and follow them, together. The worst we want to get is people getting discouraged discussing here feeling some pressure and/or disrespect from other users.

    Don't target other users in your comments, everyone. Target the arguments that are being brought up.
    byrne20 wrote: »
    This is really getting ridiculous. At the end of the day we are all entitled to our opinions but this thread and some others are becoming a joke. I’m getting pretty fed up of coming on this forum and being made to feel like a second rate Baldur’s Gate fan or as some people on here have said ‘not a true fan at all’ just because unlike some of you I am not enraged by Baldur’s Gate 3 not being exactly what some of you had dreamed up in your heads. I appreciate that it goes both ways and some nasty stuff has been said towards the people that are not happy with the direction Baldur’s Gate 3 is going but this really needs to stop. These forums used to be such a nice place to visit. Now it’s just full of toxic arguments. At the end of the day it doesn’t make people any less Baldur’s Gate fans if they think this is a deserving sequel. Not everyone has the same points of view and I think we all just need to accept that and agree to disagree.

    ^This!
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  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 369
    chimaera wrote: »
    The only non-toxic fanbase I know is Vogel's. And I think it's because there most are old players.

    Just old, or senile old? :D
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    jefff makes fun of the fact he is old and tired. so both?
  • EnilwynEnilwyn Member Posts: 140
    @chimaera

    I 'feel' (let me make it clear this is just me) that there's this part of gaming where if fans don't voice their concerns (and this is usually not done eloquently) they feel like the game is going to be something they don't want it to be. Fair enough I suppose. I often wonder if they email, fax, snail-mail bands telling them not to make a s!@# album. And I don't particularly wish to talk about Sonic. That was literally one thing, the biggest thing, the most obvious thing, they messed up. There's no nuance to that situation.

    This is why I would love to hear from a Beamdog dev regarding what kind of feedback might actually make a dev re-think something. I don't code or make video games, I'm purely a consumer. I still know some things are more difficult than others to do a u-turn on, more time consuming, more expensive. I don't think any dev is going to come out and say, "okay we've put like....30 months of work into this but here is a list of things we could change if you don't like them."

    The devs are in a no-win situation if they try to go about pleasing everyone. And they just might end up pleasing no one. Sure there's alpha, beta, early access...but in this instance of BG3...(please correct me if I'm wrong) Larian aren't going to change the engine. No one should have been under the impression this was going to be a RTwP game. They may refine it but it's going to be turn-based and it's not all of a sudden going to be first-person. I see a loooooot of people saying "it's pre-alpha all of this is going to change", and then they cite the engine for some strange reason.

    I agree with you. But I have to willingly admit I love the drama. I'm simply fascinated by the dynamic that forms around these events. They all seem to follow the same steps and yet every time a new game is announced and we slog through the process, it's like it's the first time. I can appreciate that a lot of money is on the line but I'd love a little less showmanship. Instead of being coy to the question "will Minsc be in this game?" I'd love an answer of "hard no (even if he ends up being in it anyway)" or "what benefit would I get answering that question?"

    The older you get the harder it gets to throw that pitchfork over the shoulder. I've been gaming for over 30 years and I still don't identify with the gaming community at large. It's too diverse and apparently my sliver of it has poor lobbying. I can't imagine how hard it is for a dev these days when everyone wants ultimate transparency and then (somehow) be surprised when the game comes out.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @byrne20 "it won’t change the FACT that Larian are making Baldur’s Gate 3"

    Its a fact that Larian are making a D&D game. It being BG3 is easily debateable though. Not a single person has been able to demonstrate how this is a sequel to BG2 in any way. Its a fraudulent title.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2020
    @ThacoBell if thinking that makes you feel better then that’s fine :smile: Like I said before, you’re very welcome to your opinion but it is exactly that, Your opinion! And that is also a FACT :smile:
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited March 2020
    Let's pour some more oil...

    There are a lot of things in the original BG that just don't appeal for modern gamers, like RTwP or attack rolls that make most of combat chaotic and unpredictable. Larian are able to be creative and decide if that's really the kind of game they're trying to make. So Baldur's Gate 3 is getting substantial mechanics upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad. (C)
    Yes, I'm more or less reusing Amber's words on SoD's writing
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    Ardanis wrote: »
    Let's pour some more oil...

    There are a lot of things in the original BG that just don't appeal for modern gamers, like RTwP or attack rolls that make most of combat chaotic and unpredictable. Larian are able to be creative and decide if that's really the kind of game they're trying to make. So Baldur's Gate 3 is getting substantial mechanics upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad. (C)
    Yes, I'm more or less reusing Amber's words on SoD's writing

    Except not.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    i can seee the situation being just like what happend with sod. to me it feels the same yet the sides switched. people that were fine with sod are not fine with bg 3. and the ones that hated on sod are fine with bg 3.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    megamike15 wrote: »
    i can seee the situation being just like what happend with sod. to me it feels the same yet the sides switched. people that were fine with sod are not fine with bg 3. and the ones that hated on sod are fine with bg 3.

    Well, I wont pretend to speak for everyone - but I was definitely good with SoD, and I am totally fine with BG3. I dont know if this theory will hold up (But maybe it will? I dont exactly know how people have broke down in the pro-SoD vs anti-SoD camp here).
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2020
    I loved Siege of Dragonspear and was majorly happy with Beamdogs efforts.

    I also love what I’ve seen of Baldur’s Gate 3 so far so I fear you may be slightly off base there @megamike15
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    megamike15 wrote: »
    i can seee the situation being just like what happend with sod. to me it feels the same yet the sides switched. people that were fine with sod are not fine with bg 3. and the ones that hated on sod are fine with bg 3.

    How about being fine with both of them. Because frankly, I agree that artists should, essentially say, like it or don't, but if you're going to DEMAND I do things a certain way, go pound sand. If I was Larian and I just had the best reviewed RPG of the last decade, why would I sit around listening to people who basically want nothing more than an elaborate Infinity Engine mod?? Which is, quite frankly, exactly what Siege of Dragonspear is. It's a really good, exceptionally long content mod with official licensing.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2020
    I think a couple of very interesting points I am picking up on so far story wise are that

    1. They are heavily pushing the whole ‘’how will you use the evil power that is inside you’’ which clearly links to the original games in a sense that having the Bhaal blood was also a similar experience.

    2. I’ve also seen quite a few mentions that ‘The Dead Three’ are playing a large role in this game if not being the main antagonists.. if that is true then that would mean that Bhaal will be involved as in official lore I believe he has been resurrected now. This point alone would provide a very large link to the previous games :smile:
    Post edited by byrne20 on
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