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Might and Magic 6-7-8 Merge Mod

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  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 858
    edited March 2020
    As I think I've said before, Merge is balanced with the assumption that you'll be hopping continents as you go through the game, as opposed to completing the game one continent at a time. The main issue with that idea is that there's nothing aside from Verdant's quest line to encourage you to do this (and the secondary issue is that you have to progress at least somewhat in the plot in order to cast Dimension Door by yourself)

    (You'd think that the excuse plot would be a good excuse to move stuff around - like putting the MM6 memory crystals in Castle Lambent/Castle Gloaming/Abandoned Pirate Keep, or the only control cube in the trio being the one at the bottom of the Tomb of VARN but you get to keep it instead of turning it in ever, or putting the elemental hearts in the four Memory Crystal dungeons, but apparently that's too invasive?)

    E: Your "Congratulations! You Beat The Game" certificate comes from completing Verdant's quest line, but you should have gotten a ring called the Circle of Life or something for stopping the Kreegan invasion. It gives the wearer a recurring Shared Life effect.
    BelgarathMTHJuliusBorisov
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Pokota , I don't think I got that ring, but it might have gone into one of my character's inventories without my noticing.

    I'll still use the merge to play MM6, and probably MM8, since I don't think it will change much from vanilla MM8, being in that engine, but I'll start a new level one character when I'm ready to play MM8.

    I'll play MM7 without the merge.

    The thing with me is that one of the main things I enjoy about MM 6-8 is the process of creating new parties and leveling them from level one. That's half the fun for me. It's nice to have the choice to move around the three games while leveling, but I don't think it's a feature I'll use, and I definitely don't want to play the beginning and mid games of the two I didn't start in at high level.

    I know you've mentioned there's a bonus dungeon or area created that goes with Verdant's quest, but I'm okay with skipping that, since I really don't like when party-based games force you to play solo for a time, possibly not even with the character of your choice, and you've said that's what happens. It's one reason I never played KOTOR 2 after the first time, and I've read that P:KM does something similar in the final act.

    But as I've said, I still find the merge very useful, because of vanilla MM6 looking unplayably bad and blurry enough to induce headaches on my 4K TV. I'll miss those character templates and voice sets, though. Maybe in time the nice people working on the mod will get the voice set problems sorted out, although I also will miss the MM6 paper dolls and gear for nostalgia reasons. Seeing my "old friends' " heads placed on MM8 bodies doesn't quite do it for me. :)
    GrammarsaladJuliusBorisov
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 369
    What are the voice set problems you guys keep mentioning? I just started on Antagarich with a party of mixed character portraits from MM7 and MM8, and used their default voice sets. All their voices seem to be working fine to me. In what situation does it not work? I’m using the community branch of the merge though
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 858
    It's comparable to using Baldur's Gate voice sets in Icewind Dale - MM7 and 8 have more voice clips than 6 did, so there are situations where the MM6 heads say nothing when they logically should.
    Ludwig_IIJuliusBorisov
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Ludwig_II , they won't say anything in combat. For example, eyepatch guy from MM6 will never say "Chalk one more up for the big guy!" Every character is supposed to have a line upon killing an enemy that amounts to "That was easy!" or "He was really weak!" They won't say it any more. They have a line when injured, something like "It was just a flesh wound." They won't say that any more either.

    Each character is also supposed to have an assortment of grunts while firing a bow or swinging a weapon. Those are gone, too. I actually heard "Zoltan" from MM6 make one of his combat grunts upon selecting a quick spell in his spellbook, suggesting that number or string references on the voice files may be messed up.

    In a nutshell, all the party dialogue that is supposed to happen during combat does not happen in the merge with MM6 or MM7 characters, and I can't stand it. The voice responses only trigger correctly with MM8 avatars.
    JuliusBorisovLudwig_IIFairyFamiliar
  • FairyFamiliarFairyFamiliar Member Posts: 3
    @Ludwig_II , they won't say anything in combat. For example, eyepatch guy from MM6 will never say "Chalk one more up for the big guy!" Every character is supposed to have a line upon killing an enemy that amounts to "That was easy!" or "He was really weak!" They won't say it any more. They have a line when injured, something like "It was just a flesh wound." They won't say that any more either.

    Each character is also supposed to have an assortment of grunts while firing a bow or swinging a weapon. Those are gone, too. I actually heard "Zoltan" from MM6 make one of his combat grunts upon selecting a quick spell in his spellbook, suggesting that number or string references on the voice files may be messed up.

    In a nutshell, all the party dialogue that is supposed to happen during combat does not happen in the merge with MM6 or MM7 characters, and I can't stand it. The voice responses only trigger correctly with MM8 avatars.

    I have the same problem. I really hope someone can find out the cause and gets a fix as I find it much less immersive. I made a test of having MM7 party sprites in the MMMerge version and started a new game, and compared it to the GOG version of MM7 with exact same sprite portraits and the sounds from the party in battle are significantly decreased compared to the normal gog version of the game :/
    BelgarathMTH
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    So, I, have this urge to replay MM7, as I find it the best of the trio (6,7,8). But... I can't stand the pixelated graphics anymore. Could you guys recommend me the right set of mods that are a must have these days? I'm interested in the following:
    - Updated HD graphics: this is a must. I realize I can't expect miracles here, but I imagine there are some HD graphics mods out there.
    - bug fixes: there is always some "unofficial patch" out there, so please guys, point me out to the right direction.
    - Gameplay: if possible, I'd like to use a mod that brings gameplay mechanics from MM8, especially the possibility to get 5th party member or more race variety to choose from. I always felt one more party member would be perfect. If I remember it right, MM8 offers 5 member party. Not sure if such a mod exists, but it would be nice addition.

    And that's basically it.
    Aedan
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    Ok, so I went ahead installing MMM Merge, with Community branch updates. I was following installation instructions from here, but I cannot start a new game. Every time I launch the game the debug console pops up. When I close it and push the New Game button, nothing happens. I hear only "click" sound and that's it.

    Any advice what might be the issue?

    I'm not entirely sure if I understood point 4.1 correctly. Does it mean I should copy everything except Scripts folder from Community branch to the main game folder? I didn't copy Scripts folder. Do ypu guys think this may be a problem?
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    Cahir wrote: »
    Ok, so I went ahead installing MMM Merge, with Community branch updates. I was following installation instructions from here, but I cannot start a new game. Every time I launch the game the debug console pops up. When I close it and push the New Game button, nothing happens. I hear only "click" sound and that's it.

    Any advice what might be the issue?

    I'm not entirely sure if I understood point 4.1 correctly. Does it mean I should copy everything except Scripts folder from Community branch to the main game folder? I didn't copy Scripts folder. Do you guys think this may be a problem?

    I have figured it out. Started from scratch and I did everything right this time, it seems.
    JuliusBorisov
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    The Greyface patches have options for 7 & 8 to be ran in widescreen with enhanced graphical fidelity when you install them. With 6 it isn't possible unless you use the Merge. As I have mentioned before, I certainly respect the effort of the merge mod, but it's just so fundamentally unbalanced that I will stick with the original products with the patches.
    JuliusBorisovBelgarathMTH
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @jjstraka34 , I also now use the originals with Grayface for 7 and 8 HD widescreen. I struggle to decide with 6 - the original graphic resolution looks truly horrible on my HD TV, so I need to use the merge for the graphical enhancement. However, I dislike pretty much everything else about the merge, including the balance problems, the free spell point regeneration, and especially that awful reputation bug with the Baa candelabra quest. Excessive reputation adjustments also ruin shop price balance and the merchant skill.

    It's also a problem for me that I can't use the MM.che utilities with the merge to tweak my party setup without restarting the whole game. Those character editors have saved me a lot of restarting and discarded runs when I get dissatisfied with my party, usually just with silly stuff like portrait selection and character names.
    JuliusBorisov
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 858
    The reputation bug for the Baa Candelabra sidequest is simply because MM6's reputation was scaled differently from MM8 (mm6 had a larger scale - doing basically any quest in Enroth puts your reputation at one of the two extremes for MM8's meter, and considering one of the mandatory quests puts your reputation in the toilet...)
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