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The Politics Thread

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Comments

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,882
    I agree with @Grond0 that calling what those senators did "illegal" is a stretch. If I had a spare $million laying around a month or two ago, I probably could have doubled it by now. I'm no Nostradamus or Sherlock Holmes, but I could see this coming a mile away...

    MaleficentOne
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    Even the eviction protections are basically bullshit smoke and mirrors. Assume everything they say is either a lie or at BEST half-true:

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    God, watching this Cuomo press conference in New York is like watching someone from a completely different planet. Clear, concise instructions, reasoning, everything. Most importantly, saying this is my responsibility. It's on me. If you're upset about these measures, blame me. Frankly, I've generally hated Cuomo for years. But this is how you at the very least, ACT as a leader in a crisis. It may (likely will) turn out he was too slow on some of these measures. But he hasn't been bullshitting anyone, he's been completely straight about his reasoning for everything. Apparently Schumer got on the phone with Trump this morning and BEGGED Trump to start production of the supplies that are needed. It should have started two weeks ago.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,962
    edited March 2020
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    God, watching this Cuomo press conference in New York is like watching someone from a completely different planet. Clear, concise instructions, reasoning, everything. Most importantly, saying this is my responsibility. It's on me. If you're upset about these measures, blame me. Frankly, I've generally hated Cuomo for years. But this is how you at the very least, ACT as a leader in a crisis. It may (likely will) turn out he was too slow on some of these measures. But he hasn't been bullshitting anyone, he's been completely straight about his reasoning for everything. Apparently Schumer got on the phone with Trump this morning and BEGGED Trump to start production of the supplies that are needed. It should have started two weeks ago.

    I'm sure that went over well. Begging Trump to do the right thing. The only thing he respects is force. As should be obvious after 3 years he's not a good leader. If only there was an opportunity in the recent past to get rid of him.... If only he'd given us a clue that he'd be more worried about himself and lying to make himself look better than doing his job in a crisis. If only we had responsible senators who cared more about america than blind party loyalty.

    Vote. And the four Republican Senators that traded on inside information based on Senate intelligence briefings should be in prison.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,752
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    It's worth mentioning for what seems like the 100th time that things haven't even BEGUN to get as bad as they are going to in the US. We will more than likely hit 30,000 cases by Sunday or Monday. New York is, by any measure at this point, set to become like Wuhan or Lombardy. I fully expect Florida will see a rampant spike in cases within the next week, and California is flat-out saying that the worst case scenario is half the population of the state catching it within the next 8 weeks. We're already sufficiently freaked out, and we should be. But things are rapidly falling to pieces from a hospital perspective LONG before they are going to be at their peak. And without the federal government acting as a "shipping clerk", the major metro areas of this country are doomed to a level of death and tragedy that I'm not even sure we can fully comprehend yet.

    You know what just clicked for me?

    The federal government telling the states to go fend for themselves is actually just an attack on California to get back at Shiff and Pelosi. They and New York are the only ones who desperately need the equipment now. Once the Right Wing media begins attacking them in those two states botched responses he’ll start being “the shipping clerk” for the rest of the country starting with the swing states he needs to win in November.

    ThacoBellsmeagolheartsemiticgoddess
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    deltago wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    It's worth mentioning for what seems like the 100th time that things haven't even BEGUN to get as bad as they are going to in the US. We will more than likely hit 30,000 cases by Sunday or Monday. New York is, by any measure at this point, set to become like Wuhan or Lombardy. I fully expect Florida will see a rampant spike in cases within the next week, and California is flat-out saying that the worst case scenario is half the population of the state catching it within the next 8 weeks. We're already sufficiently freaked out, and we should be. But things are rapidly falling to pieces from a hospital perspective LONG before they are going to be at their peak. And without the federal government acting as a "shipping clerk", the major metro areas of this country are doomed to a level of death and tragedy that I'm not even sure we can fully comprehend yet.

    You know what just clicked for me?

    The federal government telling the states to go fend for themselves is actually just an attack on California to get back at Shiff and Pelosi. They and New York are the only ones who desperately need the equipment now. Once the Right Wing media begins attacking them in those two states botched responses he’ll start being “the shipping clerk” for the rest of the country starting with the swing states he needs to win in November.

    Gonna be really interesting to see the "coastal liberal elites getting what they deserve" narrative take hold. Interesting how they never held that view after 9/11, even though nearly everyone who died was from New York.

    Trump is now directly contradicting a doctor about how well the malaria drug works on COVID-19 because he has a "feeling". This is insanity. He seems to be suggesting that clinical trials be abandoned entirely. Because god knows nothing bad could come from that. Let's just inject something into hundreds of thousands of people without knowing what the result will be.

    ThacoBellsmeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,882
    edited March 2020
    I'm no longer listening to the Rush Limbaugh Show (aka: the Blame China Show). Accidentally had it on while driving to the party store to get some bread. What a bunch of xenophobic claptrap...

    jjstraka34BallpointMansmeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    God, watching this Cuomo press conference in New York is like watching someone from a completely different planet. Clear, concise instructions, reasoning, everything. Most importantly, saying this is my responsibility. It's on me. If you're upset about these measures, blame me. Frankly, I've generally hated Cuomo for years. But this is how you at the very least, ACT as a leader in a crisis. It may (likely will) turn out he was too slow on some of these measures. But he hasn't been bullshitting anyone, he's been completely straight about his reasoning for everything. Apparently Schumer got on the phone with Trump this morning and BEGGED Trump to start production of the supplies that are needed. It should have started two weeks ago.

    I'm sure that went over well. Begging Trump to do the right thing. The only thing he respects is force. As should be obvious after 3 years he's not a good leader. If only there was an opportunity in the recent past to get rid of him.... If only he'd given us a clue that he'd be more worried about himself and lying to make himself look better than doing his job in a crisis. If only we had responsible senators who cared more about america than blind party loyalty.

    Vote. And the four Republican Senators that traded on inside information based on Senate intelligence briefings should be in prison.

    So, more on Feinstein, the story was complete bullshit "both-siderism" as usual. #1 she wasn't even at the meeting. No Democrats were. #2 her stock wasn't even sold on that date. Burr and Loeffler sold it the DAY OF the briefing #3 they have actually lost money on the trade. But want to know what the headline on FOX News is?? "Feinstein and 3 other Senators sell stocks".

    ThacoBellsmeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I'm no longer listening to the Rush Limbaugh Show (aka: the Blame China Show). Accidentally had it on while driving to the party store to get some bread. What a bunch of xenophobic claptrap...

    We've now closed the border with Mexico. If you look at the number of cases in our respective countries, it's likely Mexico who is cheering that decision. When this is over, they're gonna want a wall to protect them from us.

    Reporter: What do you say to Americans, who are watching you right now, who are scared?"

    President Trump: "I say that you're a terrible reporter. That's what I say. I think it's a very nasty question. And I think it's a very bad signal that you're putting out..."


    Another "gotcha" question I guess. This is so completely innocuous and easy to answer. He has no empathy, no soul. He has a black hole where his humanity should be. It's just a maelstrom of insecurity and rage. I mean, how hard is it to just FAKE an decent response to something like that?? Something like "I understand people are scared, it's ok to be scared. But let's not panic. Let's hunker down and get through this together by all doing our part. And I want people to know that we're working on this 24/7." That isn't great. But it's something. And it took me 15 seconds to come up with.

    There is no reason to carry these press conferences. It's just Trump spewing bullshit, venom, and now today he is contradicting his own top medical expert in real-time. We don't have a President. We are on our own.

    By the way, the China bashing?? This is what Trump said about China in January. From the horses mouth:



    Take a look at Dr. Fauci here. You don't have to be an expert in body language to understand what he is dealing with on a daily basis:

    smeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,882
    We've closed the border to Canada too though so it's not like we're singling out Mexico. Trucks are still allowed to cross the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit (for now), but that's it. The busiest border crossing bridge in North America is essentially closed to non-commercial traffic. I'm guessing all the drivers are being screened, too. I might take a drive to Detroit tomorrow when I get bored just to see how backed up the truck traffic is (thousands of trucks cross that bridge every single day). Stay tuned...

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,882
    I encourage everybody to sign up for the newsletters offered by their representatives and senators. I've signed up for updates from both Representative Debbie Dingell and Senator Gary Peters. They're very informative and point out the various programs available to help people in these trying times.

    jjstraka34deltagoBallpointMan
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    We've closed the border to Canada too though so it's not like we're singling out Mexico. Trucks are still allowed to cross the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit (for now), but that's it. The busiest border crossing bridge in North America is essentially closed to non-commercial traffic. I'm guessing all the drivers are being screened, too. I might take a drive to Detroit tomorrow when I get bored just to see how backed up the truck traffic is (thousands of trucks cross that bridge every single day). Stay tuned...

    I don't have any problem closing the borders. I'm just saying in very short order, the United States is going to have, BY FAR, the most cases of any country.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I encourage everybody to sign up for the newsletters offered by their representatives and senators. I've signed up for updates from both Representative Debbie Dingell and Senator Gary Peters. They're very informative and point out the various programs available to help people in these trying times.

    I didn't even have to sign up, I was just sent one, and I have no idea how he had my email. While it did provide info about programs, it was also filled with ALOT of "Dear Leader" bullshit. But I wouldn't expect anything less from North Dakota's one House rep.

    So I don't take up another post, this is spot on:

    smeagolheartMaleficentOneThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    @Mathsorcerer "Make me."

    I don't think I will. You see, I'm an actual responsible adult who cares about the well being of my family and those around me. As such, I will take appropriate measures to keep them safe.

    smeagolheart
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,916
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Trump is now directly contradicting a doctor about how well the malaria drug works on COVID-19 because he has a "feeling". This is insanity. He seems to be suggesting that clinical trials be abandoned entirely. Because god knows nothing bad could come from that. Let's just inject something into hundreds of thousands of people without knowing what the result will be.

    An antiviral effect has been shown through trials for a while now - for instance it's been tested in past years on the SARS virus. Therefore it was no surprise that the trials the Chinese did in February showed it did help reduce the severity of Covid-19 symptoms.

    Chloroquine was invented in 1934 and has been extensively used for malaria protection since WWII, as well as for a few other purposes - so the expected side effects are well known. Therefore there really is a case for saying it could be used without the normal extensive clinical trials (even though I don't want to undermine the general point about Trump's lack of rational response to this crisis).

    However, it is by no means a wonder drug. Due to the side effects it has not been recommended for use on people aged over 65 or with underlying health conditions - so using it on the groups most vulnerable to Covid-19 would carry significant dangers of its own. Given the risk of litigation this causes, I imagine that the government would therefore either have to change the law or underwrite liability to allow it to be used on these groups - and either of those actions seem fairly unlikely to me. Even without that it could still provide some benefit, e.g. by reducing the stays in hospital of younger and fitter people who happen to have got fairly significant Covid-19 infections, but such benefit is likely to be pretty marginal.

    BallpointManBalrog99MaleficentOne
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,962
    edited March 2020
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Take a look at Dr. Fauci here. You don't have to be an expert in body language to understand what he is dealing with on a daily basis:


    Dr Fauci is about to laugh at Trump's complete idiocy but holds it in through sheer effort of will.

    AyiekieThacoBell
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,916
    In recent days the UK has announced a number of massive interventions to support the economy in various ways. Today's briefing included proposals to support employment, in particular that government will pay up to 80% of worker's wages, up to £2,500 per month. In recognition of the fact that some jobs have already been lost, that can apply retrospectively to 1st March.

    The most obvious remaining hole in the various support packages is the impact on self-employed and contract workers. There are also going to be detailed announcements in due course about the support on offer to specific industries - like airlines for instance. However, it's worth repeating that the commitments already made are unprecedented in peacetime. I don't know what the final bill for Covid-19 will be, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the combination of increased costs and reduced revenue over the next year was greater than the total previously projected net cost of all other government activities (around £900bn).

    Balrog99MaleficentOne
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    Grond0 wrote: »
    In recent days the UK has announced a number of massive interventions to support the economy in various ways. Today's briefing included proposals to support employment, in particular that government will pay up to 80% of worker's wages, up to £2,500 per month. In recognition of the fact that some jobs have already been lost, that can apply retrospectively to 1st March.

    The most obvious remaining hole in the various support packages is the impact on self-employed and contract workers. There are also going to be detailed announcements in due course about the support on offer to specific industries - like airlines for instance. However, it's worth repeating that the commitments already made are unprecedented in peacetime. I don't know what the final bill for Covid-19 will be, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the combination of increased costs and reduced revenue over the next year was greater than the total previously projected net cost of all other government activities (around £900bn).

    Meanwhile, the current GOP plan in the Senate would leave those who had no tax liability in 2018 (in other words, the poorest people, who are likely in the most dire situation now with their jobs) with about $600.00. The US is a failed state. We are the shithole country. Our endless greed has made us incapable of addressing this kind of crisis. Literally every other country on Earth is doing better than us, with the possible exception of Iran, And our refusal to lift sanctions on Iran at this moment is tantamount to genocide.

    Grond0smeagolheartThacoBell
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,009
    deltago wrote: »
    The federal government telling the states to go fend for themselves

    That is not what happened. What happened was the Federal Government told States that if they can purchase them more quickly then they should go ahead and do so. There were instances where States were placing orders, finding out that the Federal Government had submitted better bids, but just today Trump said that if those Governors encounter that situation that they should call in so that the Federal Government can cancel its bid and allow the States to purchase the supplies directly. This is what happens when news agencies print only *part* of a quote.
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    We've now closed the border with Mexico. If you look at the number of cases in our respective countries, it's likely Mexico who is cheering that decision.

    The part you missed was that the Obrador Administration *also* closed the border to non-essential traffice from *their* side--they don't want corona cases coming south into their country. You might try listening to news sources that are not pushing only one agenda.

    California ordered "stay at home" for the State, but Newsom waffled on the question of enforcement. Governor Cuomo in New York did not waffle--people who defy their "stay at home" order will be arrested. It is only a matter of time before New York-style "stay at home" orders come to your State.

    MaleficentOne
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    deltago wrote: »
    The federal government telling the states to go fend for themselves

    That is not what happened. What happened was the Federal Government told States that if they can purchase them more quickly then they should go ahead and do so. There were instances where States were placing orders, finding out that the Federal Government had submitted better bids, but just today Trump said that if those Governors encounter that situation that they should call in so that the Federal Government can cancel its bid and allow the States to purchase the supplies directly. This is what happens when news agencies print only *part* of a quote.
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    We've now closed the border with Mexico. If you look at the number of cases in our respective countries, it's likely Mexico who is cheering that decision.

    The part you missed was that the Obrador Administration *also* closed the border to non-essential traffice from *their* side--they don't want corona cases coming south into their country. You might try listening to news sources that are not pushing only one agenda.

    California ordered "stay at home" for the State, but Newsom waffled on the question of enforcement. Governor Cuomo in New York did not waffle--people who defy their "stay at home" order will be arrested. It is only a matter of time before New York-style "stay at home" orders come to your State.

    If people had an ounce of intelligence or civic responsibility they wouldn't need orders. There are 4 reasons to be out of your house at this point, in most places in the country:

    1.) Going to and from your job if it's still open and essential.

    2.) Running essential errands (grocery or pharmaceutical)

    3.) Doing solitary exercise like walking or running

    4.) Transporting someone to a medical facility.

    That's it. Anyone else is simply selfish and putting others in danger.

    As for hospital supplies and the federal government, don't even attempt to give them a pass. This should have been anticipated a month ago. They were the ones who had the info and ignored it (aside from using it to dump stocks) There are places where they have literally set-up sewing stations in-house to manufacture homemade masks. Greatest country in the world my ass. And the "bids" are precisely the problem. 50 states and the federal government all having a virtual auction because, hey, why would we want to keep a perfectly good pandemic response team in place to plan for and coordinate such a hypothetical scenario.

    It's hard to say what this in the end is going to prove, but for damn sure it's gonna drive a stake through the heart of the idea that libertarian political philosophy can possibly respond to something of this magnitude in any way, shape, or form.

    Not that they won't try. Apparently, ventilator manufacturers are saying they have been approached by high-wealth individuals looking to personally purchase their own. Thus far, they have been turned down. This is a dry-run for climate change. The rich will let the rest of us drown if they can save themselves.

    They just keep pushing. Hotels, airlines and cruise ships looking for billions in bailout money while people can't even afford baby formula. Trying to requisition scarce medical equipment for themselves. Using vital information to keep their portfolios intact. This is how the Bastille gets stormed.

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    smeagolheartMaleficentOneThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,882
    They've fattened us up too much on junk food to storm the Bastille these days. I doubt most people would get off the couch long enough to write harsh language to their Congressmen.

    MaleficentOne
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,962
    edited March 2020
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    They've fattened us up too much on junk food to storm the Bastille these days. I doubt most people would get off the couch long enough to write harsh language to their Congressmen.

    well we probably shouldn't let them just get away with it?
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    As for hospital supplies and the federal government, don't even attempt to give them a pass. This should have been anticipated a month ago. They were the ones who had the info and ignored it (aside from using it to dump stocks) There are places where they have literally set-up sewing stations in-house to manufacture homemade masks. Greatest country in the world my ass. And the "bids" are precisely the problem. 50 states and the federal government all having a virtual auction because, hey, why would we want to keep a perfectly good pandemic response team in place to plan for and coordinate such a hypothetical scenario.

    The briefing before the Republicans dumped stock was in January. So they have known for months. Our national response is only slightly better than Irans. It features probably about the same amount of lying and gaslighting though by the supreme leader.

    Post edited by smeagolheart on
    ThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,882
    @smeagolheart

    I'm picturing storming DC while maintaining social distancing. That would be the weirdest revolution ever! Make Bernie our Napoleon?

    Ayiekie
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    edited March 2020
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    It's worth mentioning for what seems like the 100th time that things haven't even BEGUN to get as bad as they are going to in the US. We will more than likely hit 30,000 cases by Sunday or Monday. New York is, by any measure at this point, set to become like Wuhan or Lombardy. I fully expect Florida will see a rampant spike in cases within the next week, and California is flat-out saying that the worst case scenario is half the population of the state catching it within the next 8 weeks. We're already sufficiently freaked out, and we should be. But things are rapidly falling to pieces from a hospital perspective LONG before they are going to be at their peak. And without the federal government acting as a "shipping clerk", the major metro areas of this country are doomed to a level of death and tragedy that I'm not even sure we can fully comprehend yet.

    To add to this and provide a sense of scale, the number of confirmed cases in the US have tripled since the 17th.

    Editing to add: Given the size of the United States it's probably not entirely fair to use raw numbers vs. raw numbers (say US vs. Italy) to measure the severity of the situation, given how big the US is and how many people live here. That is to say, about 5.5x as many people. If we have as many or more confirmed cases than Italy on Monday, it'll largely be three areas that are actually doing badly, many other areas in danger of doing badly, and many others possibly not yet on the radar at all. I feel like talking about the US like that both over and underestimates the severity of the situation.

    Also, Washington has more confirmed cases than California at this point, for those wondering which states have been hit the worst.

    Post edited by BelleSorciere on
    ThacoBell
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,962
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    @smeagolheart

    I'm picturing storming DC while maintaining social distancing. That would be the weirdest revolution ever! Make Bernie our Napoleon?
    @Balrog99

    ?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F2f%2F8c%2Fe48ab8cd4dc0a939a6eaef328572%2Fwuc200319-1160.jpg

    Balrog99BelleSorcierebleusteelThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    @smeagolheart

    I'm picturing storming DC while maintaining social distancing. That would be the weirdest revolution ever! Make Bernie our Napoleon?

    Didn't end so well for Napoleon either. His final defeat is literally the universal vernacular for when someone loses for the last time..

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,882
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    @smeagolheart

    I'm picturing storming DC while maintaining social distancing. That would be the weirdest revolution ever! Make Bernie our Napoleon?

    Didn't end so well for Napoleon either. His final defeat is literally the universal vernacular for when someone loses for the last time..

    Bernie's the only politician I've ever seen in all these years that actually seems to give a shit. Napoleon achieved quite a few things before his ultimate demise. Some of those 'extreme' ideas are pillars of democracy now. He also had no support from the 'powers that be' of the time. That was his (and Bernie's) undoing.

    smeagolheartGrond0BelleSorciere
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,610
    edited March 2020
    Take a look at the date on this tweet from Senator Chris Murphy:


    And then look at this:


    At a bare minimum, this is historic incompetence that is EERILY reminiscent of the warnings the Bush Administration received in the summer leading up to 9/11. At worst, we have to start contemplating whether this was done on purpose.

    Again, I try not to post MSNBC videos because people tend to view them as the FOX of the left (even though I only WISH that was the case), but this is a vital message and 100% true. The President is literally an extra obstacle we have to go around or through. Worth the 5 minutes:

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Didn't end so well for Napoleon either. His final defeat is literally the universal vernacular for when someone loses for the last time..

    Just because he lost the last wars doesn't mean he didn't win the first five. Or that what he did had no lasting effect. Few people tower as large as Napoleon does over history.

    (Besides, it's universal vernacular in sizeable part because of British propaganda, just like the widely-held idea that he was short.)

    Balrog99
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