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Son of Bhaal (40) vs. The Hero of Neverwinter (40)

MagnakaiMagnakai Member Posts: 7
in one corner, a demigod in his own right. in the other, a frankenstein of a character with unheard of feats like devastating... 1 vs. 1?! both been to Hell and back. it's like... Carsomyr vs. Death's Handmaiden?!

pls. no flaming lol. no need to be so serious. just a light hearted discussion. which hero did you enjoy playing more albeit them being on 2 different platforms & which u considered more badass. put your troubles aside for a while, log-in, talk some shit, give ur 2 cents!! All posts are opine and none are wrong

Note: And no retardo posts like "ooohh... but one is 2e and the other is 3/3.5e..." work in 'compatibility mode' ok

StummvonBordwehrOlvynChuruFlashburnTimbo0o0o0JuliusBorisovSkatan

Comments

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,262
    In addition to the excellent points Flashburn makes, I would say it largely comes down to exactly what sort of equipment each hero is packing. For fairness' sake, I propose that we restrict each character to items that only exist as part of the base installations + expansions in each game, and not include any sort of hyper-twinked custom/modded gear that could be brought into each. ;) That means that while some very powerful items like the Cloak of Mirroring (BG2) or Rings of Universal Elemental Immunity (HotU) are allowed, special custom items like a Belt that made the Hero of Neverwinter immune to spells of every single level (which is possible in the toolset) are not because it doesn't actually exist in the base item palette.

    With that settled, I'm assuming that each hero would load themselves up with as many powerful items as they can find, along with making them immune to as many modes of attack as they can. That instantly tips the balance towards the HoN, in my opinion, because there exist a lot of immunity-style items in NWN, like the Cowl of Warding as Flashburn mentions. In addition to that Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity, it would make the HoN nearly invulnerable to any kind of magical assault. That leaves only a few magical attack options, such as Imprisonment, or chain Horrid Wilting/Skull Trap spells that deal magical damage. While the HoN has access to Spell Resistance via items or class abilities, if the Bhaalspawn is level 40 he should beat SR checks with ease.

    From the flip side, the HoN's magical attacks would likely also be very hindered thanks to items like the Cloak of Mirroring and various Magic Resistance boosts. Caster level doesn't affect MR, so there's a good chance that a spell assault by the HoN against a properly prepared Bhaalspawn would be quite ineffectual. On the other hand, there are a number of 3rd Ed spells like Acid Fog that ignore SR (and thus MR) completely, and as Flashburn pointed out, epic spells also ignore SR, so the HoN isn't completely without options. The fact that the Bhaalspawn, using 2nd Ed rules, would have a very low HP total compared to a 3rd Ed character, means that such spells might still be able to kill the Bhaalspawn if used properly while under a Time Stop effect, for instance.

    So what about martial characters? Here's where I think the balance leans heavily towards the HoN's favour. Because 3rd Ed characters can build up such massive HP pools, coupled with the fact that their attack bonus continues to grow into the epic levels, the poor AC of the 2nd Ed Bhaalspawn would not be sufficient to defend against that; the HoN could afford to pump lots of AB into Power Attack and STILL hit every single time. It's entirely feasible for the HoN, using something like a Champion of Torm PrC, to dish out in excess of 300 damage every single round if all their attacks hit.

    From the opposite end, a Bhaalspawn melee type would likely fare quite poorly against an AC-buffed HoN. Due to the way AC bonuses stack in 3rd Ed, it's quite possible to build a character whose AC reaches into the high 40's/low 50's, resulting in an untouchable target for the Bhaalspawn unless they get natural 20's. Between these two factors and the higher HP pool, there's really no question here; a melee HoN would easily decimate a melee Bhaalspawn.

    That leaves basically a magic-using Bhaalspawn vs (likely) a melee HoN, and it would all come down to whether or not the Bhaalspawn gets lucky with his spell assault (if he managed to get Imprisonment off first, for example).

    FlashburnJuliusBorisovsemiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,385
    Wait, how did you get past the staff of the magi + cloak of mirroring?

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,262
    What exactly do you mean? The HoN would certainly have an item that grants True Seeing, so the Staff of the Magi's invisibility power would be basically useless against them, and if you're talking about the Spell Trap power of the staff, I presume that spells like Greater Spell Breach or Mordenkainen's Disjunction would function against them similarly to how BG2 spells like Breach or Ruby Ray of Reversal would bring it down. The Cloak of Mirroring also does not protect the user from AoE spells; it only reflects spells that are directly targeted at the user, so the HoN could simply throw down various AoE spells in the general vicinity and they would all inflict damage.

    In either case, epic spells such as Greater Ruin or Hellball (which a level 40 HoN would have at their disposal) are not stopped by such protections and would go right through both defenses. Given the likely low HP of a spellcaster Bhaalspawn, some good damage rolls on either spell might be enough to simply kill them outright.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,385
    edited June 2020
    I was thinking Si divination + Si abjuration + Staff of magi for invisibility cheese and the cloak against most harmful spells. There are ways to breach that but it's not easy and needs work to accomplish well.

    I'm guessing some nwn2 items are more cheesy than bg2 and vice versa.

    I'm not sure it is easy to compare different rulesets.

  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,838
    True Sight in NWN is comparable to the invisibility detection that dragons and liches have in BG. It lets the user bypass invisibility, sanctuary, or stealth from enemies, so SI: Divination won't work because it's not a spell that affects others like BG's True Sight.

    semiticgoddess
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,262
    lroumen wrote: »
    I'm not sure it is easy to compare different rulesets.

    Hehe, I actually agree completely! But the OP's post said to disregard the incompatibility so we're trying our best to make it work. ;)

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,833
    The Cloak of Mirroring does block area-effect damage spells. Fireball spells fail to bypass it just like Magic Missiles. Only non-damage-type spells like Hold Person and Breach bypass the Cloak of Mirroring, as do "Battleground" spells such as Death Fog, Cloudkill, and Incendiary Cloud. Notably, a few non-damaging spells are classed as "Offensive Damage" spells and are blocked by the Cloak of Mirroring, such as Disintegrate and the Death Spell.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,385
    edited July 2020
    In SoA vanilla pre-ToB the cloak even reflected rather than deflected all direct target spells. Such glorious game changer that was O.o. Does it count?

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,262
    semiticgod wrote: »
    The Cloak of Mirroring does block area-effect damage spells. Fireball spells fail to bypass it just like Magic Missiles. Only non-damage-type spells like Hold Person and Breach bypass the Cloak of Mirroring, as do "Battleground" spells such as Death Fog, Cloudkill, and Incendiary Cloud. Notably, a few non-damaging spells are classed as "Offensive Damage" spells and are blocked by the Cloak of Mirroring, such as Disintegrate and the Death Spell.

    It does? Huh. My memory must be faulty then, or I was thinking of spells like Incendiary Cloud that were getting through the Cloak anyway. Hmm... Do you know if it happens to block AoE effects like dragon breath as well? Oh, and what about a Blade Barrier spell cast centered on the caster and then the caster moves into melee range of the Cloak's wearer?

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,180
    More detail on the protection provided by the cloak of mirroring:

    While spells like Cloudkill aren't flagged as "Offensive Damage", the cloak also has effects for specific immunity to some spells. A list of them:
    Cloudkill, Blade Barrier, Death Fog, Globe of Blades, Incendiary Cloud, wish Slow.
    Redundantly (they have the type): Call Lightning, Glyph of Warding, Holy Smite, Unholy Blight, Skull Trap, Fire Storm, Delayed Blast Fireball, Meteor Swarm, wish Horrid Wilting (r).

    Damage-dealing spells that get through the cloak:

    Attack enhancements (i.e Flaming Fists, Poison Weapon)
    Fireshields
    Thief traps, except for bounty hunter Special Snares.

    Sun Soulray (Sun Soul Monk)
    Vampiric Touch (Dark Moon Monk)
    Lightning Bolt (Priest of Talos)
    Breath Weapon (Dragon Disciple)
    Larloch's Minor Drain, Vampiric Touch (Bhaalspawn)

    Writhing Fog (Shaman)
    Summon Insects, Insect Plague, Creeping Doom
    False Dawn
    Earthquake
    Implosion
    Ethereal Retribution (Shaman)

    Vampiric Touch
    Sphere of Chaos
    Bigby's Clenched Fist, Bigby's Crushing Hand
    Dragon's Breath
    Comet

    Instant death spells are generally classified as "offensive damage", whether there's any damage attached or not. Spells that create weapons to attack with (such as Melf's Minute Meteors, Black Blade of Disaster, or Harm) generally have the "offensive damage" type on that weapon.

    semiticgoddess
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,020
    I would love to see a child vs hero fight.

    Actually I have dreamed about it since 2002 (the fault is BioWares for giving us that loading screen for BG2....). Wouldn’t it be neat if Beamdog could fulfill the old promise that BioWare made? Well okay, perhaps it’s just me.

    The fight could take place in a player vs player arena. We could have a forum championship and see who is the better player. A great way of keeping the community alive.

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,626
    I see big pros and cons with both.

    The trials Gorions Ward had to face were simply far greater than the Hero of Neverwinter and that probably gives him the benefit of experience. From the beginning of his adventures the Hero of Neverwinter had the benefit of the full support of the City State, including an artifact that protects him from death, along with a large network of spies and soldiers. His final enemy (Morag and The Creator Race) pales in comparison to Amellisan or even, for that matter, Irenicus. Gorion's Ward started his adventures with no support at all and with him specifically being targeted by more powerful individuals. He didn't have anything to prevent the moment of death, if he died once it was all over.

    That being said, almost every battle the Hero of Neverwinter fought he did so by himself, or with one other person at most. He is probably much more adept at being self-sufficient in battle, compared to Gorion's Ward who usually faced his opponents with a large adventuring team of equally powerful individuals. A one-on-one duel leans heavily toward the Hero.

  • lollerslollers Member Posts: 155
    The child of Bhaal as a sorcerer is so fucking anime that is not even a competition. The kid will just wear his fancy robe and amulet and use an improved alacrity and light up the sky with the fire of a hundred skull traps, explosions, comets and hail storms. And in true anime fashion she will do all of this while negotiating complex contracts with a magic djinn or 5 with a parchment in its left hand and a quill in its right, and all time will hold still while the terms of the contract are negotiated.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,811
    lollers wrote: »
    The child of Bhaal as a sorcerer is so fucking anime that is not even a competition. The kid will just wear his fancy robe and amulet and use an improved alacrity and light up the sky with the fire of a hundred skull traps, explosions, comets and hail storms. And in true anime fashion she will do all of this while negotiating complex contracts with a magic djinn or 5 with a parchment in its left hand and a quill in its right, and all time will hold still while the terms of the contract are negotiated.

    yeah can't you also use project images and such to cast entire spell books worth of spells? does that exploit or whatever it was still exist? ( in my 20+ years i've played bg2 i may have used PI once just to try it out, and after i heard how exploity it was i never attempted to use it again )

    also if that exploit is still true, the true seeing spell/ability of the HoN wouldn't matter since true seeing in that game doesnt actually dispel illusions, it just makes it so the hero can see through them, so by matter of project image; game over HoN

  • Djasko_AmsterdamDjasko_Amsterdam Member Posts: 47
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    lollers wrote: »
    The child of Bhaal as a sorcerer is so fucking anime that is not even a competition. The kid will just wear his fancy robe and amulet and use an improved alacrity and light up the sky with the fire of a hundred skull traps, explosions, comets and hail storms. And in true anime fashion she will do all of this while negotiating complex contracts with a magic djinn or 5 with a parchment in its left hand and a quill in its right, and all time will hold still while the terms of the contract are negotiated.

    yeah can't you also use project images and such to cast entire spell books worth of spells? does that exploit or whatever it was still exist? ( in my 20+ years i've played bg2 i may have used PI once just to try it out, and after i heard how exploity it was i never attempted to use it again )

    also if that exploit is still true, the true seeing spell/ability of the HoN wouldn't matter since true seeing in that game doesnt actually dispel illusions, it just makes it so the hero can see through them, so by matter of project image; game over HoN

    Project Image is still cheese, but it works as intended right

    sarevok57
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,262
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    yeah can't you also use project images and such to cast entire spell books worth of spells? does that exploit or whatever it was still exist? ( in my 20+ years i've played bg2 i may have used PI once just to try it out, and after i heard how exploity it was i never attempted to use it again )

    also if that exploit is still true, the true seeing spell/ability of the HoN wouldn't matter since true seeing in that game doesnt actually dispel illusions, it just makes it so the hero can see through them, so by matter of project image; game over HoN

    The HoN could still largely neuter such spell damage via two items though: a Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity (you are completely immune to fire, cold, lightning, acid and sonic damage), and a Ring of Improved Evasion (if you are allowed a Reflex save vs the spell for half damage, you take no damage on a successful save. 2nd Ed spells don't really have Reflex saves, so we can only mirror it to similar spells like Fireball. As such, I think any spell that allows a saving throw vs Spell or Staff/Rod/Wand would fall under the protection of Improved Evasion, which includes just about all non-Death/Negative Energy spells.) And don't forget you're still wearing that Cowl of Mind Warding, and a Greater Belt of Guiding Light so you're immune to all Mind-Affecting and Death/Negative energy spells too. ;)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,838
    edited August 2020
    I think Imprisonment is the Bhaalspawn's ultimate trump card. There's no save and it bypasses spell resistance. The drawbacks are that it has a casting time of 9, it's a touch-range spell, and it will still get absorbed by Spell Mantles. Still, an arcane caster Hero can defeat an arcane caster Bhaalspawn easily because all of NWN's spells have the same rather short casting time and Haste allows 2 spells to be cast per round. Spells cast while Hasted or when using (Automatic) Quicken Spell have a casting time comparable to speed factor 2 in Baldur's Gate.

    The Hero can cast Time Stop twice as fast as the Bhaalspawn attempting to cast a speed factor 9 spell even with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of power equipped. By making use of an exploit with Time Stop, the Hero can gain instantly-casting spells and simulate Improved Alacrity immediately after casting Time Stop (as long as the game is allowed to be paused). Then the Hero just has to use Lesser/Greater Spell Breach to take out Spell Shield, then Mordenkainen's Disjunction to strip everything else and lower any potential magic resistance, followed by either death magic or Bigby's Forceful Hand -> Greater Ruin/Hellball/Flesh to Stone to get past the Cloak of Mirroring.

    Even without that exploit, the Hero can still cast Time Stop, cast a few spells, then cast Time Stop again before the Bhaalspawn can finish Imprisonment or a Time Stop of their own despite wearing the casting-speed-boosting equipment.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,811
    Zaxares wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    yeah can't you also use project images and such to cast entire spell books worth of spells? does that exploit or whatever it was still exist? ( in my 20+ years i've played bg2 i may have used PI once just to try it out, and after i heard how exploity it was i never attempted to use it again )

    also if that exploit is still true, the true seeing spell/ability of the HoN wouldn't matter since true seeing in that game doesnt actually dispel illusions, it just makes it so the hero can see through them, so by matter of project image; game over HoN

    The HoN could still largely neuter such spell damage via two items though: a Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity (you are completely immune to fire, cold, lightning, acid and sonic damage), and a Ring of Improved Evasion (if you are allowed a Reflex save vs the spell for half damage, you take no damage on a successful save. 2nd Ed spells don't really have Reflex saves, so we can only mirror it to similar spells like Fireball. As such, I think any spell that allows a saving throw vs Spell or Staff/Rod/Wand would fall under the protection of Improved Evasion, which includes just about all non-Death/Negative Energy spells.) And don't forget you're still wearing that Cowl of Mind Warding, and a Greater Belt of Guiding Light so you're immune to all Mind-Affecting and Death/Negative energy spells too. ;)

    abidalzim's horrid wilting gets through both since its magical damage and it would require a fort save, plus i have never actually found a ring of universal immunity in HotU or a ring of improved evasion, do they actually exist in game?
    Flashburn wrote: »
    I think Imprisonment is the Bhaalspawn's ultimate trump card. There's no save and it bypasses spell resistance. The drawbacks are that it has a casting time of 9, it's a touch-range spell, and it will still get absorbed by Spell Mantles. Still, an arcane caster Hero can defeat an arcane caster Bhaalspawn easily because all of NWN's spells have the same rather short casting time and Haste allows 2 spells to be cast per round. Spells cast while Hasted or when using (Automatic) Quicken Spell have a casting time comparable to speed factor 2 in Baldur's Gate.

    The Hero can cast Time Stop twice as fast as the Bhaalspawn attempting to cast a speed factor 9 spell even with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of power equipped. By making use of an exploit with Time Stop, the Hero can gain instantly-casting spells and simulate Improved Alacrity immediately after casting Time Stop (as long as the game is allowed to be paused). Then the Hero just has to use Lesser/Greater Spell Breach to take out Spell Shield, then Mordenkainen's Disjunction to strip everything else and lower any potential magic resistance, followed by either death magic or Bigby's Forceful Hand -> Greater Ruin/Hellball/Flesh to Stone to get past the Cloak of Mirroring.

    Even without that exploit, the Hero can still cast Time Stop, cast a few spells, then cast Time Stop again before the Bhaalspawn can finish Imprisonment or a Time Stop of their own despite wearing the casting-speed-boosting equipment.

    spell immunity; abjuration will make you immune to; the spell breaches and mordenkainen's disjunction

    and is casting hasted spells that much faster? casting a level 9 mage spell with the robe of vecna and amulet of power makes the casting time 4, which is less than half a round for casting time which is pretty quick, i thought that haste only makes it so you can start casting spells faster after you have just casted a spell, does it actually improve casting speed as well?

    i would think that it would really have to come down to who scored better on the initiative roll for who's timestop would go off first, and with ToB wish, in theory a bhaalspawn caster could be in timestop limbo for an eternity casting off multiple spell books at once, and once that timestop is done, it's pretty much game over for the hero of NWN

  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,838
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    Flashburn wrote: »
    I think Imprisonment is the Bhaalspawn's ultimate trump card. There's no save and it bypasses spell resistance. The drawbacks are that it has a casting time of 9, it's a touch-range spell, and it will still get absorbed by Spell Mantles. Still, an arcane caster Hero can defeat an arcane caster Bhaalspawn easily because all of NWN's spells have the same rather short casting time and Haste allows 2 spells to be cast per round. Spells cast while Hasted or when using (Automatic) Quicken Spell have a casting time comparable to speed factor 2 in Baldur's Gate.

    The Hero can cast Time Stop twice as fast as the Bhaalspawn attempting to cast a speed factor 9 spell even with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of power equipped. By making use of an exploit with Time Stop, the Hero can gain instantly-casting spells and simulate Improved Alacrity immediately after casting Time Stop (as long as the game is allowed to be paused). Then the Hero just has to use Lesser/Greater Spell Breach to take out Spell Shield, then Mordenkainen's Disjunction to strip everything else and lower any potential magic resistance, followed by either death magic or Bigby's Forceful Hand -> Greater Ruin/Hellball/Flesh to Stone to get past the Cloak of Mirroring.

    Even without that exploit, the Hero can still cast Time Stop, cast a few spells, then cast Time Stop again before the Bhaalspawn can finish Imprisonment or a Time Stop of their own despite wearing the casting-speed-boosting equipment.

    spell immunity; abjuration will make you immune to; the spell breaches and mordenkainen's disjunction

    and is casting hasted spells that much faster? casting a level 9 mage spell with the robe of vecna and amulet of power makes the casting time 4, which is less than half a round for casting time which is pretty quick, i thought that haste only makes it so you can start casting spells faster after you have just casted a spell, does it actually improve casting speed as well?

    The Spell Breach line of spells are nearly identical to Breach from BG except they can remove spell protections as well, but they're limited in how many they can remove per cast (2 for Lesser, 4 for Greater, 6 for Mord's). SI: Abjuration does not protect against anti-magic attacks like Breach. The breach aspect of Mordenkainen's Disjunction occurs first when casting it, then it attempts to dispel everything else. An argument could be made that SI: Abjuration could protect against it anyway since it also performs a dispel, so if that were the case, you could just substitute another Greater Spell Breach to take it out after removing the Spell Shield.

    Haste does nothing to spellcasting in BG, but in NWN1, it allows the casting of 2 spells per round because it also cuts spellcasting time in half (in NWN2 it does nothing to spellcasting time). I recorded some footage in NWN and BG and compared the two:
    - In NWN1 while Hasted, it takes 1.268 seconds to cast a spell from when the combat log says the character is casting a spell to the instant the spell comes into existence, denoted by a buff icon near your portrait (if casting a buff). There's a bit of time where the character cannot move or take any actions after finishing the spell, so casting two spells in a row takes 4.304 seconds. In Time Stop's case, time does not actually stop until after exactly 2 seconds, from the start of casting to the culmination of the spell.
    - In BG, casting a speed factor 9 spell with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power equipped from the moment the character begins the spellcasting animation to when the game auto-pauses upon spell completion is 2.603 seconds.

    Maybe the Hero can't cast Time Stop twice as fast like I said, but still faster than the Bhaalspawn when it comes to certain spells.

    sarevok57
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,262
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    abidalzim's horrid wilting gets through both since its magical damage and it would require a fort save, plus i have never actually found a ring of universal immunity in HotU or a ring of improved evasion, do they actually exist in game?

    Yeah, Horrid Wilting would be one of the few direct damage spells the Bhaalspawn could reliably count on to deal damage to the HoN, since it has a mirror spell in 3rd Ed which uses Fort saves. Depending on who exactly the Bhaalspawn faces off against though, it still might not amount to much. I made the case in an earlier post that I think a martial HoN is WAY more dangerous, and such a character would certainly have the Fort saves and the massive HP pool to absorb quite a few Horrid Wilting spells and keep going. (Or just chug down a Potion of Heal and get all of his hundreds of HP back instanteously. ;) )

    I don't believe the Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity actually exists IN HotU, but it IS part of the game's base item template. Under the ground rules assumptions I laid out for the match way back in my first reply, I said that I would assume that each character has access to any item that exists in the game's base files, but excluding any kind of custom items created by players. This was done so that both characters could have access to items that otherwise might be excluded by the circumstances of their playthrough (such as say, a Good PC not having access to the Robe of Vecna for its improved casting time to forestall any "a good PC wouldn't use that!" arguments.)

    I'm quite sure that I found a Ring of Improved Evasion during my HotU playthrough though (and I gave it to Aribeth, as I recall, since she has pretty insane saves thanks to her class levels.)
    Flashburn wrote: »
    The Spell Breach line of spells are nearly identical to Breach from BG except they can remove spell protections as well, but they're limited in how many they can remove per cast (2 for Lesser, 4 for Greater, 6 for Mord's). SI: Abjuration does not protect against anti-magic attacks like Breach. The breach aspect of Mordenkainen's Disjunction occurs first when casting it, then it attempts to dispel everything else. An argument could be made that SI: Abjuration could protect against it anyway since it also performs a dispel, so if that were the case, you could just substitute another Greater Spell Breach to take it out after removing the Spell Shield.

    As Flashburn mentions, the Spell Breach spells et. al. seem to be similar to the line of Breach/Ray of Reversal etc. spells from BG in that they seem to ignore Spell Resistance and other magical protections specifically designed to stop spell assaults. In NWN, such spells will ignore Spell Mantle and similar spells.

    Flashburn actually came to the same conclusion I did. :) The best trump card for the Bhaalspawn would be in using Imprisonment for an insta-win vs the HoN, perhaps by getting Time Stop or using other defensive spells to protect himself in the interim. (This also is another big advantage a spellcaster HoN has over a spellcaster Bhaalspawn, because in 2nd Ed even the merest damage interrupts your spellcasting, but the HoN can potentially ignore it and keep going due to Concentration checks. A level 40 spellcaster HoN would probably have a Concentration check reaching into the 50's or more, meaning that any damage would need to exceed the vicinity of 80+ damage before they could reliably interrupt the HoN's spells.)

  • lollerslollers Member Posts: 155
    I had a weird dream last night that "hero of neverwinter" was one of the transformation forms possible with the slayer innate ability.

    semiticgoddess
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,385
    edited August 2020
    All Base items, does that make sense?

    What if you equipped the godbow on the bhaalspawn? Isn't that an always hit-instakill item?
    And let the bhaalspawn use imoens belt for minhp?

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,262
    lroumen wrote: »
    All Base items, does that make sense?

    What if you equipped the godbow on the bhaalspawn? Isn't that an always hit-instakill item?
    And let the bhaalspawn use imoens belt for minhp?

    I would think that dev cheat items would naturally be excluded. ;) I believe that NWN also has one. I forget the exact name, something like "Stick of Doom"? I vaguely recall running across it in the item files. It's something like a +20 weapon that does 10d6 of every single elemental damage type (including Divine, Magical, Positive and Negative energy bonuses) and grants immunity to every single damage type, status effect and makes you immune to all spells of level 1 - 9.

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