Houses or abandoned caves in the wilderness could also be called safe places no?
7 out of 10 enemies or 1 skip per part? I could live (or die) with both!
But why only 10 out of 11 curses? Personally i want all of them... what about you @Grond0?
- Houses and caves would be fine.
- I can make it one skip per part.
- You can take all of them, but the idea of one pass was to make the challenge more replayable and customizable. Just like you can choose a different race and class at character creation, you'd be able to choose a different "privilege" for each run.
Yeah, i got your idea @Blackraven giving the player a little bit of freedom. For the disbelievers amongst us there is still the option to take all of the curses!
One skip per part sounds reasonable. I will add the new challenge to the OP soon as well as changing the title. Oh, not to forget: Good hunting @Blackraven, F/T would have been one of my first choices too!
I've just been rolling up a character. That was intended to be a shadowdancer dualling to fighter and I'd just got an exceptional 95 roll - only to realize I'd selected a standard thief . A bit more rolling and I settled for a 90 and was just looking through the options for the curses. Allowing charms would make BG1 far quicker and easier, but I didn't really fancy that route and was certainly considering taking all of them . However, @Blackraven makes a good point and I think I'll settle for being a follower of Mystra - after all why not avoid 2 minutes work to install the save fix and then spend hours at a time fighting kobolds and hobgoblins ...
Yeah, i got your idea @Blackraven giving the player a little bit of freedom. For the disbelievers amongst us there is still the option to take all of the curses!
Yes, and also, it can prevent that a specific class or kit is hit disproportionately hard by this challenge. Even with a Cleric/Ranger for example, I've relied heavily on skeleton warriors. For a single-class Cleric Animate Dead is probably even more important.
One skip per part sounds reasonable. I will add the new challenge to the OP soon as well as changing the title. Oh, not to forget: Good hunting @Blackraven, F/T would have been one of my first choices too!
Yeah, i got your idea @Blackraven giving the player a little bit of freedom. For the disbelievers amongst us there is still the option to take all of the curses!
Yes, and also, it can prevent that a specific class or kit is hit disproportionately hard by this challenge. Even with a Cleric/Ranger for example, I've relied heavily on skeleton warriors. For a single-class Cleric Animate Dead is probably even more important.
My assumption was the limit to a single summon spell meant you would only get one skeleton at a time, so that would be somewhat less helpful than would otherwise have been the case. Were you thinking though you could have multiple spells of the same type active (though using all spells at once like that would also be a problem with the restriction on resting)?
Yeah... only one summon can be active at the time @Grond0... if a group is called... for instance the beetles for Druids ... then all must die before a new summon spell can be casted. Theoretically we might allow to cast a new summon if the old one dies immediately even though this would force us to use CTRL+Y.
Shadowdancer/Fighter i like a lot but maybe i should give my good old Druid a chance!
My assumption was the limit to a single summon spell meant you would only get one skeleton at a time, so that would be somewhat less helpful than would otherwise have been the case. Were you thinking though you could have multiple spells of the same type active (though using all spells at once like that would also be a problem with the restriction on resting)?
That was my assumption too. My point was that in a system where one curse can be lifted, a Cleric can have multiple skeleton warriors summoned instead of one at a time if the player chooses to lift Malar's curse. I meant that as an example of how the right to lift one curse can sustain certain classes or kits and their most obvious playstyles, such as a summoner priest. What I like about this challenge is that it's very hard and yet more or less inclusive of the game's different classes, unlike for example the wizard slayer or poverty challenges which clearly favor specific kits and classes like the sorcerer, druid, bounty hunter over others.
Quick question: I have a gnoll beating up Drizzt with its bare hands (paws?). It's been hours now and I've been away from the game most of the time. I can still hear Drizzt produce his moan when critted. Does that mean he's still conscious?
I had kind of assumed he'd make no sound when unconscious, but if he does, then keeping track of the combat log is more important than I thought....
Edit: solved. He's unconscious now, let's see if Helani can fell him.
After some thinking i decided to follow @Grond0 rolling a Shadowdancer. It took me one hour to finally get a fine roll of 96. At level 6 she will dual class to a Cleric, something i have done only once when trying the poverty challenge - lets see how hard this one gets in comparison. Karla is also a follower of Mystra to soften saving throws for her nasty spells!
I also updated the OP including the Cataclysm-Challenge, a new thread title as well as all new challengers!
Quick question: I have a gnoll beating up Drizzt with its bare hands (paws?). It's been hours now and I've been away from the game most of the time. I can still hear Drizzt produce his moan when critted. Does that mean he's still conscious?
I had kind of assumed he'd make no sound when unconscious, but if he does, then keeping track of the combat log is more important than I thought....
I haven't had the sound on when playing Baldur's Gate for about a dozen years, so I don't know I'm afraid. Why not just turn on the combat log though? Thinking about it, if he moans when hit, he should be constantly moaning when unconscious as the gnoll gets an automatic hit every time.
If a weapon breaks early it certainly can take hours to knock him unconscious (and that's for me playing at 60 fps - not sure if you're doing that). I've just set a gnoll onto Drizzt and am hoping it breaks a weapon at the first attempt to avoid having to retreat off the map and risk extra area transitions.
Edit: checking the game, the gnoll has indeed broken a weapon early on, so I'll go and watch a film or something while I'm waiting .
Yeah, @Grond0 is right... if Drizzt is unconscious he will get hit all the time! Same story here... two Gnolls at Drizzt... both now with broken weapons... one hour already passed but soon he should go down. Hopefully!
Thanks @Grond0 and @Harpagornis for your insights. Drizzt has been put out of his misery. Helani is level 3/4 and has gained 24 HPs out of a possible 29 (if my calculations are correct), for a total of 37. Armor and scimitars have been secured.
Not allowed to rest in the wilderness a highly fatigued Helani is now on the way back to Beregost. She's in an ambush area to be more precise... Two worgs. She's been running around a bit, trying to land an occasional hit and retreating she's also evaded a hit from one of the worgs that attacked faster than she did. So here's my next question: Does Mask's curse entail a fight to the death in every ambush? Or does it suffice to fight for a number of rounds and leave after that (like one would do in a normal hopeless battle)?
Yeah, the challenge is really unforgiving even though Karla managed to kill Drizzt after two hours of waiting, reached level 5 jumping up to 36 HP while also traveling to Nashkel without any ambush, sold some stuff to get 9k gold and rested at the inn without being spotted by Neira. Lets hope there is no nasty ambush!
Well, I like the clarity of the rule the way you put it: no retreat is no retreat. A more lenient rule could be harder to apply. When is a situation sufficiently hopeless for a retreat to be warranted?
There is something to say for a curse requiring that Charname defends themselves, i.e. fights (not just hides), for a number of rounds. Let's say five rounds. Ambushes remain extremely dangerous that way, without making survival dependent on sheer luck, but also on the player's skill. Also, five rounds is fairly easy to monitor, and not as subjective as a "hopeless" situation.
What say you? I'd also like to know what @Grond0 thinks.
@Blackraven I agree it's a pretty harsh rule. The major reason I thought a shadowdancer was a good starter kit is because it's one of the few classes that has a realistic chance of progressing through ambushes in this challenge without spending enormous amounts of time killing melee opponents or getting cut down by archers.
Having started my character I'll continue with the current version of the rule for at least this run, but I don't object to changing it. You could for instance relax things a bit by making it an affair of honor. There used to be a bit of a tradition in some armed forces that, before a force could retreat or surrender, they had to do at least one attack. That would be a bit too easy, but what about saying that you have to actually draw blood from at least one opponent before you can retreat? That should mean either exposing yourself to danger in some cases, or using up resources that you might want to keep for more meaningful purposes.
Wisp has killed Drizzt and travelled on to Nashkel without having been ambushed. He's levelled up from L1 to L5 there, getting a disappointing extra 20 HPs for the 4 levels.
what about saying that you have to actually draw blood from at least one opponent before you can retreat? That should mean either exposing yourself to danger in some cases, or using up resources that you might want to keep for more meaningful purposes.
Great! It still means Helani is retired since she failed to hit either of the worgs. But a requirement to draw blood sounds perfect to me. (I was thinking no wonder both of you both started with a Shadowdancer hehe.)
@Blackraven@Grond0: Yeah, the draw blood idea regarding ambushes sounds cool... but in both ways... so we have to draw blood from our enemies while also giving away some of our own to please Mask!
I got ambushed by seven Xvarts when traveling to Gullykin and it took me half an hour to take down two of them as Karla needs to roll a crit to touch them - quite funny but the screams of the Xvarts will follow me into my dreams tonight... Iiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeee!
Before Karla traveled to the carnival where she bought the PfP scroll but not bothering with Vitiare. Traveling back to Beregost was pumping lots of adrenaline into the blood but..... holy cow... no ambush! As it was nighttime she visited the temple, spent some money to boost here reputation up again before resting at a nearby inn gaining Cure Light Wounds as her first power.
From Beregost Karla traveled a bit south to find the Hobgoblin who had stolen the precious Boots of Stealth from Zhurlong. As fighting the group was no option she lured them to the Flaming Fist Guards in the south who took them down one after another while Karla was hiding behind a tree like a shadow. The beating took some time but with her new boots she quickly moved on.
The Battle Horrors at Durlags Tower are her next target!
Mask: Retreats from ambushes are only possible after drawing blood from at least one enemy while also losing some of your own
There is another reason to change the Mask curse: If you take too long killing all ambushers new ones will arrive after some time turning the whole fight into a neverending nightmare!
Karla retreated after killing two Xvarts while also getting hit once before a group of Hobgoblins joined the party!
I decided to take a risk by dragging battle horrors off the path at Durlag's Tower to prepare for later. That didn't work well though. Wisp successfully dragged them into the Tower, but they wouldn't follow him between floors - while a ghast from the bottom floor followed him onto the entrance level despite him being in stealth before transiting. He dragged everything out of view of the entrance, though I think they might relocate before he could come back again.
That question became moot though immediately afterwards. I made the mistake of not coming out of stealth before travelling away from Durlag's - meaning my stealth aura was clouded when a first ambush of the run occurred. I was a fraction slow to realize I needed to use the slightly slower shadow step instead and the kobolds needed no second invitation to shoot Wisp down.
With regard to the Mask curse i think that it might be enough to draw enemy blood cause think about facing a Lesser Basilisk who refuses to attack you by physical means. Even a Ghast could be realy nasty if you lack any protection against paralyzation. What do you think @Blackraven and @Grond0?
Karla faced the Battle Horrors at Durlags Tower which are easy kills for a Shadowdancer - at least if you have some patience. Arriving at night made the stabbing easy while waiting for 19 or 20 rolls. One got killed after 6 ingame hours, the other one followed "only" 7 hours later when the sun was rising. Having played the Shadowdancer a lot in the last weeks the backstabbing and hiding was nearly an automatic so the Horrors did not manage to get in a single attack. The price for all this pain: Level 6!
@Grond0, ouch that's rough indeed! Archer ambushes will remain a threat for quite some time I think... @Harpagornis, you're making good progress though! I think you've now dualled your Shadowdancer?
I've made a restart with Helani this morning, and she's already made it worthwhile. Did all the Candlekeep stuff except Shank and Carbos. Her first incarnation received the full reward from Hull but her current self didn't. (I found that interesting as I was sure 18 CHA was needed for that.)
She traveled to Beregost, rested, and went straight to the Fisherman's Lake area. Again a gnoll broke its weapon allowing Helani to steal the kill and the loot. She traveled to Nashkel without getting ambushed this time, bought the green scroll of PfPetrification at the Carnival and left for Mutamin's garden. She didn't use the scroll there but relied on stealth instead and on Korax to kill the basilisks. She would contribute with her bow and arrows as soon as Korax paralyzed each basilisk. This approach turned out to be inefficient because Korax switched sides before having killed Mutamin (and before having paralyzed the last two basilisks). I had Helani shoot from stealth a few times but Mutamin's HPs and AC made that too tedious a chore.
She decided to put her scroll of PfPetrification to good use at Durlag's Tower. She traveled back to Beregost to rest, but got waylaid by ... a lesser basilisk.
Two saves vs polymorph and a crit! Phew, may Tymora likes Helani after all. I wholeheartedly agree with you @Harpagornis that it should be enough to draw enemy blood.
On her way to Durlag's Tower another ambush followed. This is her landing a hit before the gibberlings can close in on her.
With 6 hours of protection from her scroll and with nightly backstabs she dispatched the basilisks there without much difficulty. Leaving the tower was dicier, as she triggered the repeating trap and saved against its stun effect within sight of the ghast.
She did Kirinhale's quest and she tried to backstab one of the battle horrors. She had lured it inside. But again, it's just such a hassle and Helani ain't no Shadowdancer who can hide in plain sight. She'll look for other easier sources of XP first.
Edit: I wanted to comment on HPs as well. Currently at level 5/6, she's sitting on 57 HPS. Her minimum could have been 37, her max 70, so she's doing ok I'd say.
Good stuff @Harpagornis! I had thought about the lesser basilisk and, in my current run, am carrying around a potion of mirrored eyes in a quickslot with the intention of using that and then getting up in its face and hoping to encourage it to switch to melee. I think that allowing a straight run from anything is a bit too much relaxation, but you could say that you just have to be attacked (by any means) before you can run. That would mean staying safe through being permanently equipped with immunity items (like the ring of free action), paying close attention to what you put in quickslots and/or lifting Tempus' curse to allow you to select some protection from your inventory.
A new Wisp has been making pretty good progress this morning after his predecessor's demise ...
Starting again, I've installed the saving throw fix - allowing Wisp to abandon Mystra and follow Selune. Apart from anything else that will allow him more scope to operate in the darkness when his stealth ability is so much more reliable.
Things looked a bit dodgy when some dogs triggered an ambush on the first transition, but fortunately Wisp was now entitled to retreat. He got lucky by finding a critical with his first shot, but still had to be blooded himself. The bug on level 1 protection means he would have died if the dog had done exactly 8 damage, so he kept his sling equipped to try and ensure that any attack would do more than that.
This time I successfully used the Flaming Fist to greatly speed up getting Zhurlong's boots and they also helped out with Mirianne's letter. Rather than go after Drizzt, Wisp then headed north. The Ring of Wizardry was cashed in, some fishermen killed and Tenya's bowl returned and a bit of sneaking in the ankheg nest provided some sad news for Farmer Brun. Ulgoth's Beard was the main purpose of the journey and he bought the +3 staff there in order to boost attacking potential.
Successfully back in Beregost, Wisp killed Algernon (allowing him to get 20 charisma even though charm isn't an option). In retrospect, doing that before and using the temple to cheaply boost reputation back a bit would have been more cost effective when purchasing at Ulgoth's Beard.
Moving down to Nashkel, Wisp rested to get LMD and bought the PfP scroll. He also took his 3 levels available, getting a nice 21 out of 24 HPs there.
On the way to Durlag's he was ambushed by hobgoblin archers - an immediate attempt at stealth failed and I realised I'd actually forgotten to rest after writing the note saying that Wisp had done so (not the first time I've done that by a long streak . That meant no LMD for easy damage and no shadowstep ability to get away. The Cloak of Displacement meant only one of the initial shots landed and Wisp managed to disappear before the next volley. He still needed to do some damage though and hadn't bothered attacking Imoen to get her MM wand, so had no easy way to do that. It was a nervous business, while he missed with 4 stealth attacks (receiving only one stray arrow in response), but the 5th one struck home and he skedaddled immediately.
Travelling once more, hobgoblins again sprang an ambush, but this time his special abilities meant there was no real danger.
At Durlag's Tower Wisp used the Greenstone Amulet to protect against stun while ghasts were wandering about. That got him onto the roof and he rested quite a few times to get back the 16 HPs lost. Then he used the PfP scroll to attack the greater basilisks. XP had been managed so he was on 6,002 at that point. He only needed a 16 to hit the first basilisk, when attacking from stealth, but that still took him nearly 3 hours. The level from that not only improved THAC0 and improved stealth so he would only suffer critical failures in the dark, but also gave him a backstab multiplier - so he was able to kill the second greater basilisk in only an hour or so and level up before dualling to fighter.
I had intended to use scimitars as a fighter and bring along fire protection scrolls to get at the +2 one on the roof. However, with time on the PFP scroll running short and no way to safely get that scimitar I decided to waste the existing proficiency points and specialize once more in staff. Immediately glugging a cloud giant strength potion, Wisp could still hit with a 16 and hit hard when he did - and it took less than another hour (still leaving at least an hour unexpired on the scroll) to kill the greater basilisk for 2 levels and the lesser one for another.
Another charge of the greenstone amulet let him back through the trap and run upstairs to get the tome. He also couldn't resist dodging the swarming ghasts while doing Kirinhale's quest for another cool 4,000 XP. Thankfully there was no ambush on the way back to Beregost.
At the Lake area some running back and forth eventually set up a single gnoll to attack Drizzt. Checking on progress after only 10 minutes I noticed that it had broken its weapon early again, so there'll be a long wait now while it puts the boot in. I wonder if it's just coincidence that breakage suddenly seems easy or if whatever the effect was that made the weapons of those gnolls so much more durable than other iron weapons has been affected by the latest SCS version ...
Karla prepared for Mutamins Garden getting lots of bullet slings as well as a Potion of Mirrored Eyes in case of some Basilisk ambush. I agree with @Grond0 that absorbing at least one attack... regardless if its physical or magical or some kind of gaze attack... should be mandatory, so we always have to be prepared for all the dangers that are waiting out there.
Arriving at the basiliks... this time without any ambush... Karla first checked the area for random spawns while also marking the two first basilisk spots before dualing to Cleric, switching her outfit and luring Korax south. Until then everything was perfectly prepared but even without the saving fix the whole beating took some time and even though Mutamin himself went down pretty quickly Karla missed three lesser ones as Korax turned hostile far too early. With only 22,2k XP she had to fall back without any spells ready cause resting is not allowed. Hitting the travel button showed seconds later.... no ambush... puh!
After resting and preparing spells... mainly Sanctuary, Hold Person, Silence and Animate Dead... Karla traveled back to Durlags Tower without any ambush, lured the Ghast away, casted Sanctuary and got safely paralyzed by the trap. On the roof she summoned a skeleton while waiting in the background saving her PfP scroll for another day. The beating took about two hours with the skeleton having a 35% chance to hit the greater ones. With the floor cleared and level 6 reached Klara rested and memorized Protection from Fire grabbing the Scimitar +2 without getting burned by the Fireball.
On her way out the lesser basilisk got crushed by another skeleton while the trap got absorbed again. After some quick talking and walking Kirinhale rewarded her with another 4k XP. On her travel back to Beregost Karla got ambushed by gibberlings quickly using Sanctuary for a retreat and then storming the group of eight with one skeleton quickly hurting one of them while evading one strike.
Shoal was quick work for another skeleton and after giving his ring back to Mad Arcand Karla reached level 7 regaining her Shadowdancer abilities while also jumping to 50 HP (58 HP would be max). Her next steps should be Ulgoths Beard and some reputation pushing!
With her Shadowdancer abilities back things speeded up. Algernon, Bentan und Dushai got killed... while Meilum was held and skelt down as well as the Ogre Thief and poor Tarnesh. Blood Rage on Skeletons is such a sweet combo! In Ulgoths Beard and having pushed her reputation up a bit she bought the Staff +3 as well as the Greenstone Amulet before starting the reputation farm going all along from the north to the south. Greywolf also got held and skelt with ease making good use of Mystra´s boon!
Only once traveling from Nashkel west into the wilderness Karla got ambushed by an Ogre Mage but could stealth and retreat to summon a skeleton while also managing to silence the Ogre. Some stabs later he was dead. Another ambush awaited her in the east... Xvarts again. This time she stabbed one, evaded two strikes and quickly retreated.
Fate smiled upon Karla as she could safely return Samuel to the FAI while sneaking through the Ankheg cave is an easy task for a Shadowdancer. Finally returning to Bergost again she delivered Colquetel´s amulet back while the reputation bar hit 20. Time for buying the Shadow Armor which pushes her stealth skills to 115/120 – which should be enough for our needs.
After a rough start things are going much smoother once the dual is complete and some stuff gathered. Looks like Karla is ready to face the Nashkel Mines!
Helani has fallen through silliness on my behalf. Surely due to nothing but my imagination or just a lack of concentration I had the vague and clearly mistaken notion that Shoal wouldn't kill solo Charnames. Well she does, if they fall unconscious after her first kiss.
I was playing rather absentmindedly anyway: failed to donate to temples at the right time, slew one flesh golem from Sorcerous Sundries but then instead of going after the other I clicked on Thalantyr to talk to him, there was the aforementioned stun trap in Durlag's Tower...
Anyway I am still very enthusiastic about this challenge, and I think I'll go for a dual-class of some type as well, just like you @Harpagornis and @Grond0. I hope to be back soon.
Hope to see a new character soon @Blackraven. Wisp is still going, but I keep having alternating thoughts along the following lines:
- I should restart him after properly planning his early campaigns and trying to avoid mistakes made this time.
- It's hard enough getting this far and I should stop being so perfectionist and persevere with his current run since that's perfectly viable .
Perhaps if you're starting again, that might nudge me in that direction ...
Incidentally, as Harpagornis is running a dual to cleric and I'm doing a fighter, it might be interesting to see what you could do if dualling to a mage .
Yeah, the start is some kind of bottleneck in this challenge but with proper planning and keeping focus on the game it should be quite doable.
Karla vs Mulahey: Stealthing through the mines was easy so once arriving Mulahey he got silenced and sliced down by one enraged Skel without him being able to call for help.
Karla vs Nimbul: Again Silence plus Rage Skel for a clean kill.
Karla vs Tranzig: Even without silence he had no chance and was skelt down quickly.
Karla vs Lamalha: Quick stealth before the talking triggered Karla retreated and summoned one raging Skel that took them down one after another before Hold Person catched them all.
Karla vs Bandit Camp: Thanks to Shadow Step Karla moved in and out unseen grabbing the documents. Job done!
Oh, i hope you will be back soon @Blackraven! Are you rolling another Shadowdancer or trying out something new next time @Grond0?
Comments
- Houses and caves would be fine.
- I can make it one skip per part.
- You can take all of them, but the idea of one pass was to make the challenge more replayable and customizable. Just like you can choose a different race and class at character creation, you'd be able to choose a different "privilege" for each run.
One skip per part sounds reasonable. I will add the new challenge to the OP soon as well as changing the title. Oh, not to forget: Good hunting @Blackraven, F/T would have been one of my first choices too!
Yes, and also, it can prevent that a specific class or kit is hit disproportionately hard by this challenge. Even with a Cleric/Ranger for example, I've relied heavily on skeleton warriors. For a single-class Cleric Animate Dead is probably even more important.
Great, and thank you!
@Grond0, best of luck!
My assumption was the limit to a single summon spell meant you would only get one skeleton at a time, so that would be somewhat less helpful than would otherwise have been the case. Were you thinking though you could have multiple spells of the same type active (though using all spells at once like that would also be a problem with the restriction on resting)?
Shadowdancer/Fighter i like a lot but maybe i should give my good old Druid a chance!
That was my assumption too. My point was that in a system where one curse can be lifted, a Cleric can have multiple skeleton warriors summoned instead of one at a time if the player chooses to lift Malar's curse. I meant that as an example of how the right to lift one curse can sustain certain classes or kits and their most obvious playstyles, such as a summoner priest. What I like about this challenge is that it's very hard and yet more or less inclusive of the game's different classes, unlike for example the wizard slayer or poverty challenges which clearly favor specific kits and classes like the sorcerer, druid, bounty hunter over others.
I had kind of assumed he'd make no sound when unconscious, but if he does, then keeping track of the combat log is more important than I thought....
Edit: solved. He's unconscious now, let's see if Helani can fell him.
I also updated the OP including the Cataclysm-Challenge, a new thread title as well as all new challengers!
I haven't had the sound on when playing Baldur's Gate for about a dozen years, so I don't know I'm afraid. Why not just turn on the combat log though? Thinking about it, if he moans when hit, he should be constantly moaning when unconscious as the gnoll gets an automatic hit every time.
If a weapon breaks early it certainly can take hours to knock him unconscious (and that's for me playing at 60 fps - not sure if you're doing that). I've just set a gnoll onto Drizzt and am hoping it breaks a weapon at the first attempt to avoid having to retreat off the map and risk extra area transitions.
Edit: checking the game, the gnoll has indeed broken a weapon early on, so I'll go and watch a film or something while I'm waiting
Not allowed to rest in the wilderness a highly fatigued Helani is now on the way back to Beregost. She's in an ambush area to be more precise...
Yeah, the challenge is really unforgiving even though Karla managed to kill Drizzt after two hours of waiting, reached level 5 jumping up to 36 HP while also traveling to Nashkel without any ambush, sold some stuff to get 9k gold and rested at the inn without being spotted by Neira. Lets hope there is no nasty ambush!
Understood. Helani injured herself in the fight against the worgs, but she reached Beregost, where she'll have to retire from this challenge.
Safe travels with Karla!
What do you think?
There is something to say for a curse requiring that Charname defends themselves, i.e. fights (not just hides), for a number of rounds. Let's say five rounds. Ambushes remain extremely dangerous that way, without making survival dependent on sheer luck, but also on the player's skill. Also, five rounds is fairly easy to monitor, and not as subjective as a "hopeless" situation.
What say you? I'd also like to know what @Grond0 thinks.
Having started my character I'll continue with the current version of the rule for at least this run, but I don't object to changing it. You could for instance relax things a bit by making it an affair of honor. There used to be a bit of a tradition in some armed forces that, before a force could retreat or surrender, they had to do at least one attack. That would be a bit too easy, but what about saying that you have to actually draw blood from at least one opponent before you can retreat? That should mean either exposing yourself to danger in some cases, or using up resources that you might want to keep for more meaningful purposes.
Great! It still means Helani is retired since she failed to hit either of the worgs. But a requirement to draw blood sounds perfect to me. (I was thinking no wonder both of you both started with a Shadowdancer hehe.)
I got ambushed by seven Xvarts when traveling to Gullykin and it took me half an hour to take down two of them as Karla needs to roll a crit to touch them - quite funny but the screams of the Xvarts will follow me into my dreams tonight... Iiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeee!
Before Karla traveled to the carnival where she bought the PfP scroll but not bothering with Vitiare. Traveling back to Beregost was pumping lots of adrenaline into the blood but..... holy cow... no ambush! As it was nighttime she visited the temple, spent some money to boost here reputation up again before resting at a nearby inn gaining Cure Light Wounds as her first power.
From Beregost Karla traveled a bit south to find the Hobgoblin who had stolen the precious Boots of Stealth from Zhurlong. As fighting the group was no option she lured them to the Flaming Fist Guards in the south who took them down one after another while Karla was hiding behind a tree like a shadow. The beating took some time but with her new boots she quickly moved on.
The Battle Horrors at Durlags Tower are her next target!
Mask: Retreats from ambushes are only possible after drawing blood from at least one enemy while also losing some of your own
There is another reason to change the Mask curse: If you take too long killing all ambushers new ones will arrive after some time turning the whole fight into a neverending nightmare!
Karla retreated after killing two Xvarts while also getting hit once before a group of Hobgoblins joined the party!
That question became moot though immediately afterwards. I made the mistake of not coming out of stealth before travelling away from Durlag's - meaning my stealth aura was clouded when a first ambush of the run occurred. I was a fraction slow to realize I needed to use the slightly slower shadow step instead and the kobolds needed no second invitation to shoot Wisp down.
With regard to the Mask curse i think that it might be enough to draw enemy blood cause think about facing a Lesser Basilisk who refuses to attack you by physical means. Even a Ghast could be realy nasty if you lack any protection against paralyzation. What do you think @Blackraven and @Grond0?
Karla faced the Battle Horrors at Durlags Tower which are easy kills for a Shadowdancer - at least if you have some patience. Arriving at night made the stabbing easy while waiting for 19 or 20 rolls. One got killed after 6 ingame hours, the other one followed "only" 7 hours later when the sun was rising. Having played the Shadowdancer a lot in the last weeks the backstabbing and hiding was nearly an automatic so the Horrors did not manage to get in a single attack. The price for all this pain: Level 6!
@Harpagornis, you're making good progress though! I think you've now dualled your Shadowdancer?
I've made a restart with Helani this morning, and she's already made it worthwhile. Did all the Candlekeep stuff except Shank and Carbos. Her first incarnation received the full reward from Hull but her current self didn't. (I found that interesting as I was sure 18 CHA was needed for that.)
She traveled to Beregost, rested, and went straight to the Fisherman's Lake area. Again a gnoll broke its weapon allowing Helani to steal the kill and the loot. She traveled to Nashkel without getting ambushed this time, bought the green scroll of PfPetrification at the Carnival and left for Mutamin's garden. She didn't use the scroll there but relied on stealth instead and on Korax to kill the basilisks. She would contribute with her bow and arrows as soon as Korax paralyzed each basilisk. This approach turned out to be inefficient because Korax switched sides before having killed Mutamin (and before having paralyzed the last two basilisks). I had Helani shoot from stealth a few times but Mutamin's HPs and AC made that too tedious a chore.
She decided to put her scroll of PfPetrification to good use at Durlag's Tower. She traveled back to Beregost to rest, but got waylaid by ... a lesser basilisk.
On her way to Durlag's Tower another ambush followed. This is her landing a hit before the gibberlings can close in on her.
She did Kirinhale's quest and she tried to backstab one of the battle horrors. She had lured it inside. But again, it's just such a hassle and Helani ain't no Shadowdancer who can hide in plain sight. She'll look for other easier sources of XP first.
Edit: I wanted to comment on HPs as well. Currently at level 5/6, she's sitting on 57 HPS. Her minimum could have been 37, her max 70, so she's doing ok I'd say.
A new Wisp has been making pretty good progress this morning after his predecessor's demise ...
Starting again, I've installed the saving throw fix - allowing Wisp to abandon Mystra and follow Selune. Apart from anything else that will allow him more scope to operate in the darkness when his stealth ability is so much more reliable.
Things looked a bit dodgy when some dogs triggered an ambush on the first transition, but fortunately Wisp was now entitled to retreat. He got lucky by finding a critical with his first shot, but still had to be blooded himself. The bug on level 1 protection means he would have died if the dog had done exactly 8 damage, so he kept his sling equipped to try and ensure that any attack would do more than that.
This time I successfully used the Flaming Fist to greatly speed up getting Zhurlong's boots and they also helped out with Mirianne's letter. Rather than go after Drizzt, Wisp then headed north. The Ring of Wizardry was cashed in, some fishermen killed and Tenya's bowl returned and a bit of sneaking in the ankheg nest provided some sad news for Farmer Brun. Ulgoth's Beard was the main purpose of the journey and he bought the +3 staff there in order to boost attacking potential.
Successfully back in Beregost, Wisp killed Algernon (allowing him to get 20 charisma even though charm isn't an option). In retrospect, doing that before and using the temple to cheaply boost reputation back a bit would have been more cost effective when purchasing at Ulgoth's Beard.
Moving down to Nashkel, Wisp rested to get LMD and bought the PfP scroll. He also took his 3 levels available, getting a nice 21 out of 24 HPs there.
On the way to Durlag's he was ambushed by hobgoblin archers - an immediate attempt at stealth failed and I realised I'd actually forgotten to rest after writing the note saying that Wisp had done so (not the first time I've done that by a long streak
Travelling once more, hobgoblins again sprang an ambush, but this time his special abilities meant there was no real danger.
At Durlag's Tower Wisp used the Greenstone Amulet to protect against stun while ghasts were wandering about. That got him onto the roof and he rested quite a few times to get back the 16 HPs lost. Then he used the PfP scroll to attack the greater basilisks. XP had been managed so he was on 6,002 at that point. He only needed a 16 to hit the first basilisk, when attacking from stealth, but that still took him nearly 3 hours. The level from that not only improved THAC0 and improved stealth so he would only suffer critical failures in the dark, but also gave him a backstab multiplier - so he was able to kill the second greater basilisk in only an hour or so and level up before dualling to fighter.
I had intended to use scimitars as a fighter and bring along fire protection scrolls to get at the +2 one on the roof. However, with time on the PFP scroll running short and no way to safely get that scimitar I decided to waste the existing proficiency points and specialize once more in staff. Immediately glugging a cloud giant strength potion, Wisp could still hit with a 16 and hit hard when he did - and it took less than another hour (still leaving at least an hour unexpired on the scroll) to kill the greater basilisk for 2 levels and the lesser one for another.
At the Lake area some running back and forth eventually set up a single gnoll to attack Drizzt. Checking on progress after only 10 minutes I noticed that it had broken its weapon early again, so there'll be a long wait now while it puts the boot in. I wonder if it's just coincidence that breakage suddenly seems easy or if whatever the effect was that made the weapons of those gnolls so much more durable than other iron weapons has been affected by the latest SCS version ...
Karla prepared for Mutamins Garden getting lots of bullet slings as well as a Potion of Mirrored Eyes in case of some Basilisk ambush. I agree with @Grond0 that absorbing at least one attack... regardless if its physical or magical or some kind of gaze attack... should be mandatory, so we always have to be prepared for all the dangers that are waiting out there.
Arriving at the basiliks... this time without any ambush... Karla first checked the area for random spawns while also marking the two first basilisk spots before dualing to Cleric, switching her outfit and luring Korax south. Until then everything was perfectly prepared but even without the saving fix the whole beating took some time and even though Mutamin himself went down pretty quickly Karla missed three lesser ones as Korax turned hostile far too early. With only 22,2k XP she had to fall back without any spells ready cause resting is not allowed. Hitting the travel button showed seconds later.... no ambush... puh!
After resting and preparing spells... mainly Sanctuary, Hold Person, Silence and Animate Dead... Karla traveled back to Durlags Tower without any ambush, lured the Ghast away, casted Sanctuary and got safely paralyzed by the trap. On the roof she summoned a skeleton while waiting in the background saving her PfP scroll for another day. The beating took about two hours with the skeleton having a 35% chance to hit the greater ones. With the floor cleared and level 6 reached Klara rested and memorized Protection from Fire grabbing the Scimitar +2 without getting burned by the Fireball.
On her way out the lesser basilisk got crushed by another skeleton while the trap got absorbed again. After some quick talking and walking Kirinhale rewarded her with another 4k XP. On her travel back to Beregost Karla got ambushed by gibberlings quickly using Sanctuary for a retreat and then storming the group of eight with one skeleton quickly hurting one of them while evading one strike.
Shoal was quick work for another skeleton and after giving his ring back to Mad Arcand Karla reached level 7 regaining her Shadowdancer abilities while also jumping to 50 HP (58 HP would be max). Her next steps should be Ulgoths Beard and some reputation pushing!
Only once traveling from Nashkel west into the wilderness Karla got ambushed by an Ogre Mage but could stealth and retreat to summon a skeleton while also managing to silence the Ogre. Some stabs later he was dead. Another ambush awaited her in the east... Xvarts again. This time she stabbed one, evaded two strikes and quickly retreated.
Fate smiled upon Karla as she could safely return Samuel to the FAI while sneaking through the Ankheg cave is an easy task for a Shadowdancer. Finally returning to Bergost again she delivered Colquetel´s amulet back while the reputation bar hit 20. Time for buying the Shadow Armor which pushes her stealth skills to 115/120 – which should be enough for our needs.
After a rough start things are going much smoother once the dual is complete and some stuff gathered. Looks like Karla is ready to face the Nashkel Mines!
I was playing rather absentmindedly anyway: failed to donate to temples at the right time, slew one flesh golem from Sorcerous Sundries but then instead of going after the other I clicked on Thalantyr to talk to him, there was the aforementioned stun trap in Durlag's Tower...
Anyway I am still very enthusiastic about this challenge, and I think I'll go for a dual-class of some type as well, just like you @Harpagornis and @Grond0. I hope to be back soon.
- I should restart him after properly planning his early campaigns and trying to avoid mistakes made this time.
- It's hard enough getting this far and I should stop being so perfectionist and persevere with his current run since that's perfectly viable
Perhaps if you're starting again, that might nudge me in that direction ...
Incidentally, as Harpagornis is running a dual to cleric and I'm doing a fighter, it might be interesting to see what you could do if dualling to a mage
Karla vs Mulahey: Stealthing through the mines was easy so once arriving Mulahey he got silenced and sliced down by one enraged Skel without him being able to call for help.
Karla vs Nimbul: Again Silence plus Rage Skel for a clean kill.
Karla vs Tranzig: Even without silence he had no chance and was skelt down quickly.
Karla vs Lamalha: Quick stealth before the talking triggered Karla retreated and summoned one raging Skel that took them down one after another before Hold Person catched them all.
Karla vs Bandit Camp: Thanks to Shadow Step Karla moved in and out unseen grabbing the documents. Job done!
Oh, i hope you will be back soon @Blackraven! Are you rolling another Shadowdancer or trying out something new next time @Grond0?