Yeah, i think we could handle it that way: If you enrage someone via talking so he starts attacking you then fighting back should be okay. Regarding Pick Pocketing i am not sure. What do you think @Grond0 and @Blackraven?
Like I said before, I'll accept anything. However, the nature of this challenge is to create additional difficulties within the game - and then find a way around them. I don't see anything in principle wrong with allowing thieves to use their special abilities to circumvent a restriction that other classes have to abide by (and as pickpocketing is generally the least used of the thief skills, it's quite nice to have an application for that). Of course, you may still wish to ban this particular use from the point of view of maintaining a more appropriate balance between classes ...
BtW: Are the specialst Mage kits affecting Wands regarding saving throws? ^^
You know, when someone asks a question like this, I just look it up in Near Infinity. It's not rocket science here.
Wands of Fear, Paralyzation, and Sleep have the Enchantment school, so enchanters get a bonus with them.
Wands of Fire, Frost, Lightning, Heavens, and Cloudkill have the Evocation school, so invokers get a bonus with them.
The Wand of Polymorphing has no school.
@Harpagornis, what about Karla? She's in Baldur's Gate no? Or did she break one of the rules? In any case, I'm looking forward to meeting your new character. Sorry about the Berserker. As I've said before I think that with really strong defenses against status effects, Ironskins, crowd control, grandmastery, and good summons, Berserker/Druid should be one of the better-suited combos for this challenge, a very "complete" build.
I could live with thieves with say 10 points in pickpockets botching a pickpocket attempt with Algernon just to kill him. It's not pretty but I'd choose it over outright banning pickpocketing. The farthest I would go is to deny thieves and bards the opportunity to make lousy pickpocketing attempts just to kill a neutral/friendly creature. To that end Tyr's curse would have to provide that failed pickpocket targets who go hostile may not be attacked. It would make pickpockets a skill worth investing in.
I think complete bans on any class-specific abilities should be avoided BTW. Although I can live without it I personally feel my Beastmaster should be allowed to use his innate Charm Animal ability without having to lift Sune's curse because otherwise it's a completely useless skill. It's not the same as not being allowed to use a certain item (Algernon's Cloak) as that affects all classes. Nor is it the same as prohibiting charm spells from a spellbook, because the caster has other spells to cast instead while Rangers do not get another innate instead.
What's the criteria for determining if you can attack someone that starts off neutral then? In some cases any interaction will result in them turning hostile, but in others you have to choose a particular conversation response to do that - are you entitled to try and make someone hostile in that way?
I'd say yes, unless we want to further rephrase Tyr's curse. A creature that has gone hostile through certain dialogue choices was not attacked while neutral/friendly (well maybe verbally attacked, but that'd be overstretching the terms of the curse imo).
As for the level to dual-class my Beastmaster, I have no idea. I think that in order to really reap the benefits of the class (beyond the familiar), I should dual in BG2, level 9, 12 or 13. What do you guys think?
Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
Regarding Tyr and Pick Pocketing we could define a minimum stat and/or a minimum level. As Tyr is living in the Seven Heavens with could use this number. What about a minimum Pick Pocket skill of 77 and or Char Level 7? Or maybe even crazier: The charlevel has to be a multiple of 7!!! I think this would please Tyr a lot...
Tyr: Friendly or neutral creatures cannot be attacked. Thieves and Bards can attack creatures after a failed pick pocket attempt only if they are level 7
Would be a fine connection to the seven heavens. If this is too crazy, please cry!
Haha, it's all fine by me @Harpagornis! But "only if they are level 7" means no attacking after failing a pick pockets check in SoD, SoA, ToB. Wouldn't it be more elegant to stick to your previous suggestion of using multiples of 7?
@alice_ashpool: Welcome to the challenge! It's always nice to see new players trying their hand at the run.
Looking at the Expanded Classes kits, the Kensai kit for monks and paladins would be solid, since they can use Champion's Strength scrolls against Belhifet and get normal Kensai bonuses (note that Kensai monks can get GM, but not until BG2), but I don't like the idea of trying to tackle the Coalition Camp invasion without Arrows of Detonation or Web or Skull Trap spells. The Vampyre kit for thieves would be very interesting in BG2, since it can drain levels and Constitution on melee hits (which offer a save vs. death, but the Vampyre kit also drains enemies' saves vs. death), and it even gets extra attacks per round, but it won't get 2 base APR until level 13, in BG2, so it will spend BG1 and SoD as basically an unkitted thief with low skills and a weak backstab multiplier.
The Sword Dancer paladin or a fighter Sword Dancer dual-classed to mage look promising. The paladin can use Champion's Strength scrolls and hit Belhifet with the Voidsword and the acid longsword in the off hand for about 45 damage per round with only 5 scrolls (more than enough to take down Belhifet), while the Sword Dancer->Mage (who can't use those scrolls and will have crummy THAC0 by LoB standards) can just cast Enchanted Weapon on itself and whomp Belhifet with the Martyr's Morningstar and wait for a critical hit; it will have 6 effective attacks per round when hasted (!) and should kill Belhifet in 10 rounds on average with a pip in Single Weapon Style. Plus, the Sword Dancer->Mage will have 9 APR with Arrows of Detonation, which will be especially safe for the Coalition Camp invasion.
I might try the Sword Dancer->Mage, since it fits my playstyle and I enjoy the crazy-high APR. Its lousy damage output will hurt it in many cases, but the extra APR is extremely useful for some high-impact items: bows, the Answerer, Blackrazor, Soul Reaver, the Scorcher Ammunition, and the Voidsword (also MoD, FoA, Gnasher, Jhor the Bleeder, and the Ravager if we go that far).
The Alchemist could also be good, and there are some interesting possibilities from dual-classing an Alchemist to a thief or a fighter (or even a cleric; Righteous Magic would amplify grenade damage). But I'm not sure I'd like running an Alchemist; it would take extra inventory management and gold maximizing to keep it in top condition.
I loaded the lvl 1 monk I rolled for non LoB SCS-insane into LoB mode. If she can do regular SCS-Insane, how hard can LoB be... my famous last words as i remember I quit LoB the last time I tried <10 mins in.
Anastasia - Dark Moon Monk
Personal Challenge: no Algernon's Cloak, 100 base stealth before detect illusions
I un-optimally fumbled through the beginning of the game:
1.Grabbed 250XP in candlekeep, firebeard gold, "excellent dagger" (seems I have that bit of SCS still installed), and 120 throwing daggers.
2. Looted Imoen, Montarion and Xzar, Gorion's Corpse and the diamond. Unlocked High Hedge and went east
3. Grabbed RoP + 1 exited north
4. Grabbed Ring of Wizardry and unlocked pelvale, went to high hedge the beregost
5. Grabbed 900XP (marl) + 300XP (firebeards book), stashed junk in firebeards house
6. Exit south, avoid ogrillons
7. loop round hobgoblins and get Colquetle amulet, cash in for 250XP, level 2 and rep 12
8. Travel to pelvale, then fishing village, get my first ambush - of all the things its the 10 archers one, death #1
9. complete bowl quest (2500XP), cash in lvl 3.
10. Travel cross country to durlags tower, stealth inside and grab 4000XP from the succubus quest
11. travel around some more, get really lucky with the basilisks and have Korax + throwing daggers kill the 3 lesser and 1 greater at the bottom, then the group of 2 lesser at the top (total 14,000). Get cocky and die again to Mutamin's greater basilisk, death #2. Reload, korax kills mutamin (a bug (?) meant I only got c900XP?) then finally goes hostile, run away west leaving 1 lesser and 1 greater.
12. Kill the wrong hobgoblin looking for worn whispers, get demoralised.
13. Kill the wolf harassing Melicamp and pick up the chicken
14. Complete Mad Arcand (300XP, Oil of fiery burning)
15. Get Brage to teleport to Nashkel (1000XP)
16. Mop up easy stuff around the south (Shield Amulet, Heart of the Golem, Ruffie, Driennes Cat, Scroll of protection from magic, ring of fire prot, take samuel to friendly arm inn)
17. Grab and Return Brun's son
19. Wonder what to do next...
Total Personal Kills: 4 (1 Hobgoblin, 1 wolf, 1 squirrel, something else I forgot)
Level 6
XP: 28,697
Rep: 15
Deaths: 2
You know, a Seducer would also be an excellent choice. The charm spells would be extremely unreliable until mid- to late BG2, but a Seducer has a base hit dice of d4, which means they can hit 1 base HP at level 1 and be immune to damage. Combined with their innate immunity to charm and the only things that could kill them before BG2 would be STR drain, level drain, petrification, Cloudkill, or that SoD Maze trap, and maybe a Death Spell by Kristin or something, all of which are very avoidable (you could also get stuck in a stalemate against a Carrion Crawler, of course, but that's what Edventar's Gift is for). The Purification Stone would prevent an instant death from Belhifet's disease on hit. With zero buffs, 19 STR, Lon's Amulet, Legacy of the Masters, one pip in Single Weapon Style, and the acid longsword, you'd kill Belhifet in 2 hours on average.
Roll a Seducer with 3 CON, sell the Ring of Wizardry, buy the Claw of Kazgaroth, kill Drizzt with dual-wielded clubs, and then just use one of his scimitars to get to BG2, maybe grabbing a couple of Vials of Mysterious Liquid and using the rest trick so you can hit 1 CON even without the Claw. Dual-class if you want, but otherwise in BG2 Psionic Invisibility could carry you through much of the game if you spammed it (2 rounds of unbreakable invisibility to everything per cast, or 32 rounds at level 40 with no other HLAs taken).
It might be one of the lowest-maintenance runs you could try.
Executive Summary: Angelo kills Adalon and trades her eggs for a cunning way of defeating the hive mother.
"With the master brain's blood, you've now acquired all three noble items," Felicity muttered in amazement as they left the Eastern Tunnels. "Matron Ardulace will be pleased!"
"Dead pleased," Angelo agreed, "perhaps I'll get a bonus."
Walking on (Dragon) Eggshells
Angelo did not get a bonus, though he did get 50,000 XP (awarded in 28,000 and 22,000 increments) and a order to meet Phaere in the Female Fighters' Society. Sneaking past the guarding Taso Kala, Angelo complied with her request and received forged dragon eggs to plant in the Temple of Lloth, along with a Despana treasury key. Having invisibly circumvented Taso Kala again, Angelo was approaching the temple when Solaufein saw through the illusion and offered separate replicas to screw over his former flame. "How do you like your eggs in the morning, Phaere? Faked?!" Solaufein cackled bitterly as he departed.
Stealthily entering the temple, Angelo opened the treasury and deposited Phaere's replica eggs in the container therein. As he was leaving the shadows after using the door, there was a short period in the Stealth lag before he became visible where he could activate Stealth again, and this allowed him to evade the golems without quickly casting Invisibility. After that, it was another hidden trip back to the Female Fighters' Society to give Phaere the replica eggs from Solaufein and earn 20,000 XP. Felicity briefly flirted with Adalon's imp, who arrived after Phaere departed to hurry proceedings, but Angelo shooed it away and invisibly returned to the temple.
Meeting him in the entrance hall, Phaere took him to the ritual chamber, where Matron Ardulace summoned a lesser demon lord to offer Phaere's fake eggs. Predictably, these were rejected and despite only taking 85 damage from the Flame Strike, Matron Ardulace was scripted to die and so die she did. A likewise fate befell Phaere, who offered Solaufein's fake eggs and discovered that Magic Resistance was no protection against opcode 666. Only once the twin pretenders had bitten the dust did Angelo exchange the real eggs for 25,000 XP and a 'powerful magical item' - Blackmist +4, which he would employ very shortly.
Before that, Angelo cast Invisibility, scooped up the leftovers and departed Ust Natha, stopping off at the bazaar on the way out. He didn't plan on returning to the city, so he may as well pick up a bargain!
Sending Adalon to Avalon
It wasn't long after Matron Ardulace's death that the alarm was sounded and Veldrin Angelo realised he would no longer be welcome in Ust Natha. This left the small complication of what to do with Adalon. The Underdark's resident silver dragon would obviously be unhappy that her eggs had been traded in for a halberd, so Angelo had planned not to tell her. Even if the betrayal had crossed her mind - and Angelo had sensed that she had sensed it - she wouldn't attack before announcing her intentions. She was polite like that... if only Angelo would respond in kind!
As anticipated, Adalon was initially neutral when Angelo entered the cave. It was in Angelo's best interests that she stayed that way, so he used the ultimate trump card in these situations. Like Firkraag and Thaxll'ssillyia before her, Adalon would not turn hostile when she successfully resisted Feeblemind, allowing Angelo as many chances as required to win the jackpot.
And from there, she was only half an hour's real-time hacking away (using Belm single-handed, for the extra critical chance) from kicking the 54,000 XP bucket.
Having hoovered up the 3,000 GP, silver dragon's blood and a redundant note that would open the Underdark's exit door from her corpse, Angelo decided to tie up another loose end. Boz and his compatriots were a nuisance that could easily be dealt with using Mislead-backstab spam with some Spell Immunity: Divination thrown in for good measure. He wouldn't have bothered had it not been for Boz's Dragon's Breath +4 (and N'ashtar had a scroll of Abi-Dalzim's Horrible Wilting), but while he'd happily slaughter ogres for loot, he wouldn't extend the courtesy to treacherous githyanki Simyaz loitering below. They'd helped him escape the illithids, after all, and didn't turn hostile unless he talked to them.
Helping Adalon gives you Necaradan's (Light) Crossbow +3, which isn't found on her body, making it impossible to acquire that and Blackmist in one playthrough.
Drow Dirty Work
When Angelo previously visited the Southern Tunnels, he'd encountered several drow attacking a beholder just beyond the entrance. This had struck him as odd behaviour at the time, and he wondered whether it was exploitable. Invisibly conducting some disposable summons, he lured the drow downwards before drawing them east using the fodder into the main chamber, a deliberate route to avoid meeting the hive mother for as long as possibe.
Exactly as he'd hoped, the drow began chopping away at the beholders and gauths gathered in the chamber. His own summons were vapourised with a handful of eye blasts, but these floating orbs didn't mind the neutral drow assault and offered no resistance to being sliced and diced.
Occasionally, the drow stopped slashing once they'd killed their target. This wouldn't do, so Angelo sent in a new summon to reactivate them and lure in any gullible beholders nearby. The golem manual was good for this, since its summon had 100% MR and so was immune to the eye beams, and Farsight helped to ensure that any stray beholders around the perimeter were suckered in.
Eventually, all of the hive mother's supporting players had been disposed of. The drow were wise enough not to attack her, but they would still attack him if he showed his face. Having rested outside the tunnels, Angelo could use the golem again to lure the drow out of the main chamber and down the corridor where the mindflayers were continuing their perpetual battle with the gauths. Perpetual, that was, until the drow killed the passive gauths... not that the illithids minded, nor that Angelo cared.
Breaking Out in Hives
Having rigged the battlefield in his favour, it was time to take her out. Felicity's earlier reconnaissance had shown that even when isolated, she was too strong for a frontal assault, but that didn't mean that Angelo was throwing in the towel. Instead, he cast Antimagic Shell on himself, having scribed it from a scroll that he'd bought in the Ust Natha bazaar. As his earlier summons had shown, the hive mother was reluctant to move to bite and so if he was immune to her barrage of eyebeams (including her antimagic ray) - protection that the shell provided - then she wouldn't attack unless Angelo wandered into range.
Unfortunately, the Antimagic Shell also prevented him from casting spells of his own for its duration - 1 turn/level, so at least 2 in-game hours - and there was no way that Angelo was going to enter melee or kill it by shooting. However, spells were allowed to be cast via items and this gave Angelo a cunning plan. To enact it, he would have to wait until his spell would expire in less than 2 in-game hours, preferably with a decent buffer. Having waited appropriately, Angelo then equipped Vhailor's helm and the shield of Balduran he'd bought from Deidre, as well as the cloak of reflection and Blackmist. Casting Simulacrum from the helm, he then removed his own shield of Balduran, selected Blackmist from the clone's weapon slots and approached the hive mother.
Let's be honest folks. In practice, this'll involve pressing Ctrl+T to advance the clock by an hour after Antimagic Shell starts. Purists who refuse this on the grounds that this'll alter the encounter scripts are welcome to do it manually, of course, but it'll soon become clear that this won't be an issue.
Remarkably, the hive mother recognised that the clone carried the shield of Balduran, despite not having it equipped, and did not pelt it with eyebeams; since beholders do not telekinetically steal items from clones, she was also unable to remove this protection. However, because clones don't inherit temporary buffs affecting their casters, the clone didn't have Antimagic Shell and she was free to blast Chain Lightnings and Magic Missiles its way. The cloak of reflection absorbed the former and Angelo let the clone suffer the latter, since the lack of Antimagic Shell also allowed the clone to cast Greater Malison (Angelo had made sure to memorise no level 4 spells beginning with letters before 'G', since clones inherited spells alphabetically). The hive mother's 75% MR would likely halt this, but it was worth a punt.
Having hopefully lowered its saving throws, the duo then cast Blindness, Angelo using Blackmist and the clone using Blackmist and Level 1 spells. The hive mother's LoB-enhanced saving throw v spells was 5, but if the attempt was unsuccessful, there was nothing stopping Angelo from retreating, resting and trying again ad infinitum. Eventually, its luck would run out...
The next step was to wait for another hour or so until the Antimagic Shell wore off. Blindness lasted for 2 hours, so the hive mother was guaranteed to still be blinded due to the earlier setup. Now that Angelo could cast spells again, he could cast Lower Resistance and Greater Malison to soften its defences without risk of interruption followed by a Feeblemind kicker. If this first attempt didn't work, Angelo would be free to walk away and start again from scratch again... with the only barrier to success being a lack of patience.
Once she had been lobotomised, that was that. No more scripted Stoneskins, no more periodic self-healing and definitely no more eyebeam rays. Only certain death by Angelo's hand awaited this rotten hive mother.
"I could slaughter the remaining sorry beholders using Mislead and Spell Immunity: Divination," Angelo admitted to Felicity as they left the Southern Tunnels. "But that would destroy the very elegance I sought when dispatching the hive mother. Besides, I grow tired of these caverns. Let's get out of here."
Out From Under
Despite having already persuaded the drow party in the Western Tunnels to open the gate, Angelo sensed that they would be less friendly now that his disguise had been breached. Two things prevented dashing through invisibly - the twin glabrezu could see through illusions and the drow and their golems crowded the door, blocking it off. However, neither of these were serious obstacles to an adventurer who had killed a matron mother, a hive mother and a dragon mother-to-be within a single episode.
Capitalising on their excellent senses, Angelo invisibly lured the glabrezu away from the other drow, keeping Spell Immunity Abjuration and his Shield of Harmony up to avoid their Remove Magic and Confusion spells. Overeager to catch their prey, the demons stumbled into two time traps that Angelo had set, and having already set himself up with Mislead and Improved Haste, Angelo wasted no time in dual-wielding Belm and Water's Edge to dismember the pair of them. He had ensured that the traps would activate on a wider corridor, as glabrezu could be tricky to manoeuvre behind to backstab, and kept Detect Illusion active after attacking to dispel the constantly refreshing Mirror Images.
With the hard part complete, Angelo summoned fodder to draw the drow from the doorway, then vanished. Awkwardly, the drow seemed to advance in formation, so Angelo wasn't sure he'd be able to pass them, but he was in luck - a drow wizard cast Teleport Field, whisking Angelo from one side of the troupe to the other. Now nothing was preventing him from making a clean exit. Hurling himself through the verboten entrance, Angelo passed through an intermediate area with some warring drow and surface elves, finding nothing of interest in the few containers as he went.
You can go directly to the exit after dealing with the lesser demon lord, since your drow disguise will not have worn off yet. However, this will not give you the luxury of unlimited attempts to Feeblemind Adalon or the hive mother (killing Adalon will remove the disguise in any case).
"Freedom at last, Felicity!" Angelo exclaimed as he burst out into the sunlight. "Wait," he said, looking around at the elven warriors that surrounded him. "Who are they?!"
Ok, I killed Mulahey for the first time. I'm going to reload since I think there are better ways to do this and i'm just getting familiar with LoB: but try to stab from stealth with icingdeath, disrupt his hold, or whatever enchantment he tries to cast with a fireball dropped on your head (90%FR) and get the skellies and kobolds to cluster around him in his little room, stealth from out of LoS, wait for protections to expire, 8 more fireballs, 8 magic missiles and some hit and run stealth rubbish and he died. I wasted my potions on pre-buffing before i realised i should sit aside and wait for the their buffs to expire, so buffed toe-to-toe with wand of missile to disrupt casting might be feasible after killing minions idk... 9 fireballs was not enough to kill them all unfortunately.
If I'm being honest, I just don't have the same patience I used to--or the same stupid stubbornness that motivated me to complete my second and last solo LoB run.
My Archer run taught me not to chase these trophies. I already know the meaning of life, and it's spending time with the people I love. Baldur's Gate still has a place in my life, but restarting the run until Charname gets on her feet just isn't worth the time.
Haha, it's all fine by me @Harpagornis! But "only if they are level 7" means no attacking after failing a pick pockets check in SoD, SoA, ToB. Wouldn't it be more elegant to stick to your previous suggestion of using multiples of 7?
Wisp has already punished a couple of targets that didn't like his nimble fingers, so I'll retire him. I might see if I can roll up a berserker druid, though the required stats for that make it really difficult to get a top line character.
@alice_ashpool, I think that's quite a neat way of dealing with Mulahay! @AvidGamerFan, good progress! Aren't you swimming in XP by now? Do XP rewards still motivate certain choices you make in the game? Or is it completionism? BTW If I look at what your F/M/T can do I cannot imagine a lone Beastmaster pulling off everything that Angelo is haha. @semiticgoddess, I understand your reasoning. I think the fun for me right now of this new challenge is in seeing how far I can get rather than setting my sights on a successful saga run, so starting over isn't such a big deal to me. @Grond0, if it's not too late, I'd say don't retire Wisp. In my opinion we should not retroactively apply any redefined curses. @Harpagornis, a simply worded curse, I like that. But other than Algernon, whose cloak is already addressed by Sune's curse, and maybe Quenash, are there any civilians worth killing? Another, more sweeping rule could be a curse worded as "No killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue". Drizzt, Bentan, and Dushai's classes are coded as 'innocent' for example. Drizzt can then still be killed but you'll have to make him turn hostile and really work for his XP and goodies. Creatures like Quenash, Bentan, Dushai will have to be pickpocketed or, if Sune's curse is lifted, charmed and used to fight other creatures.
@AvidGamerFan, good progress! Aren't you swimming in XP by now? Do XP rewards still motivate certain choices you make in the game? Or is it completionism? BTW If I look at what your F/M/T can do I cannot imagine a lone Beastmaster pulling off everything that Angelo is haha.
Angelo has roughly 4.8 million XP now and is a level 14/14/17 F/M/T. By and large, my choices are a hybrid of aiming to be repeatable, to kill as few targets as possible, to illustrate strengths from different classes (so that not only mage players, for instance, might learn something from reading the playthrough) and, where possible, to show off tactics that I believe are new, even when they're not practical (e.g. hive mother). Doing the 'minimal kills' route is mostly to see how much can be skipped in future runs if required... why bother grinding when you don't have to? Sometimes it'd be quicker to just slaughter everything than creep around it, but I suffer for my art.
I actually reckon that beastmasters are in a curiously good position throughout most of BG1. Once you complete Durlag's Tower, giving you the Helm of Opposite Alignment, you can change your alignment from Chaotic Good to Lawful Evil and summon an imp familiar, which is very useful. The summons would also come in handy at the Duchal Palace and the crusader attacks, and you can use arrows of detonation to stem the flow. It would be painful to head through Avernus and tackle Bel, but if you can get through that, you could dual into a cleric in BG2 to make more headway.
You can Feeblemind and kill targets all day long if they are not marked as innocents @AvidGamerFan!
I finally rolled up a new character after taking a closer look at all curses so say hello to Caleth the Enchanter who - hopefully - will get dualed to Fighter once reaching Level 3. As you all know i dont like Mages but this combo has its own charm.
Caleth will be a follower of Waukeen allowing recharging of items in shops. Using the Enchanter enemies will save vs wand at -6 penalty against the Wand of Paralyzation while the Wand of Fireballs can still be used. Not to forget that things like Durlags Goblet or Sandthief Ring can be used to their maximum potential.
Lets see how this works...
There are still lots of options for more curses, so if anyone got an idea: Feel free to post them!
One really devilish curse would be the ban our beloved pause button but i think that pushes the limits too far!
One thing to watch out for if you're using the Helm of Opposite Alignment to summon a familiar? If you ever take the helm off and try to swap the familiar in and out of your pack, it's likely to disappear. No inventory space used, no familiar out in the world, no chance to summon a new familiar. Ideal if you just want the hit points, terrible if you want your familiar to do things.
What's going on here ... the familiars of each group on the good/evil axis share a dialogue file, and that dialogue file checks your alignment on the lawful/chaotic axis to determine which inventory item you get.
Choosing "release familiar" on that item sets a variable, different for each familiar. Then the game checks for that variable and brings the familiar matching that variable over to you. But if, because of alignment-switching, the item didn't match the familiar you originally summoned, then no such creature exists and this can't be done. Your familiar has vanished into the ether.
Lawful and chaotic characters can lose familiars this way. Neutrals (on the L/C axis) can't.
So basically, if your hypothetical beastmaster wants that imp to go out and do things, they're stuck wearing the cursed helm permanently. If they ever take the helm off and pick up the familiar, it becomes a quasit in the inventory and then vanishes the next time they let it out.
So basically, if your hypothetical beastmaster wants that imp to go out and do things, they're stuck wearing the cursed helm permanently. If they ever take the helm off and pick up the familiar, it becomes a quasit in the inventory and then vanishes the next time they let it out.
You can change it permanently by combining the helm of opposite alignment and the girdle of sex change, then casting Remove Curse. This will remove both items, but your alignment will remain changed. I presume the familiar will be okay then?
That does scupper my original intention, which was to use the imp's Polymorph Self to kill Mulahey (like Angelo did, except using Entangle rather than Web) in a wizard slayer run. Since the girdle of sex change can't be used in the wizard slayer challenge and I don't fancy being lumbered with the helm for all of BG1, that plan is out. Since beastmasters can't wield Martyr's Morningstar for the level 1 trick (even when dualled to a cleric), I wasn't sure how to pass Belhifet anyway, but that makes the idea even more dead before arrival.
@AvidGamerFan: Whoever uses the Level-1-Immortal-Glitch in this challenge will immediately get killed. Nah... i would not be so harsh, but i would never ever allow such a character to get into the Hall of Fame here!
Hey @histamiini would you like to join the fun? Or have you ideas for another curse?
What about adding Chauntea the goddes of farming and agriculture?
Chauntea: No XP farming
I know that we already killed lots of farming options so if you have another idea feel free to post it!
Oh wow, it has been busy in here. @AvidGamerFan seems advancing nicely, some new tries by @Blackraven and @alice_ashpool, and @Harpagornis and @Grond0 trying to introduce more pain as usual. I've been lurking here and there, but not getting the sting to play yet. Until I read the stuff about Beast Master, Beast Master21/Cleric26 could be fun.
And @semiticgoddess nicely reminds me I still have a Blade sleeping outside Melissan hidey-hole. But need to try something else first.
@Harpagornis No farming sound truly evil, although Firkraag will surely be happy. I need to familiarize a lot of stuff to bring myself up to speed.
Ok, attempt 2 - I reloaded my game with Anastasia the Dark Soulmoon Monk. I am trying to work out what the optimal play is for early game no reload with the following.
- Selune: Resting is only allowed in inns and cleared dungeon floors. In the wilderness it only works near houses
- Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
- Tyr: No killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue
Thinking about grabbing all the important gear and what the most amount of XP with no combat could be.
1.Grabbed 250XP in candlekeep, firebeard gold, "excellent dagger" and 120 throwing daggers (turns out these are not needed until much later - I think I might go proficiency darts instead of daggers for darts of stunning)
2. Looted Imoen, Montarion and Xzar, Gorion's Corpse and the diamond. Unlocked High Hedge and went east
3. Grabbed RoP + 1, unlock larswood (east) and exit north to friendly arm inn
4. Grabbed Ring of Wizardry and unlocked pelvale. Exit south to coast way, then exit north to High Hedge. ID and sell ring of wizardry (9000GP) Exit to Beregost.
5. Complete Marl (900XP). Exit east to temple and donate:
200
300
500
800
Rep 13, and 7480GP
6. Return to Beregost and complete Firebeard's Book (300XP) +1 Rep (14). Stash inventory junk.
7. Exit south, loop round ogrillons, soth again, loop round hobgoblins collect Colquetle amulet. Return to Beregost and cash in for 250XP, +1 rep (15) and Level 2. Pump stealth.
8. Head north through each map individually to Fishermans village, complete the Bowl Quest (2500XP) using 2 shots from wand of missiles on priestess. Cash in level 3. Unlock Ulgoth's Beard.
9. Use stealth to complete Brun's son (500XP) - give 100GP for +1 rep (16)
This also gives:
Potion of Cloud Giant Strength
Potion of Magic Blocking
Some nice things to sell
There is a high chance of an ambush while doing this. Hope its not the Ten Bandits.
10. daisy chain back to Beregost, stash things, go through High Hedge and buy potions case (224GP), then west to shipwreck coast - Complete Mad Arcand (300XP, Oil of fiery burning) Should give Level 4 (6000XP exactly in total) 1 point in single weapon style for +1 ac and increased crit chance, pump stealth. Now need 7000XP to level 5.
11. Exit to red canyons west to unlock areas then south to Fishermans lake. Circle and stealth to Drizzt, wait 20 minutes while Drizzt is killed by gnolls - collect loot, equip Icingdeath. Exit to Archeological dig and accompany Brage to Nashkel (1000XP, potion of stone giant strength, 1000GP, +1 rep (now 17))
12. Complete the following:
Oublek +1 Rep (18) Noober (400XP). Don't collect Ankheg Armor yet (weight issue)
Fireleaf forest: Ruffie (1000XP)
Dryad Falls: Drienne's Cat (200XP, Protection from Undead, +1 Rep (19))
Gnoll Stronghold: Tome of Charisma
Gibberling mountains: Protection from Magic, Star Sapphire, Ring of Fire Protection, Samuel's sick body
Travel to Friendly arm inn, cash in quest (potion of heroism, 500XP, +1 rep (20))
Total XP: 9100
13. Travel to high hedge to ID tome, boosting Charisma to 19, giving us our max attainable prices before eaching Baldur's Gate, without killing Algernon.
I sold:
Excellent Dagger, Mithral Chain, Twinkle, Black Opal, Iol gem for what should be 10445GP
14. Travel to Temple -> Mutamin, exit south -> Durlag's Tower
Stealth inside and complete the succubus quest (4000XP, Potion of cloud giant strength)
This gives 13100XP and level 5.
Stealth down into the dungeon level 1. 90%FR should see you through the initial fireball.
In the main room with the exit loot:
Potion of heroism
6 Antidotes
4 Potions of perception (Hide in shadows + 20%, i.e. +10% to stealth)
Potion of FR
Potion of insulation
Minor healing potions
PfElec, PfAcid
Sellables:
Potion of master theivery x2
Wand of monster summoning
Sack in north room before forge:
Darts of wounding
Bullets + 2 (monk can store in ammunition slots)
Potion of master Thievery
6 minor potions of healing
Escape with loot. Can return after killing Mulahey for Talos Gift 50%LR + our potion of insulation
15. Sell loot again in High Hedge - this got me to 20457GP
16. Head west to the lighthouse - hopefully its night when you show up. Stealth inside the pirate cave and loot everything
For this, due to the lvl 5 monks low stealth (37.5) I find stealth past 1st group of sirenes, pausing out of sight to make sure Stealth procs again then entering cave past 2nd group. Again, make sure stealth procs first and go round to the east to avoid the dire charm trap. The 1-2 lightning ward traps can hit you, or fail entirely if you pass your saves. Could drink lightning resistance but imo its not worth it unless you're going for minimal damage. Loot treasure and lose line of sight to the east so long as you don't get trapped by bats.
important loot:
potion of absorption, tome of constitution. Most other stuff can be sold. Theres a healing pot and an antidote, but with Durlag's there's no shortage of antidotes
17. Return to High Hedge to ID tome, use, sell loot, buy claw of kazagoth for 7500.
Current gold: 18510 + some unsold loot
Gear: kazagoth, RoP +1, RoFP, Icingdeath, wand of missiles (8)
PfM (1), PfU (1), PfElec (1), PfAcid (1)
Stone Giant (1), Storm Giant (2), Heroism (2), Fiery Burning (1), Perception (4), Antidote (7), Fire Res (1), Insulation (1), Absorption (1), Magic Protection (1)
Elixir of Health (2), Minor Healing (13) (i've been using these as I have only rested once, in Beregost inn. Some sub-optimal plays meant I have taken quite a bit of damage this run.)
Kills: 0
I think next Mutamin and I have some ideas for getting the best out of Korax. Then Worn Whispers, Then Mulahey
Welcome back @histamiini - good to see you around again. Keep it slow and safe, like always! Our new pain train is still in some motion!
Yeah... i was pointing the no XP farming directly at Firkraag and maybe even at myself cause once the Beholder Lair is clear the rest farming would be within the rules again. It would kill the Basilisk-Loop even if someone gets his hands on Algernons Cloak. Personally i like this. @Grond0 like always will say that he eats everything, so what about @Blackraven?
@Harpagornis I don't think Gauth/Firkraag loop is necessary with normal runs anyway, but it does practically prevent high level duals which isn't nice. Maybe allow it in high level dualing?
I wouldn't just tolerate, but positively encourage no XP farming . I think that also fits nicely within the wider spirit of the challenge, e.g. the requirement not to miss out many of the tougher optional encounters.
@alice_ashpool the idea of using darts of stunning is great in a normal run. However, in LoB just hitting tougher enemies is difficult, so you are likely to run into resource constraints if that's a regular tactic. Normal monks can potentially make good use of them by following up a successful stunning blow by switching to darts, but that doesn't require proficiency and is not an option for a Dark Moon Monk (I assume that is what you are and not Dark Soul).
I spent the best part of 3 hours earlier today trying to roll an ideal score for a berserker druid. I reckon that requires 97 to avoid the need for compromise - and I actually think that combination would be pretty tough to get through BG1 under these rules, so didn't really want to compromise. The best score I managed was 93, so I've given up on that for now. Maybe I'll give one of my old sorcerers a run out ...
Comments
You know, when someone asks a question like this, I just look it up in Near Infinity. It's not rocket science here.
Wands of Fear, Paralyzation, and Sleep have the Enchantment school, so enchanters get a bonus with them.
Wands of Fire, Frost, Lightning, Heavens, and Cloudkill have the Evocation school, so invokers get a bonus with them.
The Wand of Polymorphing has no school.
Regarding Tyr i can live with Thieves and Bards having a way around this restriction - what about @Blackraven?
I could live with thieves with say 10 points in pickpockets botching a pickpocket attempt with Algernon just to kill him. It's not pretty but I'd choose it over outright banning pickpocketing. The farthest I would go is to deny thieves and bards the opportunity to make lousy pickpocketing attempts just to kill a neutral/friendly creature. To that end Tyr's curse would have to provide that failed pickpocket targets who go hostile may not be attacked. It would make pickpockets a skill worth investing in.
I think complete bans on any class-specific abilities should be avoided BTW. Although I can live without it I personally feel my Beastmaster should be allowed to use his innate Charm Animal ability without having to lift Sune's curse because otherwise it's a completely useless skill. It's not the same as not being allowed to use a certain item (Algernon's Cloak) as that affects all classes. Nor is it the same as prohibiting charm spells from a spellbook, because the caster has other spells to cast instead while Rangers do not get another innate instead.
I'd say yes, unless we want to further rephrase Tyr's curse. A creature that has gone hostile through certain dialogue choices was not attacked while neutral/friendly (well maybe verbally attacked, but that'd be overstretching the terms of the curse imo).
As for the level to dual-class my Beastmaster, I have no idea. I think that in order to really reap the benefits of the class (beyond the familiar), I should dual in BG2, level 9, 12 or 13. What do you guys think?
Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
Regarding Tyr and Pick Pocketing we could define a minimum stat and/or a minimum level. As Tyr is living in the Seven Heavens with could use this number. What about a minimum Pick Pocket skill of 77 and or Char Level 7? Or maybe even crazier: The charlevel has to be a multiple of 7!!! I think this would please Tyr a lot...
Tyr: Friendly or neutral creatures cannot be attacked. Thieves and Bards can attack creatures after a failed pick pocket attempt only if they are level 7
Would be a fine connection to the seven heavens. If this is too crazy, please cry!
Thanks BTW for correcting Sune's curse.
Looking at the Expanded Classes kits, the Kensai kit for monks and paladins would be solid, since they can use Champion's Strength scrolls against Belhifet and get normal Kensai bonuses (note that Kensai monks can get GM, but not until BG2), but I don't like the idea of trying to tackle the Coalition Camp invasion without Arrows of Detonation or Web or Skull Trap spells. The Vampyre kit for thieves would be very interesting in BG2, since it can drain levels and Constitution on melee hits (which offer a save vs. death, but the Vampyre kit also drains enemies' saves vs. death), and it even gets extra attacks per round, but it won't get 2 base APR until level 13, in BG2, so it will spend BG1 and SoD as basically an unkitted thief with low skills and a weak backstab multiplier.
The Sword Dancer paladin or a fighter Sword Dancer dual-classed to mage look promising. The paladin can use Champion's Strength scrolls and hit Belhifet with the Voidsword and the acid longsword in the off hand for about 45 damage per round with only 5 scrolls (more than enough to take down Belhifet), while the Sword Dancer->Mage (who can't use those scrolls and will have crummy THAC0 by LoB standards) can just cast Enchanted Weapon on itself and whomp Belhifet with the Martyr's Morningstar and wait for a critical hit; it will have 6 effective attacks per round when hasted (!) and should kill Belhifet in 10 rounds on average with a pip in Single Weapon Style. Plus, the Sword Dancer->Mage will have 9 APR with Arrows of Detonation, which will be especially safe for the Coalition Camp invasion.
I might try the Sword Dancer->Mage, since it fits my playstyle and I enjoy the crazy-high APR. Its lousy damage output will hurt it in many cases, but the extra APR is extremely useful for some high-impact items: bows, the Answerer, Blackrazor, Soul Reaver, the Scorcher Ammunition, and the Voidsword (also MoD, FoA, Gnasher, Jhor the Bleeder, and the Ravager if we go that far).
The Alchemist could also be good, and there are some interesting possibilities from dual-classing an Alchemist to a thief or a fighter (or even a cleric; Righteous Magic would amplify grenade damage). But I'm not sure I'd like running an Alchemist; it would take extra inventory management and gold maximizing to keep it in top condition.
I loaded the lvl 1 monk I rolled for non LoB SCS-insane into LoB mode. If she can do regular SCS-Insane, how hard can LoB be... my famous last words as i remember I quit LoB the last time I tried <10 mins in.
Anastasia - Dark Moon Monk
Personal Challenge: no Algernon's Cloak, 100 base stealth before detect illusions
I un-optimally fumbled through the beginning of the game:
1.Grabbed 250XP in candlekeep, firebeard gold, "excellent dagger" (seems I have that bit of SCS still installed), and 120 throwing daggers.
2. Looted Imoen, Montarion and Xzar, Gorion's Corpse and the diamond. Unlocked High Hedge and went east
3. Grabbed RoP + 1 exited north
4. Grabbed Ring of Wizardry and unlocked pelvale, went to high hedge the beregost
5. Grabbed 900XP (marl) + 300XP (firebeards book), stashed junk in firebeards house
6. Exit south, avoid ogrillons
7. loop round hobgoblins and get Colquetle amulet, cash in for 250XP, level 2 and rep 12
8. Travel to pelvale, then fishing village, get my first ambush - of all the things its the 10 archers one, death #1
9. complete bowl quest (2500XP), cash in lvl 3.
10. Travel cross country to durlags tower, stealth inside and grab 4000XP from the succubus quest
11. travel around some more, get really lucky with the basilisks and have Korax + throwing daggers kill the 3 lesser and 1 greater at the bottom, then the group of 2 lesser at the top (total 14,000). Get cocky and die again to Mutamin's greater basilisk, death #2. Reload, korax kills mutamin (a bug (?) meant I only got c900XP?) then finally goes hostile, run away west leaving 1 lesser and 1 greater.
12. Kill the wrong hobgoblin looking for worn whispers, get demoralised.
13. Kill the wolf harassing Melicamp and pick up the chicken
14. Complete Mad Arcand (300XP, Oil of fiery burning)
15. Get Brage to teleport to Nashkel (1000XP)
16. Mop up easy stuff around the south (Shield Amulet, Heart of the Golem, Ruffie, Driennes Cat, Scroll of protection from magic, ring of fire prot, take samuel to friendly arm inn)
17. Grab and Return Brun's son
19. Wonder what to do next...
Total Personal Kills: 4 (1 Hobgoblin, 1 wolf, 1 squirrel, something else I forgot)
Level 6
XP: 28,697
Rep: 15
Deaths: 2
Roll a Seducer with 3 CON, sell the Ring of Wizardry, buy the Claw of Kazgaroth, kill Drizzt with dual-wielded clubs, and then just use one of his scimitars to get to BG2, maybe grabbing a couple of Vials of Mysterious Liquid and using the rest trick so you can hit 1 CON even without the Claw. Dual-class if you want, but otherwise in BG2 Psionic Invisibility could carry you through much of the game if you spammed it (2 rounds of unbreakable invisibility to everything per cast, or 32 rounds at level 40 with no other HLAs taken).
It might be one of the lowest-maintenance runs you could try.
Executive Summary: Angelo kills Adalon and trades her eggs for a cunning way of defeating the hive mother.
"With the master brain's blood, you've now acquired all three noble items," Felicity muttered in amazement as they left the Eastern Tunnels. "Matron Ardulace will be pleased!"
"Dead pleased," Angelo agreed, "perhaps I'll get a bonus."
Stealthily entering the temple, Angelo opened the treasury and deposited Phaere's replica eggs in the container therein. As he was leaving the shadows after using the door, there was a short period in the Stealth lag before he became visible where he could activate Stealth again, and this allowed him to evade the golems without quickly casting Invisibility. After that, it was another hidden trip back to the Female Fighters' Society to give Phaere the replica eggs from Solaufein and earn 20,000 XP. Felicity briefly flirted with Adalon's imp, who arrived after Phaere departed to hurry proceedings, but Angelo shooed it away and invisibly returned to the temple.
Meeting him in the entrance hall, Phaere took him to the ritual chamber, where Matron Ardulace summoned a lesser demon lord to offer Phaere's fake eggs. Predictably, these were rejected and despite only taking 85 damage from the Flame Strike, Matron Ardulace was scripted to die and so die she did. A likewise fate befell Phaere, who offered Solaufein's fake eggs and discovered that Magic Resistance was no protection against opcode 666. Only once the twin pretenders had bitten the dust did Angelo exchange the real eggs for 25,000 XP and a 'powerful magical item' - Blackmist +4, which he would employ very shortly.
Before that, Angelo cast Invisibility, scooped up the leftovers and departed Ust Natha, stopping off at the bazaar on the way out. He didn't plan on returning to the city, so he may as well pick up a bargain!
As anticipated, Adalon was initially neutral when Angelo entered the cave. It was in Angelo's best interests that she stayed that way, so he used the ultimate trump card in these situations. Like Firkraag and Thaxll'ssillyia before her, Adalon would not turn hostile when she successfully resisted Feeblemind, allowing Angelo as many chances as required to win the jackpot.
Having hoovered up the 3,000 GP, silver dragon's blood and a redundant note that would open the Underdark's exit door from her corpse, Angelo decided to tie up another loose end. Boz and his compatriots were a nuisance that could easily be dealt with using Mislead-backstab spam with some Spell Immunity: Divination thrown in for good measure. He wouldn't have bothered had it not been for Boz's Dragon's Breath +4 (and N'ashtar had a scroll of Abi-Dalzim's Horrible Wilting), but while he'd happily slaughter ogres for loot, he wouldn't extend the courtesy to treacherous githyanki Simyaz loitering below. They'd helped him escape the illithids, after all, and didn't turn hostile unless he talked to them.
Helping Adalon gives you Necaradan's (Light) Crossbow +3, which isn't found on her body, making it impossible to acquire that and Blackmist in one playthrough.
Exactly as he'd hoped, the drow began chopping away at the beholders and gauths gathered in the chamber. His own summons were vapourised with a handful of eye blasts, but these floating orbs didn't mind the neutral drow assault and offered no resistance to being sliced and diced.
Eventually, all of the hive mother's supporting players had been disposed of. The drow were wise enough not to attack her, but they would still attack him if he showed his face. Having rested outside the tunnels, Angelo could use the golem again to lure the drow out of the main chamber and down the corridor where the mindflayers were continuing their perpetual battle with the gauths. Perpetual, that was, until the drow killed the passive gauths... not that the illithids minded, nor that Angelo cared.
Unfortunately, the Antimagic Shell also prevented him from casting spells of his own for its duration - 1 turn/level, so at least 2 in-game hours - and there was no way that Angelo was going to enter melee or kill it by shooting. However, spells were allowed to be cast via items and this gave Angelo a cunning plan. To enact it, he would have to wait until his spell would expire in less than 2 in-game hours, preferably with a decent buffer. Having waited appropriately, Angelo then equipped Vhailor's helm and the shield of Balduran he'd bought from Deidre, as well as the cloak of reflection and Blackmist. Casting Simulacrum from the helm, he then removed his own shield of Balduran, selected Blackmist from the clone's weapon slots and approached the hive mother.
Let's be honest folks. In practice, this'll involve pressing Ctrl+T to advance the clock by an hour after Antimagic Shell starts. Purists who refuse this on the grounds that this'll alter the encounter scripts are welcome to do it manually, of course, but it'll soon become clear that this won't be an issue.
Remarkably, the hive mother recognised that the clone carried the shield of Balduran, despite not having it equipped, and did not pelt it with eyebeams; since beholders do not telekinetically steal items from clones, she was also unable to remove this protection. However, because clones don't inherit temporary buffs affecting their casters, the clone didn't have Antimagic Shell and she was free to blast Chain Lightnings and Magic Missiles its way. The cloak of reflection absorbed the former and Angelo let the clone suffer the latter, since the lack of Antimagic Shell also allowed the clone to cast Greater Malison (Angelo had made sure to memorise no level 4 spells beginning with letters before 'G', since clones inherited spells alphabetically). The hive mother's 75% MR would likely halt this, but it was worth a punt.
Having hopefully lowered its saving throws, the duo then cast Blindness, Angelo using Blackmist and the clone using Blackmist and Level 1 spells. The hive mother's LoB-enhanced saving throw v spells was 5, but if the attempt was unsuccessful, there was nothing stopping Angelo from retreating, resting and trying again ad infinitum. Eventually, its luck would run out...
The next step was to wait for another hour or so until the Antimagic Shell wore off. Blindness lasted for 2 hours, so the hive mother was guaranteed to still be blinded due to the earlier setup. Now that Angelo could cast spells again, he could cast Lower Resistance and Greater Malison to soften its defences without risk of interruption followed by a Feeblemind kicker. If this first attempt didn't work, Angelo would be free to walk away and start again from scratch again... with the only barrier to success being a lack of patience.
Once she had been lobotomised, that was that. No more scripted Stoneskins, no more periodic self-healing and definitely no more eyebeam rays. Only certain death by Angelo's hand awaited this rotten hive mother.
"I could slaughter the remaining sorry beholders using Mislead and Spell Immunity: Divination," Angelo admitted to Felicity as they left the Southern Tunnels. "But that would destroy the very elegance I sought when dispatching the hive mother. Besides, I grow tired of these caverns. Let's get out of here."
Capitalising on their excellent senses, Angelo invisibly lured the glabrezu away from the other drow, keeping Spell Immunity Abjuration and his Shield of Harmony up to avoid their Remove Magic and Confusion spells. Overeager to catch their prey, the demons stumbled into two time traps that Angelo had set, and having already set himself up with Mislead and Improved Haste, Angelo wasted no time in dual-wielding Belm and Water's Edge to dismember the pair of them. He had ensured that the traps would activate on a wider corridor, as glabrezu could be tricky to manoeuvre behind to backstab, and kept Detect Illusion active after attacking to dispel the constantly refreshing Mirror Images.
With the hard part complete, Angelo summoned fodder to draw the drow from the doorway, then vanished. Awkwardly, the drow seemed to advance in formation, so Angelo wasn't sure he'd be able to pass them, but he was in luck - a drow wizard cast Teleport Field, whisking Angelo from one side of the troupe to the other. Now nothing was preventing him from making a clean exit. Hurling himself through the verboten entrance, Angelo passed through an intermediate area with some warring drow and surface elves, finding nothing of interest in the few containers as he went.
You can go directly to the exit after dealing with the lesser demon lord, since your drow disguise will not have worn off yet. However, this will not give you the luxury of unlimited attempts to Feeblemind Adalon or the hive mother (killing Adalon will remove the disguise in any case).
"Freedom at last, Felicity!" Angelo exclaimed as he burst out into the sunlight. "Wait," he said, looking around at the elven warriors that surrounded him. "Who are they?!"
I'm sure there are better ways.
My Archer run taught me not to chase these trophies. I already know the meaning of life, and it's spending time with the people I love. Baldur's Gate still has a place in my life, but restarting the run until Charname gets on her feet just isn't worth the time.
Wisp has already punished a couple of targets that didn't like his nimble fingers, so I'll retire him. I might see if I can roll up a berserker druid, though the required stats for that make it really difficult to get a top line character.
Tyr: No killing of civilians
This still allows us to kill Drizzt while Thieves/Bards are forced to push Pick Pocket with Potions. Plain and simple. No?
@AvidGamerFan, good progress! Aren't you swimming in XP by now? Do XP rewards still motivate certain choices you make in the game? Or is it completionism? BTW If I look at what your F/M/T can do I cannot imagine a lone Beastmaster pulling off everything that Angelo is haha.
@semiticgoddess, I understand your reasoning. I think the fun for me right now of this new challenge is in seeing how far I can get rather than setting my sights on a successful saga run, so starting over isn't such a big deal to me.
@Grond0, if it's not too late, I'd say don't retire Wisp. In my opinion we should not retroactively apply any redefined curses.
@Harpagornis, a simply worded curse, I like that. But other than Algernon, whose cloak is already addressed by Sune's curse, and maybe Quenash, are there any civilians worth killing? Another, more sweeping rule could be a curse worded as "No killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue". Drizzt, Bentan, and Dushai's classes are coded as 'innocent' for example. Drizzt can then still be killed but you'll have to make him turn hostile and really work for his XP and goodies. Creatures like Quenash, Bentan, Dushai will have to be pickpocketed or, if Sune's curse is lifted, charmed and used to fight other creatures.
Tyr: No killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue
Will update the rules and hopefully start with a new character today!
Angelo has roughly 4.8 million XP now and is a level 14/14/17 F/M/T. By and large, my choices are a hybrid of aiming to be repeatable, to kill as few targets as possible, to illustrate strengths from different classes (so that not only mage players, for instance, might learn something from reading the playthrough) and, where possible, to show off tactics that I believe are new, even when they're not practical (e.g. hive mother). Doing the 'minimal kills' route is mostly to see how much can be skipped in future runs if required... why bother grinding when you don't have to? Sometimes it'd be quicker to just slaughter everything than creep around it, but I suffer for my art.
I actually reckon that beastmasters are in a curiously good position throughout most of BG1. Once you complete Durlag's Tower, giving you the Helm of Opposite Alignment, you can change your alignment from Chaotic Good to Lawful Evil and summon an imp familiar, which is very useful. The summons would also come in handy at the Duchal Palace and the crusader attacks, and you can use arrows of detonation to stem the flow. It would be painful to head through Avernus and tackle Bel, but if you can get through that, you could dual into a cleric in BG2 to make more headway.
I finally rolled up a new character after taking a closer look at all curses so say hello to Caleth the Enchanter who - hopefully - will get dualed to Fighter once reaching Level 3. As you all know i dont like Mages but this combo has its own charm.
Caleth will be a follower of Waukeen allowing recharging of items in shops. Using the Enchanter enemies will save vs wand at -6 penalty against the Wand of Paralyzation while the Wand of Fireballs can still be used. Not to forget that things like Durlags Goblet or Sandthief Ring can be used to their maximum potential.
Lets see how this works...
There are still lots of options for more curses, so if anyone got an idea: Feel free to post them!
One really devilish curse would be the ban our beloved pause button but i think that pushes the limits too far!
What's going on here ... the familiars of each group on the good/evil axis share a dialogue file, and that dialogue file checks your alignment on the lawful/chaotic axis to determine which inventory item you get.
Choosing "release familiar" on that item sets a variable, different for each familiar. Then the game checks for that variable and brings the familiar matching that variable over to you. But if, because of alignment-switching, the item didn't match the familiar you originally summoned, then no such creature exists and this can't be done. Your familiar has vanished into the ether.
Lawful and chaotic characters can lose familiars this way. Neutrals (on the L/C axis) can't.
So basically, if your hypothetical beastmaster wants that imp to go out and do things, they're stuck wearing the cursed helm permanently. If they ever take the helm off and pick up the familiar, it becomes a quasit in the inventory and then vanishes the next time they let it out.
You can change it permanently by combining the helm of opposite alignment and the girdle of sex change, then casting Remove Curse. This will remove both items, but your alignment will remain changed. I presume the familiar will be okay then?
That does scupper my original intention, which was to use the imp's Polymorph Self to kill Mulahey (like Angelo did, except using Entangle rather than Web) in a wizard slayer run. Since the girdle of sex change can't be used in the wizard slayer challenge and I don't fancy being lumbered with the helm for all of BG1, that plan is out. Since beastmasters can't wield Martyr's Morningstar for the level 1 trick (even when dualled to a cleric), I wasn't sure how to pass Belhifet anyway, but that makes the idea even more dead before arrival.
Hey @histamiini would you like to join the fun? Or have you ideas for another curse?
What about adding Chauntea the goddes of farming and agriculture?
Chauntea: No XP farming
I know that we already killed lots of farming options so if you have another idea feel free to post it!
And @semiticgoddess nicely reminds me I still have a Blade sleeping outside Melissan hidey-hole. But need to try something else first.
@Harpagornis No farming sound truly evil, although Firkraag will surely be happy.
- Selune: Resting is only allowed in inns and cleared dungeon floors. In the wilderness it only works near houses
- Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
- Tyr: No killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue
Thinking about grabbing all the important gear and what the most amount of XP with no combat could be.
1.Grabbed 250XP in candlekeep, firebeard gold, "excellent dagger" and 120 throwing daggers (turns out these are not needed until much later - I think I might go proficiency darts instead of daggers for darts of stunning)
2. Looted Imoen, Montarion and Xzar, Gorion's Corpse and the diamond. Unlocked High Hedge and went east
3. Grabbed RoP + 1, unlock larswood (east) and exit north to friendly arm inn
4. Grabbed Ring of Wizardry and unlocked pelvale. Exit south to coast way, then exit north to High Hedge. ID and sell ring of wizardry (9000GP) Exit to Beregost.
5. Complete Marl (900XP). Exit east to temple and donate:
200
300
500
800
Rep 13, and 7480GP
6. Return to Beregost and complete Firebeard's Book (300XP) +1 Rep (14). Stash inventory junk.
7. Exit south, loop round ogrillons, soth again, loop round hobgoblins collect Colquetle amulet. Return to Beregost and cash in for 250XP, +1 rep (15) and Level 2. Pump stealth.
8. Head north through each map individually to Fishermans village, complete the Bowl Quest (2500XP) using 2 shots from wand of missiles on priestess. Cash in level 3. Unlock Ulgoth's Beard.
9. Use stealth to complete Brun's son (500XP) - give 100GP for +1 rep (16)
This also gives:
Potion of Cloud Giant Strength
Potion of Magic Blocking
Some nice things to sell
There is a high chance of an ambush while doing this. Hope its not the Ten Bandits.
10. daisy chain back to Beregost, stash things, go through High Hedge and buy potions case (224GP), then west to shipwreck coast - Complete Mad Arcand (300XP, Oil of fiery burning) Should give Level 4 (6000XP exactly in total) 1 point in single weapon style for +1 ac and increased crit chance, pump stealth. Now need 7000XP to level 5.
11. Exit to red canyons west to unlock areas then south to Fishermans lake. Circle and stealth to Drizzt, wait 20 minutes while Drizzt is killed by gnolls - collect loot, equip Icingdeath. Exit to Archeological dig and accompany Brage to Nashkel (1000XP, potion of stone giant strength, 1000GP, +1 rep (now 17))
12. Complete the following:
Oublek +1 Rep (18) Noober (400XP). Don't collect Ankheg Armor yet (weight issue)
Fireleaf forest: Ruffie (1000XP)
Dryad Falls: Drienne's Cat (200XP, Protection from Undead, +1 Rep (19))
Gnoll Stronghold: Tome of Charisma
Gibberling mountains: Protection from Magic, Star Sapphire, Ring of Fire Protection, Samuel's sick body
Travel to Friendly arm inn, cash in quest (potion of heroism, 500XP, +1 rep (20))
Total XP: 9100
13. Travel to high hedge to ID tome, boosting Charisma to 19, giving us our max attainable prices before eaching Baldur's Gate, without killing Algernon.
I sold:
Excellent Dagger, Mithral Chain, Twinkle, Black Opal, Iol gem for what should be 10445GP
14. Travel to Temple -> Mutamin, exit south -> Durlag's Tower
Stealth inside and complete the succubus quest (4000XP, Potion of cloud giant strength)
This gives 13100XP and level 5.
Stealth down into the dungeon level 1. 90%FR should see you through the initial fireball.
In the main room with the exit loot:
Potion of heroism
6 Antidotes
4 Potions of perception (Hide in shadows + 20%, i.e. +10% to stealth)
Potion of FR
Potion of insulation
Minor healing potions
PfElec, PfAcid
Sellables:
Potion of master theivery x2
Wand of monster summoning
Sack in north room before forge:
Darts of wounding
Bullets + 2 (monk can store in ammunition slots)
Potion of master Thievery
6 minor potions of healing
Escape with loot. Can return after killing Mulahey for Talos Gift 50%LR + our potion of insulation
15. Sell loot again in High Hedge - this got me to 20457GP
16. Head west to the lighthouse - hopefully its night when you show up. Stealth inside the pirate cave and loot everything
For this, due to the lvl 5 monks low stealth (37.5) I find stealth past 1st group of sirenes, pausing out of sight to make sure Stealth procs again then entering cave past 2nd group. Again, make sure stealth procs first and go round to the east to avoid the dire charm trap. The 1-2 lightning ward traps can hit you, or fail entirely if you pass your saves. Could drink lightning resistance but imo its not worth it unless you're going for minimal damage. Loot treasure and lose line of sight to the east so long as you don't get trapped by bats.
important loot:
potion of absorption, tome of constitution. Most other stuff can be sold. Theres a healing pot and an antidote, but with Durlag's there's no shortage of antidotes
17. Return to High Hedge to ID tome, use, sell loot, buy claw of kazagoth for 7500.
Current gold: 18510 + some unsold loot
Gear: kazagoth, RoP +1, RoFP, Icingdeath, wand of missiles (8)
PfM (1), PfU (1), PfElec (1), PfAcid (1)
Stone Giant (1), Storm Giant (2), Heroism (2), Fiery Burning (1), Perception (4), Antidote (7), Fire Res (1), Insulation (1), Absorption (1), Magic Protection (1)
Elixir of Health (2), Minor Healing (13) (i've been using these as I have only rested once, in Beregost inn. Some sub-optimal plays meant I have taken quite a bit of damage this run.)
Kills: 0
I think next Mutamin and I have some ideas for getting the best out of Korax. Then Worn Whispers, Then Mulahey
Yeah... i was pointing the no XP farming directly at Firkraag and maybe even at myself cause once the Beholder Lair is clear the rest farming would be within the rules again. It would kill the Basilisk-Loop even if someone gets his hands on Algernons Cloak. Personally i like this. @Grond0 like always will say that he eats everything, so what about @Blackraven?
@alice_ashpool the idea of using darts of stunning is great in a normal run. However, in LoB just hitting tougher enemies is difficult, so you are likely to run into resource constraints if that's a regular tactic. Normal monks can potentially make good use of them by following up a successful stunning blow by switching to darts, but that doesn't require proficiency and is not an option for a Dark Moon Monk (I assume that is what you are and not Dark Soul).
I spent the best part of 3 hours earlier today trying to roll an ideal score for a berserker druid. I reckon that requires 97 to avoid the need for compromise - and I actually think that combination would be pretty tough to get through BG1 under these rules, so didn't really want to compromise. The best score I managed was 93, so I've given up on that for now. Maybe I'll give one of my old sorcerers a run out ...