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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I'm still a little worried about the new variants popping up in the U.K. The existing vaccines may still be effective to some extent against the new variant, but a slight decrease in efficacy can still mean a lot of deaths on the aggregate scale.

    We're still very much in the thick of things here in the States.
    Grond0
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    edited February 2021
    There will always be mutations since that is set nature of virussen. However, given the knowledge of sequencing the different strains it also becomes possible to anticipate future prevalent mutations and work that into the vaccine design.

    This is how the generic flu cocktail is created and there is no reason that it cannot be done for newer corona strains.
    semiticgoddessdunbar
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    edited February 2021
    In the UK the over 65's (this age is currently being lowered) and the clinically vulnerable get a free flu vaccine every winter which is adapted each year to keep pace with mutations in the flu virus and I imagine this will also be the case with covid in the coming years.
  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 1,481
    Given the good probability of that happening, I just wonder if they'll combine the 2 into one vaccination like they did with the MMR (Measles, Mumps and Rubella) jab.

    TR
  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 1,481
    On a lighter facet of the pandemic. With the widespread use of zoom for court cases now I suppose it was only a matter of time before somebody accidentally hit the wrong button. Fortunately for us the judge saw the funny side and (I'm guessing to the further embarrassment of the lawyer concerned) released the video.

    "I'm not a cat..."

    TR
    deltagoBalrog99Grond0Arvia
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    dunbar wrote: »
    In the UK the over 65's (this age is currently being lowered) and the clinically vulnerable get a free flu vaccine every winter which is adapted each year to keep pace with mutations in the flu virus and I imagine this will also be the case with covid in the coming years.
    yes, this is what I expect.
    The only difference, also concerning a potential combination with regular flu vaccination, is the required frequency. Current corona strains seem less inhibited by the seasons than common flu strains which might warrant a higher frequency for a while.

    Also, combining multiple vaccines can bring down efficacy a bit because the body reacts to multiple stimuli at the same time.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Patient reinfected with South African COVID variant in serious condition

    In late January, an Israeli who was infected with the novel coronavirus in August was found to be reinfected with the South African variant.

    https://www.jpost.com/health-science/patient-reinfected-with-south-african-covid-variant-in-serious-condition-658907

    Four people in Oregon who received both doses of vaccine test positive for coronavirus

    https://news.yahoo.com/four-people-oregon-received-both-205918157.html


    Its clear to me that vaccinations will not be the magic bullet that ends the pandemic.

    At some point we'll have to get really serious about actually wearing masks and physical distancing. That means that we can't tolerate dick nosing masks or chin diapers. Maybe some real lockdowns for the country like New Zealand. Praying for a miracle from Vaccines alone just isn't going to get it done. And half assing our response while half the country ignores the pandemic isn't helping either.

    We actually need to take health and safety measures seriously in America.
    Proont
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited February 2021
    Can't help wondering if 'herd immunity' is the latest bogeyman phrase on the left side of the spectrum. Numbers are going down faster than many seem them to want them to be...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Last I heard, being infected didn't actually provide much resistance against future infections. It was the reason why herd immunity didn't seem practical.

    I've noticed a substantial dip, in the sense that 1,700 deaths from COVID in a single day is "low" by our standards these days, but I'm not expecting the numbers to stay that way, much less go down further long-term. The virus had plenty of chances to suddenly die off and it didn't. I don't think we're going to be safe anytime soon.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    edited March 2021
    In the Netherlands it is not a response from the government based on the numbers, because they are certain that 37/17000000 is negligible. It is a response by the government based on problems at the local health organisations who are being called constantly by elderly who ask if their planned AstraZeneca vaccine is safe.
    So by stopping it for two weeks and getting an official statement out they hope to relieve the local health systems from the phone issues and get back to their real work. By extension, media (maybe not social) is actually causing this response from people, because in general media likes to report small numbers as large news.

    To conclude, media needs to do a statistical check for relevance before they send out their stories
    Post edited by lroumen on
    Balrog99ArviasemiticgoddessProont
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    lroumen wrote: »
    In the Netherlands it is not a response from the government based on the numbers, because they are certain that 37/17000000 is negligible. It is a response by the government based on problems at the local health organisations who are being called constantly by elderly who ask if their planned AstraZeneca vaccine is safe.
    So by stopping it for two weeks and getting an official statement out they hope to relieve the local health systems from the phone issues and get back to their real work. By extension, media (maybe not social) is actually causing this response from people, because in general media likes to report small numbers as large news.

    To conclude, media needs to do a statistical check for relevance before they send out their stories

    There wouldn't be 24 hr news networks if they did a statistical check for relevance before they sent out their stories. Just sayin'...
    ArviaProont
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    Clearly that proves 24h coverage is then not needed. If you don't do relevance checks you might as well relabel your paper as fake news
    Balrog99semiticgoddessProont
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    EMA states the AZ vaccine as beneficial beyond the risk. Some countries are restarting the vaccination again.

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots
    Proont
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Yay! My whole family decided to get vaccinated after all. They got the J&J vaccine before it was put on hold. I can't believe it after all of their anti-vax talk a couple months ago. I figured they were a lost cause. Got my second dose of Pfizer on Monday. Took me out all day Tuesday but it was worth it!
    Grond0bleusteelsemiticgoddessZaxares
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yay! My whole family decided to get vaccinated after all. They got the J&J vaccine before it was put on hold. I can't believe it after all of their anti-vax talk a couple months ago. I figured they were a lost cause. Got my second dose of Pfizer on Monday. Took me out all day Tuesday but it was worth it!

    It's the reverse psychology at play.

    What do you mean you don't want me to take that vaccine! Trump doesn't want it on hold, give it to me.
    Balrog99
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited April 2021
    deltago wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yay! My whole family decided to get vaccinated after all. They got the J&J vaccine before it was put on hold. I can't believe it after all of their anti-vax talk a couple months ago. I figured they were a lost cause. Got my second dose of Pfizer on Monday. Took me out all day Tuesday but it was worth it!

    It's the reverse psychology at play.

    What do you mean you don't want me to take that vaccine! Trump doesn't want it on hold, give it to me.

    Hard to basically give Trump credit for being in the lab himself when a family member can then say "you mean the vaccine you won't take??" Also goes to show how even a modicum of responsible rhetoric a year ago would have completely changed things.

    The Johnson and Johnson vaccine should not have been put on hold, but I don't think it made any meaningful difference. We no longer have a supply and demand problem. It's now about getting skeptics to decide to take it.
  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 1,481
    Just seen this article that speaks for itself - Spanish police detain man on suspicion of infecting 22 with Covid. If his alleged actions are true, whatever he gets sentenced with he deserves.

    TR
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    edited May 2021
    I see Ohio are offering lottery prizes of $1m to 5 people who've had the vaccine. While that may well encourage some people to get it, I'm not sure the underlying message is helpful.

    The basic selling point for this vaccine should be that it protects both you and other people. I'm concerned that giving incentives to people for taking the vaccine is likely to strengthen the conviction of anti-vaxxers that vaccines are actually bad for you and this is an attempt to convince people to act against their own best interests. I recognize of course the problem that almost anything done to promote vaccines is liable to be misinterpreted, but I still suspect that $5m could have been better spent by providing better explanatory materials and employing community representatives to distribute and explain those.
    Balrog99semiticgoddess
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2021
    The CDC is now recommending that people who are fully-vaccinated no longer need to wear masks indoors. All well and good. But my daily experience with MANY people when it comes to them reading things is they will focus on what they want to see (the no masks part) and are perfectly capable of ignoring the first part (fully vaccinated). This whole "honor system" thing seems a bit ham-handed to me. Everyone who doesn't want to wear a mask indoors and also doesn't have any intention of getting the vaccination are just going to SAY that they are vaccinated. People lie to themselves and others about things alot more trivial on a daily basis.

    I just flat-out no longer trust anyone who did everything they could to deny and minimize this from day 1. Never will again, on any issue. The only hope of firmly putting this thing away for good is if there might be JUST enough people who vaccinate to reach the threshold where the people who won't do so don't matter. But that's still a big if. My faith in my fellow citizens has fallen so low the last 14 months I'm not sure I'll ever get even a semblance of it back, on a personal level. The CDC is acting in good faith, as this is clearly an attempt to encourage vaccination. But I fear the darker side of human nature is more powerful.

    As for what @Grond0 mentions above, yes, ideally, if we lived in a nation full of functioning adults, protecting yourself and others should be all the "incentive" needed. But I certainly don't live in that country. I live in one where we're expected to gently nudge grown-ass adults into doing the right thing, and if you get sick of being expected to treat middle-aged people like toddlers, you're then ALSO responsible for hardening their anti-vaxx position for being a "scold" or "know-it-all". People are hoarding obscene amounts of gasoline because of what might be a 3-5 day shortage. It's a wonder anything functions at all in this country. I sometimes sit and wonder in amazement how everything hasn't already collapsed.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    Proontsemiticgoddess
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    The CDC is now recommending that people who are fully-vaccinated no longer need to wear masks indoors. All well and good. But my daily experience with MANY people when it comes to them reading things is they will focus on what they want to see (the no masks part) and are perfectly capable of ignoring the first part (fully vaccinated). This whole "honor system" thing seems a bit ham-handed to me. Everyone who doesn't want to wear a mask indoors and also doesn't have any intention of getting the vaccination are just going to SAY that they are vaccinated. People lie to themselves and others about things alot more trivial on a daily basis.

    I just flat-out no longer trust anyone who did everything they could to deny and minimize this from day 1. Never will again, on any issue. The only hope of firmly putting this thing away for good is if there might be JUST enough people who vaccinate to reach the threshold where the people who won't do so don't matter. But that's still a big if. My faith in my fellow citizens has fallen so low the last 14 months I'm not sure I'll ever get even a semblance of it back, on a personal level. The CDC is acting in good faith, as this is clearly an attempt to encourage vaccination. But I fear the darker side of human nature is more powerful.

    As for what @Grond0 mentions above, yes, ideally, if we lived in a nation full of functioning adults, protecting yourself and others should be all the "incentive" needed. But I certainly don't live in that country. I live in one where we're expected to gently nudge grown-ass adults into doing the right thing, and if you get sick of being expected to treat middle-aged people like toddlers, you're then ALSO responsible for hardening their anti-vaxx position for being a "scold" or "know-it-all". People are hoarding obscene amounts of gasoline because of what might be a 3-5 day shortage. It's a wonder anything functions at all in this country. I sometimes sit and wonder in amazement how everything hasn't already collapsed.

    Well, to be honest, I don't think the CDC would have made this announcement if they didn't have some kind of indication that we've turned a critical corner. I'm pretty sure they know about human nature...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    The CDC is now recommending that people who are fully-vaccinated no longer need to wear masks indoors. All well and good. But my daily experience with MANY people when it comes to them reading things is they will focus on what they want to see (the no masks part) and are perfectly capable of ignoring the first part (fully vaccinated). This whole "honor system" thing seems a bit ham-handed to me. Everyone who doesn't want to wear a mask indoors and also doesn't have any intention of getting the vaccination are just going to SAY that they are vaccinated. People lie to themselves and others about things alot more trivial on a daily basis.

    I just flat-out no longer trust anyone who did everything they could to deny and minimize this from day 1. Never will again, on any issue. The only hope of firmly putting this thing away for good is if there might be JUST enough people who vaccinate to reach the threshold where the people who won't do so don't matter. But that's still a big if. My faith in my fellow citizens has fallen so low the last 14 months I'm not sure I'll ever get even a semblance of it back, on a personal level. The CDC is acting in good faith, as this is clearly an attempt to encourage vaccination. But I fear the darker side of human nature is more powerful.

    As for what @Grond0 mentions above, yes, ideally, if we lived in a nation full of functioning adults, protecting yourself and others should be all the "incentive" needed. But I certainly don't live in that country. I live in one where we're expected to gently nudge grown-ass adults into doing the right thing, and if you get sick of being expected to treat middle-aged people like toddlers, you're then ALSO responsible for hardening their anti-vaxx position for being a "scold" or "know-it-all". People are hoarding obscene amounts of gasoline because of what might be a 3-5 day shortage. It's a wonder anything functions at all in this country. I sometimes sit and wonder in amazement how everything hasn't already collapsed.

    Well, to be honest, I don't think the CDC would have made this announcement if they didn't have some kind of indication that we've turned a critical corner. I'm pretty sure they know about human nature...

    I don't deny they have good reasons for doing so. The post isn't about science really, it's about people.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    The CDC is now recommending that people who are fully-vaccinated no longer need to wear masks indoors. All well and good. But my daily experience with MANY people when it comes to them reading things is they will focus on what they want to see (the no masks part) and are perfectly capable of ignoring the first part (fully vaccinated). This whole "honor system" thing seems a bit ham-handed to me. Everyone who doesn't want to wear a mask indoors and also doesn't have any intention of getting the vaccination are just going to SAY that they are vaccinated. People lie to themselves and others about things alot more trivial on a daily basis.

    I just flat-out no longer trust anyone who did everything they could to deny and minimize this from day 1. Never will again, on any issue. The only hope of firmly putting this thing away for good is if there might be JUST enough people who vaccinate to reach the threshold where the people who won't do so don't matter. But that's still a big if. My faith in my fellow citizens has fallen so low the last 14 months I'm not sure I'll ever get even a semblance of it back, on a personal level. The CDC is acting in good faith, as this is clearly an attempt to encourage vaccination. But I fear the darker side of human nature is more powerful.

    As for what @Grond0 mentions above, yes, ideally, if we lived in a nation full of functioning adults, protecting yourself and others should be all the "incentive" needed. But I certainly don't live in that country. I live in one where we're expected to gently nudge grown-ass adults into doing the right thing, and if you get sick of being expected to treat middle-aged people like toddlers, you're then ALSO responsible for hardening their anti-vaxx position for being a "scold" or "know-it-all". People are hoarding obscene amounts of gasoline because of what might be a 3-5 day shortage. It's a wonder anything functions at all in this country. I sometimes sit and wonder in amazement how everything hasn't already collapsed.

    Well, to be honest, I don't think the CDC would have made this announcement if they didn't have some kind of indication that we've turned a critical corner. I'm pretty sure they know about human nature...

    I don't deny they have good reasons for doing so. The post isn't about science really, it's about people.

    And if people, in the US, want to take the risk of getting COVID by not getting vaccinated and not wearing a mask, that is on them at this point. We need to get back to Normal eventually.

    We should be past the ‘what about the seniors’ because seniors should have been first in line to get vaccinated. Followed by other high risk individuals.

    I am also supposedly in a COVID hot spot in Ontario, so I am getting my vaccine next week (was suppose to be tomorrow, but I gotta work). My friends down the street aren’t in a hot spot, they’re kinda jealous atm, but their turn will come very soon I am sure.
    Balrog99
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    edited May 2021
    How much is the vaccination over there? Normal infection diseases require something like 90+% (I remember even a 92% number) to prevent outbreaks among the non vaccinated population. If the CDC recommends to lower protection not having reached close to those numbers then that seems very dumb. People can still carry and spread while being immunized.

    For decade people got educated on the effects of rubella, polio, small pox, etc, and people got their shots, and now so many people are ignoring the effects we see with covid. I really don't understand what's going on inside people's minds these days.

    I know some parents from school who are home bound because they somehow got it from either kids or supermarket months ago and they still cannot function normally. They get tired abnormally fast, have headaches, need dimmed lights everywhere, etc etc.
    semiticgoddessThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2021
    lroumen wrote: »
    How much is the vaccination over there? Normal infection diseases require something like 90+% (I remember even a 92% number) to prevent outbreaks among the non vaccinated population. If the CDC recommends to lower protection not having reached close to those numbers then that seems very dumb. People can still carry and spread while being immunized.

    For decade people got educated on the effects of rubella, polio, small pox, etc, and people got their shots, and now so many people are ignoring the effects we see with covid. I really don't understand what's going on inside people's minds these days.

    I know some parents from school who are home bound because they somehow got it from either kids or supermarket months ago and they still cannot function normally. They get tired abnormally fast, have headaches, need dimmed lights everywhere, etc etc.

    We're somewhere around 35% of the population at this point from what I can tell. Herd immunity would be a reasonable expectation at somewhere around 70% vaccination if I remember right (in other words, the virus doesn't have enough hosts to keep jumping). There has been a major slowdown recently. The people most likely to get vaccinated have done so. This is the difficult part. It's reasonable to assume the CDC is doing this as an incentive as much as anything else. Get the shot, take off your mask in 6 weeks. But my fear (as mentioned above) is that it's just going to be an excuse for EVERYONE to unmask, even though the guideline explicitly states only those fully vaccinated should do so.

    I'm not sure how businesses are supposed to handle this. There is no way to tell if the person who now won't wear a mask has actually been vaccinated or not. Even if you have a rule that they are, you're basically relying on the honor system. And there are scores of people I simply don't trust to tell the truth about this.

    While a reasonably large portion of the US has been inoculated, only 4% of the world population has. So, I mean, I'm not a doctor whose expertise is infectious diseases. I at least can safely assume the current Administration actually does give a shit. But we've half-assed everything about this as a society from the beginning. We've taken measures, but many of them have been largely symbolic, and the most effective ones were undermined by a minority of the population, but still did untold damage. My concern is that this particular change signals that COVID-19 is "over" more than any other has. And I don't think we'll know that for a few more months, when we'll have a true understanding of how many people are willing to get vaccinated and who is just never going to do so. But it is what it is. The cat is out of the bag now. Going back on this recommendation would give even more fodder to the lunatics, which is the last thing we need.
    semiticgoddess
  • jonesr65jonesr65 Member Posts: 66
    Until my wife retires at the end of July (and I'm fully vaccinated next week???) I'm staying masked out in public. I don't want to risk her getting sick again. After she is done working we both are still planning on staying masked up. We both had it back in November and neither one of us wants a repeat, and if we have to get a booster every year, hey it will be just like I get a flu shot once a year so no problem.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    jonesr65 wrote: »
    Until my wife retires at the end of July (and I'm fully vaccinated next week???) I'm staying masked out in public. I don't want to risk her getting sick again. After she is done working we both are still planning on staying masked up. We both had it back in November and neither one of us wants a repeat, and if we have to get a booster every year, hey it will be just like I get a flu shot once a year so no problem.

    There is a major push among even mainstream media outlets to draw an absolute equivalency between the people who didn't wear a mask during the height of the pandemic with people who are skeptical about taking them off now. That they are both being equally unreasonable. Even if we accept that premise as 100% accurate as a stipulation, the fact still remains that the amount of people who didn't wear masks resulted in a chain of events that got thousands of people killed, and wearing a mask, even if it isn't strictly necessary, hurts not a single soul. Yet, we've arrived at "Both Sides!!!!" once again.
    Proontsemiticgoddesselminster
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    There has to be some data we're not seeing. The CDC ruling, although welcome, don't get me wrong, is also very puzzling to me. I wish governments didn't treat people like children and spoon feed us everything except the "why"...
    jonesr65
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