Yeah, I remember thinking that my character romancing Anomen was like getting a stick in the eye. He's not all that likable a character, even when he's lawful good and at Lawful Neutral he's a flat out ass. I remember reading somewhere that someone made a mod that made Solaufein romance-able. If I had my druthers, I'd make Minsc romanceable, and if you made a female mage CHARNAME, he could choose you as his witch rather than Aerie. (Why not? If he could choose her, he could also choose the main character as his witch, but that never seems to come up.) And yeah, I know he's hilarious and just barely sane, what with Boo and all, but he's the most memorable male NPC from Baldur's Gate, and, at a plus, he's in both games, so your characters have history- as much as a male CHARNAME and Jaheira at that point. I would like to see Solaufein as a romanceable character as well, so you have a real bad boy (so to speak) to go for, and it would balance out Viconia with the male romances. As well, Solaufein is Neutral, as I remember, so while there would need to be an evil Male for CHARNAME to Romance, that would take care of two of them.
I am sorry, but I, as a woman, was really disappointed with the Romance with Anomen. While the male PC romance options really aren't so great, Anomen was just so disappointing that he comes off as staggeringly bad in comparison, like almost anyone else would have been better. (I can think of only a few character who would have been worse, and Tiax, Xxar, Montaron and Xan are about the only ones I think would have been worse choices.) Xan- "This romance is DOOOMED."
@LadyRhian This is my intention for this thread. Gay guys may feel left out of the BG romance options as well, but it seems the most glaring omission is for straight girls. BG has a lot of potential appeal for girl gamers, but with Anomen being the only choice, it affects the interest of a much larger social segment. A stick in the eye isn't the most endearing approach to the romance question...
But there have been some hopeful signs on the subject in Trent Oster's tweets, and this post from the BGEE writer who would be making this happen, Dave Gross:
Please, no official male gay romance, we're not filling a quota systems, want a gay romance? ask for the maintenance of the girdle of gender (the one cursed). no one here is asking for a lesbian romance (altrough i would really like one XD, maybe even a menage in that)...
Remember that D&D simulate an alternative past (mixed with a variety of other elements), so any gay romance in most of the common societies are probally an anathema.
Gay people really exist, it's not part of any quota to include them, it's just realistic. You're the child of a God, I think you have a bit of leeway to flout social conventions. Plus, if the Forgotten Realms was socially like Medieval times then other things that would be anathema include: -Women not being the property of first their fathers then husbands. In FR, it is pretty clear that there is gender equality, something we haven't even achieved *now*, let alone in the distant past. -Serfs not being tied to the land and people other than nobles having any opportunities at all. Most places in FR are clearly not properly feudal because quite frankly anywhere with feudalism is a terribly depressing place to live. -Paganism. Paganism everywhere.
And many more, of course. FR is not the middle ages, it is a fantasy setting that draws on a couple of medieval tropes. Nothing more. So I think complaining about gay relationships in FR while allowing people to play as a strong independant woman is quite hypocritical.
EDIT: Just found a quote I was looking for from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting sourcebook:
Elversult is the least Dragon Coast-ish city on the Dragon Coast. Its present ruler, a former adventurer named Yanseldara (NG female human Ftr11/Sor8) led a brilliant rebellion against the previous necromantic regime. Centuries of smuggling and intrigue cannot be undone in a decade, but those seeking dishonest deals now think twice before taking their business to Yanseldara's city, particularly since she leaves law enforcement to her consort and adventuring companion, Vaerana Hawklyn (CG female human Rgr20 of Mielikki).
If I had my druthers, I'd make Minsc romanceable, and if you made a female mage CHARNAME, he could choose you as his witch rather than Aerie. (Why not? If he could choose her, he could also choose the main character as his witch, but that never seems to come up.) And yeah, I know he's hilarious and just barely sane, what with Boo and all, but he's the most memorable male NPC from Baldur's Gate, and, at a plus, he's in both games, so your characters have history- as much as a male CHARNAME and Jaheira at that point.
[Snip]
(I can think of only a few character who would have been worse, and Tiax, Xxar, Montaron and Xan are about the only ones I think would have been worse choices.) Xan- "This romance is DOOOMED."
Isn't romancing Minsc kind of like romancing a child? I mean, he's a great lad and all but the man's functionally retarded. He takes advice from a hamster and talks about buttkicking for goodness. Him taking you as his witch is cool but a romance feels very, very wrong to me.
Also, Xan's romance mod in BG2 is actually pretty decent!
Ohhh @Communard, how bad i am for sharing my opinion! Let's start a witch hunt against that hypocritical!
1° Yes, i know gay ppl exist, i have kin and friends that are, never had a problem with them. The quota part was a joke, but now that i explained maybe you understand.
2° Of course FR is not in Middle Ages, but as most of the RPGs that exist it's BASED in middle ages and other ancient times of human history.
now look, you didn't flame my person to much yet, but used a inapplicable syllogism to force my opinion:
"So I think complaining about gay relationships in FR while allowing people to play as a strong independant woman is quite hypocritical."
So with this you force anyone that play a female character to your opinion.
It's wrong. As a based adventure the FR world structured itself with some basic values. The northern cities as Baldur's Gate, akhlata and others are more conservatives in this point, while rashemen and maybe Thay are less conservatives (that's my view with the facts that BG and IWD game present us).
Besides, i never say that a gay romance can't be done, i just say that i don't want one. Simple as that. it's my opinion, i'm not forcing this on anyone. I said i want a lesbian romance cos you like or not, the society IS patriarchal, it's rooted on our culture a greater tolerance in accept 2 girls togheter and to repudiate 2 boys togheter. If is right or not or if is good or bad is not the point, it's simple culture.
The problem with a gay romance in baldur's gate is the nature of romance scripts, i don't hate gay ppl, but on Baldur's Gate normally NPCs are who start the flirt with main char, when i broke or cut the progress of a romance with an NPC, normally i don't feel well after that with that NPC.
This happens cos, in real life a friendship is most of times broken when someone make an advance toward someone and is rejected, by roleplaying this, i normally always avoid more than one romance interest on the party and avoided play with solaufein after some time.
i'm a cool guy dude, but in real life another guy start to make love invests in me, i would not think twice before cut his invest, and believe me, there's no way to make this nice.
To finsh:
I don't want a gay romance, but if going to be done, make it in the right way, give main char the option to start the talk and use a character from a not too conservative society.
1° Yes, i know gay ppl exist, i have kin and friends that are, never had a problem with them. The quota part was a joke, but now that i explained maybe you understand.
2° Of course FR is not in Middle Ages, but as most of the RPGs that exist it's BASED in middle ages and other ancient times of human history.
The writers pick and choose what parts of the middle ages they want based on what will make a game more fun. I don't think that having the homophobia of the middle ages would make the game any more fun, any more than the sexism would.
now look, you didn't flame my person to much yet, but used a inapplicable syllogism to force my opinion:
"So I think complaining about gay relationships in FR while allowing people to play as a strong independant woman is quite hypocritical."
So with this you force anyone that play a female character to your opinion.
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, I'm saying that if you use the historical "realism" argument then it can also be applied to things like women and poor people, who were also oppressed in medieval society.
It's wrong. As a based adventure the FR world structured itself with some basic values. The northern cities as Baldur's Gate, akhlata and others are more conservatives in this point, while rashemen and maybe Thay are less conservatives (that's my view with the facts that BG and IWD game present us).
But there's literally nothing to base that on. I even posted you some evidence from the FR campaign setting that there are gay people there and it is not a big deal. We have no information on the situation of homosexuals on the Sword Coast. How would creating new cannon where they are oppressed make the game any more fun? That is what I am trying to understand.
Besides, i never say that a gay romance can't be done, i just say that i don't want one. Simple as that. it's my opinion, i'm not forcing this on anyone. I said i want a lesbian romance cos you like or not, the society IS patriarchal, it's rooted on our culture a greater tolerance in accept 2 girls togheter and to repudiate 2 boys togheter. If is right or not or if is good or bad is not the point, it's simple culture.
That's not my culture, I reject it because it's sexist. Since there is no sexism in the Forgotten Realms why would Faerun culture be more accepting of it?
The problem with a gay romance in baldur's gate is the nature of romance scripts, i don't hate gay ppl, but on Baldur's Gate normally NPCs are who start the flirt with main char, when i broke or cut the progress of a romance with an NPC, normally i don't feel well after that with that NPC.
This happens cos, in real life a friendship is most of times broken when someone make an advance toward someone and is rejected, by roleplaying this, i normally always avoid more than one romance interest on the party and avoided play with solaufein after some time.
All the romances have an option where you just say you're not interested and the characters drop it immediately. What is the problem? It's not like one guy making a pass at you is a big deal, you should be flattered!
i'm a cool guy dude, but in real life another guy start to make love invests in me, i would not think twice before cut his invest, and believe me, there's no way to make this nice.
There is a nice way, just say "I'm not interested". Same way you would if a girl you didn't like was into you. I don't get why it's such a big deal, dude.
I don't want a gay romance, but if going to be done, make it in the right way, give main char the option to start the talk and use a character from a not too conservative society.
So you want to deny an entire roleplay option just because you don't want a fictional dude to express that he might possibly be into you? It's a pretty hollow reason, isn't it?
Not trying to be prejudiced, but plz no gay romances (i really would like a bi woman NPC romanceable character... but no, better not).
It's not the fact of the character being gay, but the fact that most NPCs in games with this force you to develop the f****** romance in order to know the backgroud of the character, as normally many friendly banters with romanceable characters tend to this. Or at least keep the Barbies on the closet until main char take initiative and start the romance banter.
So basically what gay folks have to do every time they see a new romancable character?
Yeah, uh, I can cut the prejudice here with a knife.
I do believe that the setting that this game and so many others as well as movies and the DnD setting itself falls under is not called "Medieval Realism" but "Fantasy." Under the heading of fantasy, gay romance in the dark ages can be as vibrant and accepted as male ego issues are IRL. ;-) If one's fantasy is to kill gays, obviously that's an option in BG as well- with the appropriate Rep loss- but for those who want to romance gays with the full gamut of encounter nuances and dialog and not the least interference by the squeamish and needlessly bigoted, that too is available. Art is just about as judgmental as a 1201AD sidewalk... or a 2012 sidewalk...
But if real life is what is preferred, no, you cannot get to know an NPC's deeper, more intimate dialog if you're not in a romance with them... kinda like IRL... ;-) And I can live with that in either setting.
May I just say, The Forgotten Realms universe definitely has "houses of Assignation" aka whorehouses, if you want to call them that. In the Realms, they are more commonly known as Festhalls. There is a rather famous one in Waterdeep that uses Dopplegangers as employees, all with some kind of ESP so that no matter what you request, you get what you actually want. Now, I always saw festhalls as gender neutral- anyone can go and spend money to sleep with the, um, talent/employees, or even companions (as most festhalls will rent out rooms as well).
And I have read fantasy for years. Even in medieval-based (if just the aesthetics) fantasies, there are writers who are open to more than just festhalls/whorehouses being open to just men. I recall one universe where a variety of colored lanterns are hung on/next to the door to tell you what is available. Pink meant females for women, green was men for men, white was males for women (I think) and yellow was women for men, so you could tell from a glance if this particular house catered to what you wanted. And there is nothing to say that there isn't something similar in the Realms, because the mechanics of the Festhall are never discussed (except in some of the Volo's Guides, Volo talks about having multiple women in the room with him at once. We never learn what happens to the women who go there, because Volo isn't female.)
And @kamulzin- about cities being the most insular-no, that's not the way cities work. They are actually the most likely to allow this stuff to go on, even if has to happen behind closed doors. Cities tend to be more cosmopolitan than small villages, because of the large number of people who live there and the mixing of people from all over. Places like Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate are likely to be even more permissive in that regard because they are some of the largest cities on the continent. Places like the Moonshaes, I can see being that insular, yes. Even the largest cities there are small compared to the Main continent of the Realms. But Waterdeep? Baldur's Gate? No.
And @Drugar- you're right, I can see where you are coming from on that. But imagine a female CHARNAME who is a druid, ranger, or mage who can cast "Speak with Animals"... not only would you be able to talk to Boo, you'd also know his wisdom! ::Laughs.:: I can see Boo acting as Minsc's version of Cupid!
As for Xan's romance Mod, I've never seen or experienced it. I only saw PC mods and I had/have a Macintosh. I can only imagine romance with a depressive guy, though- not my cup of tea, to be honest!
@LadyRhian This is my intention for this thread. Gay guys may feel left out of the BG romance options as well, but it seems the most glaring omission is for straight girls. BG has a lot of potential appeal for girl gamers, but with Anomen being the only choice, it affects the interest of a much larger social segment. A stick in the eye isn't the most endearing approach to the romance question...
But there have been some hopeful signs on the subject in Trent Oster's tweets, and this post from the BGEE writer who would be making this happen, Dave Gross:
Well, I know that they aren't going to change Anomen's spoken romance lines at this late date, but one of my biggest problems with him as a character is that he's condescending when he first meets you "A woman alone could not have done all these deeds. Oh, you had help? Well, I suppose it's just barely possible, then." (paraphrased). That's a bad first impression to make on a woman who you want to romance!
Well, i read and learn a bit more of FR culture, i saw many points and i have to agree that there's some bases to gay behaviors on the game. I will check the waterdeep quote made by @LadyRhian anyway.
Not trying to be prejudiced, but plz no gay romances (i really would like a bi woman NPC romanceable character... but no, better not).
It's not the fact of the character being gay, but the fact that most NPCs in games with this force you to develop the f****** romance in order to know the backgroud of the character, as normally many friendly banters with romanceable characters tend to this. Or at least keep the Barbies on the closet until main char take initiative and start the romance banter.
So basically what gay folks have to do every time they see a new romancable character?
Yeah, uh, I can cut the prejudice here with a knife.
Sorry dude, and in a lack of euphemism i have to say that is your ignorance that create prejudice in this old comment of mine.
From all my posts you chose the wrost as an example, in this one my main request is:
If a gay romance had to happen, subject it to a main char invest script start and i pointed that cos not only in Baldur's Gate but in many games ONLY by investing in a romance with the target NPC you can fully develop and learn his entire history and background.
Let's say that Haer'dalis become an eligible gay romance possibility, a lot of new content would be add to him to do this and only by chasing the romance i would be able to learn his history or background. This is so true, that exist many unnoficial mods called "NPC friendship" where you don't chase a romance but yet learn the character history.
So with this, sorry dude, but you tried to unbury an old post to present me as a prejudice without sucess. Even my last post where i present my reasons for not like a gay romance in game have more intense positions than the one you quote.
If a gay romance had to happen, subject it to a main char invest script start. I asked that cos not only in Baldur's Gate but in many games ONLY by investing in a romance with the target NPC you can fully develop and learn his entire history and background.
Let's say that Haer'dalis become an eligible gay romance possibility, a lot of new content would be add to him to do this and only by chasing the romance i would be able to learn his history or background. This is so true, that exist many unnoficial mods called "NPC friendship" where you don't chase a romance but yet learn the character history.
So with this, sorry dude, but you tried to unbury an old post to present me as a prejudice without sucess. Even my last post where i present my reasons for not like a gay romance in game have more intense positions than the one you quote.
Did it ever occur to you that the only way gay people can get most of this content is by going through straight romances? I've RPed tonnes of straight and bi characters, especially in BG where it is practically forced on you, even though I'm gay. I didn't burst into flames, I wasn't driven mad, I didn't start carving pentagrams into my forearms, I just got into the mindset of a character with a different sexual orientation to myself. It's really not that difficult. That is what gay people are forced to do with ALL the romances in BG so far. All we want is *one* where we can play a gay character. Just one. One completely optional feature to give us what you have had since the game first came out.
From all my posts you chose the wrost as an example, in this one my main request is:
If a gay romance had to happen, subject it to a main char invest script start and i pointed that cos not only in Baldur's Gate but in many games ONLY by investing in a romance with the target NPC you can fully develop and learn his entire history and background.
Yeah, and I'll call you on your "wrost" so...
In any event, that's also not entirely true. With every single other NPC romance in BG, it's initiated by the NPC. Force talking to them with your player does nothing. Learning about them applies to every romancable NPC.
Let's say that Haer'dalis become an eligible gay romance possibility, a lot of new content would be add to him to do this and only by chasing the romance i would be able to learn his history or background. This is so true, that exist many unnoficial mods called "NPC friendship" where you don't chase a romance but yet learn the character history.
Awh, muffin, so you'll have to go through a romance that doesn't reflect you to find out more details about a character? You mean, exactly what LGBT people have to do right now? I feel SO sorry for you.
So with this, sorry dude, but you tried to unbury an old post to present me as a prejudice without sucess. Even my last post where i present my reasons for not like a gay romance in game have more intense positions than the one you quote.
The topic's still active, no? Besides, your other reasons, which were equally faulty, have already been countered and dealt with. This little gem here hadn't been.
Yes @Communard i understand that already for that reason I ELECTED 2 PROBLEMS:
1° - background content linked to romance. 2° - romances interest from NPCs shoud be chased by main char (he pursue the frist talks) before they start to make advances toward the Main Char (and i mean TO ALL ROMANCES).
Yeah, except @kamuizin, you fail to realize that your two problems apply to all romancable NPCs. So why then are you seeking to do nothing but deny content for people who desire nothing but representation, in a game where it'd only be realistic to give them some.
And of course, as in ME launch there had to be lesbian, gay, straight discussions. We don't care, the developers will do what they think is best, if you need erotic stories to read the internets has plenty. end of story.
Yes @Communard i understand that already for that reason I ELECTED 2 PROBLEMS:
1° - background content linked to romance. 2° - romances interest from NPCs shoud be chased by main char (he pursue the frist talks) before they start to make advances toward the Main Char (and i mean TO ALL ROMANCES).
Neither of these has anything to do with gay romances so I'm a little confused why you're bringing them up to argue against them...
Oh please, you think it's the "eroticism" that's an issue? Of course not, don't be ridiculous. All that we're asking for is the representation that straight people get, and nothing more.
I fail to see why this is such an issue, especially if they're already making new romances.
You are the one being ridiculous, asking for representation in a game ffs. It's ok if developers do it because they feel it adds to the story, not because you or the gay community ask/(want) for "representation".
It's the same as if for example I have 4 wives in real life so I demand representation, I should be able to have 4 wives in baldurs gate...
You do realize how ridiculous that argument sounds, right? You could make the exact same one for black people, or women, or, for that matter, anyone who isn't a straight white dude.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but "straight, white, cis male" isn't the norm, no matter how much you might think it is.
I fail to see why this is such an issue, especially if they're already making new romances.
That's a good point, dude. ;-)
And since the OP of this thread is primarily about women getting something better than Anomen, why would the concern be that a gay guy might hit on them? lol
Assertion: "Women need better than an insulting, conceited male chauvinist." Response: "Well, gay guys shouldn't have a romance either!"
The "norm" is whatever the developers want to do. My example is ridiculous as is your incapacity to understand that this is a computer game, set in dnd rules and not representative of our would. So everything you argue that is norm or not is irrelevant.
You are the one being ridiculous, asking for representation in a game ffs. It's ok if developers do it because they feel it adds to the story, not because you or the gay community ask/(want) for "representation".
It's the same as if for example I have 4 wives in real life so I demand representation, I should be able to have 4 wives in baldurs gate...
How common are gay people? How many gay people are in the target audience of BG:EE? Compare your estimates with those for people with 4 wives.
I don't want "representation". I want a wider choice of RP opportunities. Why should this option be excluded? Is it impossible for a straight person to want to RP a gay character? If so, the only possible race should be human, since BG players clearly have no imagination...
Unfortunately this is always a sticky subject to talk about (and it would be nice if people refrained from posting borderline homophobic comments) but both sides really need to dial it down.
If a gay romance is added, I only want it to be done right and feel natural (unlike the DA:O gay romance). But I won't pretend that a new romance (gay or otherwise) is a priority for me (Jaheira is the only one for my Ranger after all).
Not at all, and indeed, that's the point of these sorts of threads. Convincing the developers that this is something that's important to a lot of people, and is most definitely wanted. So if the developers care about the community, and these ones certainly do, then I fail to see your point whatsoever.
Also no, you can't redefine words at will, it just doesn't work like that. Human beings, that is to say people, are not all straight, white, cis men. Deal with the fact that the rest of us actually like having some representation in our entertainment, and move the hell on. If you don't like it, *gasp*, YOU don't have to play it.
The problem is that the rest of us? The ones who don't HAVE the option to play as a character that's meant to reflect ourselves? Yeah, we can't move on. We can't not play as something we dislike.
So sorry, love, but the world doesn't revolve around you, and it's long past time you realized that.
Besides, it's more content. Why are you against MORE choices in an Open World RPG?
@Tanthalas and @NWN_babaYaga already put it right, I'am not wasting more posts with "activists" because I'am sorry but thats what you sound like Ironrose. You judge based on our sad little world for which I care very little, your sentences are copy past gay drama so I'am not continuing it.
@Kamulzin- I looked it up- it's the Hanging Lantern Festhall, in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep. It's located in Dock Ward.
I also looked up some of the other character mods that might be available for the game. Y'know what bothers me far more than any gay romance option? One I found with a 15 year old romanceable female Paladin. Yes, I know in medieval times, people didn't live as long and matured faster. Noble women were married at 10 and bedded at 12, but that mod made me feel extremely uncomfortable- like it's barely on the side of pedophilia. I know fighters can possibly start the game at 16 (based on the 2e AD&D Player's Handbook- Humans get 15+ 1d4 for starting age), and in 1e, Paladins were 17+ 1d4 years (assuming that the other parts of the Paladin's training took longer than a straight fighter.) That 15... that bothers me, especially if you make the character romanceable. It feels... just this side of Pedophilia.
@Tanthalas and @NWN_babaYaga already put it right, I'am not wasting more posts with "activists" because I'am sorry but thats what you sound like Ironrose. You judge based on our sad little world for which I care very little, your sentences are copy past gay drama so I'am not continuing it.
@Tanthalas and @NWN_babaYaga already put it right, I'am not wasting more posts with "activists" because I'am sorry but thats what you sound like Ironrose. You judge based on our sad little world for which I care very little, your sentences are copy past gay drama so I'am not continuing it.
God forbid any of us queers start getting uppity. Why you even felt the need to post in this thread is beyond me, all you have contributed is petty insults and cheap jibes.
Comments
I am sorry, but I, as a woman, was really disappointed with the Romance with Anomen. While the male PC romance options really aren't so great, Anomen was just so disappointing that he comes off as staggeringly bad in comparison, like almost anyone else would have been better. (I can think of only a few character who would have been worse, and Tiax, Xxar, Montaron and Xan are about the only ones I think would have been worse choices.) Xan- "This romance is DOOOMED."
This is my intention for this thread. Gay guys may feel left out of the BG romance options as well, but it seems the most glaring omission is for straight girls. BG has a lot of potential appeal for girl gamers, but with Anomen being the only choice, it affects the interest of a much larger social segment. A stick in the eye isn't the most endearing approach to the romance question...
But there have been some hopeful signs on the subject in Trent Oster's tweets, and this post from the BGEE writer who would be making this happen, Dave Gross:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/18247/#Comment_18247
-Women not being the property of first their fathers then husbands. In FR, it is pretty clear that there is gender equality, something we haven't even achieved *now*, let alone in the distant past.
-Serfs not being tied to the land and people other than nobles having any opportunities at all. Most places in FR are clearly not properly feudal because quite frankly anywhere with feudalism is a terribly depressing place to live.
-Paganism. Paganism everywhere.
And many more, of course. FR is not the middle ages, it is a fantasy setting that draws on a couple of medieval tropes. Nothing more. So I think complaining about gay relationships in FR while allowing people to play as a strong independant woman is quite hypocritical.
EDIT: Just found a quote I was looking for from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting sourcebook:
Him taking you as his witch is cool but a romance feels very, very wrong to me.
Also, Xan's romance mod in BG2 is actually pretty decent!
1° Yes, i know gay ppl exist, i have kin and friends that are, never had a problem with them. The quota part was a joke, but now that i explained maybe you understand.
2° Of course FR is not in Middle Ages, but as most of the RPGs that exist it's BASED in middle ages and other ancient times of human history.
now look, you didn't flame my person to much yet, but used a inapplicable syllogism to force my opinion:
"So I think complaining about gay relationships in FR while allowing people to play as a strong independant woman is quite hypocritical."
So with this you force anyone that play a female character to your opinion.
It's wrong. As a based adventure the FR world structured itself with some basic values. The northern cities as Baldur's Gate, akhlata and others are more conservatives in this point, while rashemen and maybe Thay are less conservatives (that's my view with the facts that BG and IWD game present us).
Besides, i never say that a gay romance can't be done, i just say that i don't want one. Simple as that. it's my opinion, i'm not forcing this on anyone. I said i want a lesbian romance cos you like or not, the society IS patriarchal, it's rooted on our culture a greater tolerance in accept 2 girls togheter and to repudiate 2 boys togheter. If is right or not or if is good or bad is not the point, it's simple culture.
The problem with a gay romance in baldur's gate is the nature of romance scripts, i don't hate gay ppl, but on Baldur's Gate normally NPCs are who start the flirt with main char, when i broke or cut the progress of a romance with an NPC, normally i don't feel well after that with that NPC.
This happens cos, in real life a friendship is most of times broken when someone make an advance toward someone and is rejected, by roleplaying this, i normally always avoid more than one romance interest on the party and avoided play with solaufein after some time.
i'm a cool guy dude, but in real life another guy start to make love invests in me, i would not think twice before cut his invest, and believe me, there's no way to make this nice.
To finsh:
I don't want a gay romance, but if going to be done, make it in the right way, give main char the option to start the talk and use a character from a not too conservative society.
All the romances have an option where you just say you're not interested and the characters drop it immediately. What is the problem? It's not like one guy making a pass at you is a big deal, you should be flattered! There is a nice way, just say "I'm not interested". Same way you would if a girl you didn't like was into you. I don't get why it's such a big deal, dude. So you want to deny an entire roleplay option just because you don't want a fictional dude to express that he might possibly be into you? It's a pretty hollow reason, isn't it?
So basically what gay folks have to do every time they see a new romancable character?
Yeah, uh, I can cut the prejudice here with a knife.
But if real life is what is preferred, no, you cannot get to know an NPC's deeper, more intimate dialog if you're not in a romance with them... kinda like IRL... ;-) And I can live with that in either setting.
And I have read fantasy for years. Even in medieval-based (if just the aesthetics) fantasies, there are writers who are open to more than just festhalls/whorehouses being open to just men. I recall one universe where a variety of colored lanterns are hung on/next to the door to tell you what is available. Pink meant females for women, green was men for men, white was males for women (I think) and yellow was women for men, so you could tell from a glance if this particular house catered to what you wanted. And there is nothing to say that there isn't something similar in the Realms, because the mechanics of the Festhall are never discussed (except in some of the Volo's Guides, Volo talks about having multiple women in the room with him at once. We never learn what happens to the women who go there, because Volo isn't female.)
And @kamulzin- about cities being the most insular-no, that's not the way cities work. They are actually the most likely to allow this stuff to go on, even if has to happen behind closed doors. Cities tend to be more cosmopolitan than small villages, because of the large number of people who live there and the mixing of people from all over. Places like Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate are likely to be even more permissive in that regard because they are some of the largest cities on the continent. Places like the Moonshaes, I can see being that insular, yes. Even the largest cities there are small compared to the Main continent of the Realms. But Waterdeep? Baldur's Gate? No.
And @Drugar- you're right, I can see where you are coming from on that. But imagine a female CHARNAME who is a druid, ranger, or mage who can cast "Speak with Animals"... not only would you be able to talk to Boo, you'd also know his wisdom! ::Laughs.:: I can see Boo acting as Minsc's version of Cupid!
As for Xan's romance Mod, I've never seen or experienced it. I only saw PC mods and I had/have a Macintosh. I can only imagine romance with a depressive guy, though- not my cup of tea, to be honest!
Sorry dude, and in a lack of euphemism i have to say that is your ignorance that create prejudice in this old comment of mine.
From all my posts you chose the wrost as an example, in this one my main request is:
If a gay romance had to happen, subject it to a main char invest script start and i pointed that cos not only in Baldur's Gate but in many games ONLY by investing in a romance with the target NPC you can fully develop and learn his entire history and background.
Let's say that Haer'dalis become an eligible gay romance possibility, a lot of new content would be add to him to do this and only by chasing the romance i would be able to learn his history or background. This is so true, that exist many unnoficial mods called "NPC friendship" where you don't chase a romance but yet learn the character history.
So with this, sorry dude, but you tried to unbury an old post to present me as a prejudice without sucess. Even my last post where i present my reasons for not like a gay romance in game have more intense positions than the one you quote.
In any event, that's also not entirely true. With every single other NPC romance in BG, it's initiated by the NPC. Force talking to them with your player does nothing.
Learning about them applies to every romancable NPC. Awh, muffin, so you'll have to go through a romance that doesn't reflect you to find out more details about a character? You mean, exactly what LGBT people have to do right now? I feel SO sorry for you. The topic's still active, no? Besides, your other reasons, which were equally faulty, have already been countered and dealt with. This little gem here hadn't been.
1° - background content linked to romance.
2° - romances interest from NPCs shoud be chased by main char (he pursue the frist talks) before they start to make advances toward the Main Char (and i mean TO ALL ROMANCES).
end of story.
I fail to see why this is such an issue, especially if they're already making new romances.
It's the same as if for example I have 4 wives in real life so I demand representation, I should be able to have 4 wives in baldurs gate...
You could make the exact same one for black people, or women, or, for that matter, anyone who isn't a straight white dude.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but "straight, white, cis male" isn't the norm, no matter how much you might think it is.
And since the OP of this thread is primarily about women getting something better than Anomen, why would the concern be that a gay guy might hit on them? lol
Assertion: "Women need better than an insulting, conceited male chauvinist."
Response: "Well, gay guys shouldn't have a romance either!"
The power of deduction...
I don't want "representation". I want a wider choice of RP opportunities. Why should this option be excluded? Is it impossible for a straight person to want to RP a gay character? If so, the only possible race should be human, since BG players clearly have no imagination...
If a gay romance is added, I only want it to be done right and feel natural (unlike the DA:O gay romance). But I won't pretend that a new romance (gay or otherwise) is a priority for me (Jaheira is the only one for my Ranger after all).
Also no, you can't redefine words at will, it just doesn't work like that. Human beings, that is to say people, are not all straight, white, cis men. Deal with the fact that the rest of us actually like having some representation in our entertainment, and move the hell on. If you don't like it, *gasp*, YOU don't have to play it.
The problem is that the rest of us? The ones who don't HAVE the option to play as a character that's meant to reflect ourselves? Yeah, we can't move on. We can't not play as something we dislike.
So sorry, love, but the world doesn't revolve around you, and it's long past time you realized that.
Besides, it's more content. Why are you against MORE choices in an Open World RPG?
You judge based on our sad little world for which I care very little, your sentences are copy past gay drama so I'am not continuing it.
I also looked up some of the other character mods that might be available for the game. Y'know what bothers me far more than any gay romance option? One I found with a 15 year old romanceable female Paladin. Yes, I know in medieval times, people didn't live as long and matured faster. Noble women were married at 10 and bedded at 12, but that mod made me feel extremely uncomfortable- like it's barely on the side of pedophilia. I know fighters can possibly start the game at 16 (based on the 2e AD&D Player's Handbook- Humans get 15+ 1d4 for starting age), and in 1e, Paladins were 17+ 1d4 years (assuming that the other parts of the Paladin's training took longer than a straight fighter.) That 15... that bothers me, especially if you make the character romanceable. It feels... just this side of Pedophilia.
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_mods_npc_f.php
She's Saerlith in this list.