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DRM-free version

LandakLandak Member Posts: 4
edited July 2012 in Mac OS X (Archive)
Hi there,

I'm an avid fan of the BG series. Seriously, I'm a *massive* fan. As in, I can probably replay about 99% of the game from memory, and complete the whole triology regularly.

However, today's announcement of the OS X version of the game as being only available through the App Store *really* rather irritates me. I have a policy of never buying software which uses any form of DRM, and, as a consequence, I don't buy anything from any App Stores that use DRM of any kind. Apple does. I therefore would really love you to make the game available through other, independent shops (or even directly from your website!) so that I can give you money, play the game I want to, and not have to worry about it not working in the mysterious future (or on machines from the past). Heck, if you even put on a small DRM-free surcharge, I'd pay it.
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Comments

  • RisingsunRisingsun Member Posts: 99
    From what I understand the team is contractually obligated to put some form of DRM in all versions of the game.

    On the bright side the DRM that hey are implementing is as light as possible and on the Mac App Store you can redownload it an unlimited number of times and install it on as many machines as you want.

    Funny thing about the Mac App Store, is that you don't acutally have to use the Apple ID log in DRM system at all. Several indie games in the Mac App Store are DRM free and can be transferred freely using say a USB Thumbdrive. Of course you don't actually know which games are DRM free until you buy them and try to transfer them. If its not DRM free, it ask for you apple ID when you open it once, and then never asks again.
  • LandakLandak Member Posts: 4
    That's a real shame to hear. I know that, as far as DRM schemes go, Apple's is minimally invasive. However, it's really rather frustrating that publishers still haven't realised that all DRM schemes do is annoy legitimate consumers, and nothing else. As a consequence, I don't purchase anything with DRM on it, irrespective of the media. It's such a shame that Atari and/or Bioware and/or others have imposed this conditions for the remake; I was looking forward to buying it.
  • FuzzyPuffinFuzzyPuffin Member Posts: 289
    Risingsun said:

    If its not DRM free, it ask for you apple ID when you open it once, and then never asks again.

    Funny, I have never had anything from the App store ask for my Apple ID, except when updating or downloading.
  • RisingsunRisingsun Member Posts: 99
    edited July 2012
    @FuzzyPuffin

    Oh I meant if you moved the app on to another computer via a harddrive, tumbdrive or by some other means, if you tried to open it on a new computer after moving it like that, it would ask you to authenticate it only once, and never again, with your apple ID before opening it. I do this often cause I don't like having to download 10GB or more games for every one of my Macs. So I just download it once and move it around to my other machines with an external harddrive.

    That's how I found out that some games on the Mac App Store are actually DRM-Free and don't require a brief authentication when moving them from computer to computer.
  • ErrandwolfeErrandwolfe Member Posts: 11
    As long as I can download it to any of my mac's like almost every App Store app, I see no issue with Apple's "DRM" at all.

    Sadly the OP will soon have absolutely no games to play. But, as long as any DRM used in no way hinders my usage, its a non-issue for me. I support and salute the devs for releasing this on OS X and iOS. The fact they also seem to be planning to fully optimize each version for the Mac platforms they are being released on, should be encouraged by our sales...not complaints of a changing industry standard. By simply releasing this through the Mac App store...many, many more people will even know if its existence. More people will see it the day it's released than have visited this site so far, probably millions.
  • LandakLandak Member Posts: 4
    Apple's DRM might indeed be "minimally restrictive". But it's still restrictive, and it's still a personal impingement upon my freedom and liberty. I can run (windows!) BG2 on OS X quite happily through Wine, or in a virtual machine. Most DRM schemes won't let me do that with modern windows binaries. Tying it to the App Store restricts the binary to OS 10.7 and above -- yet I might have a machine with 10.6 on it, and have compelling reasons to not upgrade. You say that soon I'll have no games left to play. Yet competitors such as the Humble Indie Bundle (and numerous other studios) realise that DRM is insulting, expensive, and pointless. I'm sure that the cut Apple will take of the profits for distribution through its store will more than make up for any difference in sales lost due to piracy, because, well, there won't be any difference: the game will be available without paying for it anyway.

    I know that, in the grand scheme of things, I don't have much ground for complaint -- I mean, Sony's DRM installs a rootkit on your computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal]); Ubisoft requires an always-on internet connection(http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/07/ubisoft-drm-snafu-reminds-us-whats-wrong-with-pc-gaming) and makes it vulnerable to further security exploits (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/ubisoft-drm-exploit-opens-pcs-to-security-risk). The App store is minimally invasive, and unlikely to harm security. Yet, Jobs himself recognised that DRM is inherently bad (http://www.apple.com/uk/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/). It's also inherently stupid (analogous to giving you the keys to a lock in a sealed envelope, and telling you to open the envelope under certain circumstances), and, above all, punishes paying customers and not pirates (who, almost by definition, remove it!).

    It's for these reasons (and more) that I, as a scientist and a consumer, choose not to purchase products encumbered with DRM, and I try to encourage others to do the same. Baldur's Gate is a very, very dear series to me -- it ranks as one of the best video games I've ever played. I'm sure its fan-base consists of, frankly, people like myself. I therefore find it surprising that the labels would force us to use a DRM scheme, when, statistically speaking, this demographic is most likely to resent it and least likely to pirate it.
  • ErrandwolfeErrandwolfe Member Posts: 11
    edited July 2012
    Hey, keep fightin' the good fight then. :D I certainly think its admirable...but one day you will have nothing new to play anymore. DRM is here to stay. I'm sure the Windows version will also have DRM. Its unfortunate you won't be able to play this given your stance.
  • CodebakerCodebaker Member Posts: 23
    Everyone can do whatever he pleases to. For me it is for instance simply and plain:
    It is either available in the App-Store or I don't buy it.
    Working in the industry I can assure you, the majority of Apple Users sees it the same way.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    The game will be available through the App Store as well as direct through Beamdog, so you can still make that choice for yourself.
  • clocknovaclocknova Member Posts: 23
    As a long-time Mac user, I can tell you that the "majority" of Mac users do not see it the way Mr. Codebaker does. In fact, I tend to avoid the App Store for many reasons, some of which are evident here. If given the choice, I will always purchase directly from the developer first. I'm very, very glad to know that we're going to be given that opportunity now. Thanks.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited February 2013
    I don't now @clocknova 's reason, but my reason are the unreasonable limitations Apple enforces in the store. You can't have resident modules, it has to run in the sandbox and many others.

    That translates into no antivirus with a resident file scanner for instance, less powerful version of some programs, Alfred, for instance, comes to mind. If you buy or even download the free version straight from the developers you'll notice it's more powerful and flexible as it's not limited by Appstore guidelines.

    Basically I only use the Appstore for freeware. My commercial purchases are made straight from the developer. I believe the only exception to this I own is Growl as it's sold only through the store.

    Actually that is one of the reasons alternate stores are so popular, such as Bodega, for instance, that enforces only the rule of not distributing pirated software. You'll find many commercial titles for sale there.
    Post edited by mlnevese on
  • FuzzyPuffinFuzzyPuffin Member Posts: 289
    To add to @mineverse's reasons, it is impossible for developers to support upgrade pricing. You have to re-buy the app. This is less of a problem for games, though.
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    BTW, if you happen to have a Windows PC lying around, you can use the Beamdog client to get a version of the game which runs DMR-free on OS/X via Wineskin.

    I bought the game through the Beamdog client on Windows XP Pro, but it crashed like crazy on that machine due to the video card (ATI Radeon x300), so now I've got it running without a problem on OS/X 10.6 via Wineskin.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited February 2013
    Aosaw said:

    The game will be available through the App Store as well as direct through Beamdog, so you can still make that choice for yourself.

    When you log into your beamdog account and visit the BGEE page you see the 'install' button for the PC version stand alone.

    Will the MAC version be set up the same way, so that if you have purchased BGEE you can choose what version you want to install (PC or MAC) based on what down loader you pick?

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Thinking about this, if you have already purchased the game for PC and are buying it through Beamdog, will you need to re-purchase or not for the Mac edition? I obviously would if purchasing from the App store, and so am prepared to do so, I was just curious as to how it will be set up.
  • FuzzyPuffinFuzzyPuffin Member Posts: 289
    @Eudaemonium @bigdogchris your questions will be answered in due time. :)
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Thank you, @FuzzyPuffin. I've waited so long already a little bit more due time isn't really that much to ask. ;)
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @bigdogchris
    I don't know how it will be set up, but I imagine it will work the same way.

    @Eudaemonium
    We've got an announcement coming that will answer this and many other questions.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    @Aosaw, Coming like... today? Or perhaps in a temporal space labelled 'soon'?
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    @Eudaemonium

    It is always coming Soon :) Notice the capital S ;)
  • istaraistara Member Posts: 9
    Wow - compared to some of the DRM horrors out there - App Store is the least of my worries. At least I won't have to be scouring around to find "no-CD cracks" (I have a rMBP - go figure) or worrying about endless online authentication/saves.

    I just wish their "soon" was closer to my "soon", as in a few days, rather than centuries ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • RisingsunRisingsun Member Posts: 99
    PhillipDaigle said:

    The Mac OS X version will not have any DRM.

    Does that include the Mac App Store version too? I know for a fact that it is possible to distribute MAS apps that are DRM-free and that don't require you to authorize the app with your Apple ID if you were to move it to a new computer using a thumb drive or external hard drive.

    I know the Apple iWork apps are DRM-free and so are several indie games (VVVVV and Trine 1) and games from smaller developers like Hothead games. (Braid, and the penny arcade games) are DRM-free.
  • willwillwillwill Member Posts: 23
    Bhaaldog said:

    PhillipDaigle said:

    The Mac OS X version will not have any DRM.

    Pardon my ignorance on the subject but is there a reason why the Mac OS X does not have DRM and other platforms do? Just trying to increase my own knowledge on the topic.
    Based on my personal experience piracy is not that common on mac. I've seen lots of people starting to buy apps after buying a mac. Pirated software (with malware) does not fit in the same picture with shiny design hardware.
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    I wonder if that's part of why there are so few virus reports on OS/X.

    (Basing the system on a robust version of UNIX is probably part of that, too.)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • CodebakerCodebaker Member Posts: 23
    I am wondering. Why would I want a DRM free version?
    Forgive my ignorance, but I know only one reason why. Piracy.(That include installing the same license on more devices then agreed)

    Why App Store?
    Just speaking for me. I am buying digital contend from Apple since 2005 now. They never failed me. There was never any problem that wasn't solved. I trust them. And the past showed, if it wasn't available on App Store, it wasn't really worth the time. I am working in the industry and I have not the time to mess with some third parties and their support idea or definition of quality. Simply not worth the invested time.

    But DRM is evil, bad and limiting my freedom is against my interest?
    After the demise of the original Napster, the music industry was not openminded when it came to online download. Ha, no wonder why.
    It was Apples CEO that brought them back to online downloads. iTunes hat to follow the dictate of the music industry when it comes to DRM. And it was again said Apple CEO that convinced some years later the industry to adopt DRM free music downloads.
    Some other online music distribution platforms emerged after. This was only possible because the music industry was not tens anymore regarding online downloads.

    Apple did a great job for all, regardless if you admit it or not.

    Is DRM evil and limiting your freedom?
    No, because your freedom ends when it limiting the rights of others.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    The App store version will come. It only takes longer to get approval for new patches than downloading straight from the developer.
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