Wow! That's the cheapest offer I have ever seen for NWN 2 with all expansions!
Is it only a temporary offer that will expire after a while? Does Gamestop use some program you need to install in order to download their games? I am considering getting one extra copy and I've been waiting for an offer like that but will get to my main computer only after a few days.
@Yathrin It's not just NWN2. It's complete set for both 1 & 2. Yes, it's the cheapest you can ever get; I have no idea if it is a limited promo though.
I would choose the offer which lets me install only Storm of Zehir without original NWN 2 and Mask of Betrayer. I am considering getting an extra copy because I don't have Storm of Zehir.
Is it possible to download and install only Storm of Zehir at either GoG or Gamestop? I know that I will have to pay them for the whole package but is it possible to download only the Storm of Zehir expansion from the bundle?
Special offers at GoG and Gamestop have ended and they are selling the game at normal prices again. Now the game goes for $19.99 at GoG and $29.99 at Gamestop.
*fails to stifle huge yawn* Exactly, why don't you live your own life instead of that of your character? :P
I don't mind roleplaying in a game... but to just sit outside the Friendly Arm Inn for 4-5 hours a day doing nothing but "roleplaying".... Just... lol
I played on BG:TSCC for a while. The world itself is wonderful. Very well fleshed out and in a lot of ways very true to the BG games in their layout. I think the developers did a wonderful job incorporating a huge variety of elements into the game ranging from full customization of your character to loads of places to visit. Top marks for the work done.
However......
I do share your sentiment above. Playing there always felt like you had to sit around the Friendly Arm in Campfire for hours and hours 'Chatting' with varying levels of role players that ranged from mediocre all the way down to horrible. There are some shining lights in the bunch, but.... There were also some turnips. And there is absolutely a focus by the developers away from rewarding adventuring and towards chatting around the fire. Which is fine, if that is what you want out of a game like that. But can be pretty much a yawn fest if you have to sit around for 5-6 hours doing nothing but 'Furthering a story line'. Quite frankly, I don't have that kind of time to devote to gaming.
Don't get me wrong, I think that it is a lovingly crafted world with a whole lot to offer. But just be aware that they want you to bring your own soap opera with you and enough companions to play it with you.
@Schneidend - Why did you respond to a trollpost from two months ago?
Because you didn't, obviously. Somebody had to pick up the slack.
Though, in all seriousness, the post I responded to was directed at me, despite never getting a notification.
And, honestly? How am I supposed to detect trolling on a forum devoted to an AD&D video game? AD&D attracts plenty of hyperbolic grognards who can never be satisfied with anything that isn't that-one-module-they-played-fifteen-years-ago.
When your character reaches maximum level and you complete all of the quests, visit most of the maps and monsters and collect a sufficient number of nice items, the game does boil down very much to interaction with other players. You can get some variety by interacting with characters controlled by Dungeon Masters or participating in their events and quests but this doesn't happen often enough. This is a problem with many persistent worlds in Neverwinter Nights. Many players start a second character and begin doing the same things all over again. One thing which is good about BG:TSCC in this respect is that the world is divided into a world on the surface and a world in the Underdark. Since these two worlds are separate from each other because characters can rarely cross the boundaries, for some players making one character on the surface and another character in the Underdark might prolong the interest in playing there.
As I said, online play is much different than playing in a SP solo environment. When involved in online play (especially a PW) one is subject to the rules, the whims of the Staff, DMs, and yes, other players. Whereas in an SP (single player) solo environment, you alone decide on how you choose to play, where you will go, what you will do.
Sitting in front of a campfire with other (real) players, who are more or less in character, and shooting the breeze (for lack of a better description ) is often "teh r0xx0rs" of a RP orientated PW (online experience).
As one has outlined here (@Yathrin), often, one has explored fully the extent of "the game" (in this case the PW) and is left with...what? Exactly, that which is left over - other players.
Thankfully, if the RP server (PW) is any good, it has a dedicated group of DMs - who are very interested in providing continuing RP goodness for those who have exhausted the pre-programmed meal.
Now the real game, begins, my friends...welcome to real online gaming!
Oh, absolutely. The creators of the game are 100% within their rights to create/maintain their world the way they choose. No question there.
And equally no question that SP experience is different from MP experience.
All I was saying was that their flavor of MP experience was different from other MP experiences I have had and seemed "TO ME" to be quite a bit more focused on the camp-fire chats than actually adventuring. And that wasn't what I would have done. But they are perfectly within their rights to have it be that way.
And equally there is definitely some fun to be had there.
I might be wrong, but I don't recall there being a campfire at the Friendly Arms Inn any more. *Scratches head*
I think it was removed a while ago after being demolished by an unchecked Orc invasion. Blame the lazy player defenders. Anyhow, you're responsible for your own fun. If you spend time chatting with others thats fine if its fun. But if you want to adventure then there's no one stopping you from forming a group and going out and about. Or you can do Quests! Or you can ask a DM for a personal event for your character. And so on...
Its the diversity thats awesome. Don't be afraid of chatting up other players and see if they want to form a party to explore some old ruins. Or to deal with some nearby Orcs.
Or you can lead them to their deaths and then quickly get out of there. *hehehe*
I've been playing at BG for a few months now and I've not even seen more than 25% of the server. Its pretty and its large. And there's many players to play with. That's also a big boon. Plus there is a dedicated group of DMs and player run Guilds.
@Boooom, I was composing a reply, but it really boils down to your experiences on that world being significantly different than mine.
At the end of the day, there is a lot of fun to be had there. No denying it. I simply reiterate that my experiences suggest a very high focus on what I call 'Facebooking' around the fire place rather than adventuring. But this may merely be my experiences and things may have changed since I was there.
How are server loads? This sounds interesting and appealing, but I'd rather not fork over a 20 for a copy of NWN only to end up not being able to play because the servers are full...
@Lord_Tansheron, when I played there, there were definitely peaks and valleys. During evenings and weekends it could get quite packed and I quite frequently had to wait for a slot to be open before joining. I am not sure what it is like today, but I can surmise that it hasn't changed much. If you are playing during off hours, you should have no problems. However, that also means fewer people to team up with. But as has already been said, there is a lot to explore and like there. So naturally it is popular.
Also, during DM events, there tends to be quite significant lag. This is merely the nature of the beast but it can get annoying.
As for dropping a 20 on NWN2, I'd say it is worth it. If you don't play TSCC, there are other PWs out there worth playing. And even the single player game and expansions are worth the money, not to mention the hundreds or thousands of custom made modules to play. I personally really enjoyed Mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zehir. The latter is more of a party based adventure and is closer to the Baldur's Gate feel. It isn't as good as BG, but it is closer to that feel. Provided you are good with playing 3.5 edition.
Things are getting interesting at BGTSCC. There are 10-12 new prestige classes with lots of new feats and spells in development and two of them have been added this week.
i have few questions for this online baldur's gate -dnd version? -is there a video of like skills, quests, items in the game etc.?
- It uses 3.5 edition of DnD. - There are still no youtube video trailers showing BGTSCC.
The best and most rare magical items there are things like boots of +4 dodge ac, amulet of +4 natural armor, ring or cloak of +4 deflection ac or a +4 weapon with some random extra properties.
I'm gonna recieve a lot of flak for this "short review" about the NWN2 pw scene. I want to make it clear it's not an attack to any server out there (not that I particularly care, to tell the truth - I have chosen not to play NWN2 multiplayer anymore). I don't want to insult the couple of thousands of guys left who do play on those persistant worlds. I don't know what the current situation is on the BG pw. I'm just going to write down a bunch of considerations I made over the years, according to my experience. I am going to talk about common trends I've seen on pretty much every server I spent a lot of time on; I have no reason to believe things have changed in any particular way, because it's been the same for years, until I decided to just stop.
Anyway, don't expect to join a PW and get anything even remotely comparable to a classical D&D feeling. There are some fundamental problems that literally drove me away from pws, and they become painstakingly obvious if you happen to play pencil and paper D&D. I'll name a few; however, this is by no means an exhaustive list.
Powergaming is the norm - that's ok if you're into powergaming yourself. But if you play a character without optimizing him and instead choosing to stat him up as you level to fit his story (I don't know, taking the Alertness feat, or giving your rogue cha 16 just cause), you're gonna be overshadowed left and right. Like literally, you're gonna be a pushover 90% of the time. Expect to be gimped if you don't play a caster. I've played on servers where the maximum available loot was something like a +3 sword that gave +2 fire damage. By comparison, by the time you got such an item, gish characters were running around with a +5 keen flaming thundering weapon. Five levels before your fighter gets a +3 scarab of protection, clerics get spells like death ward, which don't give them saving throw bonuses - they give them complete immunity to whatever they need to be immune to. No player character is going to stay dead (unless the player gets bored and wraps it up with some "epic standoff"). Personally, I find this expecially irritating - imagine if Sarevok kept returning to life, without losing his Bhaal powers, gear, money, allies... You kill him, he just respawns and keeps going. It's nonsensical, it makes it impossible to get rid of enemies, and it makes the server stagnate, since it's going to be the same two dozens of dudes for years. Don't expect to accomplish anything major (or even anything that is trivial for your epic character, but major for the rest of the world); a lot of times I've seen players struggling to get "big" things done (if you can call closing a single portal "big", for example), actually do them, and then some other random player shows up and undoes whatever was accomplished. Back to square one. NPC levels don't really make sense. Usually you have guards that are level 10+, mage NPCs that are even higher level, level 15 bandits (and I'm talking about mooks robbing people in the forest- incidentally, a beholder is supposedly CR 12, so a couple of those bandits should be able to slap one around, I guess), epic level orcs (and no, I'm not talking about a warchief - I'm talking about entire tribes of epic level orcs). I've seen DMs complain that players of a faction never attacked their enemies settlements - that was hilarious in hindsight, because those players had no way to even make a dent into the infinite horde of high level NPC mooks that DMs would drop on them, had they decided to actually invade - not that in that particular case they didn't try, they just stopped as soon as they realized it was suicidal. Any pnp DM worth his salt would probably agree that the average campaign those levels make no sense. Does it make for better gameplay? Imho no, if you have to be level 15 even to be on par with an average joe from the city watch, and even if you manage to get to level 30 (and you eventually will, because you don't die), you're going to be told that your character still isn't all that powerful compared to the rest of the world. That also raises a lot of in game questions, such as why don't the high level bandits go to the starting village where guards are lower level, obliterate them, and take control of the settlement? A lot of fellow players play to win (granted not all of them, but enough to make it a more than relevant point). They're gonna go out of their way so that their character doesn't lose a single in game confrontation - and they are going to chicken out in case they think there's a chance they might lose (nevermind their character is supposedly a raging, short tempered barbarian). In case they lose, they might throw a fit or become all passive aggressive. Now I don't particularly care about this aspect because I happen to like PvP in mmorpgs (and oh, isn't the NWN2 PvP lame in comparison to any other good mmorpg), but you can expect all sorts of things, ranging from characters "randomly" wandering to the location where to are, to characters gaining a sixth sense telling them that they are going to be the target of an attack on this particular day of the week (and so they should act with extra paranoia today), to characters accusing you of being evil out of the blue (because you know, aura of despair). Not that confrontation really happens a lot, to be fair, because most of the time roleplay consists in sitting somewhere to chit chat about the weather, virtual relationships, who's stronger, and the last DM quest. If you're playing an evil-character-that-pretends-he's-not-evil (the other option consists in having your obviously evil character familiarize with the horde of high level good characters that are already estabilished on the server), you get another option, which is to plot everyone else's demise (not that you can kill them permanently in the first place, but it helps you pass the time). If a DM runs a quest, rest assured that pretty much all the server is going to show up because hey, we're gonna get xp and loot from it, and it's not like we have anything better to do, since we can't advance by grinding monsters anymore. That leads to awkward situations like paladins knocking at Castle Dread's door to "face the common enemy" (I've seen that happen, believe me). That's a few of the problems that immediately come to my mind. There are many more, going from design problems to player base attitude.
In conclusion, the whole thing doesn't work for me. If you have no other way to enjoy some nice D&D (maybe because no one plays in your area), by all means, try NWN2 out. Just don't expect too much out of the experience, because in that case you're going to be disappointed.
---
tl;dr: play on a NWN2 pw only if you need your D&D daily fix or if you have low standards.
Comments
Is it only a temporary offer that will expire after a while? Does Gamestop use some program you need to install in order to download their games? I am considering getting one extra copy and I've been waiting for an offer like that but will get to my main computer only after a few days.
Go with GoG - support DRM free.
It's not just NWN2. It's complete set for both 1 & 2. Yes, it's the cheapest you can ever get; I have no idea if it is a limited promo though.
@decado
What's so different with Gamestop client?
@Korlamaq
There's Dungeons and Dragons Online and the upcoming Neverwinter (online). I've read good things about the former.
Is it possible to download and install only Storm of Zehir at either GoG or Gamestop? I know that I will have to pay them for the whole package but is it possible to download only the Storm of Zehir expansion from the bundle?
Why did you respond to a trollpost from two months ago?
However......
I do share your sentiment above. Playing there always felt like you had to sit around the Friendly Arm in Campfire for hours and hours 'Chatting' with varying levels of role players that ranged from mediocre all the way down to horrible. There are some shining lights in the bunch, but.... There were also some turnips. And there is absolutely a focus by the developers away from rewarding adventuring and towards chatting around the fire. Which is fine, if that is what you want out of a game like that. But can be pretty much a yawn fest if you have to sit around for 5-6 hours doing nothing but 'Furthering a story line'. Quite frankly, I don't have that kind of time to devote to gaming.
Don't get me wrong, I think that it is a lovingly crafted world with a whole lot to offer. But just be aware that they want you to bring your own soap opera with you and enough companions to play it with you.
Though, in all seriousness, the post I responded to was directed at me, despite never getting a notification.
And, honestly? How am I supposed to detect trolling on a forum devoted to an AD&D video game? AD&D attracts plenty of hyperbolic grognards who can never be satisfied with anything that isn't that-one-module-they-played-fifteen-years-ago.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great world. But it does have flaws as well.
Sitting in front of a campfire with other (real) players, who are more or less in character, and shooting the breeze (for lack of a better description
As one has outlined here (@Yathrin), often, one has explored fully the extent of "the game" (in this case the PW) and is left with...what? Exactly, that which is left over - other players.
Thankfully, if the RP server (PW) is any good, it has a dedicated group of DMs - who are very interested in providing continuing RP goodness for those who have exhausted the pre-programmed meal.
Now the real game, begins, my friends...welcome to real online gaming!
And equally no question that SP experience is different from MP experience.
All I was saying was that their flavor of MP experience was different from other MP experiences I have had and seemed "TO ME" to be quite a bit more focused on the camp-fire chats than actually adventuring. And that wasn't what I would have done. But they are perfectly within their rights to have it be that way.
And equally there is definitely some fun to be had there.
I think it was removed a while ago after being demolished by an unchecked Orc invasion. Blame the lazy player defenders.
Anyhow, you're responsible for your own fun. If you spend time chatting with others thats fine if its fun. But if you want to adventure then there's no one stopping you from forming a group and going out and about. Or you can do Quests! Or you can ask a DM for a personal event for your character. And so on...
Its the diversity thats awesome. Don't be afraid of chatting up other players and see if they want to form a party to explore some old ruins. Or to deal with some nearby Orcs.
Or you can lead them to their deaths and then quickly get out of there. *hehehe*
I've been playing at BG for a few months now and I've not even seen more than 25% of the server. Its pretty and its large. And there's many players to play with. That's also a big boon. Plus there is a dedicated group of DMs and player run Guilds.
Also worth mentioning is this:
http://bgtscc1.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31261
Check out those Darkhold screenshots! Its amazing :O
At the end of the day, there is a lot of fun to be had there. No denying it. I simply reiterate that my experiences suggest a very high focus on what I call 'Facebooking' around the fire place rather than adventuring. But this may merely be my experiences and things may have changed since I was there.
Also, during DM events, there tends to be quite significant lag. This is merely the nature of the beast but it can get annoying.
As for dropping a 20 on NWN2, I'd say it is worth it. If you don't play TSCC, there are other PWs out there worth playing. And even the single player game and expansions are worth the money, not to mention the hundreds or thousands of custom made modules to play. I personally really enjoyed Mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zehir. The latter is more of a party based adventure and is closer to the Baldur's Gate feel. It isn't as good as BG, but it is closer to that feel. Provided you are good with playing 3.5 edition.
-dnd version?
-is there a video of like skills, quests, items in the game etc.?
- There are still no youtube video trailers showing BGTSCC.
The best and most rare magical items there are things like boots of +4 dodge ac, amulet of +4 natural armor, ring or cloak of +4 deflection ac or a +4 weapon with some random extra properties.
Anyway, don't expect to join a PW and get anything even remotely comparable to a classical D&D feeling.
There are some fundamental problems that literally drove me away from pws, and they become painstakingly obvious if you happen to play pencil and paper D&D.
I'll name a few; however, this is by no means an exhaustive list.
Powergaming is the norm - that's ok if you're into powergaming yourself. But if you play a character without optimizing him and instead choosing to stat him up as you level to fit his story (I don't know, taking the Alertness feat, or giving your rogue cha 16 just cause), you're gonna be overshadowed left and right. Like literally, you're gonna be a pushover 90% of the time.
Expect to be gimped if you don't play a caster. I've played on servers where the maximum available loot was something like a +3 sword that gave +2 fire damage. By comparison, by the time you got such an item, gish characters were running around with a +5 keen flaming thundering weapon. Five levels before your fighter gets a +3 scarab of protection, clerics get spells like death ward, which don't give them saving throw bonuses - they give them complete immunity to whatever they need to be immune to.
No player character is going to stay dead (unless the player gets bored and wraps it up with some "epic standoff"). Personally, I find this expecially irritating - imagine if Sarevok kept returning to life, without losing his Bhaal powers, gear, money, allies... You kill him, he just respawns and keeps going. It's nonsensical, it makes it impossible to get rid of enemies, and it makes the server stagnate, since it's going to be the same two dozens of dudes for years.
Don't expect to accomplish anything major (or even anything that is trivial for your epic character, but major for the rest of the world); a lot of times I've seen players struggling to get "big" things done (if you can call closing a single portal "big", for example), actually do them, and then some other random player shows up and undoes whatever was accomplished. Back to square one.
NPC levels don't really make sense. Usually you have guards that are level 10+, mage NPCs that are even higher level, level 15 bandits (and I'm talking about mooks robbing people in the forest- incidentally, a beholder is supposedly CR 12, so a couple of those bandits should be able to slap one around, I guess), epic level orcs (and no, I'm not talking about a warchief - I'm talking about entire tribes of epic level orcs). I've seen DMs complain that players of a faction never attacked their enemies settlements - that was hilarious in hindsight, because those players had no way to even make a dent into the infinite horde of high level NPC mooks that DMs would drop on them, had they decided to actually invade - not that in that particular case they didn't try, they just stopped as soon as they realized it was suicidal. Any pnp DM worth his salt would probably agree that the average campaign those levels make no sense. Does it make for better gameplay? Imho no, if you have to be level 15 even to be on par with an average joe from the city watch, and even if you manage to get to level 30 (and you eventually will, because you don't die), you're going to be told that your character still isn't all that powerful compared to the rest of the world. That also raises a lot of in game questions, such as why don't the high level bandits go to the starting village where guards are lower level, obliterate them, and take control of the settlement?
A lot of fellow players play to win (granted not all of them, but enough to make it a more than relevant point). They're gonna go out of their way so that their character doesn't lose a single in game confrontation - and they are going to chicken out in case they think there's a chance they might lose (nevermind their character is supposedly a raging, short tempered barbarian). In case they lose, they might throw a fit or become all passive aggressive.
Now I don't particularly care about this aspect because I happen to like PvP in mmorpgs (and oh, isn't the NWN2 PvP lame in comparison to any other good mmorpg), but you can expect all sorts of things, ranging from characters "randomly" wandering to the location where to are, to characters gaining a sixth sense telling them that they are going to be the target of an attack on this particular day of the week (and so they should act with extra paranoia today), to characters accusing you of being evil out of the blue (because you know, aura of despair).
Not that confrontation really happens a lot, to be fair, because most of the time roleplay consists in sitting somewhere to chit chat about the weather, virtual relationships, who's stronger, and the last DM quest. If you're playing an evil-character-that-pretends-he's-not-evil (the other option consists in having your obviously evil character familiarize with the horde of high level good characters that are already estabilished on the server), you get another option, which is to plot everyone else's demise (not that you can kill them permanently in the first place, but it helps you pass the time).
If a DM runs a quest, rest assured that pretty much all the server is going to show up because hey, we're gonna get xp and loot from it, and it's not like we have anything better to do, since we can't advance by grinding monsters anymore. That leads to awkward situations like paladins knocking at Castle Dread's door to "face the common enemy" (I've seen that happen, believe me).
That's a few of the problems that immediately come to my mind. There are many more, going from design problems to player base attitude.
In conclusion, the whole thing doesn't work for me. If you have no other way to enjoy some nice D&D (maybe because no one plays in your area), by all means, try NWN2 out. Just don't expect too much out of the experience, because in that case you're going to be disappointed.
---
tl;dr: play on a NWN2 pw only if you need your D&D daily fix or if you have low standards.
---
Vetril.