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Odd lore discrepancies in BG2 (elves sleep, can't see in the dark, etc)

I am noticing some odd lore discrepancies. Those are mostly amusing but occasionally bother me.
So far the 2 most obvious lore discrepancies I have notices are:
1. All 3 romanceable females are elves, and all 3 apparently sleep, even though elves do not sleep.
2. Aerie random banter contains a complaint about not being able to see monsters in the dark. Even though elves (and practically every other race other than humans) has infravision
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Comments

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Elves can sleep. They just usually choose not to, because reverie is functionally superior. An elf who is especially exhausted sometimes won't even have the option, and will simply pass out like a normal human.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I suppose "sleep" is used out of convenience, because people not familiar with D&D lore might be confused otherwise, and require a potentially lengthy explanation.

    The infravision thing is definitely somewhat out of place, it's even mentioned in the racial description, isn't it?
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    Well, Aerie is a special elf... Maybe the avariel don't get Infravision and she only has it because in-game mechanics treat her as a normal elf?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    If the monsters are cold-blooded they won't be visible in infravision, their body temparature will be e same with their surroundings, making them invisible to infravision.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Cold blooded creatures are just harder to see, not fully invisible. And even then that requires them to staying still...moving around raises their temperature and makes it obvious where they are. (it's mentioned several times in the novels, especially the Underdark centric ones)
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    Elves don't sleep?

    I've never heard that before. Well, you learn something new every day, I guess.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    I think most underdark monsters are cold-blooded, kuo-toas, mind flayers, etc. Not sure about the beholder-kin. Dark elves are warm-blooded, that's for sure. So those cold blood monsters can stay still and wait for an ambush in the dark and infravision won't be much of help, if I understand correctly. ^^
  • lamaroslamaros Member Posts: 139
    Umm... I'm not sure if some people here understand what cold-blooded means.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    I am sorry if I made any blatant scientific mistakes, I am not an expert on the subject, obviously. I always thought cold-blooded animals have no-fixed body temperature, their temperatures and metabolism rise and fall in accordance to the environment. That's why some turtles, crocodiles etc. like to bask in the sun, to get warmer and speed up their metabolisms.

    Warm blooded animals like mammals have a much narrower body temperature range, and usually don't get adjusted with the environment too much. Hypertermia and especially hypotermia is rare in warm-blooded beings, unless the environment is freezing, in which case the body can't keep up its natural temperature and AFAIK this condition is quite deadly for warm-blooded beings. I've heard a snake will be sluggish and almost like frozen in snow, but when it melts it can recover later. A human frozen in snow, will ofcourse be dead in almost all cases. Although hypotermia helps some people survive if they are drowned in extremely cold waters. It is suggested that the freezing cold drops down the brain metabolism so the brain, usually exceptionaly vulnerable to damage from lack of oxygen, can survive for longer amounts of time. There are cases of children who survived being drowned and underwater for long periods of time, thanks to the freezing temperature of the water they were in.

    If a human is in a relatively cold room, he will flare up in infravision with bright oranges and reds, when compared to dark and blue of the room. If a turtle is in the room, after some time its body will be the same temperature with the room, and he will blend in with the blue colors of the room in infravision, so I guess it will be harder to detect.

    ...or I've watched Predator movies one too many times when I was a child :-D
  • lamaroslamaros Member Posts: 139
    edited September 2013
    A cold blooded animal might have a variable body temperature, but it won't be 0.

    It also wont be able to operate efficiently at a very low temperature (ie, move swiftly, etc).

    It also wont ever be as active in general.

    So the idea that something cold-blooded being active but having a very low temperature is just wrong. As is the idea that a cold blooded animal can regulate its own temperature irrespective of external inputs. Or that something can sit in the darkness without any body heat at full efficiency and/or jump to full efficiency.

    Here is a wiki graph: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Homeothermy-poikilothermy.png/250px-Homeothermy-poikilothermy.png
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Movement though warms up the body and while its minor, it would stand out A LOT compared to a rock or what not. Even just breathing would cause the area around their chest cavity to be slightly warmer then the surroundings.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    "I've had this little problem ever since I was a wee gnome. When it gets dark, everybody glows red. Frightens a child something fierce..."

    Infravision is perhaps the single most useless ability in the Baldur's Gate series. I appreciate that it's useful in PnP and lore-friendly, but Aerie missing it doesn't bother me.
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    I love how genuinely nerdy these forums can get sometimes. lol.

    I had thought that Elves did sleep it was just called something different because it served other/different biological functions than sleep?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    Elves are actually physically incapable of sleeping. It's why they're IMMUNE to sleep effects.

    I don't have my books handy atm, but it's something to do with what amounts to an elf hive-mind type thing related to the Elf-soul (it's also why they're nearly impervious to charm effects, there's a ton of interference). Instead of sleeping, they tap into the Revery which restores their stamina while they remain fully awake, and does twice as fast as sleeping does, and never suffers any ill effects due to resting in armor or low quality surroundings (such as a human sleeping on bare ground would).
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    edited September 2013
    Hive-mind? Super-charged resting? So it's really just a Borg regeneration cycle! I'm starting to see those elves in a very different light...
  • Jodien37Jodien37 Member Posts: 17
    Elves have the "reverie", a kind of meditation where they sit down, close their eyes and enter into a half-sleep state. They share a special mental bond with each other (if they are both in reverie next to each other), they can even share patches of feelings during the reverie. An elf in reverie is no different than a human sleeping while sitting, they just don't snore and can awaken much more easily than the humans.

    As for infravision, there is really no need to complicate things. Infravision is hard to implement in computer games, since you as the player of the game, can see the enemies while your character can't. You have to add gameplay rules for both normal and night vision, maybe add some small disadvantage to dice rolls of humans when they operate in low light, treat them totally blind in pitch black darkness.
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    edited September 2013
    Jodien37 said:

    An elf in reverie is no different than a human sleeping while sitting, they just don't snore and can awaken much more easily than the humans.

    I'm willing to bet Jaheira snores.

  • taltamirtaltamir Member Posts: 288
    edited September 2013

    Elves don't sleep?

    Elves are far too perfect to sleep like us mortals.
    Jodien37 said:

    Elves have the "reverie", a kind of meditation where they sit down, close their eyes and enter into a half-sleep state. They share a special mental bond with each other (if they are both in reverie next to each other), they can even share patches of feelings during the reverie. An elf in reverie is no different than a human sleeping while sitting, they just don't snore and can awaken much more easily than the humans.

    I thought they were fully conscious during reverie, and can perform it with their eyes open. As such, an elf in reverie can "stand guard" while they get their 4 hours a night of rest. (or 8 hours if they are wizards because the gods thought it wouldn't be fair to human wizards otherwise)
  • taltamirtaltamir Member Posts: 288
    @Cold blooded: Indeed cold blooded creatures are not actually room temperature. I am surprised that in the cold blooded debate nobody mentioned the undead or golems who actually might be room temperature. Although this wouldn't stop infravision from seeing them, just make it a little harder to spot them IF they are intentionally being sneaky.
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201

    Elves are actually physically incapable of sleeping. It's why they're IMMUNE to sleep effects.

    I don't have my books handy atm, but it's something to do with what amounts to an elf hive-mind type thing related to the Elf-soul (it's also why they're nearly impervious to charm effects, there's a ton of interference). Instead of sleeping, they tap into the Revery which restores their stamina while they remain fully awake, and does twice as fast as sleeping does, and never suffers any ill effects due to resting in armor or low quality surroundings (such as a human sleeping on bare ground would).

    That just sounds wierd to me. I'm happy with elves sleeping, rather that than them being some weird tyranid hybrid.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    taltamir said:

    Elves don't sleep?

    Elves are far too perfect to sleep like us mortals.
    Jodien37 said:

    Elves have the "reverie", a kind of meditation where they sit down, close their eyes and enter into a half-sleep state. They share a special mental bond with each other (if they are both in reverie next to each other), they can even share patches of feelings during the reverie. An elf in reverie is no different than a human sleeping while sitting, they just don't snore and can awaken much more easily than the humans.

    I thought they were fully conscious during reverie, and can perform it with their eyes open. As such, an elf in reverie can "stand guard" while they get their 4 hours a night of rest. (or 8 hours if they are wizards because the gods thought it wouldn't be fair to human wizards otherwise)
    They are, but any physical action will be considered a break in reverie and they are not rested unless they can complete it. It takes 4 hours, if my memory serves.
  • taltamirtaltamir Member Posts: 288
    mlnevese said:

    They are, but any physical action will be considered a break in reverie and they are not rested unless they can complete it. It takes 4 hours, if my memory serves.

    They would only have to take a physical action if spotting an enemy. That action would be to scream an alarm so everyone wakes up.
  • rexregrexreg Member Posts: 292
    cold-blooded and warm-blooded should be replaced w/ endothermic & ectothermic (respectively)...

    undead & constructs are still invisible to infravision, if i remember correctly
  • taltamirtaltamir Member Posts: 288
    rexreg said:

    undead & constructs are still invisible to infravision, if i remember correctly

    That is quite impossible unless there is a magic effect that grants them invisiblity.

    The three possibilities are:
    1. They are room temperature, in which case they are not invisible but merely harder to distinguish from the surrounding (but still possible, because not everything is the exact same temp and they move)
    2. They show up as a black "hole" that is shaped like a skeleton or a golem on the background of color (since everything else has color)
    3. They are magically transparent to infrared light causing it to pass right through them. Something it most certainly does not to do skeletons or rocks without magic.

    I sincerely doubt it is #3.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    1e was even stranger. Elves didn't have souls, they had "spirits" and thus were immune to the "Raise Dead" spell. They had to be resurrected instead. There was also something called "Ultravision" that allowed vision in the Ultraviolet Spectrum, and allowed increased vision at night (100' rather than 60' during the day). It was probably similar in effect to nightvision goggles. It was possessed by subterranean races, where as all PC races (Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Halflings and Half-Orcs) possessed infravision.

    There was also the "On Death's Door" optional rule. Your character passed out at 0 hit points, but would bleed out from their wounds (unless they were bandaged), losing 1 hit point per round until -10 hit points were reached, at which point you were dead irrevocably and would need a raise dead/resurrection spell to be alive once again.
  • taltamirtaltamir Member Posts: 288
    I found a pretty huge lore discrepancy.
    Irenicus is last seen being tortured by demons in hell, and some characters say things (IIRC imoen) like "I hope you burn in hell" or some such.
    Even though the D&D cosmology doesn't work that way.
    LadyRhian said:

    There was also the "On Death's Door" optional rule. Your character passed out at 0 hit points, but would bleed out from their wounds (unless they were bandaged), losing 1 hit point per round until -10 hit points were reached, at which point you were dead irrevocably and would need a raise dead/resurrection spell to be alive once again.

    That is also how it is in 3e
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