Daggers and Shortswords are awful
Cowled_wizard
Member Posts: 119
Not sure if this has been said in the past, i know its a cry in the dark but i would really like to find some use for them.
- Their damage sucks,
- Weapon options suck (kundahar being the only one commonly used... maybe mask one also)
Some suggestions:
- Increase backstab multiplier (for example) : +1 if shortsword, +2 if dagger , (short sword of backstabbing would get +2)
- Some really cool specials (extra attacks per round, huge poison damage over time, big aditional damage, etc)
As of now, unless you want a challenge, nobody uses them, Any ideas?
- Their damage sucks,
- Weapon options suck (kundahar being the only one commonly used... maybe mask one also)
Some suggestions:
- Increase backstab multiplier (for example) : +1 if shortsword, +2 if dagger , (short sword of backstabbing would get +2)
- Some really cool specials (extra attacks per round, huge poison damage over time, big aditional damage, etc)
As of now, unless you want a challenge, nobody uses them, Any ideas?
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Comments
But I think Fighter/Thief could probably make sense with Grandmastery in Short Swords and/or Daggers.
Throwing daggers now get bonus strength damage though, so can be pretty deadly in the hands of a strong character, especially if you combine it with something like the firetooth dagger which does 2d4+3 damage and extra fire damage anyway.
It's not always about min/max, either.
I dont feel this is about min max, but about making them a valid choice for many characters.. it is very rare to see any player using daggers for any character if they can use a 1d8 weapon.
Throwing daggers is still one attack per round? 2d4+3+str comparable to tuigan (3apr) ?
I agree that in bg1 thaco is quite important and a +3 over a +2 might be worthwhile, but in bg2 that isnt the case.
1 - Shortsword have a very low weapon speed factor, ensuring your backstabbing business goes smoothly.
2 - Dagger of venom. 'nuff said
3 - The +3 shortsword is the best 1 handed weapon in the game for a thief.
Shortsword of backstabbing is pretty good too.
Flails should be a fairly average blunt weapon considered in isolation, but they're great because of the Flail of Ages and Defender of Easthaven. Few people use clubs in BG2 because there are few good clubs rather than because the weapon is poor mechanically.
Hopefully BG2:EE will add a couple of weapons to under-represented categories just as BGEE did. Daggers and shortswords would be candidates, as would clubs and katanas.
I don't think they'll change any game mechanics, though. So, there's rarely a reason to choose dagger or shortsword over bigger weapons, other than roleplaying flavor (except maybe for that Dagger of Venom in BG1.)
dagger of venom, stiletto demarchess, pixie prick, dagger of the star
but i agree, shortswords aren't great
Currently im a solo run with a halfing fight-thief multi (cheated to shadowkeeper to fighter assasin) that can only use daggers and short swords (specifically short sword main hand and dagger of hand: go regis!)
Also , can only use armor he can use to sneak with... no full plate ever.
those daggers you said mjs are %chance weapons , so im not so sure how good they are)
A question: Early bg2: short sword+4mask or kundahar as main hand (off hand Must be a dagger)
In P&P roleplaying a dagger has the advantage of being readily concealable so you can take it into social situations where a large sword just wouldn't be appropriate. If a fight breaks out then certainly a long sword is better than a dagger. But a dagger is a hell of a lot better than nothing.
BG doesn't have any of these subtleties. You can carry a whole arsenal of weapons wherever you want. You can wear your armor 24/7 with no difficulties. So all the advantages of having a small weapon are lost.
But personally it's best to accept this as a limitation of computer RPGs, rather than try to artificially increase dagger/short sword damage to make them equivalent in a fight to bigger weapons.
Plus, as Corvino pointed out, weapons are good/bad primarily due to which particular weapons are available in BG. But I'm okay with this - I prefer to have this kind of diversity than a world where everything has to be exactly equal.
"When using a second weapon in his off-hand, a character is limited in his weapon choice. His principal weapon can be whatever he chooses, provided it can be wielded with one hand. The second weapon must be smaller in size and weight than the character's main weapon (though a dagger can always be used as a second weapon, even if the primary weapon is also a dagger). A fighter can use a long sword and a short sword, or a long sword and a dagger, but he cannot use two long swords."
For a backstabber, I would certainly take a short sword over a long sword. The expected damage is only one less, and the speed factor is 2 better. If you're trying to backstab the enemy mage, you want to get the hit in before the spell goes off!
As far as BG2 goes, you have easy access to +3 daggers and short swords, and you can get the Short Sword of the Mask any time you have the gold and the urge to wander over to Watcher's Keep.
(I will give a shout out to Arbane, immunity to hold person and on-use Haste is pretty nice)