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Tweaking the Thieves (Shadowdancer, Assassin, Bounty Hunter, and Thief)

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  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    It's granted only at level 1, so if you're loading an existing save it won't show up. You can EEKeep the character to grant the +10 Hide/Move Silently, though; that's probably the best route to take, without editing the CLAB table.
  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    @Qbert You need to add the bonuses under the "Affects" tab.

    1. Create a new Shadowdancer and save the game.
    2. Open two saved games in EE Keeper: the old Shadowdancer and the new Shadowdancer.
    3. Copy and paste "0x0113" and "Skill Stealth" from the new Shadowdancer's Affects tab to the old Shadowdancer's Affects tab.
    QbertJuliusBorisovWilbur
  • QbertQbert Member Posts: 195
    edited October 2013
    @basillicum - thanks i will try tonight.

    Edit: tried and worked like a charm. you sir are awesome.
    Post edited by Qbert on
    BasillicumWilbur
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    Tested. SD gets 5x backstab modifier at level 13.

    And SD can hide in plain sight (HIPS) without restriction as long as previous hide attempt has been successful. Button only grays out if previous hide attempt has failed!

    At level 13, SD rarely fails HIPS provided all the skill points are spent on hiding abilities.
    And hiding not only cancels out enemy spellcasting (except area effect spells of course) but also melee attacks.

    Anyway, except for a few levels, it may be entirely possible to solo BP using SD. So far necromancer, rabid ahnkegs, and the battle with mysterious portals were giving me the trouble but other battles I could hide/backstab/hide again and again. Definitely OP if you ask me.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @leeho730
    Are you using this with the beta, or the non-beta (live) version? The changes to the backstab progression will only work with the beta.
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    @Dee

    non-beta.... Can you please tell me where to get the beta?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Follow the instructions in this post, and we'll get you set up.
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    @Dee

    Done. Thank you!

    By the way, now I want to dual SD to Fighter at level 13 in TOB... That way I get SD13/FIGHTER37. losing 3 HLA and one proficiency point to get very nice OP tertiary abilities... And Grand Mastery with +5 damage and backstab should mesh well...

    Or SD17/FIGHTER33. Still OP but penalty is a bit severer...
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Here's a revised Backstab.2da with just the change to the Shadowdancer's backstab progression (1, 5, 9, 13); the assassin and other changes aren't in here. Just extract to your override and try it out.

    Note: This will only work with v1.0.2028 or later. If you don't have access to the beta, follow the instructions here.
    JuliusBorisov
  • qwert_44643qwert_44643 Member Posts: 311
    do i clean out the override before installing this ...i think theres like 5-6 files in it from the first revision.
  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    @Dee My game crashes on startup if I use the last Backstab.2da you posted. Also happens if I clean out my override folder before extracting it.
  • qwert_44643qwert_44643 Member Posts: 311
    edited October 2013
    my game crashes to....i just replaced the backstab with the new one and left the other stuff in there...i reverted back and i have version v.1.0.2028
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Try this one instead.
    Basillicum
  • qwert_44643qwert_44643 Member Posts: 311
    seemed to work for me...
    Basillicum
  • ItomonItomon Member Posts: 187
    edited October 2013
    Maybe we could use the new SD backstab progression of 1,5,9,13 for Stalker with similar description "thief backstab at -1". ^^

    EDIT: now that i think of it, that sounds cheesy. Maybe removing charm abilities would compensate... alas, ranger XP progression is slower than thief's. I could live with it xD
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    With 8 million xp cap in TOB...

    SD13/FIGHTER37
    SD17/FIGHTER33
    STALKER 34

    SD/FIGHTER: HIPS, x4 backstab, can wear elven chain, grand mastery.
    Stalker: spells, x3 backstab, tracking, charm animals, two free proficiency points, much better HP.

    considering HIPS is a free action provided previous hide attempt has been successful, it's essentially same as Assassination HLA. Backstab, pause, immediately hide, unpause, backstab, repeat...
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @leeho730
    As of this coming patch, the Hide in Shadows ability has a one-round cool down timer. So at most you'll get one backstab per round.

    Still potent, just not as game-breaking as it was before.
    Itomon
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    The lastest file works. But a bit wonky. My level 23 Bounty Hunter backstab with x5 modifier for 4 damage...

  • HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
    leeho730 said:

    The lastest file works. But a bit wonky. My level 23 Bounty Hunter backstab with x5 modifier for 4 damage...

    Was caused by file changing?
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Do the progression charts in OP still hold true for v1.2? I can't decide whether I want to play a shadowdancer or an assassin next.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    1.2 uses the unmodded version: x1 until level 9, at which point it increases to x2, then at level 17 it jumps to x3, then x4 at level 25.
    Wilbur
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Dee said:

    1.2 uses the unmodded version: x1 until level 9, at which point it increases to x2, then at level 17 it jumps to x3, then x4 at level 25.

    Ok, thanks. x5 for Shadowdancer sounded a bit much especially at level 17.
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    Helmino said:

    leeho730 said:

    The lastest file works. But a bit wonky. My level 23 Bounty Hunter backstab with x5 modifier for 4 damage...

    Was caused by file changing?
    Yes I have installed Dee's latest backstab v2 mod and modded max exp. Theoretically with backstab x5 modifier one should backstab for minimum 5 damage...
  • HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
    leeho730 said:

    Helmino said:

    leeho730 said:

    The lastest file works. But a bit wonky. My level 23 Bounty Hunter backstab with x5 modifier for 4 damage...

    Was caused by file changing?
    Yes I have installed Dee's latest backstab v2 mod and modded max exp. Theoretically with backstab x5 modifier one should backstab for minimum 5 damage...
    Can you do some other try to check?
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    edited October 2013
    Helmino said:

    leeho730 said:

    Helmino said:

    leeho730 said:

    The lastest file works. But a bit wonky. My level 23 Bounty Hunter backstab with x5 modifier for 4 damage...

    Was caused by file changing?
    Yes I have installed Dee's latest backstab v2 mod and modded max exp. Theoretically with backstab x5 modifier one should backstab for minimum 5 damage...
    Can you do some other try to check?
    Made a party of stalker, thief, SD,BH, assassin for BP and spent about an hour backstabbing each other...

    Those with similar backstab multipliers tend to do very similar damages and identical damages on critical hits. But backstab damages are a bit off. For example with assassin max backstab damage I've seen was 42 at level 23, but shouldn't that supposed to be 49 (7x7 using 1D6 club with no strength modifier and innate +1 damage bonus)? And also for critical hits one would expect backstab damages to go up quite a bit but that's not the case here either. I'm not sure whether final backstab damage calculated would simply be the weapon damage rolls multiplied or weapon damage rolls rolled several times... But even then that doesn't explain how one can get 4 damage on x5 backstab...
    Post edited by leeho730 on
  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 722
    Check your difficulty slider.
    You may be only doing 75% of your damage when hitting your own characters.
    leeho730
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    @Aranthys

    You're right! Now my characters do proper damages! I feel so stupid now...
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    ...I don't know man. Looking at the original changes, I'd say the Assassin is a bit gimped now. I actually used the poison much more than the backstab. And the 15% to thieving skills hurt him much more then.
    JuliusBorisov
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    15 skill points is low for anybody, if you ask me.

    It makes sense in BGII, where you've already got seven levels of points accumulated; at level 1, though, it means you spend the first few levels struggling to do anything effectively, much less the thing your class is supposed to be good at. (and the assassin needs two of those skills to be successful, too.)

    As a mod, I'd be open to upping the Assassin's skill points to 20, with the provision of bumping the multiplier by +1 and giving the poison ability a proper scaling.
    MortiannaEudaemonium
  • maoampapermaoampaper Member Posts: 4
    I am currently trying out the Shadowdancer.
    With the intention of dual class-ing to fighter at lvl 17. (use any item)
    Just hit level 5 and got shadowstep.
    Really love the idea of being able to time stop at level 5!!
    But to my regret I had to realise it wouldnt work in-combat :(
    Is this intended or is it a bug?

    I really see enormous potential in using it in-combat.
    And it would also apply to the character kit description:
    A thief/fighter that is able to hide in plane sight... and re-appear behind the enemy wielding carsomyr!
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