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What parts of Baldur's Gate 1 are non-canon?

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  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    @TethorilofLathander -

    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.

    Might be because of edition change. 3rd Ed cut populace numbers a take deal basically all over the place, wouldn't surprise me if organisations got their numbers cut at the same time.
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477


    Dang. That's kind of amazing, how much work you've put into it. My novelization attempt's been collecting dust inside my computer for the past several months... Doesn't help that it's pretty slow, and I've got my own worlds to create! D:

    Just keep going, and take whatever time you need!

    Thanks! I'm not trying to brag, but I believe that my love and respect for the games shines through in my novelizations, and some, if not most people can sense that simply by noticing how much work I've put into it. I hope I've encouraged you to work on your own novelization, I'd love to read it sometime.

    Years ago, the only BG game I've played was Dark Alliance on the PS2, and I wasn't even a fan of Dungeons & Dragons back then, but thanks to BGEE, I've gotten completely into anything D&D related. Heck, I even joined a group that played "Murder in Baldur's Gate"!
  • CatoblepasCatoblepas Member Posts: 96
    edited November 2013

    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?

    if not they frickin' should!!!
    Well, in the recent adventure they released, "Murder in Baldur's Gate", they reference Abdel again-so it looks like they decided to reinforce the 'canon' status of the books after such a blissfully long period of ignoring them.

    Then he gets killed off by Viekang of all people, a reoccurring joke character from Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal.

    It seems to me that the adventure is obviously intended to cater to our fond nostalgic memories by referencing the Bladur's gate series so heavily (making it about the Bhaalspawn, putting Abdel the Slayer, and Viekang in there, having a statue of Minsc in the city, setting the adventure itself in Baldur's Gate etc) But I'm not quite sure how they figured making the canon protagonist be the much despised Abdel, or killing off the player's character (in as irritating a form as he is) is supposed to be something fans of the game would like to see...

    Alas, since the adventure ends with the resurrection of one of the Dead Three, you can bet your boots that the novelizations, at least in part, have been reaffirmed as being about as hard canon as can be. Abdel is going to be pretty well established as the canon protagonist from now on in future material, I'd wager.

    Since I ignore everything WoTC has done to Forgotten Realms since 4th edition (and some stuff before) this really doesn't affect me that much, but it does irritate me.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?

    if not they frickin' should!!!
    Well, in the recent adventure they released, "Murder in Baldur's Gate", they reference Abdel again-so it looks like they decided to reinforce the 'canon' status of the books after such a blissfully long period of ignoring them.

    Then he gets killed off by Viekang of all people, a reoccurring joke character from Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal..
    NO
    AkihikoBladeDancerThe_New_Romance
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    @BladeDancer
    You are re-writing the book????????????????



    Now that is what I call Buttkicking for Goodness
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    I will def read when i get the chance. I haven't even played BGIIee yet. Med school takes up too much of my time for me to play this game, yet somehow the two founders of Bioware (Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk) managed to freakin INVENT this game while in medical school... and they specialized in emergency medicine!

    They are clearly superior human beings and/or CLUAconsoled infinite Tomes of Clear Thought
  • CatoblepasCatoblepas Member Posts: 96

    Personally I quite liked that Abdel got killed off by Viekang. I thought it highlighted how atrocious Abdel was that he was killed by a joke character.

    Only thing better would have been Biff the Understudy standing in for Viekang.

    I'll admit, part of me cheers silently that he finally got what was coming to him, but on the other hand, I wonder if killing off the representation of the players in such a laughable way really appropriate for a adventure that seems designed to be a something of a love letter to fans of the games. It's kinda an underwhelming end to such a great saga, y'know?

    Plus, by tying Abdel to such a huge development in the realms (the return of Bhaal) makes it all the more difficult to ignore the awful books. At least before they could safely be ignored because they were never referenced in any other material. Last thing I want to see is Abdel's name if I decide to pick up a copy of the inevitable 5th edition Forgotten Realms campaign guide or by playing a hypothetical Baldur's gate III.
    booinyoureyesjackjack
  • MoczoMoczo Member Posts: 236



    Plus, by tying Abdel to such a huge development in the realms (the return of Bhaal) makes it all the more difficult to ignore the awful books. At least before they could safely be ignored because they were never referenced in any other material. Last thing I want to see is Abdel's name if I decide to pick up a copy of the inevitable 5th edition Forgotten Realms campaign guide or by playing a hypothetical Baldur's gate III.

    Just close your eyes, focus your mind, and pretend they mean Abdel Jefferson, Faerunian CPA in charge of the real Bhaalspawn's finances.
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    Personally, I was never a big fan of the forgotten realms (too generic for my tastes), but I loved the Baldur's Gate series. The book is utter garbage, and if I ever had an inclination to look into the setting, Wizards killed it with the changes they made in 4e.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072

    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?

    if not they frickin' should!!!
    Well, in the recent adventure they released, "Murder in Baldur's Gate", they reference Abdel again-so it looks like they decided to reinforce the 'canon' status of the books after such a blissfully long period of ignoring them.

    Then he gets killed off by Viekang of all people, a reoccurring joke character from Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal.

    It seems to me that the adventure is obviously intended to cater to our fond nostalgic memories by referencing the Bladur's gate series so heavily (making it about the Bhaalspawn, putting Abdel the Slayer, and Viekang in there, having a statue of Minsc in the city, setting the adventure itself in Baldur's Gate etc) But I'm not quite sure how they figured making the canon protagonist be the much despised Abdel, or killing off the player's character (in as irritating a form as he is) is supposed to be something fans of the game would like to see...

    Alas, since the adventure ends with the resurrection of one of the Dead Three, you can bet your boots that the novelizations, at least in part, have been reaffirmed as being about as hard canon as can be. Abdel is going to be pretty well established as the canon protagonist from now on in future material, I'd wager.

    Since I ignore everything WoTC has done to Forgotten Realms since 4th edition (and some stuff before) this really doesn't affect me that much, but it does irritate me.
    It doesn't really reaffirm much beyond the name, though, but yeah, the books were never de-canonised (as far as I know at least) to begin with, just shoved in under the bed.

    Now to the important part: there was a statue of Minsc in the city?
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    edited November 2013
    Expanding a little on Elminster and the spell plague from earlier.

    First of all "The Sundering" has started blissfully ushering in 5th edition where Greenwood and Salvatore get a lot more say in their characters setting etc.

    Also SPOILERS


    By the end of the last Elminster book he regains his body, Simbul ascends to the post of Mystra, Elminster is no longer insane and he opens some major whoopass on some people by the end of it all.
    Post edited by Dragonspear on
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    edited November 2013
    double posted stupid phone
    Post edited by Dragonspear on
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    @BladeDancer
    You are re-writing the book????????????????



    Now that is what I call Buttkicking for Goodness

    Not really, retconning is the correct word. I'm writing my own novelization that closely follows the game more than the novelizations of BG and BG2 SoA do. The only differences is my charname, who was a LG (in my BGEE novel) and now a CG (in my BG2EE novel which is currently unfinished) male human fighter is the main character, Imoen and Minsc are in my novel unlike the official BG novel, the Enhanced Edition characters, Neera, Dorn and Rasaad are in it, and in my novelization of BG2EE, Hexxat is in it and even Abdel, even though he is not a companion NPC of the games, I felt he should be in my novelization since my goal is to unofficially tie my novelization into the canon Forgotten Realms lore and Murder in Baldur's Gate as if it were canon instead of the lackluster official novels.
    Post edited by BladeDancer on
    booinyoureyes
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477



    It seems to me that the adventure is obviously intended to cater to our fond nostalgic memories by referencing the Bladur's gate series so heavily (making it about the Bhaalspawn, putting Abdel the Slayer, and Viekang in there, having a statue of Minsc in the city, setting the adventure itself in Baldur's Gate etc)

    You forgot to mention that Coran is in Murder in Baldur's Gate. My group and I met him while playing it.
    booinyoureyesFlashburn
  • FouneFoune Member Posts: 53
    This book and so called ''canon'' sounds like crap, I will never accept it as such, the canon for me is the major events the bhaalspawn went through, the rest is unknown, only the player while playing the game knows the canon.
    Markybooinyoureyes
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747

    Screw this, the damn BOOK isn't canon. My playthroughs are cannon. Your playthroughs are canon.
    Canon in the eye of the beholder... minus the whole turn into a statue thing

    Almost got it right there. "The ONE TRUE CANON CHARNAME is a Beholder" is canon.

    EudaemoniumTethorilofLathanderbooinyoureyes
  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    The Baldur's Gate book is actually good and cool
  • Almateria said:

    The Baldur's Gate book is actually good and cool

    Equip your shield and sword for the backlash XD

    jackjackKidCarnivalBladeDancer
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    But don't bother with points in sword & shield proficiency.
    EudaemoniumKidCarnival
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Almateria said:

    The Baldur's Gate book is actually good and cool

    >:}
    http://www.minscandboo.com/quotes2/This_behaviour_must_not_continue.WAV
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    Screw this, the damn BOOK isn't canon. My playthroughs are cannon. Your playthroughs are canon.
    Canon in the eye of the beholder... minus the whole turn into a statue thing

    Almost got it right there. "The ONE TRUE CANON CHARNAME is a Beholder" is canon.

    GO FOR THE EYE BOO GO FOR THE EYE
  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    Seriously though, I think they're hilarious and great read just to see how incredible they can get. There's not a thing I didn't like about them, whether it's Sarevok spending the entire book in his bed, Gorion getting shanked in the eye, copious amount of people shitting their pants, Abdel running through Athkatla naked with red-haired Minsc at his side, ghost Jaheira sex, vampire sex, drow sex, lesbian sex, the inclusion of goddamn piercers or Abdel and Irenicus farting a cloud of essence at each other, it's all fantastic.

    Also the ToB book was better than the game.

    Almateria said:

    The Baldur's Gate book is actually good and cool

    >:}
    http://www.minscandboo.com/quotes2/This_behaviour_must_not_continue.WAV
    It's funny how in English Minsc doesn't sound like a drooling retard.
    booinyoureyes
  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    My favorite scene was when at the end of SoA book when Imoen turned into the ravager she killed an elf mage with a floating bone dagger and he felt more feelings about it than in the whole book combined
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited November 2013
    Almateria said:

    Seriously though, I think they're hilarious and great read just to see how incredible they can get. There's not a thing I didn't like about them, whether it's Sarevok spending the entire book in his bed, Gorion getting shanked in the eye, copious amount of people shitting their pants, Abdel running through Athkatla naked with red-haired Minsc at his side, ghost Jaheira sex, vampire sex, drow sex, lesbian sex, the inclusion of goddamn piercers or Abdel and Irenicus farting a cloud of essence at each other, it's all fantastic.

    Also the ToB book was better than the game.

    Almateria said:

    The Baldur's Gate book is actually good and cool

    >:}
    http://www.minscandboo.com/quotes2/This_behaviour_must_not_continue.WAV
    It's funny how in English Minsc doesn't sound like a drooling retard.


    Out of interest, what language did you play in?

    Also the TOB book was NOT better than the game! though it was the best book. I think it also has a different author, but I'm afraid to look.
  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    Polish. They changed the entire characterization in SoA. Also they made Imoen not Russian anymore which sucked.

    Actually yeah it was? And if not then at least it was a faithful adaptation, which by ToB standards mean "Abdel gets hypercharged and murders everyone forever". Also there was some actual characterization to characters like Melissan or Balthazar which was better than what we got in the game
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Almateria said:

    Polish. They changed the entire characterization in SoA. Also they made Imoen not Russian anymore which sucked.

    Actually yeah it was? And if not then at least it was a faithful adaptation, which by ToB standards mean "Abdel gets hypercharged and murders everyone forever". Also there was some actual characterization to characters like Melissan or Balthazar which was better than what we got in the game

    Ahhhh. You must play it with the Ascension mod
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199

    Almateria said:

    Polish. They changed the entire characterization in SoA. Also they made Imoen not Russian anymore which sucked.

    Actually yeah it was? And if not then at least it was a faithful adaptation, which by ToB standards mean "Abdel gets hypercharged and murders everyone forever". Also there was some actual characterization to characters like Melissan or Balthazar which was better than what we got in the game

    Ahhhh. You must play it with the Ascension mod
    The fact that Ascension makes ToB bearable to play doesn't mean that the original is not a clusterf**k of poor pacing and dire characterisation. Despite how awful the books are considered I actually have little doubt the ToB book might well be better than the game.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747

    Screw this, the damn BOOK isn't canon. My playthroughs are cannon. Your playthroughs are canon.
    Canon in the eye of the beholder... minus the whole turn into a statue thing

    Almost got it right there. "The ONE TRUE CANON CHARNAME is a Beholder" is canon.

    GO FOR THE EYE BOO GO FOR THE EYE
    NO.

    booinyoureyesEudaemonium
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