Don't tank with Dorn then. It's simple as that. Really.
I do 100% agree with you on this matter, but even with his "glass cannon" purpose realized, it is quite clear he is not an all-in-one, versatile package ... and thus not as "omgwtfbbq powerful" as many say. Is he still bloody useful? Absolutely, like you say, throw him in the front line behind somebody with a better AC and HP, and he dominates. I'm just pointing out that he ain't everything.
Baeloth - 19 Intelligence on a Sorceror. How incredibly useless! Yes he has a lot of spell slots and magic resistance but his stats are totally godawful
Err what? I mean his dexterity doesn't give him any bonuses but access to Shield and Mirror Images handles that. Beyond that his stats are basically perfect for a sorcerer.
Mirror Image is an unreliable piece of crap. I realize I am basically alone in this opinion.
His Dexterity is garbage, his Strength is meh but that doesn't particularly matter ... Really it bothers my OCD that the highest Intelligence in the game would be given to a character who doesn't even utilize it, I'll be honest.
@KidCarnival I disagree with you on the Shar-Teel bit. I feel like she got replaced pretty hard, not even based on their stats, but based on what the FUCK IS WITH HER PROFICIENCIES?!
@Quartz: Well, yeah, Shar-Teel's profs are different now, but it doesn't bother me at all. She has Long Sword and Dagger now... absolutely no complaints, since I hate getting good stuff like Varscona and Dagger of Venom/Heart of Golem and not having someone who can put it to good use. Dorn as the evil counterpart to Keldorn (in the long run) needs the 2HS prof more, based on his class and what my mental image says a Blackguard should be like. Shar-Teel has more freedom there; as a fierce amazon, many weapons make sense and fit the "perfect picture" of that character type. I can see her with dual axes, all sorts of swords, but also light weapons like daggers and spears and wouldn't think "wait, isn't an amazon supposed to use X instead?" Plus, it's obviously quite convenient that she is proficient with 2 backstab weapons; no switching out gear except armor if you dual her.
Even though she might have good stats and be ideal for what you want in a thief because you get her at start, I find her too kiddsy with her dialog. Plus if you play evil she might get annoying and eventually leave.
Beyond that Id say Edwin (although I love having him in a group because of how he reacts) due to his ring and stats that steal the mage spot in groups...unless you try to spice things up with another one.
I have not tried the new characters yet though...From what i hear they might be taking top place also.
I think there is something that appeals to some people (mostly adolescent males): an edgy, powerful (esp. born to power), bad-but-not-wholly-evil sort of character. Think Wolverine from the X-Men comic book. When drow were first introduced they captured the imagination of munchkins everywhere. Add sex appeal and you have what makes Viconia popular.
and purple vagina
Thanks, @Fredjo! I can now take that mental image to my grave.
I think there is something that appeals to some people (mostly adolescent males): an edgy, powerful (esp. born to power), bad-but-not-wholly-evil sort of character. Think Wolverine from the X-Men comic book. When drow were first introduced they captured the imagination of munchkins everywhere. Add sex appeal and you have what makes Viconia popular.
and purple vagina
Thanks, @Fredjo! I can now take that mental image to my grave.
Hahahahahaha!! Man I love the responses, would've never though a vagina's hue could cause such a stir!
Haer'Dalis is normally considered bad, isn't he? -_- His improved bard song is wonderful defence. Apart from that, he's simply an ok secondary fighter and mage.
Been a long time since I played a BG2 game with him in the party but I'm recalling that a Blade's Offensive Spin confers attacks-per-round that are on par with with warrior types.
As much as I love him as a character, from a gaming perspective Minsc is nothing special. In BG1, he makes a serviceable front-line damage dealer with decent defence and HP, especially when you slap the DEX gauntlets on him, but as the game goes on he becomes more and more overshadowed by fighters and paladins. His ranger abilities (charm animal etc) are next to useless as well.
Haer'Dalis is normally considered bad, isn't he? -_- His improved bard song is wonderful defence. Apart from that, he's simply an ok secondary fighter and mage.
Been a long time since I played a BG2 game with him in the party but I'm recalling that a Blade's Offensive Spin confers attacks-per-round that are on par with with warrior types.
That's what I've heard. I find managing his Blade abilities, bard song and spells to be more of a nuisance than I want to bother with.
If used to the fullest extent of his various abilities he can be very powerful, but in practice I find I use him in three ways: as a mage and a melee combatant, then solely as a melee combatant after he's run out of useful spells, and finally as a support with his bard song when he's low on hp.
He's still pretty handy that way, because he has a certain degree of utility after his two primary resources have been depleted, but he's not as powerful a character as other NPCs whose combat resources are easier to manage. Compare to characters like Korgan or Minsc who are more or less a pile of hit points and an axe that you can point at the enemy and set loose with very little prep work and in-combat management.
Ok people could we NOT discuss some body parts? This is still a PG 13 forum...
Dude, have you seen Xzar's hands? Pretty cool hands, he's got there. He seems to have olive skin, y'know? If you look at his portrait though, his arms are kind of hairy. Interesting, because we never really think of mages as being hairy because we assume hairy is manly and strong, and mages are not typically manly and strong. But it makes sense with Xzar, because his Strength is 14. Strongest damn mage there ever was.
I also agree with @BlueSorceress. Haer'Dalis demands the attention and micro management usually reserved for charname. With NPCs, I prefer them to have their thing and me letting them do their thing, not re-evaluate how exactly they'd be useful in any given fight.
hmmm... I feel like Imoen gets a lot of flak. I think the fact that she is all the thief I need in BG2 and ToB (I, and many others, think thieves are kinda underpowered in this game) while still being a hell of a mage makes her really useful and frees up spots in the party for an additional caster or warrior. I find that extremely beneficial for my style of play.
I voted Haer' Dalis, not because I think he isn't powerful. Quite frankly, I've never gotten past his annoying (to me) personality, so I don't really know. And therein lies my 'Reason'. he is (to me) not as great as people say 'because' he is the most annoying NPC in BG2 and that far outweighs any abilities he may have. For me the top 5 on the annoying list in order are:
Haer' Dalis Nalia Aerie Anomen Cernd
Not that any of them are not good in any way, merely that I can't play with them long enough to appreciate their talents/abilities/contributions. It's a personal weakness on my part.
Keldorn - I like Keldorn for his personality and quest. I'm no fan of paladins in general. Keldorn manages to be one and get around all the things I usually find annoying about them. Ajantis, for example, just makes no sense to me with his over the top "GHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA PURGE ALL EVIL!" I don't see why he would completely freak out and attack Kagain. Imagine walking through Beregost and a group of commoners watches you walk by. One of them says "hey, if you're really worried about your sister, why not hire someone to see if she made it safely to Nashkel? There's that guy Kagain; reliable mercenary. He found my brother after he stumbled into the wilderness after a wild night of drinking in Feldepost Inn. Oh, look, over there, that's Kagain! Yes, the dwarf who just gets his skull bashed in by the crazed paladin! Your sister? Oh. Umm. Well, we could go look after her ourselves later?" But back to Keldorn. Keldorn doesn't do that, he's a well written character. Since I usually play evil, I rarely have him for very long. Just do his quest and let him leave with his family. I doubt his kit and abilities are too essential - I don't miss any of that after he left and do just fine without a paladin. Certainly overrated, but more the class/kit than Keldorn himself.
Jan - he has a ridicolously useful multiclass, neat personal items, tons of banters and a quest that rivals Keldorn's writing and character depth. Though I rarely take Jan - being a dedicated evil player, I'm fairly used to play a thief and take Edwin as mage - I would call him "the perfect NPC". He has all that is desirable in a NPC - no alignment conflicts, good writing, layered personality, interesting quest, useful class, unique items that remain relevant for a long time, balanced stats and slower level progression as multiclass. Jan isn't overrated, he's just right. In a perfect world, every NPC would be a bit more like Jan.
I couldn't agree more with these two descriptions. I too love personal items. Keldorn's sword is surprisingly useful (iirc, I killed that dude who was guarding Hexxat's tomb by healing Keldorn repeatedly). I think they are also well written, and I really like how I can leave Keldorn after I complete his quest and feel really good about it. Jan's quest imho is one of the most underrated NPC quests. It totally made me think more of him as a character, since I previously viewed him as simple comic relief. His items also add a lot of flavor. I wish more characters got unique items.
I couldn't agree more with these two descriptions. I too love personal items. Keldorn's sword is surprisingly useful (iirc, I killed that dude who was guarding Hexxat's tomb by healing Keldorn repeatedly).
That's EXACTLY what i did during one of my playthroughs! Although, Keldorn kept getting hit so much that he had morale failure so I had to finish off the guy with Magic Missiles, but still Keldorn tanked for a long time with his sword.
Being annoying does outweight usefulness for me, too. I'd really like a wild mage sometimes, but I can't bring myself to keep Neera longer than it takes to do her quest. And even that is a test of patience, topped off by her bratty, entitled comment after killing Ekandor - who I like way more, and would have handed Neera over to if only I could.
Anomen and Cernd don't bother me much on the personality front. I find Anomen quite amusing and Cernd doesn't have a personality. He kills with boredom and the same old treehugger one liners over and over again. I don't know what to do with him regarding a party role, and I also don't know where he fits in roleplay-wise. I frankly also have no real clue what to do with Rasaad (or monks in general), so I just click ability buttons and see who drops dead. But he has a personality and an interesting quest, so I can fit him in a roleplay idea much easier. Valygar is often said to have no personality, but the little he has happens to fit perfectly with one of my favorite charnames. It doesn't take much to come up with a concept. Cernd doesn't even have that.
lol... I may be the only person who actually prefers annoying over boring. Nalia is annoying to me, but I play with her. Valygar doesn't bother me but I just can't get into him after having in my party for awhile, despite enjoying his kit a lot and finding his quest kinda fun. I found Jan annoying, but was still willing to try him out, and he grew on me a lot. Cernd isn't disturbing to my demeanor, but I just yawn every time he speaks. I love Jan now... Cernd will be in a future playthrough but I am less hopeful than I was with taking the gnome motormouth.
LOL. Valygar? Can you actually bring him along as anything other than a walking, or more often dead, key?
I really do want to try some of these guys out sometime though. I have tried several times with Anomen. But he gets me from the opening conversation about Being a riteous windbag of good or some such. I don't have a problem with LG (per say). i like Keldorn and i've played a Paladin. Just Anomen comes off as this pompous do-gooder, only he isn't, yet. At least that is the impression I get right off the bat. I could be wrong.
I've actually defeated SoA with Aerie, but I've really had to stick with her, mainly by sticking my fingers in my ears. I don't have a lot of tolerance for that anymore.
On the other hand, I might just have to do a playthrough with that group. Hmmm... Could be interesting.
Comments
His Dexterity is garbage, his Strength is meh but that doesn't particularly matter ... Really it bothers my OCD that the highest Intelligence in the game would be given to a character who doesn't even utilize it, I'll be honest.
@KidCarnival I disagree with you on the Shar-Teel bit. I feel like she got replaced pretty hard, not even based on their stats, but based on what the FUCK IS WITH HER PROFICIENCIES?!
Even though she might have good stats and be ideal for what you want in a thief because you get her at start, I find her too kiddsy with her dialog. Plus if you play evil she might get annoying and eventually leave.
Beyond that Id say Edwin (although I love having him in a group because of how he reacts) due to his ring and stats that steal the mage spot in groups...unless you try to spice things up with another one.
I have not tried the new characters yet though...From what i hear they might be taking top place also.
Thanks, @Fredjo! I can now take that mental image to my grave.
Hahahahahaha!! Man I love the responses, would've never though a vagina's hue could cause such a stir!
*echem* On topic, plz?
That's what I've heard. I find managing his Blade abilities, bard song and spells to be more of a nuisance than I want to bother with.
If used to the fullest extent of his various abilities he can be very powerful, but in practice I find I use him in three ways: as a mage and a melee combatant, then solely as a melee combatant after he's run out of useful spells, and finally as a support with his bard song when he's low on hp.
He's still pretty handy that way, because he has a certain degree of utility after his two primary resources have been depleted, but he's not as powerful a character as other NPCs whose combat resources are easier to manage. Compare to characters like Korgan or Minsc who are more or less a pile of hit points and an axe that you can point at the enemy and set loose with very little prep work and in-combat management.
(How's that for on topic? ^_^ )
-Blue
Am I doing this right?!
I also agree with @BlueSorceress. Haer'Dalis demands the attention and micro management usually reserved for charname. With NPCs, I prefer them to have their thing and me letting them do their thing, not re-evaluate how exactly they'd be useful in any given fight.
Nalia FTW!
Haer' Dalis
Nalia
Aerie
Anomen
Cernd
Not that any of them are not good in any way, merely that I can't play with them long enough to appreciate their talents/abilities/contributions. It's a personal weakness on my part.
Jan's quest imho is one of the most underrated NPC quests. It totally made me think more of him as a character, since I previously viewed him as simple comic relief. His items also add a lot of flavor. I wish more characters got unique items.
Anomen and Cernd don't bother me much on the personality front. I find Anomen quite amusing and Cernd doesn't have a personality. He kills with boredom and the same old treehugger one liners over and over again. I don't know what to do with him regarding a party role, and I also don't know where he fits in roleplay-wise. I frankly also have no real clue what to do with Rasaad (or monks in general), so I just click ability buttons and see who drops dead. But he has a personality and an interesting quest, so I can fit him in a roleplay idea much easier. Valygar is often said to have no personality, but the little he has happens to fit perfectly with one of my favorite charnames. It doesn't take much to come up with a concept. Cernd doesn't even have that.
Nalia is annoying to me, but I play with her. Valygar doesn't bother me but I just can't get into him after having in my party for awhile, despite enjoying his kit a lot and finding his quest kinda fun.
I found Jan annoying, but was still willing to try him out, and he grew on me a lot. Cernd isn't disturbing to my demeanor, but I just yawn every time he speaks. I love Jan now... Cernd will be in a future playthrough but I am less hopeful than I was with taking the gnome motormouth.
I really do want to try some of these guys out sometime though. I have tried several times with Anomen. But he gets me from the opening conversation about Being a riteous windbag of good or some such. I don't have a problem with LG (per say). i like Keldorn and i've played a Paladin. Just Anomen comes off as this pompous do-gooder, only he isn't, yet. At least that is the impression I get right off the bat. I could be wrong.
I've actually defeated SoA with Aerie, but I've really had to stick with her, mainly by sticking my fingers in my ears. I don't have a lot of tolerance for that anymore.
On the other hand, I might just have to do a playthrough with that group. Hmmm... Could be interesting.