Skip to content

Will this be the future of gaming? (article: EA on how to monetise gamers)

Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-13-bioware-on-how-to-monetise-players-day-one-dlc-online-passes-micro-transactions

I don't know whether it has been discussed yet on these forums and I apologize if so. Anyway, after having read this article, I died a bit inside. I think it's horrible how the current gaming industry is so blatantly taking advantage of the passion of their fans and exploit all ways possible to make them fork out more money. Don't get me wrong, I would be all too willing to pay for expansion packs after the full game has been released, but only as long as it contains new content which is independent and ADDITIONAL to the main story in the full game, or extra customization packs or something similiar. What EA has done with ME 3, however, is downright wrong in my eyes. Anyway, I wanted to know if there were others who share my opinion. Please keep the discussion civil, thank you. :)
ajwzCommunardraywindXylinaTwilight_FoxAnduine
«13456

Comments

  • ZafiroZafiro Member Posts: 436
    edited August 2012
    The thing is DLC's or any other so called content you have to pay for, seems to actually give you nada; those more options they offer, you should get from the very start. Doesn't matter much to me, the games are awful anyway. It's like they jumped into 3D to soon; those close shots of the NPCs are horrific; and so are 3D portraits, with the head bobbing and all, goofy as hell. There is no art direction and for some reason they never get the colours right. Eh, no worries, I've lost the taste for video games in the past five years or so. You have many 10 years or older games out there if you hanker for some role playing. Actually, I'm pretty sure Baldur's Gate heavily modded can be played for many years to come - Vivos voco!
    Communard
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    @Dannen6272

    i agree with what you said, and while i haven't played many indie games per say, i love games like pop cap that give you large addicting games for cheap. pvz i've put more hours into then i have the mass effect trilogy and i only paid 14.99 for it. Could the game have been better? Probably but what game couldn't. They also gave out dlc for free in the form of *Patches*. You know, that old word where game developers would fix problems or add small dlc sized content for free back in the day?

    2 things i wanted to say in response to your post though. As far as blizzard, i'm not going to be buying from them anymore, but i remember playing wow when they had an in game auction house for game money. Boy, they sure were quick to ban anyone that bought items from other players with real world money, but when they do it, it's okay???? nice hypocrisy there.

    The other was about expansion packs back in the day. They were usually 10 to 20 dollars, and usually added alot of stuff to the game, like in warcraft 2 expansion, it added a ton of maps, new units. Star craft: Brood wars was the same size as the orginal game for 20 dollars. Seems like every expansion back then added massive content for 10 to 20 usd. Now, you get a 5 dollar dlc that maybe adds to hours to the game, and that's mostly dialog. so for 1/4th the price, or even 1/2, you get about 1/100th the content. It's a scam.
    Dannen6272
  • Dannen6272Dannen6272 Member Posts: 28
    @Bjjorick Honestly, I think Blizzard's only objection to selling in game items for real money was that they weren't getting a cut, hypocrits just like you said.

    And I get where you're coming from about DLC, and in fact I agree with you that its a rip off in how its being done. Like I said, the idea doesn't bother me, the execution is a different matter. For the paltry amount of content usually given in a modern DLC, they're not worth the 5-10 dollars that companies charge. Ideally they would be cheaper and contain more, but the notion of DLC is sound, just gotta improve the delivery.

    Also, "patches" is some kind of crazy talk these days lol. Clearly, you can't release something without charging for every little piece of it. I do find it a little ironic that Blizzard has gone down the road they have, they used to be the masters of great expansions: Brood War, Lord of Destruction, Beyond the Dark Portal, Frozen Throne, etc. Bioware too did some great ones: Tales of the Sword Coast, Throne of Bhaal, The Icewind Dale Expansions, etc. Oh how the forces of corporate greed have destroyed some of my favorite devs.
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited August 2012
    Well EA, Activision or any other big publisher is nothing more then a moneymaking machine listed on the stock exchange. Times are long over where the fun in gaming was the priority part and we can be happy that a few small studios are trying to show them the middle finger. Even the WotC/ hasbro tried to turn D&D into a family event with a rating for 4 years old... F*** em all and these bullshark like private investment company influence that has nothing to do in game business. Add some villain like a private investment banker to BGEE and i will rip him apart a few times!
    Razor
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    Actually i've been thinking of trying to make an indie game that would be an rpg like ff7, but only in terms of combat style and as far as a world that is controlled by a single large company. The evil company would be AE and they would be a clothing line, with one of their biggest sellers being AE Shorts, slogan would be something like go get in the game/etc. it's still just a thought rumbling around in my mind and i know i don't have the ability to do anything with it, but the running joke would be how the shorts are released ever year with a few new colors but same patters and nothing ever changes.

    I've got lots of ideas on how to go about it lol, but i wonder if the humor would miss the mark? Anyways, just a fun little thought, but the thing aobut them is that when you buy the shorts, they it to you for full price, but then you have to buy the pockets, and then you have to buy the elastic or string to hold them up, plus the zipper, etc.

    Ehhh, maybe it would suck but i guess it would be more of an irony, but in the case where the owner of hustler made fun of the tv minister, it was ruled that it's legal to make fun of others for the sake of satire. So ea couldn't sue me at least :P


    ..... I hope .....
    NWN_babaYagaSallparadiseDannen6272
  • SallparadiseSallparadise Member Posts: 94
    Depends on the DLC and the nature of it. If it's worthwhile content thats released some time after the original release of the game (think Awakening for DA: Origins or Point Lookout for Fallout 3) then I see it as something thats worth it. A little bit of money to keep a game going is fine by me.

    But if it's something thats already coded into the game and being released day one as extra money (MA 3 Prothean Jarvik) or is just complete crap (Elder Scrolls: Horse Armor and everything that wasn't Shivering Isles) then you must react to it. And the most effective way in doing so is to organise and boycott it.

    The company will never care if you complain about it and still buy it. Money is money to them. The company will also not care if it's indivuals doing it. The most effective and really the only way to influence them is to organise under a collective voice somehow and boycot the purchase of either the DLC or the game as a whole. That's what we should be focusing on, organising.
    Dannen6272
  • SallparadiseSallparadise Member Posts: 94

    A. You probally wouldn't be sued for slander, like Larry Flynt was
    B. Satire and comedy do protect you pretty far. Under your example, people would know in a heartbeat that your story is so outrageous and obviously humor that it wouldn't be considerd. As you long as you don't blatantly say something like "AE employs slaves to make their clothes".

    Slander and defamation are some of the hardest cases to prove.

    Bjjorick said:

    Actually i've been thinking of trying to make an indie game that would be an rpg like ff7, but only in terms of combat style and as far as a world that is controlled by a single large company. The evil company would be AE and they would be a clothing line, with one of their biggest sellers being AE Shorts, slogan would be something like go get in the game/etc. it's still just a thought rumbling around in my mind and i know i don't have the ability to do anything with it, but the running joke would be how the shorts are released ever year with a few new colors but same patters and nothing ever changes.

    I've got lots of ideas on how to go about it lol, but i wonder if the humor would miss the mark? Anyways, just a fun little thought, but the thing aobut them is that when you buy the shorts, they it to you for full price, but then you have to buy the pockets, and then you have to buy the elastic or string to hold them up, plus the zipper, etc.

    Ehhh, maybe it would suck but i guess it would be more of an irony, but in the case where the owner of hustler made fun of the tv minister, it was ruled that it's legal to make fun of others for the sake of satire. So ea couldn't sue me at least :P


    ..... I hope .....

    Dannen6272
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    Bjjorick said:

    Actually i've been thinking of trying to make an indie game that would be an rpg like ff7, but only in terms of combat style and as far as a world that is controlled by a single large company. The evil company would be AE and they would be a clothing line, with one of their biggest sellers being AE Shorts, slogan would be something like go get in the game/etc. it's still just a thought rumbling around in my mind and i know i don't have the ability to do anything with it, but the running joke would be how the shorts are released ever year with a few new colors but same patters and nothing ever changes.

    I've got lots of ideas on how to go about it lol, but i wonder if the humor would miss the mark? Anyways, just a fun little thought, but the thing aobut them is that when you buy the shorts, they it to you for full price, but then you have to buy the pockets, and then you have to buy the elastic or string to hold them up, plus the zipper, etc.

    Ehhh, maybe it would suck but i guess it would be more of an irony, but in the case where the owner of hustler made fun of the tv minister, it was ruled that it's legal to make fun of others for the sake of satire. So ea couldn't sue me at least :P


    ..... I hope .....

    <3 FF7. By the way, how would you get something like that started? I have a few ideas too, but at the end of the day, I have no idea how to program games, so have no idea how to get anything off the ground. I also wouldn't mind making a cartoon, but it's the same problem. I think indie is the way to go.

    Bjjorick
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190

    Depends on the DLC and the nature of it. If it's worthwhile content thats released some time after the original release of the game (think Awakening for DA: Origins or Point Lookout for Fallout 3) then I see it as something thats worth it. A little bit of money to keep a game going is fine by me.

    But if it's something thats already coded into the game and being released day one as extra money (MA 3 Prothean Jarvik) or is just complete crap (Elder Scrolls: Horse Armor and everything that wasn't Shivering Isles) then you must react to it. And the most effective way in doing so is to organise and boycott it.

    The company will never care if you complain about it and still buy it. Money is money to them. The company will also not care if it's indivuals doing it. The most effective and really the only way to influence them is to organise under a collective voice somehow and boycot the purchase of either the DLC or the game as a whole. That's what we should be focusing on, organising.

    Day One DLC like ME3's From Ashes is usually handled by a separate team and completed after the "gone gold" date of the game. It's not a trick, or nickle-and-diming.
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208


    lol that's always the problem is getting it started, i'm a writer with moderate programing skills, but would deffinately need some higher programing skills or someone who can get me started on the programming. I suck at drawing but my wife is very good at it, not professional at it *yet*, but she's getting there, so if she could have the time, i could get get her to draw the stuff. But any type of successful cartoon/game is usually at least a partnership, if not a team, and i don't know if i have a high enough cha score to pull it off.

    modding i can do, it's kinda like when someone edits your story. But creating.....i'm not quite there yet.
  • BarbosaBarbosa Member Posts: 10
    Not everyone is dumb!
    Have I bought DA 2?
    Yes, a year later and for less than a fiver, just to make sure it was as bad as it was mentioned.
    Have I bought ME3?
    No, I will do the same within a year or two, when it's up for grabs.
    Is Bioware doing very well with this new approach?
    Rumours they going to be shut.
    Have they lost all credibility?
    leave the answer to these boards members.
    am I shedding a tear?
    oldsch00lGun19EpitomyofShynessJaysama
  • lmaoboatlmaoboat Member Posts: 72
    I never played an Ultima game, but Bioware working on it sends a shiver down even my spine.
  • SixSix Member Posts: 33
    Never payed for dlc and probably never will.
    Warned my friends about opening their wallets for scraps years ago but they couldn't help themselves cause they needed to collect it all and now they moan and complain when reality slap them in the face.

    Still I do believe that bioware is right and the larger mass happily spend their spare money on any bone that get thrown their way.
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    i bought some dlc for disgaea but lol, i already got over 1k hours for the 40 usd inventment, the few dollars per character that i bought i kinda felt like i owed the company at that point. but seriously, when i spent that much time with the game, and when they build something that lasts that long, i don't mind putting some extra money in it if i see something i like, but also with disgaea, i wanted to support the series. Then i found out later that the dlc was already on the disk and was going to be part of the game but they decided to sell it instead, and i got annoyed and said screw it.
    Dannen6272
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    Bjjorick said:


    lol that's always the problem is getting it started, i'm a writer with moderate programing skills, but would deffinately need some higher programing skills or someone who can get me started on the programming. I suck at drawing but my wife is very good at it, not professional at it *yet*, but she's getting there, so if she could have the time, i could get get her to draw the stuff. But any type of successful cartoon/game is usually at least a partnership, if not a team, and i don't know if i have a high enough cha score to pull it off.

    modding i can do, it's kinda like when someone edits your story. But creating.....i'm not quite there yet.
    I know what you mean, I love the Neverwinter Nights and Warcraft 3 toolsets, and some of the servers and maps are just fantastic. They also added massive survivability to both games. I tend to go back for player-designed servers in NWN, and to play orpg save/load maps in WC III, not the original content. Thanks for the perspective by the way, and good luck with your game.

    By the way, speaking of the original post, this reminds me of a panel discussion by a bunch of leading developers from different gaming companies that I recently watched, and they were saying a similar thing. One of the devs said something like, 'we know that gamers will pay out a lot of money to play games that they like,' and it just seemed so bizarre. From his perspective, more money means more opportunity to expand the business, work on existing games, and create more games, but I just feel like in the end, it leads to commercialization and not necessarily better games, not to mention the potentially bottomless pit this opens up for gamers to toss money into. The same guy was talking about designing games that cater to as large an audience as possible to basically maximize profits. I understand his reasoning on some level, but more money also means giving certain people very fat paycheques to do things others can do for a fraction of the cost. Also, when I look back on NWN or WC III, I had years of pleasant experiences with these games, and yet only paid $60 for each. By contrast, it has cost me $200 or more to have the same enjoyment from an mmo like WoW, and I'm not convinced it was worth the money. On the other hand, the extra money Blizzard generated may have made Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2 much easier to put into development, who knows, but if so, it would also mean strangely that by paying more money, I've only widened the bottomless pit of expenses.
  • Doom972Doom972 Member Posts: 150
    It's awful that now we get 80% of a game, and have the rest of it sold to us through DLC. Unfortunately, most gamers aren't very good consumers. In many cases of new games/DLC announced I see "Shut up and take my money" posts on forums. Since publishers/developers know that gamers are just waiting for opportunity to throw money at them, they take advantage of that.
    Think about it if you plan to buy DLC, or pre-order a game.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Doom972 said:

    It's awful that now we get 80% of a game, and have the rest of it sold to us through DLC. Unfortunately, most gamers aren't very good consumers. In many cases of new games/DLC announced I see "Shut up and take my money" posts on forums. Since publishers/developers know that gamers are just waiting for opportunity to throw money at them, they take advantage of that.
    Think about it if you plan to buy DLC, or pre-order a game.

    Again, Day One DLC is on a development cycle that finishes after the game has gone gold, at which point the game is being printed onto discs and nothing new can be added. You're not being swindled out of 20%, you're getting 120% on day one instead of later on.
  • Dannen6272Dannen6272 Member Posts: 28
    @Schneidend In an ideal world that's true, but investigation did show that From Ashes was on the disk and so should have been available to everyone. People were actually able to hack Javik into the game, even if they didn't have the DLC unlocked, because the files were already there. While I don't object to paying for day 1 dlc that was made separate from primary game development, if its on the disk then everyone should get it. It just becomes a problem when content is being removed from certain people because they didn't pay the extra $20 for the collector's edition, especially when that content is already there. Bioware can continue down this cash whoring route if they want, I don't care, their games have shown a significant drop in quality in the past couple years anyway.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190

    @Schneidend In an ideal world that's true, but investigation did show that From Ashes was on the disk and so should have been available to everyone. People were actually able to hack Javik into the game, even if they didn't have the DLC unlocked, because the files were already there. While I don't object to paying for day 1 dlc that was made separate from primary game development, if its on the disk then everyone should get it. It just becomes a problem when content is being removed from certain people because they didn't pay the extra $20 for the collector's edition, especially when that content is already there. Bioware can continue down this cash whoring route if they want, I don't care, their games have shown a significant drop in quality in the past couple years anyway.

    Were they able to play his mission, acquire the war assets, or use the extra character costumes? Do you have a link to your source? A video of somebody able to prove they don't have the DLC while using the character and all of the other content?

    Some data being on the disk reduces the risk of bugs and glitches that can often pop up with non-native content.
  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308

    Some data being on the disk reduces the risk of bugs and glitches that can often pop up with non-native content.

    Wouldn't that require forethought and planning that already uses part of the 'Original Game Development Cycle' for DLC content? I might add also that would in complete contradiction with 'Day One DLC is on a development cycle that finishes after the game has gone gold', ultimately meaning that game content is cut from the original product in order to sell overpriced modules later?
  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324
    This is why I wait a year and pick up the GOTY or Ultimate edition of a game (with all the DLC) at half the price of when the game was released. There's no reason why you have to have the game on release day.
    oldsch00lFrozenCellsnoodles_too
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Aliteri said:


    Wouldn't that require forethought and planning that already uses part of the 'Original Game Development Cycle' for DLC content? I might add also that would in complete contradiction with 'Day One DLC is on a development cycle that finishes after the game has gone gold', ultimately meaning that game content is cut from the original product in order to sell overpriced modules later?

    Yes it requires forethought, and planning, because development cycles are obviously planned in advance. DLC teams are given less strict deadlines, because if their content had to be entirely on the disc they'd have to finish before the game "goes gold" and has a concrete release date, which would delay the game. And, in order for things like the UI to accomodate things like extra character sprites in a squad selection menu, room is made on layouts and some of the data of the unfinished DLC is put on the disc as a sort of metaphorical slot for the DLC to easily fit into, like putting belt loops on a pair of pants. The pants aren't going to come with the belt, but they don't expect consumers to sew on their own belt loops. So, basically, the argument against Day One DLC is a lot like getting mad at a company that makes both pants and belts for not giving you the belt for free with the purchase of a pair of pants.
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't wow toting for awhile the 'come join 16 million active players' line for awhile? so let's low ball this, say it was just 12 million people and (lowball) 10 usd a month, that's 120 million usd a month, times 12 months. 1.440 billion a year. Maintaince? maybe the 440 million a year. expansions? you bought those.

    no, that kind of money doesn't lead to good games, it leads to laziness and greed. If our game bombs, ehhh, we're stilling making tons of money. And the greed part? man, we're only going to make 50 or 60 dollars a pop off this game and that's it? we got to find a way to milk this like wow.....

    Gaming has turned into a cash machine, nothing else. They give you shiny new graphics and complain about people buying 2nd hand games at gamestop. Why? Because the games now a day are pretty much shiney pretty crap and very few people are going to spend 50 bucks on them. The machine isn't producing as much as it should, so they blame who? themselves? nah. They blame the player.

    If we lived in a small town of 100 people, and we could only get the game local from this one person who started to charge outrageous prices, i could see EA coming to your house and beating on your door to yell at you for not buying their new game. Then they would try to force their way in the door or call the cops to see if you didn't buy it because you borrowed a copy or stole a copy. We feed these people and all they have for us gamers is contempt. I don't care if EA/Ubisoft/pretty close to saying Blizzard/and many more made the greatest game of all time tomorrow. I'm not going to buy it, i'm not going to pirate it, i'm not going to borrow it, and in the end, i'm not going to play it because i don't care what you make, so long as you treat me like crap, i'm not going to keep coming back and giving up my hard earned money to suck at the same teet.

    Why i'm such a fan of beamdog. I love the BG:EE, and no one knows what the future will bring, but for now, they treat the players like players, and they remind me of the interplay motto: For Gamers, By Gamers.

    And as a final note. Making games as friendly as possible is not a good idea when you have hardcore gamers. Mass Effect 1 i loved. It was an excellent RPG with military aspects/mindset, and the lore was stuff i needed to read. RTFM. Lol i had no clue what that meant, but ashley and shepard kept saying it and i found it in the lore.

    ME 2. Friendly. The lore was a copy/paste from the first game, was no longer an RPG, but a shooter/exploration game with some tacked on RPG. It was no longer military mindset, but hollywood mindset that tried to act like it was military. In both games i liked tali's char, and i wanted some closure there. So i bought....

    ME 3. Terrible terrible game. I hated that they got rid of infinate ammo in the first one, and the lame ass excuse they gave as to why they did. Then you start out the game and was just geez. Why not call this Call of Mass Effect or Modern Effect 3. You level up. Has no effect. You get abilities but that really has no effect. I played through til i got tali, saved her home world, went back to the ship, talked about how the geth and quarians were rebuilding. Saw the picture of her and realized i was done. I already heard about the ending, and from that point, made up my own ending as i hated the direction the game had taken and where it was going. In my opinion, it was mainstream, it was very newbie friendly, and it sucked horribly. You start with an RPG that uses guns, strip away all the RPG elements (nearly all) and the change everything about the world. Terrible terrible idea.

    I used to love bioware. :((
    Dannen6272Six
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    edited August 2012


    Were they able to play his mission, acquire the war assets, or use the extra character costumes? Do you have a link to your source? A video of somebody able to prove they don't have the DLC while using the character and all of the other content?

    Some data being on the disk reduces the risk of bugs and glitches that can often pop up with non-native content.

    sorry for double post, but when i heard of it, i went through some of the disk files and he is on the orginal printed disk. This story about he being in development while the game was printed is a lie. There's no way because 90% of his data is on the disk and only the unlocker and few placements weren't installed on the disk.

    Edit: a few quotes from developers talking about how gamers don't know anything.

    She went on to say that “Players rant, they know nothing about this DLC that’s coming out other than its name and it’s like “the game must be incomplete, the game must be ruined.”

    “Game developers are not evil… we just want to release awesome stuff. So players, please give us a chance, judge our games based on what they are, judge the DLC based on what it is, and stop thinking you’ra producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
    Dannen6272
  • Dannen6272Dannen6272 Member Posts: 28
    edited August 2012
    @Bjjorick I know what you mean, I used to love Bioware too. They were one of the few that I had on instant pre-order for all their games, it's too bad things have gone as they have. Its not even the DLC that chased me away, the quality of their games has dropped quite a bit too. After DA2 and ME3, I just can't take the bastardization of my favorite company anymore. Let EA milk it til its dead, seems to be what they're good at.

    Also, the original Mass Effect, I forgot how much more of an RPG it was until I went back to play it recently. It's too bad mass appeal has to kill good ideas.
    Bjjoricknoodles_too
Sign In or Register to comment.