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Stupid Female Fighter-Class Portraits

LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
edited August 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
Why is it that Baldur's Gate seems to have the best female warrior class portraits, while other RPGs fall into the trap of "Oh, I don't need armor in my picture- my almost bare chest is armor enough!" (I guess they expect male opponents to do a Tex Avery wolf-style freakout when going into battle...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVN1Apz45AE

http://www.kirith.com/portrait/detail/?portrait=1424 This female character will almost certainly be wearing her own blood as a new breastplate.
Post edited by LadyRhian on
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Comments

  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    This is a common problem I've noticed...Baldur's Gate wasn't immune either. I got really annoyed by the fact by that women wore chainmail skirts...what? Protecting your legs isn't important?

    I think 1PP fixed this. There's a big movement against this kind of art...and storytelling...lately, but it'll be a while before things improve I think.
  • KenjiKenji Member Posts: 251
    Yea, 1PP definitely improved the aesthetics aspect of BG series (Even IWD), thieves or bards that wore chainmail still had hoods and extra pauldrons were the reason why I loved it.

    Hope BGEE will introduce such upgrade.
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    Schneidend said:

    Fantasy artists know their audience is predominantly socially awkward young men. The end.

    This stuff is everywhere, in movies, tv shows, games, adds, so it's not for "socially awkward young men" only but for men at all. What they try to do is selling s*x because many man will buy it, not all but many. Fantasy artists are like fantasy fans - nice guys, in my opinion.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    In WOW, it's worse. Female races look sexier and prettier than their male counterparts. Barring the ones that are undead or Lycanthropic. And chainmail/plate bikinis run rampant, too, at least for warrior females.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Silence said:

    This is a common problem I've noticed...Baldur's Gate wasn't immune either. I got really annoyed by the fact by that women wore chainmail skirts...what? Protecting your legs isn't important?

    I don't see the issue with that one. Male elves are all in skirts too. Male dwarves wear skirt looking things.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Silence said:

    This is a common problem I've noticed...Baldur's Gate wasn't immune either. I got really annoyed by the fact by that women wore chainmail skirts...what? Protecting your legs isn't important?

    I think 1PP fixed this. There's a big movement against this kind of art...and storytelling...lately, but it'll be a while before things improve I think.

    To be fair, male cleric sprites and male elves wore skirts with plate mail, so it's not exactly gender bias.

    @LadyRhian

    Not entirely true on the WoW bit. My female orc warrior was generally fully-clothed past level 40 or so. Not that this excuses the art direction for levels 1-39.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    @LadyRhian : Google "Tera female armor" and have some of the worst protective female armors in history O_O

    I agree with what @Schneidend said regarding armors for women though. Never got what's up with the sexy nudist stuff anyway >.<
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    Having female warriors be viable in combat is fantasy itself, so I see no problem with them being dressed in fantastic ways. Personally though, I would like women to be portrayed modestly in RPGs.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    It's a fantasy game, people rarely want to play a bad looking character in a fantasy game. The whole female angle tends to be overstated as well, most male character will end up being very muscular, and often at least partially topless.
    I don't mind hot looking outfits at all, but there is a certain amount of compromise to be reached here I think.
  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    LadyRhian said:

    http://www.kirith.com/portrait/detail/vault/200505191425-TachionL.jpg This female character will almost certainly be wearing her own blood as a new breastplate.

    I can't see it.

    Anyway. It's probably more armour than Conan ever wore.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Kitteh_On_A_Cloud said:

    NancyButtpeach said:

    Having female warriors be viable in combat is fantasy itself, so I see no problem with them being dressed in fantastic ways. Personally though, I would like women to be portrayed modestly in RPGs.

    Nice way to get around posting a provocative sexist remark while keeping yourself out of shooting range. Too bad your post's shallowness gives away your true intentions. Obvious troll is obvious.
    You miss-use the word "troll," but other than that I agree. :\
    It's a fantasy game, people rarely want to play a bad looking character in a fantasy game. The whole female angle tends to be overstated as well, most male character will end up being very muscular, and often at least partially topless.
    I don't mind hot looking outfits at all, but there is a certain amount of compromise to be reached here I think.
    Very well said.
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    edited August 2012
    I am not being a troll; I am stating what is true. Combat is masculine; women are receptive and nurturing in their personhood. Having female warriors- who are not aberrantly masculine like the bodybuilders (I have seen them, and they don't look like women) you have mentioned- is fantasy. Most players do not want to play such characters, so the 90-lbs barbarians in little clothing dominate the art.

    I am also wondering what "shooting range" is and what "merciful" means.
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    I am all for Women in full plate and it being full plate. If you want a female wearing no armour, role a Kensai. As for the Viable fighting comment, boo to you sir, boo to you. I watched the female boxing finals during the Olympics and I can happily say I would not last a single round with those girls. Nicola Adams was amazing.
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    Now pit those women against male boxers...
  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    NancyButtpeach said:

    I am stating what is true. Combat is masculine; women are receptive and nurturing in their personhood.

    Many ancient cultures had female warriors. Jeanne d'arc Led a demoralised French army into battle as a teenaged girl. Boudica led an uprising of celts so fierce it took the Romans several battles to regroup into a formidable enough forse to finally stop them. Do you require any more sources?
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    edited August 2012
    Jolanthus: Does anyone really think that listing a handful of odd exceptions like female bodybuilders (who are not feminine) and saintly French women makes a point?
  • WoldanWoldan Member Posts: 41
    edited August 2012
    Jolanthus said:


    Many ancient cultures had female warriors. Jeanne d'arc Led a demoralised French army into battle as a teenaged girl.

    Yeah, she even was at the very front line but contrary to popular belief she never fought the enemy with sword and shield, she was just a religious symbol and a moral boost for the troops.
    (She was hit by a longbow arrow in the neck/shoulder area though)
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Let's not start the debate of 'are women as viable fighters as men' again, that didn't go well before either. In the Forgotten Realms they are, that's all that matters.

    Chainmail bikini's are, of course, ridiculous (and they chafe like *hell*) bu I've seen a fair amount of recent games where this is muchly improved. Practicly all fantasy art from the eighties was in Conan style; Men with bared super muscular chests wielding giant weapons, women with giant boobs and a max of half a kilo of armour on. Recent artwork and game design sees a fair bit more equality, which is always a good thing.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    Won't make any names, but...

    Obtuse thinking get people nowhere nowadays. I've seen female martial artists and fencers beat the sorry asses of males many times now. Truth is - I am a big guy, strong physically, but against a trained woman in combat, I would be dead in 1 second.

    Physical capabilities or not, it simply is like that. Oh and Female bodybuilders are exactly what they are - female. Not calling them so makes people even more obtuse.
  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    NancyButtpeach said:

    Jolanthus: Does anyone really think that listing a handful of odd exceptions like female bodybuilders (who are not feminine) and saintly French women makes a point?

    An entire army of Naked 2nd century Vietnamese women kicked the occupying Chinese out of Vietnam. Reports are one high ranking officer even gave birth in the middle of battle and went on to continue fighting. I'm pretty certain 2nd century Vietnamese women were not bodybuilders.

    There are enough examples through history of ordinary women doing extraordinary things on the battlefield to not make it purely the domain of men.

  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    edited August 2012
    Cheesebelly: Female bodybuilders are female, but not feminine. I am guessing by "obtuse" you mean thinking that you do not agree with...

    Jolanthus: Again, you dig up the strangest things. Women warriors work in Baldur's Gate because it is a computer game; it is not trying to be real. They could be (and often are) portrayed as 90 pound bikini-clad runway models, but so long as their stats say Str 18/00, Dex 18 and Con 18, they'll do just fine. If you wish for the art to be more realistic, have all the female art be of hulking, square-jawed amazons in full plate. Now those kind of women could and (rarely) do exist and could fight along with men, but why bother? People want attractive art (I would actually like modest art) to represent their characters. They don't care much for realism in video games.

    To be clear: My issue is with people who want females to be in armor appropriate for medieval combat- because being dressed in a metal skirt and bra is unrealistic, but are fine with the appearance of women warriors otherwise. It seems very arbitrary. The notion that "It is okay to have a 90 pound she-warrior, so long as she is dressed realistically" does not resonate with me.
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    edited August 2012
    It's D&D...its MAGIC armor! Therefore, if a character can wear an ion stone on their head to give them a +1 armor rating, wearing a chainmail skirt, or chainmail bra is esthetics. Honestly, how realistic would it be for a 90lbs elf walking hundreds of miles in the forests wearing head to toe plate armor? Talk about chafing! Na, more realistic to wear the magical bikini chainmail. We're talking realism here ---- in a magical land of dragons! ;)

    Come on men, am I right or am I right?
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    Jolanthus said:



    There are enough examples through history of ordinary women doing extraordinary things on the battlefield to not make it purely the domain of men.

    I'm happy to report that Wiki has an entire section devoted to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudity_in_combat =)
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    I've thought we've slowly evolved from the plate mail bikini models in games (well, serious games; I'm looking at you, chainsaw-bikini-cheerleader game people). NWN had a portrait of a blonde in full armor, I think under the half-elf listing, that was perfect IMO. The last bastion of the semi-nude appears to be the sorceror/sorceress grouping, as if the baring-it-all makes them more magical. Maybe shallow beauty is fine, but I prefer when there is more depth.

    My favorite female character to this point is Ashley Williams from Mass Effect - tough as nails and doesn't do the sterotypical things that make her either seem to be a caricature of a woman or a sex toy. In BG, I always appreciated that about Jaheira - one of my favorite characters ever. There's a lot of Jaheira hate that I don't understand, but that doesn't happen in my world. She's tough, honest and packs a wallop when she tromps you.

    Compare that to Aerie. I'd cast her off as annoying after 20 minutes. If it even took that long.

    Have yet to add Viconia to a party. It's on my to-do list. Just never had a need for her skills, so I didn't try with her in the party.
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