My only worry is that it's acknowledged that this beta is actually missing a BUNCH of content/skills that will be in the final release (and is barely different then the Alpha demo promo'd a few months back).
As mentioned, I've been heavily involved in a lot of alpha and pre-alpha projects and the game's state as a "beta" is worrisome at best. While adding features in a beta isn't unheard of, it's not usually planned features, but rather features that are added after the fact to address unforseen changes, where as planned features are usually introduced back in the alpha stage.
Especially if it's supposed to release officially by the end of this year..unless that's been pushed back.
So far one things that's worried me a lot is disconnect in the skill system, where your class pretty much just determines how you kill stuff (and have very little variety in that regard) while the skill system is wide open for every one to pick anything. This risks every play-through becoming samey and hurts the re-playability and gravity in class/party choices.
As for the stat choices, i actually kind of like it. Because nothing is more samey then allowing someone to roll for hours for near-perfect stats every playthrough instead of MAKING them make a choice.
the more I played DnD the more I came to hate most of the rolled stat systems (especially as a DM), since 99.9% of everyone wants superman, no matter how long they have to take, and get upset when you inform them that you have a strict 1 roll set (3d6)/no modification/free placement policy or they can choose point buy if they're not happy with the result.
As long as the point buy amount is sufficient to the level of challenge you're planning to throw at them, that's all you really need (hell, even the standard array is a fairly versatile stat-set, since your stats, in a REAL game, are only a small part of the character anyway and are more to give you a framework guideline for how to roleplay it rather then as actual benefits). The rest ultimately depends on the game, and whether or not they actually enforce roleplaying based on stats/skills/class or just letting people pick whatever they want (which heavily undermines having social oriented stats/skills at all or if the combat system is broken enough to allow you to ignore the balancing mechanics).
Better let them take their time instead of releasing an unfinished game. Otherwise doing a KickStarter instead of finding a regular publisher would have been pretty pointless.
Beta testers, are you satisified with the items in the game? Baldurs Gate II is the best game of all time, imo, when it comes to having interesting, unique, hard to find and powerful items. I want things like Celestial Fury, not stupid leveled items like Improved Electrical Katana of Shocking like so many RPGs do this days. Generic, leveled items suck.
@Buttercheese I never told that I'll be sad if PoE will be pushed back! @Cluas We'll see, in that case I really hope the game will be released complete and refined, but if they'll need more time, so they'll take it, then. I don't want a rush for a deadline: everyone here knows the implication of such a thing. Also I remember you all again X:Rebirth as one of the most recent examples of what means to rush because everyone wanted a deadline, complaining because the game wasn't already completed and published. Result? A raw and pretty bugged and unbalanced product (sadly, I must say: I'm a fan of the X series since ever).
@FleshIsADesignFlaw: items design is IE games-inspired, even if it is too early to tell: most of the assets are still missings, but a thing I can tell you: there are item icons that should be item-specific, not generic icons; weapons and armors are defined and not level-based: in the beta I've seen expensive magic weapons with their descriptions including a sketch, stats and story sold in the same smith shop near normal weapons which are much cheaper and with base stats and descriptions, pretty much like IE games.
My only real issue that I'd rather the game not be too monty haul. That's one of main issues with BG2 in general (vanilla BG felt a little more natural in that regard). It throws TOO MUCH ridiculously powerful stuff at you with almost no effort or challenge involved (some of which is terribly implemented and overpowered).
Though randomized loot could offset it somewhat, by ensuring that the unique and extremely powerful items, only a small number of the list can be encounter in each playthrough. Such as only finding 1, maybe 2 artifact quality items in a play through, with less powerful unique weapons being a little more numerous, and so forth (not that a simple +1 sword can't have a rich history and be well loved, though it mostly depends on the setting and overall saturation of magic in a particular locale). And would increase the repeatability and heavily reduce the impact of fore-knowledge, which is the unfortunate downfall of a great many RPGs and leads them to becoming stale overtime no matter what class you choose because you'll ultimately end up exactly the same just with a different party member playing the role you did the previous run but the gear stays the same.
(Ideally loot tables would be generated at the beginning of the game to prevent reloading abuses).
Well so far, that recent patch seems to have fixed a lot of terrible slow downs I was having, but most of my other complaints remain the same. While there is definitely enforced roleplaying (needing to meet certain requirements to be able to use particular responses, which I like), the lack of complexity is still slightly worrying, but they're said this isn't all the skills and such...so ....hopefully it'll improve as it gets closer to release date.
I want to love this game. I do. BUT I really dislike the stuff that was changed unnecessarily. It was supposed to be a "spiritual successor" to the IE games... Well, they changed too much stuff, that's all I can say ...
Come to think of it, does the beta support traveling on (or below) water? While I don't think PoE supports swimming, it would still be really nice to have means to cross large bodies of water with a boat, spell, or some sort of submarine-ish watercraft.
I´ve read a lot about the beta and now i just wait for the game. I will not bother to check all the negative stuff about the game and judge it for my OWN once it´s a complete experience. First they all wanted to do beta stuff and then they realize oh it´s just a buggy beta somehow...
I knew that most people dont help obsidian but throw around dirt at the game because it didnt hit their personal preference to 100 %. They just didnt understand what a beta test is supposed to be, a TEST to help the dev. nothing more!
I have no idea how similar they're making this to the IE games. I suspect -- although I'm not sure if it's a fair assessment -- that they're making several design decisions which are departures from the IE games.
The XP system, the health system, the magic stash... it's like someone is treating this as their pet project to test out things they believe are superior to the IE systems. The talk of "degenerative gameplay" is also rather... pungent.
I was over there a few weeks ago (posting hardcore optional settings I hope they'll add) and again today. I remain cautious on how this game will turn out. Until we see the other areas (the beta is tiny?), we won't know how balanced or unbalanced the game is.
In the beta area... 1) Wilderness areas are apparently tiny. (skunk is fan of bg1)
2) You only get xp a few times. There is no combat or even exploration xp, and there is no (or little?) quest xp until the very end of a quest. (eg. no xp for, say, getting components used in the quest endgame)
3) The health injury stamina system is just strange. There are no healing spells or potions -- but if you sleep for 8 hours, all your injuries (including "maimed" and "poison" status?) are healed. Makes no sense.
4) The ranger _must_ have a companion animal? You can't have a ranger without one. The designer seems to think all classes must be notably different from the other or it's not worth having them.
5) The magic stash system allows players to pick up everything -- absolutely everything?! -- by providing an unlimited(?) stash. You can put things in the stash whenever you like, but the stash can be accessed at towns and at campsites. How does this make sense in the game universe? As a hardcore gamer, I'll ignore the stash*, but it makes no sense. (*unless we're given tons of stupid quest keys/items which take up lots of slots)
I'm not saying we should all panic or hurl abuse at Obsidian. Just that we have to wait and see. And when we finally get a good look at things, it will probably look rather odd.
Ah. Will take a look in another few weeks.
Couple things I'd like to point out are that:
1. I haven't played the beta too much, but at least the wilderness areas I've seen are comparable to those of BG1. The thing is that the two you see first are both shore maps, and like shore maps of BG1 the watery part takes big chunk of the real estate.
2. The XP thing is very, very beta. Especially in the first beta build many things that were supposed to give XP didn't. Eg. the thing you mention about not getting anything until the end of the quest is definitely not how it's supposed to function.
Also if you read the beta forums the lead designer has actually talked about the xp thing a lot, and they are considering many additions, like eg. exploration xp you mentioned.
3. I agree that the health system is bit strange. But it makes lot more sense once you realize stamina is really your health for most purposes. Also there are healing spells, they just heal your stamina.
5. I'm just going to say that at least I never haven't even once had to leave something to wolves in any IE game because I couldn't carry it with me. So for me personally this makes absolutely no difference.
I do realize though that from pure roleplaying point of view it might seem strange. What I personally imagine is your party doing a run back to your camp site and leaving the stuff there and coming back. That just isn't shown for sake of saving time.
As you say everyone should just wait for the final product before making any final judgements.
I basically agree with @Messi, that's how I see the "stash" as well. Not that it matters much, inventory system hardly ever make any sense anyway. Might as well have a system with an abstract "return go the entrance to leave it there while you explore further" function. It makes sense to me, at least.
5. I'm just going to say that at least I never haven't even once had to leave something to wolves in any IE game because I couldn't carry it with me. So for me personally this makes absolutely no difference.
Seems like you never played BG with a solo character. Inventory slots are sacred on solo runs. Also, in BG1, there were no Potion Bags, no Scroll Cases, no Bags of Holding, etc, so if you wanted to carry something with you, you had to carry it with you (and if you don't need it but you'd like to still have the item you can store it on a random container and write down the pace on the User Journal).
this game is kind of odd for me, I'm looking forward to it but I know its just not going to tick the boxes for me as its already clear that much of what I love in BG is not going to be present here regardless of how much obsidian want to bill it as a spiritual successor
I think the problem is that the game was advertised as a spiritual successor to the IE games. On the one hand I guess they needed to say that to raise enough money, on the other hand every slight or bigger deviation from the IE games is accompanied by an outcry of the community at the Obsidian forum.
yes this is the problem imo . tbh I don't really like people making these claims(atleast to the extent obsidian did) it feels like they are inviting disappointment and exploiting nostalgia to an extent. And lets face it Obsidian did little to temper expectations. I think they should have been more open in what to expect in this regard or at least explained what they consider the spiritual successor of games like bg to be. While you can fault people for insulting the devs you cant fault them for there response.
Everyone has their own interpretation of what qualifies a game as a spiritual successor to the IE games. Now Obsidian has the problem that they are expected to cater to all these, sometimes mutually exclusive, interpretations while at the same time they want to add their own ideas to the game.
yep this pretty much sums up my situation. if you asked me why I love baldurs gate the reasons I would give don't really factor all that much into PoE it would seem. That doesn't mean I wont like PoE but it does mean I'm slightly disappointed by it before its even launched.
These negative comments, to me, come as a result of high expectations.
When you enter the PoE site, the first thing you notice is: "Miss classic cRPGs like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we! Introducing Obsidian's PILLARS OF ETERNITY."
From the very start of the whole project they have positioned their future game as the one that can stand in the legendary line of BG, IWD and PST.
And to me this is a nearly impossible task. No matter how many effort you put into a project, it's EXCEPTIONALLY hard to become so good that people would stop criticising this or that - taking into account the heaviweights of BG, IWD and PST as comparisons which the company itself has chosen as the examples.
So, such high expectations automatically demand high results. And when people don't find them, the negativity rises.
Comments
@Buttercheese: I might or might not have misinterpreted @Cluas statement while raging... u,u
Aw yiss.
As mentioned, I've been heavily involved in a lot of alpha and pre-alpha projects and the game's state as a "beta" is worrisome at best. While adding features in a beta isn't unheard of, it's not usually planned features, but rather features that are added after the fact to address unforseen changes, where as planned features are usually introduced back in the alpha stage.
Especially if it's supposed to release officially by the end of this year..unless that's been pushed back.
So far one things that's worried me a lot is disconnect in the skill system, where your class pretty much just determines how you kill stuff (and have very little variety in that regard) while the skill system is wide open for every one to pick anything. This risks every play-through becoming samey and hurts the re-playability and gravity in class/party choices.
the more I played DnD the more I came to hate most of the rolled stat systems (especially as a DM), since 99.9% of everyone wants superman, no matter how long they have to take, and get upset when you inform them that you have a strict 1 roll set (3d6)/no modification/free placement policy or they can choose point buy if they're not happy with the result.
As long as the point buy amount is sufficient to the level of challenge you're planning to throw at them, that's all you really need (hell, even the standard array is a fairly versatile stat-set, since your stats, in a REAL game, are only a small part of the character anyway and are more to give you a framework guideline for how to roleplay it rather then as actual benefits). The rest ultimately depends on the game, and whether or not they actually enforce roleplaying based on stats/skills/class or just letting people pick whatever they want (which heavily undermines having social oriented stats/skills at all or if the combat system is broken enough to allow you to ignore the balancing mechanics).
Otherwise doing a KickStarter instead of finding a regular publisher would have been pretty pointless.
What are items like in POE?
@Cluas We'll see, in that case I really hope the game will be released complete and refined, but if they'll need more time, so they'll take it, then. I don't want a rush for a deadline: everyone here knows the implication of such a thing.
Also I remember you all again X:Rebirth as one of the most recent examples of what means to rush because everyone wanted a deadline, complaining because the game wasn't already completed and published. Result? A raw and pretty bugged and unbalanced product (sadly, I must say: I'm a fan of the X series since ever).
Though randomized loot could offset it somewhat, by ensuring that the unique and extremely powerful items, only a small number of the list can be encounter in each playthrough. Such as only finding 1, maybe 2 artifact quality items in a play through, with less powerful unique weapons being a little more numerous, and so forth (not that a simple +1 sword can't have a rich history and be well loved, though it mostly depends on the setting and overall saturation of magic in a particular locale). And would increase the repeatability and heavily reduce the impact of fore-knowledge, which is the unfortunate downfall of a great many RPGs and leads them to becoming stale overtime no matter what class you choose because you'll ultimately end up exactly the same just with a different party member playing the role you did the previous run but the gear stays the same.
(Ideally loot tables would be generated at the beginning of the game to prevent reloading abuses).
I knew that most people dont help obsidian but throw around dirt at the game because it didnt hit their personal preference to 100 %. They just didnt understand what a beta test is supposed to be, a TEST to help the dev. nothing more!
1. I haven't played the beta too much, but at least the wilderness areas I've seen are comparable to those of BG1. The thing is that the two you see first are both shore maps, and like shore maps of BG1 the watery part takes big chunk of the real estate.
2. The XP thing is very, very beta. Especially in the first beta build many things that were supposed to give XP didn't. Eg. the thing you mention about not getting anything until the end of the quest is definitely not how it's supposed to function.
Also if you read the beta forums the lead designer has actually talked about the xp thing a lot, and they are considering many additions, like eg. exploration xp you mentioned.
3. I agree that the health system is bit strange. But it makes lot more sense once you realize stamina is really your health for most purposes. Also there are healing spells, they just heal your stamina.
5. I'm just going to say that at least I never haven't even once had to leave something to wolves in any IE game because I couldn't carry it with me. So for me personally this makes absolutely no difference.
I do realize though that from pure roleplaying point of view it might seem strange. What I personally imagine is your party doing a run back to your camp site and leaving the stuff there and coming back. That just isn't shown for sake of saving time.
As you say everyone should just wait for the final product before making any final judgements.
Also, in BG1, there were no Potion Bags, no Scroll Cases, no Bags of Holding, etc, so if you wanted to carry something with you, you had to carry it with you (and if you don't need it but you'd like to still have the item you can store it on a random container and write down the pace on the User Journal).
BG3 would be in 3d after all.