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So Drizzt is only the 6th strongest swordsman in Faerun.

SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
edited July 2015 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
So I was just checking out some info on Drizzt's weapons, seeing if they match their representations in BG and I found this little list

According to Ed Greenwood, the top swordsmen in the Realms are in order: the human Harmel Artru of Sembia, the half-elf and son of Alustriel Maethrammar Aerasume of Silverymoon, the human Loaros Hammarandar of Narubel, the human Ember Tsartaera from Aglarond, the human Skoalam Marlgrask from Chessenta, and the dark elf Drizzt Do'Urden.

He does state the ranks change very quickly, because the skill levels are so very close.

Artemis Entreri, ranks around ninth.

Now I tried to do some research on these guys and gals and guess what nothing pops up, so there are no books on any of them, all I found where base descriptions of the characters, In a Ed Greenwood quote.

So I was just wondering if you guys know anything about any of them?

Also on another note, don't you feel Drizzt is a little underleveled? He's a level 10 fighter, 5 ranger, 1 barb and with the 2 level adjustment from being drow, so that's 18. With all he's done, he should really be in the 20's by now.

Comments

  • TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    To be fair, those are 3e levels, and 16th level was already fairly respectable. From what I remember, Drizzt wasn't even in his first century in age back then, so he's fairly young for an elf.

    Entreri was an ordinary human and was getting old so it's natural that his skills were suffering as a result. I don't know if becoming part shade helped him recover his skill or just slowed his aging massively.
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    @SmilingSword Here's an info about Methrammar Aerasumé. His official stats puts him at Ftr7/Wiz9 in 3ed. Hardly a master swordsman in my book.
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    edited July 2015
    Cahir said:

    @SmilingSword Here's an info about Methrammar Aerasumé. His official stats puts him at Ftr7/Wiz9 in 3ed. Hardly a master swordsman in my book.

    Yeah thanks, I did see that while searching, but the swordsman in question is his son.
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    Ah, did not know that. I have vague knowledge about FR lore post 3 ed. (4th ed. should be buried and forgotten).
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    What seems surprising to me is that so many of the top swordsmen are humans. You'd think that with lifespans in the hundreds, elves would just walk all over them in terms of practice...
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    What seems surprising to me is that so many of the top swordsmen are humans. You'd think that with lifespans in the hundreds, elves would just walk all over them in terms of practice...

    Completely agree, but that goes for everything, mages, rogues, whatever, Elves should be better because they have a so much longer to practice at these things.
    But writers tend to favor humans and it always gets gets explained away as humans having some incredible drive or some other bollocks.
    Really makes no sense.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I guess with magic you can at least make the argument that high-level mages will live a long time regardless of race (for whatever reason, lich, Chosen, Wish spell, etc.). In fact mage power seems to be at least somewhat proportional to age, which is apparently not the case for swordsmanship.

    Another thing to consider would be that human fighters probably have their physical peak across a fairly narrow time frame (usually between 20-35), while an elf could sustain their physical performance for a lot longer. Wasn't that mentioned with Drizzt somewhere, that Entreri is starting to show his age etc.? Haven't read any of the books but I recall hearing about that.
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    Artemius_I said:

    Entreri was an ordinary human and was getting old so it's natural that his skills were suffering as a result. I don't know if becoming part shade helped him recover his skill or just slowed his aging massively.

    It completely stopped his aging but it wasn't due to being part shade. Don't know if people have read the latter Neverwinter-books so...

    Artemis Entreri stopped aging because of his sword, Charon's Claw. The sword enslaved his soul, but it also made Entreri unkillable. On the 3rd book, Entreri destroys the sword with Drizzt's help, and gains back his soul. Contrary to what everybody believes, Entreri doesn't turn to ash when the sword maintaining him is destroyed.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Not that age or death is any real hurdle for RAS characters. If they should die, just come back in another version!

    /sarcasm
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    My guess is that for older elves, the weight of years starts to weigh upon them. Sure, that human spent 10 years doing nothing but swording, and you spent 100...but then you took up pottery. Started sailing. Made some ice sculptures. Decided to give spears and bows a chance. Before you know it, you haven't sworded in awhile.

    Never aging probably means that you do alot, but don't do anything all the time and don't see the point of being constantly perfect and training with that one thing. Besides, know how dwarves call elves flighty? I'm pretty sure that this is one of the reasons why.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I could take Drizzt with arms tied behind my back.
  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    I thought Artermis would rank higher. He's a very calculating swordsmen. Always like reading his fights.
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    That's only because Drizzt doesn't know those other guys aren't left handed.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Always aim for second place. If you are the *best* then then only place you can go is downwards but if you are the second best at something you have to practice to keep your skills sharp to stay in second place and it makes that one person who is "better" than you are nervous.

    I developed that philosophy back in high school during my time on the Academic Decathlon team. I didn't win any gold medals but I won so many silver medals that my fellow decathletes, some of whom were one-trick ponies, didn't have an overall score as high as mine. Which is better, two golds or eight silvers?
  • BanArdBanArd Member Posts: 60
    This will always be a highly contentious discussion. Most of the names in that old listing were backed up by barely more than brief blurbs from Ed, and had no fiction attached to them. The Realms are supposed to be such a big world that there have been, and probably always will be, plenty of other fighters that are technically better than Drizzt and Artemis, and that listing was just one weakly way of illustrating that to us. The humans in Ed's listing have died (with possible exceptions), and new fighters have been born that equal or better them.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited July 2015
    @SmilingSword: It makes sense for humans to be over-represented among great adventurers and once-mortal gods. Dating back to Tolkien, humans have been stated to be very ambitious critters compared to elves and dwarves, and that humans make the most of the little time they have. The idea that humans have tremendous drive, and naturally tend toward extremes, is a very old trope in fantasy.

    It's not just a rationalization.

    EDIT: Besides, humans would be pitiful vermin if they had nothing to compensate for their short lifespans. The alternative is a world where elves are a superior master race that humans could never match. What fun is inequality like that?
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    edited July 2015
    semiticgod said:


    EDIT: Besides, humans would be pitiful vermin if they had nothing to compensate for their short lifespans. The alternative is a world where elves are a superior master race that humans could never match. What fun is inequality like that?

    Well, when you start to think about it, humans outnumber every other race (except maybe orcs) individually like 100 to 1.

    What I think is that humans are physically more suited to being swordsmen than elves or dwarves. Elves are lithe, and humans can overpower elves when fighting, and against dwarves, humans have a clear height-advantage. Orcs make good soldiers because of their physical qualities, but they don't have the brains or the morale to become great fighters.

    Another thing that puts all the races on the same line is that a great warrior is not only strong and skilled with his weapons, he is also smart. What makes Drizzt such a great swordsman, is his speed and the fact that he is never surprised. He always has the right response to any given situation. The only times Drizzt has been defeated in a fight, are when he has been emotionally unstable.

    I DO think there should be a Half-orc or two on that list, since they are even better suited to being great fighters than humans. Even that may be accounted to the extremely low numbers of half-orcs in the Realms.
  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    @Grum or Flailmen, Athrogate had Drizzt on the ropes.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Chidojuan said:

    @Grum or Flailmen, Athrogate had Drizzt on the ropes.

    That warms my cold little dwarven heart.
  • EnialusMeliamneEnialusMeliamne Member Posts: 399
    Chidojuan said:

    @Grum or Flailmen, Athrogate had Drizzt on the ropes.

    BWAHAHA!!
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    Here is a link to the thread with Ed Greenwood's detailed explanation about the ranking: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5966

    Note, that the list is about skill with the blade, not about net combat efficiency. So no " 'street smarts' or dirty fighting or the adventurers’ experience in exploiting traction, lighting, obstacles, distractions, and all of that".
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