@Torin That information is from the last week. Nonetheless, discussing the release date and the current state of TToN and sharing opinions about it in this thread is off-topic.
Coming back to the @brus 's question I think that the release of TToN should have no impact on Siege of Dragonspear - they are two different games, with different worlds and although there will be people who will play both games, their audience is slightly different. With TToN, there're a lot of backers waiting for that game, while with SoD, there're all those players who bought BGEE.
"oh great, now that meanie is hitting me with their sword. just perfect. get it over with then, I just don't see how I can do anything to stop you, everything is so.. hopeless."
/endChannelingMarvin
Brain the size of a planet and they hit me with a sword...
Why don't we have a release date on this game? When does the beta start? Why aren't you giving us more information? I want this game now! Will Oscar be able to induce Emotion:Hoplessness by insulting his enemies?
Why don't we have a release date on this game? When does the beta start? Why aren't you giving us more information? I want this game now! Will Oscar be able to induce Emotion:Hoplessness by insulting his enemies?
I wonder if/when "Oscar 2.5: Oscar goes Wilde: Spring break edition" comes out, and whether or not Oscar throws of his fancy purple garments and get some 'beads of protection' instead?
"Gee, things are so hopeless right now, I think I'll just lie down here and give up"
There's a huge difference between surrendering when demanded to do so & committing suicide by virtue of lying prone while being struck for damage with obvious intent to kill. There is no way I can rationally equivocate the opposite of "The effect... to raise morale, saving throw rolls, attack rolls, and damage caused by +2." with "I just going to allow myself to be slain outright without making any attempt to either escape the physical threat or failing that to reluctantly defending myself as a last resort in a last ditch attempt to preserve my life."
I've actually had to referee such a situation when DMing in the past. If the target of the spell is attacked with intent to kill (instead of something obviously within the power of the spell like demanding surrender & ordering submission to being disarmed & restrained) I would adjudicate the target would attempt to flee. If the target was prevented or otherwise unable to flee it would reluctantly attempt to defend its life at an additional -2 penalty to saving throws, attacks, damage, etc...
Off-topic for this thread, but as the Sleep topic will not die...
One of the mechanics missing from the BG engine but part of the tabletop D&D game is the coup-de-gras mechanic. When a (N)PC is prone and helpless before you, it is not resisting and doing all the things that justify HP and AC, and so you can do significantly more damage in a single round - coup-de-gras ramped that up all the way to an instant kill.
BG, lacking the coup-de-gras, allowed Sleep spells to extend beyond the original hit as, as it did not outright kill the target as it should, you could get there quickly with a few more shots. This makes less sense in BG2 where monsters have significantly more hits, but I'm not sure you were allowed to coup-de-gras a dragon either.
The current state of play loses not only that compromise, but cripples significantly higher level spells as well. If there is a desire for sanity in the face of sleep effects (waking up after suitable provocation) then some kind of rebalancing to allow significantly more damage while prone would help - such as giving everyone a free backstab/critical against such targets, but that is moving the goalposts again, and yet another game rebalancing to consider.
I don't play sleep effects much myself, so I'm not overly impacted by this change (other than when it is case at me, in which case I win!) However, the game supports many play styles, and I support those impacted by this, especially the nerfing of high level spells (and doubly so for a character like a sorcerer who cannot replace an already-chosen spell).
Except that the AD&D equivalent of "coup-de-grace" mechanic (i.e., the automatic kill when the defender is sleeping or held) only applies if combat is otherwise over. During normal combat, a sleeping or held opponent can be automatically hit, but only takes normal damage.
So, if you're plinking away at a sleeping opponent during combat, they should wake up. It's only if you wait until all the other opponents are dead (or also sleeping/held) that the "instant kill" mechanic should come into play.
An automatic critical hit could work, or perhaps all hits on sleeping/held creatures could do maximum damage?
Except that the AD&D equivalent of "coup-de-grace" mechanic (i.e., the automatic kill when the defender is sleeping or held) only applies if combat is otherwise over. During normal combat, a sleeping or held opponent can be automatically hit, but only takes normal damage.
So, if you're plinking away at a sleeping opponent during combat, they should wake up. It's only if you wait until all the other opponents are dead (or also sleeping/held) that the "instant kill" mechanic should come into play.
An automatic critical hit could work, or perhaps all hits on sleeping/held creatures could do maximum damage?
That would be a good solution. Make it a critical hit doing max damage but if the creature survives it wakes up.
Comments
Coming back to the @brus 's question I think that the release of TToN should have no impact on Siege of Dragonspear - they are two different games, with different worlds and although there will be people who will play both games, their audience is slightly different. With TToN, there're a lot of backers waiting for that game, while with SoD, there're all those players who bought BGEE.
When does the beta start?
Why aren't you giving us more information?
I want this game now!
Will Oscar be able to induce Emotion:Hoplessness by insulting his enemies?
When does the beta start?
Why aren't you giving us more information?
I want this game now!
Will Oscar be able to induce Emotion:Hoplessness by insulting his enemies?
I wonder if/when "Oscar 2.5: Oscar goes Wilde: Spring break edition" comes out, and whether or not Oscar throws of his fancy purple garments and get some 'beads of protection' instead?
I've actually had to referee such a situation when DMing in the past. If the target of the spell is attacked with intent to kill (instead of something obviously within the power of the spell like demanding surrender & ordering submission to being disarmed & restrained) I would adjudicate the target would attempt to flee. If the target was prevented or otherwise unable to flee it would reluctantly attempt to defend its life at an additional -2 penalty to saving throws, attacks, damage, etc...
Emotion: Hopelessness is not a Domination spell.
One of the mechanics missing from the BG engine but part of the tabletop D&D game is the coup-de-gras mechanic. When a (N)PC is prone and helpless before you, it is not resisting and doing all the things that justify HP and AC, and so you can do significantly more damage in a single round - coup-de-gras ramped that up all the way to an instant kill.
BG, lacking the coup-de-gras, allowed Sleep spells to extend beyond the original hit as, as it did not outright kill the target as it should, you could get there quickly with a few more shots. This makes less sense in BG2 where monsters have significantly more hits, but I'm not sure you were allowed to coup-de-gras a dragon either.
The current state of play loses not only that compromise, but cripples significantly higher level spells as well. If there is a desire for sanity in the face of sleep effects (waking up after suitable provocation) then some kind of rebalancing to allow significantly more damage while prone would help - such as giving everyone a free backstab/critical against such targets, but that is moving the goalposts again, and yet another game rebalancing to consider.
I don't play sleep effects much myself, so I'm not overly impacted by this change (other than when it is case at me, in which case I win!) However, the game supports many play styles, and I support those impacted by this, especially the nerfing of high level spells (and doubly so for a character like a sorcerer who cannot replace an already-chosen spell).
So, if you're plinking away at a sleeping opponent during combat, they should wake up. It's only if you wait until all the other opponents are dead (or also sleeping/held) that the "instant kill" mechanic should come into play.
An automatic critical hit could work, or perhaps all hits on sleeping/held creatures could do maximum damage?
Besides, with Fallout 4, The Old Hunters, and Xenoblade X all coming out in the next month or so it's not like I have nothing to do...