@Grum: Aren't shorty saving throw bonuses already maxed out at 18 CON?
I'm under the impression that a single class thief would only get constitution bonuses for hit points and saving throws up to constitution of 16. Just from what I know you have to be a warrior class or dual to/from a warrior class to get higher than 16 constitution bonuses, outside health regeneration which goes for everyone at 20 con. So for that reason I almost always would pick an Elf or a Half Orc for a Thief class, unless dual classing with a Human. Saving throw bonuses somewhat pale in comparison to the stat bonuses/penalties of those two races, and the magic resistance and thaco bonuses the Elves get are more useful than the sling thaco bonus of Halflings.
Since a single class Thief doesn't get big Constitution bonuses like the warrior classes, the Constitution penalty of an Elf for a single class Thief is kind of moot since they wouldn't benefit from an 18 much anyway. Meanwhile the natural 19 Strength of a Half Orc is such a huge upgrade from a base 18 Strength for a Thief that they'll do so much damage with melee attacks and backstabbing, or throwing weapons/slings. The Constitution bonus does little early on, but can later get your character health regeneration, and the Intelligence penalty is another moot penalty for a single class Thief. The Strength penalty of Halflings ensures they can't get higher than base 18 Strength though with a tome. For a Bounty Hunter and someone not focusing as much on backstabbing it probably doesn't matter much, but considering the stat penalties Halflings have that makes being a Thief or Fighter/Thief the only effective options they have with their available classes.
Elves do better with ranged weapons plus some resistance to annoying spells and Half Orcs do much better with backstabbing and damage bonuses plus health regeneration later. All Halflings get is +1 to hit with Slings and a few saving throw bonuses, since by a certain level with Thieves your skills even out more and even Half Orcs get a few Thief skill bonuses at the start. I'd go Elf or Half Orc personally, unless roleplaying suits your style with a Halfling. Half Orcs cus of their super Strength are better using Slings than Halflings are, though with a Bounty Hunter trap setting character I assume you're more focused on going super scout and trap setting mode instead of dishing out damage with physical attacks as much so it's whatever you feel most comfortable with. Between Halfling and Elf I'd go Elf, but I'd consider Half Orc too.
I'm under the impression that a single class thief would only get constitution bonuses for hit points and saving throws up to constitution of 16. Just from what I know you have to be a warrior class or dual to/from a warrior class to get higher than 16 constitution bonuses, outside health regeneration which goes for everyone at 20 con.
The saves bonuses do apply for 18 CON non-warriors. A level 1 Dwarven Thief with 18 CON has saves of 8/9/12/16/10, while a 16 CON level 1 Thief gets 9/10/12/16/11. So it's only HPs you miss out on. By late BG1 a Dwarven Thief with 20 CON, the Claw of Kazgaroth, and optimal gear (Cloak of Displacement, Amulet of Spell Warding, Ring of Protection +2) will have a save vs spell of -3 (11-5-3-2-2-2). They'll save against pretty much any spell cast at them and only need the Greenstone Amulet or potions for stuff like Confusion or Chaos. Dwarves can take up few professions, but for those professions they can exercise, they're the master race.
Edit: Cloak of Displacement gives no bonus to saves vs spells, so Cloak of Balduran would be better. This means that the Dwarven Thief will end up with a save vs spell of -2, not -3. Still very solid of course.
Thanks for the comments @thelovebat . In the end I went with dwarf, so not my two original suggestions which started this thread. The ability to reach 19 strength, the 20 constitution, the +5 shorty save bonuses, and the dwarven racial skill bonuses have convinced me that dwarves have an edge over the Halfling and Elf 19 dexterity bonuses. At first I did miss the skill points for the 19 dexterity over 17, but now 1/2 way through the first game I am no longer missing those early skill points and value the strength bonus more plus I get the shorty saves.
Elves and 1/2 Orcs receive the 19 or even 20 strength during BG1, but for me the shorty saves carry more weight than the +1 to bows/swords of the Elf (and the Dwarf racial bonuses partially cancel out the dexterity thief skill bonuses for the Elf), plus I find the 1/2 Orcs weak on thief skills versus the shorty or even elf racial bonuses.
I did play a halfling bounty hunter earlier this year but stopped at the end of BG1. I enjoyed that run. He was mainly ranged (dexterity 19) and had great thief skills end game. That being said, I did miss the 19 strength. His backstabs seemed underwhelming and I use backstab liberally with all of my thieves.
My Dwarven Bounty Hunter is having a great run. I have completed everything through the return to the Ducal Palace (to get the SSoB +3) and am in the midst of going through Durlag's Tower before heading to the end game (I cannot pass up going all the way through Durlag's with a Dwarven thief, it is just blasphemy not to ).
Now for some analysis of the Halfling versus the Dwarven thief. The better dexterity of the Halfling has frankly not been missed except in the early game (levels 1-3), and is more than compensated by the 19 strength, the better racial bonuses spread, and some items enhancing dexterity and thief skills. His backstabs are now outstanding damage-wise (I crit'ed the Succabus in Durlag's for something like 150+) versus the Halfling backstabs. Imoen has been more than capable as my locks-woman. I now have with items 100 in both stealth skills, 90 set traps, 80 find traps, and 25 detect illusions (for SCS mages and also prepping for BG2). For traps in Durlag's I can raise my find traps to 95% using items and Imoen has 100 clean, so am progressing fine. Potions are there as back-up also. Frankly, the Dwarven 19 strength after the tome versus the Halfling 18 strength after the tome for a back-stabbing thief in BG1 is no contest - Dwarf wins.
I am running a 4-man party of Charname, Viconia, Kagain, and Imoen as a M/T. It is indeed a relentless and somewhat amoral company of mercenaries my Bounty Hunter has assembled, together with his childhood friend as a tagalong but also a blossoming adventurer now in her own right. My Dwarf is fun to roleplay as this calculating and professional 'get the job done no matter what' thief. Imoen tries to nudge him away from some of the darker suggestions of the others. I would say alignment-wise he is still neutral, but with evil tendencies. Those who surrender are never spared, no matter how much they beg.
My play time is down the last couple of weeks from travel commitments but I should be able to wrap-up BG1 by the end of next week and then on to BG2EE for the first time!
@Dragonspear, I can see one of the varieties of lawful fitting a Dwarven bounty hunter quite well, especially lawful neutral.
I almost went with lawful neutral with my Dwarf, but struggled with the whole law-breaking aspect (I see him as a clever specialized professional thief first and foremost) and also his ruthless focus on getting things done at any cost. I went true neutral as a compromise. He is not so interested in good/evil or even law/chaos, but on choosing whichever tactic/decision gets him closer to his goal/mission/bounty.
In my testing of this, shorty saving throw bonuses appear to be calculated using your base CON, before adjusting for equipment. Therefore a CON 18 shorty can wear the Claw of Kazgaroth (thus reducing to CON 16) and still get the maximum +5 shorty bonus (as if s/he were still CON 18). Even when saves are re-calculated at level-up, s/he still has the maximum shorty bonus (which is what proves that the calculation is using base CON rather than adjusted CON).
This has various build implications, one of which is that it weakens the case for Dwarf Thieves.
In my testing of this, shorty saving throw bonuses appear to be calculated using your base CON, before adjusting for equipment. Therefore a CON 18 shorty can wear the Claw of Kazgaroth (thus reducing to CON 16) and still get the maximum +5 shorty bonus (as if s/he were still CON 18). Even when saves are re-calculated at level-up, s/he still has the maximum shorty bonus (which is what proves that the calculation is using base CON rather than adjusted CON).
This has various build implications, one of which is that it weakens the case for Dwarf Thieves.
I'm probably being really dense here, but I don't understand your conclusion...
As far as I follow, your testing means that a shorty with Con of 18 or 19 can wear the Claw without any drawback besides the penalty to death saves. (and, of course, Dwarves bonuses will even counter this)
You might have supposed that only a Dwarf (with his extra CON) could wear the Claw without nerfing his shorty bonuses. But actually no, it appears that the Claw doesn't affect shorty bonuses, so any shorty race can get the full benefit of it, not just Dwarves.
Therefore this weakens the case for Dwarf Thieves, because it removes what might have seemed to be a significant advantage over a Gnome or Halfling. And therefore, since Dwarves have a DEX penalty (which other races don't), a Dwarf is usually not the most mechanically-advantageous race for any class.
However, of course I agree that whatever you choose for role-playing reasons outweighs any consideration of slight mechanical advantage.
You might have supposed that only a Dwarf (with his extra CON) could wear the Claw without nerfing his shorty bonuses. But actually no, it appears that the Claw doesn't affect shorty bonuses, so any shorty race can get the full benefit of it, not just Dwarves.
Therefore this weakens the case for Dwarf Thieves, because it removes what might have seemed to be a significant advantage over a Gnome or Halfling. And therefore, since Dwarves have a DEX penalty (which other races don't), a Dwarf is usually not the most mechanically-advantageous race for any class.
However, of course I agree that whatever you choose for role-playing reasons outweighs any consideration of slight mechanical advantage.
Ah... with you now. Thanks for clarifying.
Although Gnomes don't get the vs.Death bonus, so the Claw's -4 penalty is exaggerated in comparison to the other stunted ones.
Between the dwarf and the halfling, a halfling got +70 thieving skill point over dwarf, making a dwarf lvl 3 nearly equal to the halfling. Apart fron that, the -1dex is not so bad: early on halfling gof +1ACand +1 ranged thac0 over dwarf, but when you get the dex tome it is a matter of +1 ranged Thac0 to halfling. If you are only going through bg1ee the halfling can be more interesting, because he is simple better at doing more thieving. Early on the difference between 17 & 18 str is 1DMG, not multiplied by backstab multiplier. But when you get the STR tome, the difference is more significant: a dwarf will have +2 to hit and +5 dmg compared to halfling. Dmg is the minor bonus, since it is still not multiplied by backstab multiplier.
But @Cactus, if you're playing a Thief in a role for which STR is frequently important (e.g. you're focussing on back-stabbing a lot), then it's worth considering a half-Orc instead, to get the major STR bonus right from the start and (even more significantly) avoid the DEX penalty of a Dwarf. Half-Orcs don't get so much racial bonus to thieving skills as a Dwarf (-40 skill points), but get most of this loss back by avoiding the DEX penalty (+30 skill points), and in the Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills (which are presumably what matter most for a Thief whose specialty is back-stabbing) a half-Orc will actually start with more skill than a Dwarf (because their racial bonuses are equal in those particular skills, and the half-Orc has better DEX). Of course, the cost of these advantages is that the half-Orc doesn't get shorty bonuses, but I reckon the trade-off still favours the half-Orc for that sort of Thief.
Furthermore, we haven't looked at the Gnome yet. Same STR as a Dwarf, same total of racial Thief skill bonuses as a Dwarf (and with more of the bonus in Stealth skills than either Dwarf or half-Orc), yet with no DEX penalty, and still with (most of) the shorty saving bonuses. So when STR matters to a Thief, a Gnome is almost always better than a Dwarf, and perhaps better even than a half-Orc (because of save bonuses).
And of course, if you're not playing the style of Thief for whom high STR is a big deal, then other races have advantages, and we'd have to look at other calculations ... but suffice it to say that for any Thief style, a Gnome can almost always do it better than a Dwarf, and for some styles another race might do it even better than a Gnome.
As I said before, a role-playing preference outweighs any consideration of slight mechanical advantage, but a Dwarf is generally not the mechanically-advantageous choice. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone - it's pretty natural that a race with a DEX restriction isn't ideal for a Thief!
One thing I do like about the Dwarf is that their thieving bonuses are concentrated in the skills that I find most critical, i.e. Open Locks, Find Traps, and Set Traps. Even taking the Dex penalty into account, the Dwarf is the equal of the Gnome in those skills and superior to the Halfling. In my eyes, this makes the Dwarf a competitive choice for Thieves who aren't going to worry about hiding.
Also, just because a Thief isn't backstabbing doesn't mean STR isn't a big deal. Being able to hit 19 STR with one tome makes a world of difference when you consider the damage a 19 STR Thief can put out with throwing daggers compared to short bows or crossbows.
As a final note I'm pretty sure dwarfs should get an AC bonus for their godly beards, but it doesn't happen in game. Must be a bug.
On a more serious note: in solo playthroughs dwarfs can get 20 Con, which gives regeneration. That allows full heals on rest and travel, which is very useful. That is a big plus when you don't take other NPCs into account.
One thing I do like about the Dwarf is that their thieving bonuses are concentrated in the skills that I find most critical, i.e. Open Locks, Find Traps, and Set Traps. Even taking the Dex penalty into account, the Dwarf is the equal of the Gnome in those skills and superior to the Halfling.
Not true. The Halfling is simply a superior theif. as you said, you have to take both racial + dex bonus into account, gnomes are only superior in Detect Illusion, all races are equal in Find Traps and Set Traps, Halfling is superior in everything else. These are the actual stating stats (I simply created one of each, maxed dex, and looked at the ingame stats):
Halfling may not have as much STR, but they can backstab sooner than other races: as soon as you get Worn Wisper, you can actually start hiding in shadows without assigning any points into it (unstable, yes, but possible). I agree that loosing STR is bad, but STR can be alteret by Rasaads Belt, DUHM, Girdle of Hill Giant STR, the mage spell Strength (have your mage cast it at you), and Potion of Hill Giant Strength. If continuing into BG2:EE, I would agree dwarf is a bit better, since you got so many thieving lvls that the starting bonus dosn't matter anymore. Gnome is skillwise middleground, but looses save vs death.
BTW I am doing this guide on multiclassed shorty thieves. The part about thieving skills, backstab and ranged attacks explain the difference between the short races (useful for single class thieves as well):
But @Cactus, if you're playing a Thief in a role for which STR is frequently important (e.g. you're focussing on back-stabbing a lot), then it's worth considering a half-Orc instead, to get the major STR bonus right from the start and (even more significantly) avoid the DEX penalty of a Dwarf. Half-Orcs don't get so much racial bonus to thieving skills as a Dwarf (-40 skill points), but get most of this loss back by avoiding the DEX penalty (+30 skill points), and in the Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills (which are presumably what matter most for a Thief whose specialty is back-stabbing) a half-Orc will actually start with more skill than a Dwarf (because their racial bonuses are equal in those particular skills, and the half-Orc has better DEX). Of course, the cost of these advantages is that the half-Orc doesn't get shorty bonuses, but I reckon the trade-off still favours the half-Orc for that sort of Thief.
Agree, but I personally like the shorty saves a lot
That's my bad, I guess I screwed up my mental math somewhere. That said, STR is not trivially surmounted in BGEE, where you only have one pair of STR gauntlets, one STR belt (and only if you take Rasaad), limited spell slots, and practically every NPC has less than ideal STR. Even in SoA, you're liable to have multiple party members who can benefit from STR-boosting items (about half of which are found late in/post Underdark). Taking advantage of the Bhaalspawn's potential to import with 19 STR and thus have one fewer person who needs a STR-boosting item improves the whole party.
@Kaigen The tome of STR is kind of late bgee, so the majority of the game it is a difference between 17 or 18 STR = only +1DMG not calculated by backstab multiplier. I tried both: Halfling becomes much more useful early on. Dwarf has an advantage later.
Using worn whispers any thief with high dexterity can backstab effectively if you try a few times to hide and you're hiding while standing in a shadow.
I, preferring a no-reload game, would take shorty and additional bonuses to saving throws instead of 19 STR in each situation. This leaves me with a halfling, a gnome and a dwarf.
Gnomes don't get additional bonuses to Death, so this is why they're a bit behind.
Halflings start with 17 STR max, this is why they can't reach permanent 19 STR in BG1.
Dwarves, on the other hand, don't get those penalties: they still get additional bonuses to Death and they still can start with 18 STR (and, in case of F/T, 18/00 which is almost as good as 19 STR).
I don't usually reload much, but strict no-reload is a frustrating game which I suspect appeals only to a minority of very dedicated players seeking a very tough challenge, although I take my hat off to those who can regularly complete a full run under a no-reload rule.
In strict no-reload, I can understand that a particularly cautious approach is obviously vital for success. If you were also soloing, then yes, shorty saves would be an extremely valuable bonus, perhaps even the most important factor of all. But if you're playing with a party, then I'd imagine that your Thief wouldn't normally be the one most in the line of fire, and therefore I'd have thought that save bonuses wouldn't be quite such an over-riding consideration for the Thief.
However, since I've never tried strict no-reload, I'm therefore speculating without the advantage of experience, so maybe shorty saves are even more critical than I realise for a no-reload game.
Nevertheless, I'm sure that strict no-reload is very much a minority discipline, so special considerations for no-reload play don't much change the generally-applicable arguments about how best to build a character. But yes, perhaps some caveats about "except for no-reload games" would be appropriate.
A quick update on my Dwarven Bounty Hunter. After playing BG1:EE for the last 2 years - mainly shorty thieves or fighter/thieves + one Elven stalker - I have finally taken my first charname into BG2EE. I played old BG2 back in the day, but this is my first BG2 run in over 10 years (wow, how time flies!). I have forgotten almost everything, so it is truly like a brand new game with that new game excitement!
He is currently proficient in daggers, SWS, crossbows and quarterstaffs and I will add scimitars at level 12 followed by TWFx3 (I use the RR mod which allows thieves to place 3 pips in TWF). I could also take THS at level 16 instead of TWF, but not sure. I did end up backstabbing with the Staff of Striking in late BGEE and splatted both end bosses which was gratifying. In BG2 I want to go back to my blades.
The Dwarven 19 strength after the BGEE tomb is paying dividends, with better to hit and damage scores, plus the saving throws are great of course. I do not notice the skill point difference at this point in the game versus Halflings.
One thing that is new is this sling damage. Montaron and Yeslick both kick butt with slings in BGEE, but man, these Druegar in the opening dungeon are much more devastating with slings than crossbows (not sure if this is SCS only). I have developed a healthy respect for my Grey Dwarven brethren's sling-usage after getting hammered by these guys a few times and being forced to retreat. I never thought I would find myself fleeing a sling onslaught...
BTW I am doing this guide on multiclassed shorty thieves. The part about thieving skills, backstab and ranged attacks explain the difference between the short races (useful for single class thieves as well):
But @Cactus, if you're playing a Thief in a role for which STR is frequently important (e.g. you're focussing on back-stabbing a lot), then it's worth considering a half-Orc instead, to get the major STR bonus right from the start and (even more significantly) avoid the DEX penalty of a Dwarf. Half-Orcs don't get so much racial bonus to thieving skills as a Dwarf (-40 skill points), but get most of this loss back by avoiding the DEX penalty (+30 skill points), and in the Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills (which are presumably what matter most for a Thief whose specialty is back-stabbing) a half-Orc will actually start with more skill than a Dwarf (because their racial bonuses are equal in those particular skills, and the half-Orc has better DEX). Of course, the cost of these advantages is that the half-Orc doesn't get shorty bonuses, but I reckon the trade-off still favours the half-Orc for that sort of Thief.
Agree, but I personally like the shorty saves a lot
Wow, thank you for writing such a great guide! Just out of curiosity, around when in the game does low THAC0 make, say, a mage/thief or vanilla thief unable to hit anything? I'm considering a thief for my third run through BG, but I've never backstabbed before. A halfling vanilla thief with daggers and darts is what I want to play, but if the dude poops out on me before Sarevok, I'll have to multiclass.
@marcellus I am not very experienced in pure classed theives. But even the mage/thief with 18 STR can backstab (even though you follow the thief THAC0 progression, and are a few lvls behind a pure classed thief), you just need to be very selective about targets and still expect to fail on regular basis. Choose mainly mages and the like for targets, some with very low AC and HP. I found it is mainly a problem to hit very early on in BG:EE, but you can't really hide in Shadows effectively anyway. In BG2:EE I think you get a problem hitting again (but it is a while since I played BG2EE).
Using daggers are fun from a RP perspective, just note that they give significant less damage than any other weapon type. If you backstab with a dagger, make sure to use Dagger of Venom on target mages: Even if they do not die from one hit (due to the low DMG from daggers), the poison effect prevents them from casting spells.
Note that choosing a halfling you are the least likely race to hit with backstab due to the inability to get a base 19 STR. But they are still fun, just more RP than powergaming I personally really like the halfling fighter/thief, backstabbing is much better than a pure thief (fighter THAC0, can hit enemies in both early and late game), and acces to STR increasing potions only useable by fighters helps a lot. Since the halfling has so much bonus to thieving skills due to race and DEX, you won't really miss not being a pure theif in BG1EE. So unless you want a kit, I would go for this multiclass.
Comments
Since a single class Thief doesn't get big Constitution bonuses like the warrior classes, the Constitution penalty of an Elf for a single class Thief is kind of moot since they wouldn't benefit from an 18 much anyway. Meanwhile the natural 19 Strength of a Half Orc is such a huge upgrade from a base 18 Strength for a Thief that they'll do so much damage with melee attacks and backstabbing, or throwing weapons/slings. The Constitution bonus does little early on, but can later get your character health regeneration, and the Intelligence penalty is another moot penalty for a single class Thief. The Strength penalty of Halflings ensures they can't get higher than base 18 Strength though with a tome. For a Bounty Hunter and someone not focusing as much on backstabbing it probably doesn't matter much, but considering the stat penalties Halflings have that makes being a Thief or Fighter/Thief the only effective options they have with their available classes.
Elves do better with ranged weapons plus some resistance to annoying spells and Half Orcs do much better with backstabbing and damage bonuses plus health regeneration later. All Halflings get is +1 to hit with Slings and a few saving throw bonuses, since by a certain level with Thieves your skills even out more and even Half Orcs get a few Thief skill bonuses at the start. I'd go Elf or Half Orc personally, unless roleplaying suits your style with a Halfling. Half Orcs cus of their super Strength are better using Slings than Halflings are, though with a Bounty Hunter trap setting character I assume you're more focused on going super scout and trap setting mode instead of dishing out damage with physical attacks as much so it's whatever you feel most comfortable with. Between Halfling and Elf I'd go Elf, but I'd consider Half Orc too.
So it's only HPs you miss out on. By late BG1 a Dwarven Thief with 20 CON, the Claw of Kazgaroth, and optimal gear (Cloak of Displacement, Amulet of Spell Warding, Ring of Protection +2) will have a save vs spell of -3 (11-5-3-2-2-2). They'll save against pretty much any spell cast at them and only need the Greenstone Amulet or potions for stuff like Confusion or Chaos.
Dwarves can take up few professions, but for those professions they can exercise, they're the master race.
Edit: Cloak of Displacement gives no bonus to saves vs spells, so Cloak of Balduran would be better. This means that the Dwarven Thief will end up with a save vs spell of -2, not -3. Still very solid of course.
Elves and 1/2 Orcs receive the 19 or even 20 strength during BG1, but for me the shorty saves carry more weight than the +1 to bows/swords of the Elf (and the Dwarf racial bonuses partially cancel out the dexterity thief skill bonuses for the Elf), plus I find the 1/2 Orcs weak on thief skills versus the shorty or even elf racial bonuses.
I did play a halfling bounty hunter earlier this year but stopped at the end of BG1. I enjoyed that run. He was mainly ranged (dexterity 19) and had great thief skills end game. That being said, I did miss the 19 strength. His backstabs seemed underwhelming and I use backstab liberally with all of my thieves.
Now for some analysis of the Halfling versus the Dwarven thief. The better dexterity of the Halfling has frankly not been missed except in the early game (levels 1-3), and is more than compensated by the 19 strength, the better racial bonuses spread, and some items enhancing dexterity and thief skills. His backstabs are now outstanding damage-wise (I crit'ed the Succabus in Durlag's for something like 150+) versus the Halfling backstabs. Imoen has been more than capable as my locks-woman. I now have with items 100 in both stealth skills, 90 set traps, 80 find traps, and 25 detect illusions (for SCS mages and also prepping for BG2). For traps in Durlag's I can raise my find traps to 95% using items and Imoen has 100 clean, so am progressing fine. Potions are there as back-up also. Frankly, the Dwarven 19 strength after the tome versus the Halfling 18 strength after the tome for a back-stabbing thief in BG1 is no contest - Dwarf wins.
I am running a 4-man party of Charname, Viconia, Kagain, and Imoen as a M/T. It is indeed a relentless and somewhat amoral company of mercenaries my Bounty Hunter has assembled, together with his childhood friend as a tagalong but also a blossoming adventurer now in her own right. My Dwarf is fun to roleplay as this calculating and professional 'get the job done no matter what' thief. Imoen tries to nudge him away from some of the darker suggestions of the others. I would say alignment-wise he is still neutral, but with evil tendencies. Those who surrender are never spared, no matter how much they beg.
My play time is down the last couple of weeks from travel commitments but I should be able to wrap-up BG1 by the end of next week and then on to BG2EE for the first time!
I plan on adding a dwarven bounty hunter to my list of characters. It'll prolly end up lawful neutral
I almost went with lawful neutral with my Dwarf, but struggled with the whole law-breaking aspect (I see him as a clever specialized professional thief first and foremost) and also his ruthless focus on getting things done at any cost. I went true neutral as a compromise. He is not so interested in good/evil or even law/chaos, but on choosing whichever tactic/decision gets him closer to his goal/mission/bounty.
This has various build implications, one of which is that it weakens the case for Dwarf Thieves.
As far as I follow, your testing means that a shorty with Con of 18 or 19 can wear the Claw without any drawback besides the penalty to death saves. (and, of course, Dwarves bonuses will even counter this)
What am I missing?
Therefore this weakens the case for Dwarf Thieves, because it removes what might have seemed to be a significant advantage over a Gnome or Halfling. And therefore, since Dwarves have a DEX penalty (which other races don't), a Dwarf is usually not the most mechanically-advantageous race for any class.
However, of course I agree that whatever you choose for role-playing reasons outweighs any consideration of slight mechanical advantage.
Although Gnomes don't get the vs.Death bonus, so the Claw's -4 penalty is exaggerated in comparison to the other stunted ones.
Furthermore, we haven't looked at the Gnome yet. Same STR as a Dwarf, same total of racial Thief skill bonuses as a Dwarf (and with more of the bonus in Stealth skills than either Dwarf or half-Orc), yet with no DEX penalty, and still with (most of) the shorty saving bonuses. So when STR matters to a Thief, a Gnome is almost always better than a Dwarf, and perhaps better even than a half-Orc (because of save bonuses).
And of course, if you're not playing the style of Thief for whom high STR is a big deal, then other races have advantages, and we'd have to look at other calculations ... but suffice it to say that for any Thief style, a Gnome can almost always do it better than a Dwarf, and for some styles another race might do it even better than a Gnome.
As I said before, a role-playing preference outweighs any consideration of slight mechanical advantage, but a Dwarf is generally not the mechanically-advantageous choice. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone - it's pretty natural that a race with a DEX restriction isn't ideal for a Thief!
Also, just because a Thief isn't backstabbing doesn't mean STR isn't a big deal. Being able to hit 19 STR with one tome makes a world of difference when you consider the damage a 19 STR Thief can put out with throwing daggers compared to short bows or crossbows.
On a more serious note: in solo playthroughs dwarfs can get 20 Con, which gives regeneration. That allows full heals on rest and travel, which is very useful. That is a big plus when you don't take other NPCs into account.
Halfling
Open Locks: 35, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 35, Move Silently: 35, HiS: 35, Detect Illusion: 0 Set Traps: 10
Gnome
Open Locks: 30, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 25, Move Silently: 25, HiS: 20, Detect Illusion: 10 Set Traps: 10
Dwarf
Open Locks: 30, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 20, Move Silently: 15, HiS: 10, Detect Illusion: 5 Set Traps: 10
Halfling may not have as much STR, but they can backstab sooner than other races: as soon as you get Worn Wisper, you can actually start hiding in shadows without assigning any points into it (unstable, yes, but possible). I agree that loosing STR is bad, but STR can be alteret by Rasaads Belt, DUHM, Girdle of Hill Giant STR, the mage spell Strength (have your mage cast it at you), and Potion of Hill Giant Strength. If continuing into BG2:EE, I would agree dwarf is a bit better, since you got so many thieving lvls that the starting bonus dosn't matter anymore. Gnome is skillwise middleground, but looses save vs death.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/44551/multiclassed-shorty-thief-guide#latest Agree, but I personally like the shorty saves a lot
Comparison, thieving skills:
Elf
Open Locks: 25, Find Traps: 15, Pick Pocket: 35, Move Silently: 30, HiS: 30, Detect Illusion: 0, Set Traps: 10
Half-Orc
Open Locks: 25, Find Traps: 10, Pick Pocket: 25, Move Silently: 20, HiS: 15, Detect Illusion: 0, Set Traps: 5
I tried both: Halfling becomes much more useful early on. Dwarf has an advantage later.
Gnomes don't get additional bonuses to Death, so this is why they're a bit behind.
Halflings start with 17 STR max, this is why they can't reach permanent 19 STR in BG1.
Dwarves, on the other hand, don't get those penalties: they still get additional bonuses to Death and they still can start with 18 STR (and, in case of F/T, 18/00 which is almost as good as 19 STR).
I don't usually reload much, but strict no-reload is a frustrating game which I suspect appeals only to a minority of very dedicated players seeking a very tough challenge, although I take my hat off to those who can regularly complete a full run under a no-reload rule.
In strict no-reload, I can understand that a particularly cautious approach is obviously vital for success. If you were also soloing, then yes, shorty saves would be an extremely valuable bonus, perhaps even the most important factor of all. But if you're playing with a party, then I'd imagine that your Thief wouldn't normally be the one most in the line of fire, and therefore I'd have thought that save bonuses wouldn't be quite such an over-riding consideration for the Thief.
However, since I've never tried strict no-reload, I'm therefore speculating without the advantage of experience, so maybe shorty saves are even more critical than I realise for a no-reload game.
Nevertheless, I'm sure that strict no-reload is very much a minority discipline, so special considerations for no-reload play don't much change the generally-applicable arguments about how best to build a character. But yes, perhaps some caveats about "except for no-reload games" would be appropriate.
He is currently proficient in daggers, SWS, crossbows and quarterstaffs and I will add scimitars at level 12 followed by TWFx3 (I use the RR mod which allows thieves to place 3 pips in TWF). I could also take THS at level 16 instead of TWF, but not sure. I did end up backstabbing with the Staff of Striking in late BGEE and splatted both end bosses which was gratifying. In BG2 I want to go back to my blades.
The Dwarven 19 strength after the BGEE tomb is paying dividends, with better to hit and damage scores, plus the saving throws are great of course. I do not notice the skill point difference at this point in the game versus Halflings.
One thing that is new is this sling damage. Montaron and Yeslick both kick butt with slings in BGEE, but man, these Druegar in the opening dungeon are much more devastating with slings than crossbows (not sure if this is SCS only). I have developed a healthy respect for my Grey Dwarven brethren's sling-usage after getting hammered by these guys a few times and being forced to retreat. I never thought I would find myself fleeing a sling onslaught...
Using daggers are fun from a RP perspective, just note that they give significant less damage than any other weapon type. If you backstab with a dagger, make sure to use Dagger of Venom on target mages: Even if they do not die from one hit (due to the low DMG from daggers), the poison effect prevents them from casting spells.
Note that choosing a halfling you are the least likely race to hit with backstab due to the inability to get a base 19 STR. But they are still fun, just more RP than powergaming