Best race for bounty hunter elf or halfling?
Aerakar
Member Posts: 1,026
It seems it is a toss-up between halfling (best overall skill bonuses, high dex, shorty saving throws) and elf (decent skill bonuses, bonus with bows/swords, charm resistance, high dex, no strength penalty so 19 possible in BG:EE). I wish dwarf was a contender, but that 17 dex is a killer on the stats and results in lower AC and lower ranged THAC0 (they seem outstanding F/Ts though).
Long-term and assuming a trilogy run, does the potential for 19 strength midway through the first game without belts and the always useful +1 with bows/swords trump the potential +5 saving throw bonuses of the halfling?
Long-term and assuming a trilogy run, does the potential for 19 strength midway through the first game without belts and the always useful +1 with bows/swords trump the potential +5 saving throw bonuses of the halfling?
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(1) Dwarven thief bonus skills make up for the lack of dex
(2) 20 Con means natural regeneration and extra bonuses on your saving throws
(3) Can get 19 str in BGEE
(4) Thematically, a dwarf who sets mechanical traps is just cool.
With that said, I'd go for the elf. Because getting 20Dex in BGEE with a bow is just killer. Especially as you won't have enough thief skills to go around when making your set traps useful. The +1 with bows will help offset being a thief.
You now have to look at their other benefits to see which is more desirable for your play style.
If you are doing a trilogy run, you'll have more than enough skills to cover everything, and having a second thief around if you want to min max is always an option, so thieving skills (and those bonuses) should be a wash.
So you are left with
Elves: +1 thaco with bows, short swords and long swords, +1 Dex, -1 Con
Gnomes: +2 Saves for Spells and Rod/Staff/Wand (+Con bonus), +1 Int, -1 Wis
Dwarves: +2 Saves for Spells, R/S/W and Par/Poison/Death (+Con bonus), +1 Con, -2 CHR, -1 Dex
Halflings: +2 Saves for Spells, R/S/W and P/P/D (+Con bonus), +1 Thaco /w slings, +1Dex, -1 Wis, -1 Str
STR bonus is added to Throwing Daggers as well as Slings. So having a dagger chucking Gnome or Dwarf can possibly out DPS a Halfling with a sling even with their +1 Thaco.
A 17 to 18 Dex is -1 AC, however missile adjustment does not change.
A 18 to 19 Dex gives a +1 to missile adjustment but doesn't change the AC
19 to 20 Dex there is no change is either AC or Missile adjustment.
What this means is, with the Dex Tome, A gnome can get the same thaco with other throwing weapons on par with Halfling (as going 19 to 20 does nothing albeit, in BG2 Dex can be raised higher but by that time Equipment is more important than stats) but can out damage them with throwing daggers and high strength.
Want better saves: Dwaves
Want better DPS: Gnomes
Want better early thieving skills and sling thaco: Halflings
Want to Melee: Elves
My recommendation: Gnome
(1) +1 Str, +1 Con, -2 Int. Can get +20 Str as well as reach +20 Con for self-regeneration in BG:EE.
(2) Being green is awesome.
(3) Able to open beer cans with their tusks.
(4) Nothing say 'stealth' better than a huge body.
(5) Because the mental image of orcs backstabbing with clubs is genius!
(6) Noteworthy: They also enjoy Infravision in IWD:EE, BGII:EE, and soon BG:EE as well.
As for me, I would focus on the question of @Aerakar in the OP: "Long-term and assuming a trilogy run, does the potential for 19 strength midway through the first game without belts and the always useful +1 with bows/swords trump the potential +5 saving throw bonuses of the halfling?"
I'm sure that it depends on how you play. If it's a no-reload game, I would take saving throws any day of the week. Nothing can be better than reaching the negative saving throws as fast as possible.
Also, take a note that you're playing as a bounty hunter. To me, this kit is more about traps than backstabs. If so, than not the highest possible starting STR is not a problem. I would focus on setting traps and luring enemies into them so that "BAM! All dead".
I'm usually playing with 75-abilitities characters and have got used to not having a maximum STR. In BG2, you need only money to get 19 STR not long after the start while in BG1 a character is usually more than capable through the part before reaching the Baldur's Gate city.
So, personally, I would focus on shorties for a bounty hunter. A halfling, a gnome and a dwarf. Choose the one you like more from the RP point of view.
+5 "Shorty" Saving Throws start at CON 18, not 19, but take a note that the Claw of Kazgaroth is a very useful item in a solo game, but it lowers your CON, so a dwarf here would be better if you plan to use this item (starting with 19, getting a tome then lowering your con with the Claw you still get 18 CON in the end).
Dwarves and Halflings bonus saving throws vs. Death/Spells/Wands while Gnomes only get them vs. Spells and Wands.
Don't forget the Buckley's Buckler. Which particular bonuses you get is determined at each level up, so you can simply put on this shield before cliking to level up - this way additional +1 CON will help in determining bonuses.
As you've probably guessed, I would choose a Dwarf. His -1 penalty to DEX is neglectable because you can find a tome of DEX, and there's not a big difference between having 18 and 19 DEX in the end.
In the early game they're slightly less effective in combat than Halflings with Darts (Stunning, sold in Ulgoth's Beard and by the fence at Durlag's Tower, and Wounding are just great) or Elves with bows or with swords for backstabs. But that disadvantage diminishes soon enough.
Between Elf and Halfling the latter race with their saves bonuses is the most resilient and thus easier for a no-reloader, while efficient item use and aura management are requisites for successfully playing an Elven Bounty Hunter. If that appeals to you you'll be rewarded with a better backstabber and general combatant than the Halfling. If reloading is not an issue then it doesn't matter much beyond the early game which class you pick.
Not sure about crossbow though @abacus, as I have been leaning lately towards short bow with my thieves for no other reason than the acid/poison/dispelling/detonation ammunition assortment (adding returning throwing daggers into the mix later in BG:EE2 for the strength bonus as @Kaigen mentioned), although those bolts of lightning are outstanding and the bolts of biting do seem better than the arrow version, and there is the RP factor (crossbows are definitely cooler than short bows IMHO, esp. on a Dwarven roguish character).
I have now completed BG:EE with a Halfling bounty hunter focused on short bows/short swords and a Halfling assassin using darts/bucklers (thanks @Blackraven for the build advice on that one), but have carried neither into BG2. Both were loads of fun though. I want to take this guy further, but have found I need to have a RP component to maintain interest in the character/run-through. The tough, independent-minded dwarven professional mercenary concept and bounty hunter fits so well together (crossbow also fits the mercenary concept better too). Hmm...
As to roleplaying, I tend to play Halflings as Swashbucklers, Dwarves as Bounty Hunters (same concept as you described above), and Elves as Assassins.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/41730/bonty-hunter-traps-bg-ee-vs-bg2-ee
Here is a discussion where a poster provides a fix for the BH Otiluke's Sphere trap bug at level 1 and level 11 in BG:EE discussed above.
My Dwarf BH is in Cloakwood and about to pick up the Boots of Speed (using short swords, crossbows, daggers). I am so enjoying this guy! I am focusing solely on stealth and set traps, with a little in detect illusions (aiming for 25% at end game BG1). I will expand the other skills in BG2 and use Yoshimo as a 2nd thief during the first 1/2 of the game (I have never taken him so want to see how it plays out).
18 Str and 19 Dex are evidently desirable: 18 Str for optimal melee Thac0, max Dex for ranged Thac0 and thieving bonuses.
You could consider maximizing Con as well, because with 18 Con (17 at character creation plus one from the Lighthosue tome) you'll be able to equip the Claw of Kazgaroth at no HP penalty for massive saves bonuses, +1 AC bonus, and +4 AC against missiles. You will suffer a penalty on your saves vs death, which in BG1 equals saves vs poison. But green scrolls of PfPoison and antidotes and health elixirs allow you to neutralize poison risk/damage.
The other stats aren't as important. Ideally you'd have around 15 Int, 12 Wis and 9-10 Cha at character creation. 15+ mental stats give slight lore bonuses, and 16 Int helps against Mind Flayer intelligence drains in BG2.
For starting weapons I'd recommend Long Swords or Short Swords and Short Bows. The racial bonuses for Elves with those weapons (+1 to Thac0) stack nicely with Assassins' passive attack bonus (+1 to Thac0 and Damage). I'm partial to Long Swords rather than Short Swords because one of BG1's best weapons, Varscona, is a long sword that's available pretty early on in the game. The level 4 proficiency point could go to to single weapon style for the AC bonus and for an increased critical backstab chance. The level 8 proficiency point could go to Short Swords if you intend to use the Short Sword of backstabbing at the end of the game.
I personally always play with the P&P dual-wielding for rogues component from the Song & Silence or Rogue Rebalancing mods. That component allows three pips in Two Weapon Fighting. It would make your Assassin a bit more versatile. If you use it, you might consider investing proficiency points in TWF rather than SWS and Short Swords.
Thieving skills:
Note that the following is written for a solo Assassin or one who acts as the only Thief in a party. Skill points aren't much of an issue in a party with one or more other Thieves.
Taking into account the Dex tome, a 20 Dex Elven Assassin has the following racial/dex skill bonuses:
OL 30
FT 20
PP 40
MS 33
HiS 33
DI 10
ST 15
They get 40 skill points at character creation plus 135 skill points by level 10, so in 175 in total. Of those I'd invest around 75 in MS/HiS for 141 aggregate stealth. Of the remaining 100 skill points I'd invest 50 in FT, and 50 in ST. DI is a great skill in BG2, and deserves investing in with the first level-ups in BG2. OL and PP are nice too, but I wouldn't bother. There are potions for those skills and besides, with 19 Str and the DUHM Bhaalpower you'll be able to bash a lot of locks.
Btw the Rogue Rebalancing mod adds a few items to both BG1 and BG2 that give slight boosts to Dex / thieving skills.
Oh no, now look what you did. I want to roll an Assassin myself... and I'm supposed to limit myself to my role-played Wizard Slayer run.
I am now inspired to do an Elven Assassin run, but only once I finish my Dwarven Bounty Hunter!
Thanks @Aerakar, I'm really tempted myself as well
From both no-reload and fun perspectives Norgath and my Halfling Swashbuckler Isadora were memorable Charnames for me (even though Isadora fell earlier than she should have, seemingly due to an extremely unlikely stealth failure).
I wonder if I could pull off the same with a solo Elven Assassin, i.e. create an awesome persona and be successful. They're definitely harder to play than shorty Bounty Hunters and Swashbucklers, requiring more micro-management as they won't be able to rely on saves until very late, have so few skill points to distribute, and two very specific offensive powers (poison and backstab) that become less reliable as the game advances.
Last but not least, there is the great hooded dwarven thief avatar!