BG2 is blighted by the forced rescue. Even worse, then having to drag her through the Underdark.
Why oh why wasn't there a seperation of Spellhold/Sahaugin City/Underdark?
So the solution is to get her out of SH, talk to Callahan and arrange her safe passage home (as you do for Ginia/Anson) because the idea of dragging her along after Irenicus is absurd considering her endless complaints about feeling weak and scared.
I cannot understand, never have, why the writers made the most annoying NPC so intergral to the plot. Or what they were thinking when they made the character in the first place? Why on earth did they change the initial story that she was killed?
BG2 is blighted by the forced rescue. Even worse, then having to drag her through the Underdark.
Why oh why wasn't there a seperation of Spellhold/Sahaugin City/Underdark?
So the solution is to get her out of SH, talk to Callahan and arrange her safe passage home (as you do for Ginia/Anson) because the idea of dragging her along after Irenicus is absurd considering her endless complaints about feeling weak and scared.
I cannot understand, never have, why the writers made the most annoying NPC so intergral to the plot. Or what they were thinking when they made the character in the first place? Why on earth did they change the initial story that she was killed?
If we ever cross paths, I'm going to Fireball your ass
Why oh why wasn't there a seperation of Spellhold/Sahaugin City/Underdark?
So the solution is to get her out of SH, talk to Callahan and arrange her safe passage home
If at that point of the game is possible to arrange a passage is logical to arrange it for the whole party and don't trust in who has betrayed before, so no Sahaugin City and Underdark. Or just the same plot and a different ship.
I understand that she is heavily plot related, even if is possible to dismiss her from the party right at the beginning of the game and don't take her back in Spellhold. And for who can not stand her having a NPC so related to the plot is a problem. As you HAVE to care for her other way you will never go to Spellhold to rescue her. But is the same problem of the players that don't like her from a game mechanic point of view because they have a 6 people party well optimized with no place for her. The game is designed in a way that the fact that you care for her and want to have her in the party and also that you chose a certain substitute is a given fact. And I think that it is true for most of the completely not spoiled first runs. Without this developers choice this whole discussion would never had been born. And BG2 would have been very different, plot wise.
By the way I just noticed that there is no spoiler warning in the title of the discussion and even if we are not in the new players board we are also not in general discussion that is labeled spoiler warning. I think that if the OP change the title is a good thing, relevant spoilers about the plot are given here.
@gorgonzola Well, we are not so evil to use cloudkill ^^ There is a certain scroll of petrification that she can accidentally use .... (I know I know I hae a crush for statues lately, ahem I mean I have a love for crushed statues ^^). Or let her be advance scout for bottom left of the map in Spellhold reunion spot while the rest of the party is busy preparing a reunion dinner for her ^^.
@Bubbles, I was referring to a side effect of a certain fireball of which you can read a little above... And that "cloudkill" is not evil at all, is just human body physiology, everybody of us, in real life, is "guilty" about that, especially if he has eaten beans the evening before. Read again the post in which I talk of cloudkill and the last line of the previous one, is clear that I never suggested to cloudkill the little sweet "game sister" of us. Bean magic, not arcane one.
Judging from the dialogue responses in the game, I think you're supposed to be able to play that your character *doesn't* care about Imoen, but wants revenge against Irenicus for the imprisonment and torture. You can tell Imoen to get lost if you want to, at all times in the story.
It does force you to care about either Imoen or Irenicus, or both, though. You can't play a totally indifferent character and still finish the game. But I think even the most staunchly neutral character would have a hard time being indifferent to being locked in a cage and tortured by Irenicus for gods know how long in that awful dungeon. It's not believable to me that anyone could not be deeply affected by an experience like that.
Whenever I play BG2 or the EE version, I always feel obligated to have Imoene in my party. I dunno why, for some strange reason (maybe is the storyline?), I can't make myself to drop her.
I can drop Jaheira as I really don't like her personality, Minsc is too noisy (although cute n funny but if you click on him he shouts alot).
Anyone share this Imoene feeling out there?
in my very first run as a sorcerer back in the day ... i didn't know squat about ability optimizing and stuff in general, looking back at it now i would slam my hand into my forhead until i have a concussion, also i didn't play Baldurs gate 1, so i started right away with BG2 having no attachment or backstory to imoen and she just vanished after Home-Irenicus,... i didn't even take her along in the asylum and was like " who are you and why do i care O_O"
nowadays i take her along in BG1 for the convenience to have a quick accessible very good thief right of the bat (still could kill her for her voice thought) , and in BG2 my Main Thief needs are covered by Jan Jansen (hes a fun guy to have around) but since i normally play smaller party's from 3-5 i always have a spot for her.
But I think even the most staunchly neutral character would have a hard time being indifferent to being locked in a cage and tortured by Irenicus for gods know how long in that awful dungeon. It's not believable to me that anyone could not be deeply affected by an experience like that.
I agree, but if you RP that you don't care about Imoen since Irenicus is in prison, in a secret place, even if you want a revenge there is little sense for good or lawful toons to put all the effort you have to put pursuing that revenge. Is more a chaotic evil thing. In real life, if a bed guy have done something very bad to you or your family and have been arrested you don't try to get into the prison, breaking yourself the law, to have revenge. The real reason for chap. 2 is to rescue Imoen, only what happen later give you a real reason for hunting the bad guy. Until you reach Spellhood the whole plot is centred on Imoen, without the metagame knowledge we have Jon is only one of the many bad guys an adventurer meet in his adventuring. And a really powerful one, you have good reasons to be happy with him in jail and yourself don't having to deal with him anymore. He surrendered to the more powerful (as far as you know) cowled wizards, killing some of them, since is more powerful then them as single persons, but surrendering to their number. You don't have any clue that is only a part of his plan.
Well, somedays when I don't wanna care for any reason, I will skip BG2EE and play IWDEE ^^. IWDEE is a straight off hack and slash game ^^ (anything that moves in the game = KILL IT !! ^^)
But I think even the most staunchly neutral character would have a hard time being indifferent to being locked in a cage and tortured by Irenicus for gods know how long in that awful dungeon. It's not believable to me that anyone could not be deeply affected by an experience like that.
Talking about experiments and such ^^ .. when the KGB or the CIA is done with anyone during the Cold Wars, the victim will really be "indiferent" X_X (mental KO so they become lower level than vegetables I guess)
@luskan , LOL. I got the reference instantly, but it took me a second to remember that it was also Irenicus torturing Captain Picard in the episode! (David Warner played the Cardassian torturer.) The perfect geek joke!
Comments
BG2 is blighted by the forced rescue. Even worse, then having to drag her through the Underdark.
Why oh why wasn't there a seperation of Spellhold/Sahaugin City/Underdark?
So the solution is to get her out of SH, talk to Callahan and arrange her safe passage home (as you do for Ginia/Anson) because the idea of dragging her along after Irenicus is absurd considering her endless complaints about feeling weak and scared.
I cannot understand, never have, why the writers made the most annoying NPC so intergral to the plot.
Or what they were thinking when they made the character in the first place?
Why on earth did they change the initial story that she was killed?
Bean magic.
Or just the same plot and a different ship.
I understand that she is heavily plot related, even if is possible to dismiss her from the party right at the beginning of the game and don't take her back in Spellhold. And for who can not stand her having a NPC so related to the plot is a problem. As you HAVE to care for her other way you will never go to Spellhold to rescue her. But is the same problem of the players that don't like her from a game mechanic point of view because they have a 6 people party well optimized with no place for her.
The game is designed in a way that the fact that you care for her and want to have her in the party and also that you chose a certain substitute is a given fact. And I think that it is true for most of the completely not spoiled first runs.
Without this developers choice this whole discussion would never had been born.
And BG2 would have been very different, plot wise.
I think that if the OP change the title is a good thing, relevant spoilers about the plot are given here.
Well, we are not so evil to use cloudkill ^^
There is a certain scroll of petrification that she can accidentally use .... (I know I know I hae a crush for statues lately, ahem I mean I have a love for crushed statues ^^).
Or let her be advance scout for bottom left of the map in Spellhold reunion spot while the rest of the party is busy preparing a reunion dinner for her ^^.
And that "cloudkill" is not evil at all, is just human body physiology, everybody of us, in real life, is "guilty" about that, especially if he has eaten beans the evening before.
Read again the post in which I talk of cloudkill and the last line of the previous one, is clear that I never suggested to cloudkill the little sweet "game sister" of us. Bean magic, not arcane one.
Oh well, eat more eggs it add to the flavor of your bean magic ^^
Keldorn - Lawful-ly Stupid
Anomen - Lawful-ly Arrogant (with HUGE annoying tendencies)
Aerie - Lawful-ly Timid (with sudden chaotic outburst tendencies)
^^
It does force you to care about either Imoen or Irenicus, or both, though. You can't play a totally indifferent character and still finish the game. But I think even the most staunchly neutral character would have a hard time being indifferent to being locked in a cage and tortured by Irenicus for gods know how long in that awful dungeon. It's not believable to me that anyone could not be deeply affected by an experience like that.
nowadays i take her along in BG1 for the convenience to have a quick accessible very good thief right of the bat (still could kill her for her voice thought) , and in BG2 my Main Thief needs are covered by Jan Jansen (hes a fun guy to have around) but since i normally play smaller party's from 3-5 i always have a spot for her.
Is more a chaotic evil thing.
In real life, if a bed guy have done something very bad to you or your family and have been arrested you don't try to get into the prison, breaking yourself the law, to have revenge.
The real reason for chap. 2 is to rescue Imoen, only what happen later give you a real reason for hunting the bad guy. Until you reach Spellhood the whole plot is centred on Imoen, without the metagame knowledge we have Jon is only one of the many bad guys an adventurer meet in his adventuring. And a really powerful one, you have good reasons to be happy with him in jail and yourself don't having to deal with him anymore. He surrendered to the more powerful (as far as you know) cowled wizards, killing some of them, since is more powerful then them as single persons, but surrendering to their number.
You don't have any clue that is only a part of his plan.
IWDEE is a straight off hack and slash game ^^ (anything that moves in the game = KILL IT !! ^^)
Thanks for the day brightener.