I will say this though. If you have the ability to make artistic content ( For you guys it's making video games) you don't have the right to push your views,( political or otherwise ) through that artistic format and then also try and justify it by ridiculing the other side. I think this is where the anger is coming from.
You have the right to say what you want, just make sure you can take the backlash eloquently and not try to silence the ones that don't agree with you.
Sorry but not all opinions are of equal weight, and there is a difference between criticism and outright trolling. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of SOD, and for me, that includes the UI, bugs, and narrative flow, but in the end, I'd expect people to judge SOD as a whole product. When a mob of people who doesn't even own the game starts to flood forums and complain about a relatively minor issue within the context of the game, I certainly question their motives and sincerity.
Those who write silly reviews over that one Minsc line are as relevant as those who complained about Sidney Pontier's skin color in the 1960s.
Two things that are wrong with your final sentence.
1/ You are trying to compare the struggles of Black Americans in the 60's to the political views of 1% of the worlds population?
2/ No comment is "silly" or less than another. All comments are to be considered equally because they have the RIGHT to be said. Do not try to ridicule someone because they do not agree with your view.
If you ever dare to start talking about slavery I would suggest you read a little first. My people where slaved and culled for over 500 years. No mention of a holocaust or a blip in American schools. Don't ever pull the race card.
Have you read any of the hate reviews? This is absolutely what they're complaining about. If you don't like LGBTQ friendly content or generally can't stand that it's no longer 1953, that's fine. But trying to sink a game that people put so much effort into over a few lines of dialogue is despicable.
I left my reviews and hope other people do the same.
Yes, there's a couple of those. Most of them are actually fair because they do mention either the political choices along with the technical issues or even just the technical issues. Overall there's just an overwhelming majority of technical issues being discussed that actually shouldn't be drowned out by positive comments instigated by a political agenda from either party: the devs or the reactionary people commenting on a very narrow view of the game.
Among the written reviews, there are also multiple 0 ratings without written accompaniment. A game has be pretty much broken in order to receive a 0/10...unless that rating is based on hateful politics.
There are 4 user reviews on metacritic. 2 of them are positive. 2 of them are negative. One discusses bugs, the other your SJW stuff. Just calm down. It is too soon to really judge anything. Fallout 4 tanked on metacritic and steam in the beginning too.
The CEO of the company thinks it might be significant enough to harm sales. Fallout 4 is still selling copies like hotcakes today - small games like SoD depend a lot more on early purchases.
Even if it's not going to influence sales one way or the other, I'm frustrated by the principle of the thing. I would never give a game a 0 rating for including something that offended me because I'm not a petulant child. Judging by the insane number of downvotes for positive reviews on Steam, there seem to be hundreds of gamerbros willing to do just that.
Did you forget to read my earlier post that described how most of the negative steam reviews are because of bugs and broken multiplayer? Let me paste that here for you:
Let's look at some of these reviews, shall we? There are currently 12 negative reviews. 10 of these are considered "helpful". 8 of those reviews focuses on bugs and multiplayer not working. A few of them state that there are SJW themes in the game, but state that they are not going to comment on them. 2 reviews are focused only on the so-called LGBTQ content. One is a quote from Amber Scott about the original BG had "lots" of sexism. The second is discussing how it is not natural for someone to immediately state their sexuality after meeting them.
Quote: "It is not natural for a person to just come flat out and tell you their sexuality when you meet them for the first time. This is the mark of poor writing and SJWs trying to "represent" a minority that they themselves don't even understand, which by itself is pretentious and shallow as..."
This can easily be seen as a criticism of the writing rather than a criticism of LGBTQ themes.
Next time, do your research and don't strawman people.
Did someone just learn the word "strawman"?
I have researched the reviews quite extensively because this whole fiasco pisses me off to no end. It seems like you're conveniently leaving out those that attacked the game specifically for the inclusion of LGBTQ themes - I wonder why you would do that? As for the post you quoted, you can't possibly expect us to believe that a poster who uses the derisive term "SJW" would have been ok with the character if only she had MORE depth. And the hundreds of concentrated downvotes for positive reviews - those are because they're fired up about...technical issues? Is that right?
Sorry, but I'm not the one misrepresenting the other side's argument here.
So there are no technical issues? This is just about politics and you're not misrepresenting one side's argument? Funny that if I go to the steam store page right now I can see the exact opposite: mostly people complaining about technical issues and poor writing. Respectfully and with opinionated but valid points. The fact that they use a term you do not like does not takes away from what you quoted, in fact you actually are misrepresenting his entire point which is the same I'm making: negative reviews are mostly related to technical issues and SHOULD have a right to exist and be read.
Did I say that? For people who complain about strawmen, you all sure do use them a lot.
Of course there are technical issues with the game (although my playthrough has been bug free) and those reviews are perfectly valid. I'm talking about 0 star reviews attacking this game specifically for its (f***ing minimal!) LGBTQ friendly content. If you're telling me that you haven't been able to find SEVERAL of those, then I don't know how I can help you.
Also, did you want to address the flood of downvotes for positive reviews or is that too inconvenient to your argument?
The reviews are very objective there and has nothing to do with the single post at GOG you have mentioned. Bugs, many inconsistencies, lack of originality, meaningless dialogues, very amateurish graphics made from the pieces of existing areas etc etc. It might be a mod but not what is expected from the official game-developing company. I like what Overhaul said about the future of BG3: "Baldur's Gate 3 would only be possible if the team demonstrates the ability to successfully make their own original content." Wish you good luck.
Have you played it?
Never! First, I don't pay and I don't charge for mods, which is my principle, there are tons of them around, and I can make mods for myself. Second, I'm strongly against the whole EE stinky business, and I don't want to support these guys. I said that the call for posting positive reviews against one transgender related post without mentioning posts reporting essential issues is actually another dirty step.
Wauw. I still haven't begun playing SoD because I'm doing a v. 2.0 playthrough of bg1ee... But once I've played SoD, I'll certainly leave a review. Whether this review is positive or negative depend entirely on the quality of the game. I personally have ZERO beef with LGBTQ communities (Who the hell cares? If they aren't forcing me to be something I'm not, why would I force them to be something they aren't?).
My review will be based on the 4 important things that make up a game: Graphics Gameplay Story Mood
(These aren't listed in a particular order, as the importance change depending on type of game and personal preference). Notice that if the LGBTQ stuff is indeed poorly written, as some claim, then I will surely mention that as a negative when it comes to story writing. But it won't be enough to tank the review if it is there.
I didn't even question Mizhena about her name. I'm at the castle and I almost never spoke to her. Who am I to question names? I seriously had to go check it out on purpose.
Have you read any of the hate reviews? This is absolutely what they're complaining about. If you don't like LGBTQ friendly content or generally can't stand that it's no longer 1953, that's fine. But trying to sink a game that people put so much effort into over a few lines of dialogue is despicable.
I left my reviews and hope other people do the same.
Yes, there's a couple of those. Most of them are actually fair because they do mention either the political choices along with the technical issues or even just the technical issues. Overall there's just an overwhelming majority of technical issues being discussed that actually shouldn't be drowned out by positive comments instigated by a political agenda from either party: the devs or the reactionary people commenting on a very narrow view of the game.
Among the written reviews, there are also multiple 0 ratings without written accompaniment. A game has be pretty much broken in order to receive a 0/10...unless that rating is based on hateful politics.
There are 4 user reviews on metacritic. 2 of them are positive. 2 of them are negative. One discusses bugs, the other your SJW stuff. Just calm down. It is too soon to really judge anything. Fallout 4 tanked on metacritic and steam in the beginning too.
The CEO of the company thinks it might be significant enough to harm sales. Fallout 4 is still selling copies like hotcakes today - small games like SoD depend a lot more on early purchases.
Even if it's not going to influence sales one way or the other, I'm frustrated by the principle of the thing. I would never give a game a 0 rating for including something that offended me because I'm not a petulant child. Judging by the insane number of downvotes for positive reviews on Steam, there seem to be hundreds of gamerbros willing to do just that.
Did you forget to read my earlier post that described how most of the negative steam reviews are because of bugs and broken multiplayer? Let me paste that here for you:
Let's look at some of these reviews, shall we? There are currently 12 negative reviews. 10 of these are considered "helpful". 8 of those reviews focuses on bugs and multiplayer not working. A few of them state that there are SJW themes in the game, but state that they are not going to comment on them. 2 reviews are focused only on the so-called LGBTQ content. One is a quote from Amber Scott about the original BG had "lots" of sexism. The second is discussing how it is not natural for someone to immediately state their sexuality after meeting them.
Quote: "It is not natural for a person to just come flat out and tell you their sexuality when you meet them for the first time. This is the mark of poor writing and SJWs trying to "represent" a minority that they themselves don't even understand, which by itself is pretentious and shallow as..."
This can easily be seen as a criticism of the writing rather than a criticism of LGBTQ themes.
Next time, do your research and don't strawman people.
Did someone just learn the word "strawman"?
I have researched the reviews quite extensively because this whole fiasco pisses me off to no end. It seems like you're conveniently leaving out those that attacked the game specifically for the inclusion of LGBTQ themes - I wonder why you would do that? As for the post you quoted, you can't possibly expect us to believe that a poster who uses the derisive term "SJW" would have been ok with the character if only she had MORE depth. And the hundreds of concentrated downvotes for positive reviews - those are because they're fired up about...technical issues? Is that right?
Sorry, but I'm not the one misrepresenting the other side's argument here.
So there are no technical issues? This is just about politics and you're not misrepresenting one side's argument? Funny that if I go to the steam store page right now I can see the exact opposite: mostly people complaining about technical issues and poor writing. Respectfully and with opinionated but valid points. The fact that they use a term you do not like does not takes away from what you quoted, in fact you actually are misrepresenting his entire point which is the same I'm making: negative reviews are mostly related to technical issues and SHOULD have a right to exist and be read.
A lot of the reviews state technical issues but I cant see any about poor writing... Well actually there are a few that say there is poor writing, but they then use that reason as a spring board to then go on about the trans gender character. Maybe that character is poorly written, but are those few lines representative of the whole game? I didn't see them give any more examples..
He just said if you're having a good time then please write a review to counteract those people who are angry about politically correct content. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I don't even like sjw stuff but its inclusion doesn't drop a game to 0/10.
People are seriously taking time out of their lives to try and attack this game over a few seconds worth of content? I mean I get it if the game design or plot went in a direction you didnt like - Ive been there and made my valid criticisms heard on things - that I can accept. But seriously? I cant stand pretentious SJW nonsense but if there are people out there who think this game is trying to push some sort of agenda - its just beggars belief.
I wrote a review on metacritic anyway, not just because I thoroughly enjoyed the game but also because there are literally sad little people clicking away at all the positive reviews saying they unhelpful. Pathetic.
Anyway Im going to play some more of this expansion because Im having a blast.
You choose to focus on the good time part, I choose to focus on the call to balance out the loud minority which is basically requesting to drown out legitimate criticism.
You can't really use a semantics arguments since it goes both ways.
So, suddenly context doesn't matter?
Don't bold any of it and it doesn't support you whatsoever.
How does it does not supports me? I'm saying is wrong for a developer to call to drown out criticism of a "loud minority" no matter how much he disagrees with their politics. There is no question on what he meant with the entire statement. If I take the entire post, it still basically says "If you're having a good time, help us stamp out this political dissidents"
I'm saying that's a misrepresentation of what's going on: the top negative reviews on Steam for example are still about technical issues. You're selectively ignoring part of the statement saying that he's just asking for positive reviews if you enjoy the game when he opens up mentioning Minsc's line and the trans character and specifically asks users to balance out. It could not be more clear, there is no room for not interpreting it as "I don't like political dissidence, henceforth I want people who like this game to balance out those opinions"
Why even mention that? Why there isn't a single line about the majority of the reviewer's points: technical issues? Also why imply that this is because of the content itself when it's perfectly clear on the top reviews that what's being called out is bad, out of character writing? Nobody can object to something entirely subjective now can they? You cannot have a wrong opinion on bad writing, you just consider it bad, it's your subjective experience.
So... living in your delusionary world where your definition of "ethics" is unbreakable, you insult everyone that doesn't like your close-minded attitude to what -I- actually find insulting towards the entire world, from trans to normal people?
I consider the mindset behind this a big detriment to the entire writing of the entire game. Your philosophy is a joke to me, and it bears saying, and your answer to this is is begging for nice reviews?
Now, I totally understand that there are people riding the hate train a bit too liberally, but don't try and spin this as if you're not deserving it.
Your misplaced (and badly presented) political agenda in this game reflects the general quality of your work, and you deserve the general hatred coming to you.
If you can't understand why people despise SJW as a whole, even me, when I am totally for representation of any and all genders/races/types fairly, and why your game is a direct reflection of the problems SJW causes...
...well, what can I say.
But I won't let a game like this spout this kind of SJW ignorance and if that means giving it a harsh review, that'll be that. This kind of thing is toxic to humanity, and its pissing people off even more when its in their beloved Baldur's Gate.
Which really, is the only reason I'm here. If it wasn't Baldur's Gate, I would never have been so shocked to see this kind of close-minded SJW behavior in it. But here we are, uh?
Anyway, I'm dragging this post. You get the idea. Get off your god damn pedestal, you and your game's misplaced ideologies.
Exactly so. It's a bald-faced lie, because if you put those posters on the spot and ask them to name a single LGBT character who does meet that supposed standard of "quality writing", they'd stammer like a machine gun and come up blank. It's a convenient - and transparent - excuse.
Thats a nice Strawman you have there. Not only did you prop him up very proudly, you also unironically went with how he would react according to you. In fact, you should write a fanfic about it.
Just keep ignoring the people who point out Arcade and Veronica as good writing repeatedly since it doesn't support your argument.
I didn't even question Mizhena about her name. I'm at the castle and I almost never spoke to her. Who am I to question names? I seriously had to go check it out on purpose.
@Dimitriid My apologies, I wasn't clear. I mean it doesn't support the idea that anyone is begging. I should have said that, I knew you had other points to make as well.
However, mistype a blockquote tag, and it makes it sound like you're talking to yourself.
Some additional insight: the Steam reviews may be focused primarily on technical issues, but the GOG reviews (which don't require you to own the game) look to be focused on the things that Trent mentioned. And again, most of the reviews are positive; but the few reviews that are negative seem to be focused on things that aren't necessarily relevant to the game's quality. (There's a couple positive ones that are similarly unhelpful.)
So from me? If you like the game, write a review and tell people what you liked. If you don't like the game, write a review and tell people what you didn't like. If you like the game but think it could be better, write that review. If you don't like the game but think it could be worse, write that review.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you've played the game enough to form an opinion, your opinion is valuable to the people who haven't played the game yet, and also to the people who helped create it. Good or bad, make your voices heard. I would rather see substantive criticism about the game's technical stability or writing quality or visual art style, than a series of reviews that are focused on a single NPC's character exposition, or one character's easter egg line.
If you bought the game through Beamdog.com and so don't have a venue for posting your review, why not Tweet, or Facebook, or Tumble about it? Take some screenshots and put them up on Pinterest, if that's your thing. Make a mosaic out of character sprites and use them to tell the story of your time with Siege of Dragonspear.
There's 3500 people playing BG:EE on Steam right now. I don't expect all of those people to stop playing just to write a review. But if you're not playing right now, and you have something to say about your experience, why not write a review to share with the world?
So... living in your delusionary world where your definition of "ethics" is unbreakable, you insult everyone that doesn't like your close-minded attitude to what -I- actually find insulting towards the entire world, from trans to normal people?
I consider the mindset behind this a big detriment to the entire writing of the entire game. Your philosophy is a joke to me, and it bears saying, and your answer to this is is begging for nice reviews?
Now, I totally understand that there are people riding the hate train a bit too liberally, but don't try and spin this as if you're not deserving it.
Your misplaced (and badly presented) political agenda in this game reflects the general quality of your work, and you deserve the general hatred coming to you.
If you can't understand why people despise SJW as a whole, even me, when I am totally for representation of any and all genders/races/types fairly, and why your game is a direct reflection of the problems SJW causes...
...well, what can I say.
But I won't let a game like this spout this kind of SJW ignorance and if that means giving it a harsh review, that'll be that. This kind of thing is toxic to humanity, and its pissing people off even more when its in their beloved Baldur's Gate.
Which really, is the only reason I'm here. If it wasn't Baldur's Gate, I would never have been so shocked to see this kind of close-minded SJW behavior in it. But here we are, uh?
Anyway, I'm dragging this post. You get the idea. Get off your god damn pedestal, you and your game's misplaced ideologies.
What the hell are you talking about? It's ONE paragraph from a non-essential character. This is no agenda. No politics aside from the tiny inclusion of a transgender NPC that is completely optional and offers no other content aside from healing services.
Your close-minded opinions and sweeping generalizations are the thing that are toxic here.
There is no ingrained bigotry or intolerance in the gaming community, that's not what this is about.
I agree.
What I meant more is that people more often than not are celebrating and defending a character simply for being black or in this case trans even if he neither fits the world/setting nor is written well.
The reviews are very objective there and has nothing to do with the single post at GOG you have mentioned. Bugs, many inconsistencies, lack of originality, meaningless dialogues, very amateurish graphics made from the pieces of existing areas etc etc. It might be a mod but not what is expected from the official game-developing company. I like what Overhaul said about the future of BG3: "Baldur's Gate 3 would only be possible if the team demonstrates the ability to successfully make their own original content." Wish you good luck.
Have you played it?
Never! First, I don't pay and I don't charge for mods, which is my principle, there are tons of them around, and I can make mods for myself. Second, I'm strongly against the whole EE stinky business, and I don't want to support these guys. I said that the call for posting positive reviews against one transgender related post without mentioning posts reporting essential issues is actually another dirty step.
Sooooo...you're upset about technical issues that you haven't experienced in a game you've never played and never intend to play? Dude, don't you have anywhere else to be?
@Dee My only issue is that saying that at all, or making note of it, makes some people think you're desperate, and as Messi said, riles up and inflames an already itchy rash.
Have you read any of the hate reviews? This is absolutely what they're complaining about. If you don't like LGBTQ friendly content or generally can't stand that it's no longer 1953, that's fine. But trying to sink a game that people put so much effort into over a few lines of dialogue is despicable.
I left my reviews and hope other people do the same.
Yes, there's a couple of those. Most of them are actually fair because they do mention either the political choices along with the technical issues or even just the technical issues. Overall there's just an overwhelming majority of technical issues being discussed that actually shouldn't be drowned out by positive comments instigated by a political agenda from either party: the devs or the reactionary people commenting on a very narrow view of the game.
Among the written reviews, there are also multiple 0 ratings without written accompaniment. A game has be pretty much broken in order to receive a 0/10...unless that rating is based on hateful politics.
There are 4 user reviews on metacritic. 2 of them are positive. 2 of them are negative. One discusses bugs, the other your SJW stuff. Just calm down. It is too soon to really judge anything. Fallout 4 tanked on metacritic and steam in the beginning too.
The CEO of the company thinks it might be significant enough to harm sales. Fallout 4 is still selling copies like hotcakes today - small games like SoD depend a lot more on early purchases.
Even if it's not going to influence sales one way or the other, I'm frustrated by the principle of the thing. I would never give a game a 0 rating for including something that offended me because I'm not a petulant child. Judging by the insane number of downvotes for positive reviews on Steam, there seem to be hundreds of gamerbros willing to do just that.
Did you forget to read my earlier post that described how most of the negative steam reviews are because of bugs and broken multiplayer? Let me paste that here for you:
Let's look at some of these reviews, shall we? There are currently 12 negative reviews. 10 of these are considered "helpful". 8 of those reviews focuses on bugs and multiplayer not working. A few of them state that there are SJW themes in the game, but state that they are not going to comment on them. 2 reviews are focused only on the so-called LGBTQ content. One is a quote from Amber Scott about the original BG had "lots" of sexism. The second is discussing how it is not natural for someone to immediately state their sexuality after meeting them.
Quote: "It is not natural for a person to just come flat out and tell you their sexuality when you meet them for the first time. This is the mark of poor writing and SJWs trying to "represent" a minority that they themselves don't even understand, which by itself is pretentious and shallow as..."
This can easily be seen as a criticism of the writing rather than a criticism of LGBTQ themes.
Next time, do your research and don't strawman people.
Did someone just learn the word "strawman"?
I have researched the reviews quite extensively because this whole fiasco pisses me off to no end. It seems like you're conveniently leaving out those that attacked the game specifically for the inclusion of LGBTQ themes - I wonder why you would do that? As for the post you quoted, you can't possibly expect us to believe that a poster who uses the derisive term "SJW" would have been ok with the character if only she had MORE depth. And the hundreds of concentrated downvotes for positive reviews - those are because they're fired up about...technical issues? Is that right?
Sorry, but I'm not the one misrepresenting the other side's argument here.
So there are no technical issues? This is just about politics and you're not misrepresenting one side's argument? Funny that if I go to the steam store page right now I can see the exact opposite: mostly people complaining about technical issues and poor writing. Respectfully and with opinionated but valid points. The fact that they use a term you do not like does not takes away from what you quoted, in fact you actually are misrepresenting his entire point which is the same I'm making: negative reviews are mostly related to technical issues and SHOULD have a right to exist and be read.
Did I say that? For people who complain about strawmen, you all sure do use them a lot.
Of course there are technical issues with the game (although my playthrough has been bug free) and those reviews are perfectly valid. I'm talking about 0 star reviews attacking this game specifically for its (f***ing minimal!) LGBTQ friendly content. If you're telling me that you haven't been able to find SEVERAL of those, then I don't know how I can help you.
Also, did you want to address the flood of downvotes for positive reviews or is that too inconvenient to your argument?
My point has consistently been that calling out political disagreements is misleading. Go to the steam page, here I'll give you the link:
What's the first negative review? and the second? the third? All three are mostly about technical issues. Which coincidentally address your second point: those, and not the pure "trolling" reviews (which actually DO have a right to exist and be upvoted: you don't get to control people's political opinions) are clearly on the upfront. Those are valid, those are real problems potential new comers face. Those are the ones being upheld as the most popular reviews, your entire point fails by your own standard then.
Dorn il-Khan Didn't like the character and didn't have him in my group so I cant tell.
Hexxat Black lesbian vampire who dun need no man. Are you serious?
Dorn and Hexxat aren't really forced. My experience has been Dorn coming on to my character and the whole thing ending with a respectful "I don't swing that way." and that being the end of it. Hexxat it just never came up because I didn't have a female character, and the fact that she didn't exactly embrace being a vampire was far more interesting than who she tries to share a bed with.
There are times when this sort of thing has to be flamboyant to get the point across. There are other times when subtlety is key. example: Albus Dumbledore. His sexuality was never brought up in the Harry Potter books because his romantic conquests were never an issue.
What's so hard to understand? If you provoke people with your political views in your game, people will provoke you back and they will downvote you (if they don't agree with you) This might not be up there with Bioware, but it's similar enough and people have had enough. Deal with it.
I can see how it's annoying to have reviews - downvoted that talk positively about the game (without mentioning a TG cleric or Minsc's ethics) - upvoted that talk about pandering to SJWs or not liking the queer
The release is probably a crucial period, so one-issue review and vote brigading based on all of 3-4(?) lines misrepresents the actual quality of the game: you know, the parts about exploring dungeons and fighting monsters.
The most popular and upvoted comments talk about technical issues and bad writing. They even have to preface it with "I have nothing against LGBT people" because they know they'll be misrepresented for calling out bad writing and lo and behold, apparently it was necessary.
The reviews are very objective there and has nothing to do with the single post at GOG you have mentioned. Bugs, many inconsistencies, lack of originality, meaningless dialogues, very amateurish graphics made from the pieces of existing areas etc etc. It might be a mod but not what is expected from the official game-developing company. I like what Overhaul said about the future of BG3: "Baldur's Gate 3 would only be possible if the team demonstrates the ability to successfully make their own original content." Wish you good luck.
Have you played it?
Never! First, I don't pay and I don't charge for mods, which is my principle, there are tons of them around, and I can make mods for myself. Second, I'm strongly against the whole EE stinky business, and I don't want to support these guys. I said that the call for posting positive reviews against one transgender related post without mentioning posts reporting essential issues is actually another dirty step.
Hehe, @Vlad you once asked me at BWL to tell you 3 advantages that BGEE has over vanilla. I sincerely wanted to do just that, but then I thought I'm not that suicidal. Whatever I'd said it wouldn't change your mind, so I backed off. Your post above just confirms this. And saying that area graphics in SoD is just made from pieces of existing art is well... unjust to put it mildly. Look, you obviously didn't played SoD, so just throwing insults, because you don't like Beamdog? Try it out for gods sake, you may be even surprised!
I have researched the reviews quite extensively because this whole fiasco pisses me off to no end. It seems like you're conveniently leaving out those that attacked the game specifically for the inclusion of LGBTQ themes - I wonder why you would do that? As for the post you quoted, you can't possibly expect us to believe that a poster who uses the derisive term "SJW" would have been ok with the character if only she had MORE depth. And the hundreds of concentrated downvotes for positive reviews - those are because they're fired up about...technical issues? Is that right?
Sorry, but I'm not the one misrepresenting the other side's argument here.
Exactly so. It's a bald-faced lie, because if you put those posters on the spot and ask them to name a single LGBT character who does meet that supposed standard of "quality writing", they'd stammer like a machine gun and come up blank. It's a convenient - and transparent - excuse.
Most of the characters you listed are the usual Bioware trash. Witcher 3 had representations of LGBT characters that were not forced. Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines had Jeanette if we include implications. I didn't even think Dorn as a character was that bad. It was just the quality of the writing. If we go outside of the gaming realm, Renly Baratheon and Loras Tyrell were good LGBT characters. I didn't mind the LGBT overtones in Haruki Murakami's 1Q84. Should I keep going or can I stop now?
Hi everyone. I usually spend most of my time lurking here, but I'd like to ask a favour. It appears that having a transgendered cleric and a joke line by Minsc has greatly offended the sensibilities of some people. This has spurred these people into action, causing them to decide this is the worst game of all time and give it a zero review score on Steam, GoG and meta critic. Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.
Thank you. -Trent
Question: Have you actually tried to approach "some people" and address the worries of "these people" instead of deciding that they must all be bigots because they are unhappy with gender-politics getting shoved into the game?
I will say this though. If you have the ability to make artistic content ( For you guys it's making video games) you don't have the right to push your views,( political or otherwise ) through that artistic format and then also try and justify it by ridiculing the other side. I think this is where the anger is coming from.
You have the right to say what you want, just make sure you can take the backlash eloquently and not try to silence the ones that don't agree with you.
Sorry but not all opinions are of equal weight, and there is a difference between criticism and outright trolling. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of SOD, and for me, that includes the UI, bugs, and narrative flow, but in the end, I'd expect people to judge SOD as a whole product. When a mob of people who doesn't even own the game starts to flood forums and complain about a relatively minor issue within the context of the game, I certainly question their motives and sincerity.
Those who write silly reviews over that one Minsc line are as relevant as those who complained about Sidney Pontier's skin color in the 1960s.
Two things that are wrong with your final sentence.
1/ You are trying to compare the struggles of Black Americans in the 60's to the political views of 1% of the worlds population?
2/ No comment is "silly" or less than another. All comments are to be considered equally because they have the RIGHT to be said. Do not try to ridicule someone because they do not agree with your view.
If you ever dare to start talking about slavery I would suggest you read a little first. My people where slaved and culled for over 500 years. No mention of a holocaust or a blip in American schools. Don't ever pull the race card.
1) Yes, since both groups, in their times, fought for cultural acceptance. It says a lot about the maturity of the gaming medium when TV shows, films, and even comic books can have LGBT characters being depicted without reactionary lynch mobs crying about "pandering" and "political correctness". My point stands.
2) Maybe in your own head, but in real life, they do not. A person who believes the moon is made out of cheese is entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean his views should be taken seriously or given equal weight to trained scientists. Similarly, the opinions of a person who actually played the game can at least provide backing evidence, as opposed to ones flooding reviews because they heard that the game dared to include a transgendered person.
3) The only one pulling out the race card is you. My country of origin lost hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century, but it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Dorn and Hexxat aren't really forced. My experience has been Dorn coming on to my character and the whole thing ending with a respectful "I don't swing that way." and that being the end of it. Hexxat it just never came up because I didn't have a female character, and the fact that she didn't exactly embrace being a vampire was far more interesting than who she tries to share a bed with.
There are times when this sort of thing has to be flamboyant to get the point across. There are other times when subtlety is key. example: Albus Dumbledore. His sexuality was never brought up in the Harry Potter books because his romantic conquests were never an issue.
Dorn and Hexxat aren't really forced. My experience has been Dorn coming on to my character and the whole thing ending with a respectful "I don't swing that way." and that being the end of it. Hexxat it just never came up because I didn't have a female character, and the fact that she didn't exactly embrace being a vampire was far more interesting than who she tries to share a bed with.
There are times when this sort of thing has to be flamboyant to get the point across. There are other times when subtlety is key. example: Albus Dumbledore. His sexuality was never brought up in the Harry Potter books because his romantic conquests were never an issue.
I didn't even know either of them were gay.
This is how it should be if you don't follow their romance path.
Comments
1/ You are trying to compare the struggles of Black Americans in the 60's to the political views of 1% of the worlds population?
2/ No comment is "silly" or less than another. All comments are to be considered equally because they have the RIGHT to be said. Do not try to ridicule someone because they do not agree with your view.
If you ever dare to start talking about slavery I would suggest you read a little first. My people where slaved and culled for over 500 years. No mention of a holocaust or a blip in American schools. Don't ever pull the race card.
Of course there are technical issues with the game (although my playthrough has been bug free) and those reviews are perfectly valid. I'm talking about 0 star reviews attacking this game specifically for its (f***ing minimal!) LGBTQ friendly content. If you're telling me that you haven't been able to find SEVERAL of those, then I don't know how I can help you.
Also, did you want to address the flood of downvotes for positive reviews or is that too inconvenient to your argument?
My review will be based on the 4 important things that make up a game:
Graphics
Gameplay
Story
Mood
(These aren't listed in a particular order, as the importance change depending on type of game and personal preference).
Notice that if the LGBTQ stuff is indeed poorly written, as some claim, then I will surely mention that as a negative when it comes to story writing. But it won't be enough to tank the review if it is there.
So, it isn't shoved down your throat like a lot people have been saying it is then?
A lot of the reviews state technical issues but I cant see any about poor writing... Well actually there are a few that say there is poor writing, but they then use that reason as a spring board to then go on about the trans gender character. Maybe that character is poorly written, but are those few lines representative of the whole game? I didn't see them give any more examples..
I wrote a review on metacritic anyway, not just because I thoroughly enjoyed the game but also because there are literally sad little people clicking away at all the positive reviews saying they unhelpful. Pathetic.
Anyway Im going to play some more of this expansion because Im having a blast.
I'm saying that's a misrepresentation of what's going on: the top negative reviews on Steam for example are still about technical issues. You're selectively ignoring part of the statement saying that he's just asking for positive reviews if you enjoy the game when he opens up mentioning Minsc's line and the trans character and specifically asks users to balance out. It could not be more clear, there is no room for not interpreting it as "I don't like political dissidence, henceforth I want people who like this game to balance out those opinions"
Why even mention that? Why there isn't a single line about the majority of the reviewer's points: technical issues? Also why imply that this is because of the content itself when it's perfectly clear on the top reviews that what's being called out is bad, out of character writing? Nobody can object to something entirely subjective now can they? You cannot have a wrong opinion on bad writing, you just consider it bad, it's your subjective experience.
I consider the mindset behind this a big detriment to the entire writing of the entire game. Your philosophy is a joke to me, and it bears saying, and your answer to this is is begging for nice reviews?
Now, I totally understand that there are people riding the hate train a bit too liberally, but don't try and spin this as if you're not deserving it.
Your misplaced (and badly presented) political agenda in this game reflects the general quality of your work, and you deserve the general hatred coming to you.
If you can't understand why people despise SJW as a whole, even me, when I am totally for representation of any and all genders/races/types fairly, and why your game is a direct reflection of the problems SJW causes...
...well, what can I say.
But I won't let a game like this spout this kind of SJW ignorance and if that means giving it a harsh review, that'll be that. This kind of thing is toxic to humanity, and its pissing people off even more when its in their beloved Baldur's Gate.
Which really, is the only reason I'm here. If it wasn't Baldur's Gate, I would never have been so shocked to see this kind of close-minded SJW behavior in it. But here we are, uh?
Anyway, I'm dragging this post. You get the idea. Get off your god damn pedestal, you and your game's misplaced ideologies.
In fact, you should write a fanfic about it.
Just keep ignoring the people who point out Arcade and Veronica as good writing repeatedly since it doesn't support your argument.
Nope. Although she has a voice-over. That could have been "the issue".
Some additional insight: the Steam reviews may be focused primarily on technical issues, but the GOG reviews (which don't require you to own the game) look to be focused on the things that Trent mentioned. And again, most of the reviews are positive; but the few reviews that are negative seem to be focused on things that aren't necessarily relevant to the game's quality. (There's a couple positive ones that are similarly unhelpful.)
https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_siege_of_dragonspear
So from me? If you like the game, write a review and tell people what you liked. If you don't like the game, write a review and tell people what you didn't like. If you like the game but think it could be better, write that review. If you don't like the game but think it could be worse, write that review.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you've played the game enough to form an opinion, your opinion is valuable to the people who haven't played the game yet, and also to the people who helped create it. Good or bad, make your voices heard. I would rather see substantive criticism about the game's technical stability or writing quality or visual art style, than a series of reviews that are focused on a single NPC's character exposition, or one character's easter egg line.
If you bought the game through Beamdog.com and so don't have a venue for posting your review, why not Tweet, or Facebook, or Tumble about it? Take some screenshots and put them up on Pinterest, if that's your thing. Make a mosaic out of character sprites and use them to tell the story of your time with Siege of Dragonspear.
There's 3500 people playing BG:EE on Steam right now. I don't expect all of those people to stop playing just to write a review. But if you're not playing right now, and you have something to say about your experience, why not write a review to share with the world?
What the hell are you talking about? It's ONE paragraph from a non-essential character. This is no agenda. No politics aside from the tiny inclusion of a transgender NPC that is completely optional and offers no other content aside from healing services.
Your close-minded opinions and sweeping generalizations are the thing that are toxic here.
What I meant more is that people more often than not are celebrating and defending a character simply for being black or in this case trans even if he neither fits the world/setting nor is written well.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/
What's the first negative review? and the second? the third? All three are mostly about technical issues. Which coincidentally address your second point: those, and not the pure "trolling" reviews (which actually DO have a right to exist and be upvoted: you don't get to control people's political opinions) are clearly on the upfront. Those are valid, those are real problems potential new comers face. Those are the ones being upheld as the most popular reviews, your entire point fails by your own standard then.
There are times when this sort of thing has to be flamboyant to get the point across. There are other times when subtlety is key. example: Albus Dumbledore. His sexuality was never brought up in the Harry Potter books because his romantic conquests were never an issue.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/
The most popular and upvoted comments talk about technical issues and bad writing. They even have to preface it with "I have nothing against LGBT people" because they know they'll be misrepresented for calling out bad writing and lo and behold, apparently it was necessary.
Honestly, I am curious.
1) Yes, since both groups, in their times, fought for cultural acceptance. It says a lot about the maturity of the gaming medium when TV shows, films, and even comic books can have LGBT characters being depicted without reactionary lynch mobs crying about "pandering" and "political correctness". My point stands.
2) Maybe in your own head, but in real life, they do not. A person who believes the moon is made out of cheese is entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean his views should be taken seriously or given equal weight to trained scientists. Similarly, the opinions of a person who actually played the game can at least provide backing evidence, as opposed to ones flooding reviews because they heard that the game dared to include a transgendered person.
3) The only one pulling out the race card is you. My country of origin lost hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century, but it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.