@Dimitriid I think @Purudaya is trying to say (keep in mind I have no clue who these GGers are) that the people from GamersGate are purposely tanking positive reviews down even if they're valid.
Is it that time again were Progressives collectively shit themselves because of the GG-Boogeyman? I am always amused when SJWs cant decide whether GG is the Evil Overlord of the Internet who is lurking behind every keyboard or if its just a "bunch of pathetic man-children who dont have to be your audience anymore".
Also do we actually have ANY proof that GG is behind it? Do we have any proof that GG is related to it?
Not every negative review has to have anti-LGBT sentiment to be upvoted by people who have anti-LGBT sentiment. Does that not make any sense to anyone?
I wouldit's obably have made a review eventually, positive or negative, but now I can't in good conscience do either. Dee seems more reasonable though, and had I not already had my view colored, I would most definitely made one. Though to be fair, even critiquing the writing of of a single character is still valid, though not enough to make an overall bad review. Also, obviously letting a writer splurge at will to some site on the internet, you'd be mad not to expect bad PR. That article was terrible. Anyway, hope for a lot more from you guys, you're generally doing a great job, bringing me back to a game I literally own 5 legal copies of (bought as part of packs and upgrades to dvds etc with technology) and having me buy one more, and then making another expansion. Keep on keeping on.
Just write an honest review. If its your opinion its your opinion.
o3o i woudlnt' know anything about this but isn't this dishonest? like removable from steam dishonest? it is. if they get away with it while others didn't then i must call foul.
also, the bugs are an issue. and that's what everyone is talking about.
Thats a riot coming from someone who cherry-picks arguments and replies as hard as you do.
If you can show me where I've done so and haven't addressed it, please do.
All you need to do is go back to the 2 page of this thread, look to what you replied, look to what people replied to you and what you DID NOT reply to.
Its not that hard, please try to be intellectually honest of you demand it from others.
Sorry man, I checked and I've replied to every person who quoted me on page 2. But if you want to go through everything I've written and try to find something I've missed, feel free I guess.
That said, do you know what intellectual dishonesty means? It's not about replying to every argument a person makes, but about representing your argument truthfully and consistently. I have written that reviews criticizing technical issues are valid, for example. My general argument has been that there are several negative reviews based solely on LGBTQ issues, and those that criticize "bad writing" are universally in opposition to the LGBTQ character as well. I have further argued that the negative reviews on steam - a minority - have been aggressively topvoted, which is plain to see.
I've written about all of this in the context of Trent Oster asking that people who liked the game express themselves in the form of a review and the hypocrites accusing him of trying to "manipulate" the process. That's it. Denying the gamergate component in this and pretending that it's all just "technical issues" and "bad writing" is fundamentally dishonest.
Again, look at the OP on this thread: that's more manipulative of the system, at the very least as manipulative. Second, do you care to address my previous post in which I've shown the first 10 reviews and how, the most popular ones are actually mostly not trolling at all or at least mixed or with valid criticism regardless of your views on the political motivations?
Either your description is not accurate or the agenda of the evil GG people is highly ineffective as the most reasonable, yet critical of reviews are at the very top in popularity.
A person with your username left a negative review on Steam talking purely about this thread, quoting it and nothing about the game content at all. Thats being political and manipulating the score system. Asking for genuine reviews to drown out your manipulation of the review system by posting a negative review with no mention of game content is not political.
1) Yeah, I think most developers would agree Steam is a much bigger deal than gog.com. I'm not saying is better, I'm not saying is ideal, I'm just stating reality: gog is orders of magnitude less popular even for niche RPG games
2) Right you've quoted reviews that mostly criticize the writing of the game. Calling out a supposed fallacy doesn't invalidates the argument that the user thought it was forced in. You might disagree, that's valid. But you're implying that these reviews are mostly trolling about something that's not going on here. We have seen this in gamer gate time and time again: people insists on trying to discredit legitimate criticism with cherry picked, mostly irrelevant voices that do troll. What about the multiplayer issues? What about the lines being out character for a medieval inspired setting? What about the fact that even if you disagree with those views, there is no legitimate reason to call out people to "balance out" things you don't agree with politically?
It appears that in this case, what you point to as a criticism of writing quality, I consider a reactionary aversion to 3-4 lines spoken between Minsc and a queer cleric. A valid review of writing quality for an RPG would include discussing at least these major elements: namely, the main characters, factions, plot, and dialogue. Not just a minor character or a line spoken by the series' head injured comic relief.
Medieval inspired setting? o_O DnD has taken inspiration and monsters from many ancient cultures and mythologies. Besides which, Baldur's Gate has always had inconsistent accents and stylistic dialogue, even before the EEs. Didn't you wonder why there was faux-Shakespeare next to modern American speech?
You're here supporting people you politically agree with. How can you slam others for doing the same? A group you disagree with fights back. How can you complain?
ah, what and ad hoc argument... but then again, if you bothered to take a look the bugs and bad quality is something. Then again, let's forget about how a trans person is railing against this tokenism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFDc2gSTQgo this was from a while back but the fact she was still harassed and all sorts of nasty things for not "falling in line" with you against goobergrapes...
@Dimitriid I think @Purudaya is trying to say (keep in mind I have no clue who these GGers are) that the people from GamersGate are purposely tanking positive reviews down even if they're valid.
Is it that time again were Progressives collectively shit themselves because of the GG-Boogeyman? I am always amused when SJWs cant decide whether GG is the Evil Overlord of the Internet who is lurking behind every keyboard or if its just a "bunch of pathetic man-children who dont have to be your audience anymore".
Also do we actually have ANY proof that GG is behind it? Do we have any proof that GG is related to it?
I don't know, but there sure are a lot of enraged gamerbros cropping up in the steam forums about it. And I can't remember a game with a majority of positive reviews seeing them all downvoted, but whatever.
Oh, and any group with a history of attacking female gamers, writers, and reporters with rape and death threats whenever they even suggest that sexism exists in the medium deserves any negative characterization it receives.
@RanceSama with the smoking gun! Some deep investigative reporting has revealed that Amber Scott, self-professed feminist, follows a feminist Twitter account. So, like, Q.E.D., everyone.
Thats a riot coming from someone who cherry-picks arguments and replies as hard as you do.
If you can show me where I've done so and haven't addressed it, please do.
All you need to do is go back to the 2 page of this thread, look to what you replied, look to what people replied to you and what you DID NOT reply to.
Its not that hard, please try to be intellectually honest of you demand it from others.
Sorry man, I checked and I've replied to every person who quoted me on page 2. But if you want to go through everything I've written and try to find something I've missed, feel free I guess.
That said, do you know what intellectual dishonesty means? It's not about replying to every argument a person makes, but about representing your argument truthfully and consistently. I have written that reviews criticizing technical issues are valid, for example. My general argument has been that there are several negative reviews based solely on LGBTQ issues, and those that criticize "bad writing" are universally in opposition to the LGBTQ character as well. I have further argued that the negative reviews on steam - a minority - have been aggressively topvoted, which is plain to see.
I've written about all of this in the context of Trent Oster asking that people who liked the game express themselves in the form of a review and the hypocrites accusing him of trying to "manipulate" the process. That's it. Denying the gamergate component in this and pretending that it's all just "technical issues" and "bad writing" is fundamentally dishonest.
Again, look at the OP on this thread: that's more manipulative of the system, at the very least as manipulative. Second, do you care to address my previous post in which I've shown the first 10 reviews and how, the most popular ones are actually mostly not trolling at all or at least mixed or with valid criticism regardless of your views on the political motivations?
Either your description is not accurate or the agenda of the evil GG people is highly ineffective as the most reasonable, yet critical of reviews are at the very top in popularity.
You skipped my post going though the review content, and now I'm supposed to go through yours and refute it point by point?
Did you see the one that called trans people freaks and Amber Scott a c*nt? It's since been removed, but I can promise you it wasn't about technical issues.
I don't need to address all of your points if I do not, assume I concede them or that I did not find them relevant to the points I am bringing forward but feel free to point out why you think one of them where fundamentally incomplete or resulted in a mischaracterization.
Or don't go through mine and do not address it at all if you don't find that you can, either way is fine really.
I stated it earlier but it was buried in a deluge of posts so I'll say it again. If you need an example of how to do a LGBT-type character right look to Fallout: New Vegas with Arcade Gannon and Veronica. Their lifestyle is not who they are, it's never really mentioned unless you try to "hit on" Arcade or you delve into their personal stories.
Anyway, I'm done discussing this issue personally because it never gets anywhere but making people angry at each other. I've said my piece multiple times and am finished. It makes me sad that after so long waiting for a new Baldur's Gate that the discussion is centered around one irrelevant NPC and a joke line by Minsc and not the awesome gameplay or interesting storyline. Have fun in the infinite loop of this argument everyone.
Oh boy, now I triggered the trigger. FYI I just came into the pic during some forum talk, not taken by me at all. Have a good night dear people, and keep ruining timeless classics just to force a personal agenda and get some post in an internet page about videogames
What's so hard to understand? If you provoke people with your political views in your game, people will provoke you back and they will downvote you (if they don't agree with you) This might not be up there with Bioware, but it's similar enough and people have had enough. Deal with it.
They're just manipulating the scoring system and ranking of reviews which is basically bringing the user review system into disrepute. Its pathetic.
Again: the top reviews are actually concerning mostly technical issues and bad writing criticism. The scoring system seems to be working just fine, if there's anyone attempting to manipulate the scoring system well go back to the original post here in this thread.
70% of steam reviews are positive but top ones all negative including the anti-sjw ones. Definite manipulation of the scoring system by this horrible group.
Again, that's just not accurate: Most helpful review by popular choice is about technical issues only Second one mentions both technical issues and bad writing. Yes he mentions there was an agenda but he basically states it's distastefulness in the way it's written. How is that trolling?
Third one: 0 mention of any of these issues, mostly a valid criticism on modding compatibility.
Fourth one: "A lot of complaints are being directed at the blatant SJW writing in the game. Personally, it's something I couldn't care less about one way or the other. It's a non-point as far as I'm concerned.
What does bother me is the amount of bugs in the game. " Score another one for technical issues only.
Fifth one: "“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”-Amber Scott, writer for new Baldur's Gate" That's mostly political so that's actually the first one you have a point in being possibly unfairly upvoted if you believe political disagreement has no right to exist at all which is something I wouldn't agree with but regardless, is highly misrepresented as we're seeing
Sixth: "Beamdog: Please fix multiplayer!!!!!!!
I love BG: EE and I am sure I will love this expansion, if I could play it. The multiplayer is literally unplayable at the moment .
Please fix..." Technical issue 100%
Seventh: "EDIT: I would like to start out by saying I don't hate gays or transsexuals in any way. They do them, and I do me. I really don't care, because it doesn't affect me. What I do care about is when this is shoved down my throat and I am forced to mingle with it instead of letting me discover it for myself." I say it's mostly about bad writing but because of the language and political points I'm willing to concede this one as one for your "trolls are wining" argument.
Eight: " will recommend this once it has had a couple of patches. I'm not going to comment much on the SJW nonsense that has infected the reviews, other than to say I just want to review the game as I see it. I am sure the political war will rage on, I'd rather just enjoy what a game has to offer (and actually play it to fairly review its content.)
I have put in about 20 hours on this now, but I am putting it down for the moment due to some fairly unforgiveable bugs. More on that later." Specifically calls out to disregard political points to focus on technical issues.
Ninth: By yours truly in which I call out this specific thread as a reprehensible act of manipulation on the part of the developers. Like many others I tried to ignore the political agenda here but it was blatantly forced in by the devs.
Finally the tenth review: ">Cringey dialog >SJW propaganda >Baeloth out of nowhere >Doesn't even give minsc in the beginning "If you don't like it, too bad." Even though only one point is "trolling" I'm willing to concede the entire thing.
It still looks like your average new comer will mostly be presented with criticism about technical issues and issues with the writing, and there's actually more warnings about trying to ignore the political side of things than objections with the Trans character or Minsc Line.
By your own criteria, your points are demonstrably not accurate at all, goes for OP as well.
the only solution for me is this. http://i.imgur.com/LlKpa73.png?1 i'll be removing all the stuff i have. buying the originals and never doing business with beam dog ever again.
Well, Trent - maybe spitting in the face of long time Baldur's Gate fans wasn't such a great idea? I read the Kotaku interview with Amber Scott where she slandered the original game and said that you decided to drastically change the personalities of Safana and Jaheira because you felt that the existing personalities from BG 1 & 2 were "problematic" and where she insulted any fans who dislike you re-writing existing characters. Then there's the fact that 2016 extremist politics do NOT belong in a fantasy game with existing lore where these issues did not exist. If you want to make a game about your political views, that's fine - I fully support that, but make it an original game instead of crudely forcing it into an existing franchise. No one has a problem with there being gay or trans characters in a video game - they have a problem with you painfully forcing gay and trans characters into Baldur's Gate where these types of characters do not exist in the D&D lore that Baldur's Gate is built upon. I like the various romantic options in Dragon Age and Mass Effect - because they were their own universes and they didn't try to force an existing universe to change to fit the views of the writing team. So yes, this is very much a "gameplay issue" because it completely breaks the immersion of the game as well as utterly annihilating the consistency between Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 by having Safana and Jaheira drastically change their personalities for 30 hours of gameplay before going back to their normal personalities.
The smart thing to do would be to FIX THE GAME and remove the content that does not fit with the world / story that already existed and resulted in countless awards for the Baldur's Gate series. But the last two years have shown that when it comes to pushing the SJW agenda, when things go badly people like you always double down and push your agenda even further. I've been a fan of Baldur's Gate since it originally came out, it was the game that got me into roleplaying games and I was eagerly awaiting this expansion after learning it was in the works around a year ago. However, I will not buy it as long as it is written to ruin two characters and destroy the immersion by putting modern politics into Faerun. It has nothing to do with hating anyone and everything to do with wanting a CONSISTENT story that fits the in-game universe.
Oh, another thing about that interview Amber gave - it was really dumb of her to admit that Beamdog won't make original content because it would be "too much effort" to do something unique.
I think we just need to wait for more critic reviews to come through. Its making me a bit mad because although I dont like sjws (and agenda pushing) I believe in free speech and it feels like these horrible gamergaters are trying to gag writers by affecting the success of their products through user review manipulation.
@SqueakyWheel I have absolutely no clue. I'm merely an observer of this entire fest, watching it unravel as I sit here, confused by blind fanaticism on both sides of the discussion, all while asking the question of "But why does it offend you all so much?".
I've seen the dialogue, it doesn't seem out of place compared to the other references Original BG had, to be honest.
Can someone please spell out exactly what this "agenda" is?
Normalizing LGBTWTFBBQ by including token examples wherever possible and demonizing media for not being representative enough.
But don't we have the other side of the coin shown here, where people are demonizing the NPC in question to the point Belhifet looks like an Aasimar next to it?
Wow....this is an absolutely stunning conversation. One of the developers of the expansion has a liberal and feminist world-view and here come the ravenous dogs because there is a transgender cleric in a game that could generously be described as having a niche interest even among RPG-fans. Trust me, it's not the "social justice warriors" that are the problem. Your main point is that liberals take offense to everything, when your entire argument and thesis is that you are taking offense to games not featuring only heterosexual males and buxom and attractive females from now until doomsday. Explain to me again how you are victimized by this??
Hi everyone. I usually spend most of my time lurking here, but I'd like to ask a favour. It appears that having a transgendered cleric and a joke line by Minsc has greatly offended the sensibilities of some people. This has spurred these people into action, causing them to decide this is the worst game of all time and give it a zero review score on Steam, GoG and meta critic. Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.
Thank you. -Trent
How about, instead of demonizing and ridiculing a large part of your customer base, you use actual arguments to explain why they are wrong?
I for one was very much on the fence whether I wanted to buy the game or not. I have had concerns about the past quality of writing combined with the poorly written scene(s) everyone is talking about. And yes, I do feel that transgender cleric (or w/e it is) is shoehorned into the game - and in a very poor fashion at that. That combined with Beamdog apparently thinking Baldurs gate is a sexist game, without apparently having the mental faculties to distinguish between a theme in a game and reality, is really concerning to me.
Now if those instances of forcing a specific political agenda down my throat were few and far between, I would've bought the game without a doubt - and how hard would that have really been to get across to those of us who wanted to buy this game? This comments however shows that my concerns are nothing more than a bigoted childish tantrum to you, that isn't even worth addressing
If you truly think that everyone who has concerns about a political agenda being shoved down their throat is some kind of childish evil racist and sexist, all the power to you. Just don't expect me to buy your game anymore.
basically, the point is (and i saw it in many games) how pathetic are the people that know for the technical side that in any game that patches make it work even witcher 3 had horrible gamebreaking bugs(and continue had) some people in this forum lives in the past they dont want improvements and they are cynical i think you should have known from the very start that this is the kind of people you are treating. aside that i think that you did a great job and i hope that you keep on doing games. Sex is a must in new games because it manages the new era enviroment and people who denied this are just blind or ignorant. im shoked for this people who rates 0 in games they are just manipulating that crap of rating system, if the game has bad writing in certain points (i dont agree this) and have bugs (that are solvable). deserv at least a 5 or 4 i think that art and design is good for everyone nobody point this.
How is it pathetic that the game doesn't works as intended for many? Most developers make it a priority to appease that criticism by promising and promptly working on a patch instead of declaring criticism as some kind of gamergate conspiracy when again, as I've shown here in this thread, the top reviews mostly do NOT concern themselves with identity politics at all and instead criticize technical issues and bad writing.
Asides from that I don't really understand how sex is "a must in new games" mainly because this is mostly not a new game at all, in fact it came out 18 years ago and this is supposed to be additional content for that same game. And even conceding this is somehow "a new game" I still don't see how sex is a must in new games. Did I miss something here? Do we have to force game writers to conform to this?
Or perhaps you just find it distasteful if a game doesn't focuses or touches up on sex and sexual identity? Hey perhaps there's a significant portion of the gaming community that agrees with you, but for the most part I think that people interested in playing new content for a game created in 1998 are probably from a different era altogether: people in their 30s or 40s who mostly enjoyed a fantasy RPG about fighting creatures including dragons in various dungeons. But hey that's just my 2 cents.
Oh, another thing about that interview Amber gave - it was really dumb of her to admit that Beamdog won't make original content because it would be "too much effort" to do something unique.
Therein being a lot of my issue with the lass. Hell, it could have been true and if she hadn't the gall to have said it, I wouldn't even care. As it stands, she has no qualms spitting on those 'below' her as fans and not creators as long as she feels morally correct.
I digress, there is no call for me to get frustrated. The fact of the matter, @Totenglocke , is that there is nothing to remove, and no issues addressed with the character. She is not being oppressed, she is just there. There is nothing to be done regarding her gender, and really? In the time spend whining about this, this is a simple enough issue that a mod could have fixed it for those self-proclaimed 'fans' that are infuriated over this. If you expect it to be 'official' rather than done at the hand of a fan, A.) you're being nonsensical and B.) I doubt you're as devout a fan as you claim, in which case I wonder - why are two blocks of dialogue, less than 1% of dialogue in the game, such a problem?
Hi everyone. I usually spend most of my time lurking here, but I'd like to ask a favour. It appears that having a transgendered cleric and a joke line by Minsc has greatly offended the sensibilities of some people. This has spurred these people into action, causing them to decide this is the worst game of all time and give it a zero review score on Steam, GoG and meta critic. Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.
Thank you. -Trent
How about, instead of demonizing and ridiculing a large part of your customer base, you use actual arguments to explain why they are wrong?
I for one was very much on the fence whether I wanted to buy the game or not. I have had concerns about the past quality of writing combined with the poorly written scene(s) everyone is talking about. And yes, I do feel that transgender cleric (or w/e it is) is shoehorned into the game - and in a very poor fashion at that. That combined with Beamdog apparently thinking Baldurs gate is a sexist game, without apparently having the mental faculties to distinguish between a theme in a game and reality, is really concerning to me.
Now if those instances of forcing a specific political agenda down my throat were few and far between, I would've bought the game without a doubt - and how hard would that have really been to get across to those of us who wanted to buy this game? This comments however shows that my concerns are nothing more than a bigoted childish tantrum to you, that isn't even worth addressing
If you truly think that everyone who has concerns about a political agenda being shoved down their throat is some kind of childish evil racist and sexist, all the power to you. Just don't expect me to buy your game anymore.
So you admit that you don't even own the game, much less played it, then proclaim that the trans NPC is being "shoehorned in"? The mental gymnastics is strong with this one.
"If you truly think that everyone who has concerns about a political agenda being shoved down their throat is some kind of childish evil racist and sexist, all the power to you. Just don't expect me to buy your game anymore."
I certainly think that, mostly because the fact that you always complain about having the agenda "shoved down your throat" reveals just about everything I could ever need to know. Have your been to a movie the last 20 years, watched a television show, been anywhere in public??
Can someone please spell out exactly what this "agenda" is?
Normalizing LGBTWTFBBQ by including token examples wherever possible and demonizing media for not being representative enough.
So you view normalizing LGBTQ rights as a bad thing in general, or in this specific case because it's "token"? Because I'm all for having an even more in-depth trans character with tons of original traits and dialogue.
Trust me, it's not the "social justice warriors" that are the problem. Your main point is that liberals take offense to everything, when your entire argument and thesis is that you are taking offense to games not featuring only heterosexual males and buxom and attractive females from now until doomsday. Explain to me again how you are victimized by this??
No, I dont think I will trust you because you try really hard to misrepresent the argument.
Its funny how you are on the side of "everything is political" but if that stance is criticized and people outright tell you on steam or here why they dont want any gender-politics in their hobby you claim they are offended and not you.
Like, through how many mental hoops did you have to jump to arrive to that conclusion. There are well-thought out explanations as to why people are bothered by it and why they criticize the writer and all you could come up with was HURR DURR U MUST BE ALL OFFENDED.
I legitimately cant tell if you are trolling or just projecting that hard.
Thats a riot coming from someone who cherry-picks arguments and replies as hard as you do.
If you can show me where I've done so and haven't addressed it, please do.
All you need to do is go back to the 2 page of this thread, look to what you replied, look to what people replied to you and what you DID NOT reply to.
Its not that hard, please try to be intellectually honest of you demand it from others.
Sorry man, I checked and I've replied to every person who quoted me on page 2. But if you want to go through everything I've written and try to find something I've missed, feel free I guess.
That said, do you know what intellectual dishonesty means? It's not about replying to every argument a person makes, but about representing your argument truthfully and consistently. I have written that reviews criticizing technical issues are valid, for example. My general argument has been that there are several negative reviews based solely on LGBTQ issues, and those that criticize "bad writing" are universally in opposition to the LGBTQ character as well. I have further argued that the negative reviews on steam - a minority - have been aggressively topvoted, which is plain to see.
I've written about all of this in the context of Trent Oster asking that people who liked the game express themselves in the form of a review and the hypocrites accusing him of trying to "manipulate" the process. That's it. Denying the gamergate component in this and pretending that it's all just "technical issues" and "bad writing" is fundamentally dishonest.
Again, look at the OP on this thread: that's more manipulative of the system, at the very least as manipulative. Second, do you care to address my previous post in which I've shown the first 10 reviews and how, the most popular ones are actually mostly not trolling at all or at least mixed or with valid criticism regardless of your views on the political motivations?
Either your description is not accurate or the agenda of the evil GG people is highly ineffective as the most reasonable, yet critical of reviews are at the very top in popularity.
A person with your username left a negative review on Steam talking purely about this thread, quoting it and nothing about the game content at all. Thats being political and manipulating the score system. Asking for genuine reviews to drown out your manipulation of the review system by posting a negative review with no mention of game content is not political.
I already said I posted that review myself. And yes you can count it as a "troll" review because it focuses on the events proceeding here, I basically conceded that a few posts back feel free to read the long post with the 10 most popular reviews (at that time).
As for it being politically manipulative, only in the sense that it denounces political manipulation and non-compliance with Steam's Terms of Service as previously mentioned. Feel free to report my review, I have no problem with it being taken down as long as Beamdog is also reprimanded for their behavior, it would be fair for all involved.
Comments
I am always amused when SJWs cant decide whether GG is the Evil Overlord of the Internet who is lurking behind every keyboard or if its just a "bunch of pathetic man-children who dont have to be your audience anymore".
Also do we actually have ANY proof that GG is behind it?
Do we have any proof that GG is related to it?
Not every negative review has to have anti-LGBT sentiment to be upvoted by people who have anti-LGBT sentiment. Does that not make any sense to anyone?
o3o i woudlnt' know anything about this but isn't this dishonest? like removable from steam dishonest? it is. if they get away with it while others didn't then i must call foul.
also, the bugs are an issue. and that's what everyone is talking about.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937271813341/?tscn=1459713930#p13 god for biid you listen to the very people you're trying to defend.
need i continue?
It says a lot about your obvious agenda and desperation when you need to dig up people's Twitter profile to prove a point.
Oh, and any group with a history of attacking female gamers, writers, and reporters with rape and death threats whenever they even suggest that sexism exists in the medium deserves any negative characterization it receives.
Or don't go through mine and do not address it at all if you don't find that you can, either way is fine really.
Anyway, I'm done discussing this issue personally because it never gets anywhere but making people angry at each other. I've said my piece multiple times and am finished. It makes me sad that after so long waiting for a new Baldur's Gate that the discussion is centered around one irrelevant NPC and a joke line by Minsc and not the awesome gameplay or interesting storyline. Have fun in the infinite loop of this argument everyone.
the only solution for me is this. http://i.imgur.com/LlKpa73.png?1 i'll be removing all the stuff i have. buying the originals and never doing business with beam dog ever again.
The smart thing to do would be to FIX THE GAME and remove the content that does not fit with the world / story that already existed and resulted in countless awards for the Baldur's Gate series. But the last two years have shown that when it comes to pushing the SJW agenda, when things go badly people like you always double down and push your agenda even further. I've been a fan of Baldur's Gate since it originally came out, it was the game that got me into roleplaying games and I was eagerly awaiting this expansion after learning it was in the works around a year ago. However, I will not buy it as long as it is written to ruin two characters and destroy the immersion by putting modern politics into Faerun. It has nothing to do with hating anyone and everything to do with wanting a CONSISTENT story that fits the in-game universe.
Oh, another thing about that interview Amber gave - it was really dumb of her to admit that Beamdog won't make original content because it would be "too much effort" to do something unique.
I've seen the dialogue, it doesn't seem out of place compared to the other references Original BG had, to be honest.
EDIT: But don't we have the other side of the coin shown here, where people are demonizing the NPC in question to the point Belhifet looks like an Aasimar next to it?
I for one was very much on the fence whether I wanted to buy the game or not. I
havehad concerns about the past quality of writing combined with the poorly written scene(s) everyone is talking about. And yes, I do feel that transgender cleric (or w/e it is) is shoehorned into the game - and in a very poor fashion at that. That combined with Beamdog apparently thinking Baldurs gate is a sexist game, without apparently having the mental faculties to distinguish between a theme in a game and reality, is really concerning to me.Now if those instances of forcing a specific political agenda down my throat were few and far between, I would've bought the game without a doubt - and how hard would that have really been to get across to those of us who wanted to buy this game? This comments however shows that my concerns are nothing more than a bigoted childish tantrum to you, that isn't even worth addressing
If you truly think that everyone who has concerns about a political agenda being shoved down their throat is some kind of childish evil racist and sexist, all the power to you. Just don't expect me to buy your game anymore.
Asides from that I don't really understand how sex is "a must in new games" mainly because this is mostly not a new game at all, in fact it came out 18 years ago and this is supposed to be additional content for that same game. And even conceding this is somehow "a new game" I still don't see how sex is a must in new games. Did I miss something here? Do we have to force game writers to conform to this?
Or perhaps you just find it distasteful if a game doesn't focuses or touches up on sex and sexual identity? Hey perhaps there's a significant portion of the gaming community that agrees with you, but for the most part I think that people interested in playing new content for a game created in 1998 are probably from a different era altogether: people in their 30s or 40s who mostly enjoyed a fantasy RPG about fighting creatures including dragons in various dungeons. But hey that's just my 2 cents.
I digress, there is no call for me to get frustrated. The fact of the matter, @Totenglocke , is that there is nothing to remove, and no issues addressed with the character. She is not being oppressed, she is just there. There is nothing to be done regarding her gender, and really? In the time spend whining about this, this is a simple enough issue that a mod could have fixed it for those self-proclaimed 'fans' that are infuriated over this. If you expect it to be 'official' rather than done at the hand of a fan, A.) you're being nonsensical and B.) I doubt you're as devout a fan as you claim, in which case I wonder - why are two blocks of dialogue, less than 1% of dialogue in the game, such a problem?
So you admit that you don't even own the game, much less played it, then proclaim that the trans NPC is being "shoehorned in"? The mental gymnastics is strong with this one.
I certainly think that, mostly because the fact that you always complain about having the agenda "shoved down your throat" reveals just about everything I could ever need to know. Have your been to a movie the last 20 years, watched a television show, been anywhere in public??
Jokes aside, this entire conversation is baffling me so much I'm genuinely questioning some of the people, who play this game.
@OsoTWearbear Genuine question - why would you ask for that? What's the point?
Its funny how you are on the side of "everything is political" but if that stance is criticized and people outright tell you on steam or here why they dont want any gender-politics in their hobby you claim they are offended and not you.
Like, through how many mental hoops did you have to jump to arrive to that conclusion. There are well-thought out explanations as to why people are bothered by it and why they criticize the writer and all you could come up with was HURR DURR U MUST BE ALL OFFENDED.
I legitimately cant tell if you are trolling or just projecting that hard.
As for it being politically manipulative, only in the sense that it denounces political manipulation and non-compliance with Steam's Terms of Service as previously mentioned. Feel free to report my review, I have no problem with it being taken down as long as Beamdog is also reprimanded for their behavior, it would be fair for all involved.