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  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.

    InsultionQbert
  • FoggyFoggy Member Posts: 297
    edited April 2016
    Sad thing that the expansion will be remembered as a battlefield for a SJW vs GG war. You've seen it, game content and bugs be damned, it's either mass down-voting or 0 reviews take your pick. I still think Minsc line was both provoking gg and basically asking for it, while also in poor form towards core base players. But while real fans can see past it, it seems the loud minority brought their friends and is not a minority after all, and this could go on indefinitely but with one side with no care in the world while the other with high stakes losing for now, and damage control becoming a necessity. The shitstorm is real and Beamdog PR underestimated it and forgot their umbrellas. It could have been handled better, but things escalated quickly and spiraled out of control.

    VyrulissejankielRedKnightQbert
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.

    VyrulisseKrotos
  • enneractenneract Member Posts: 187
    edited April 2016
    Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.

    One of my main hobbies is running a club. We play games, and lots of us have different opinions about lots of things. Religion, politics, etc. I disagree with many of them, but because I am interested in keeping my club running (along with being a generally decent human being), I don't make a point to make snide comments about those disagreements whenever possible.

    It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong. I'd love to debate you about it, as a person. It isn't OK for you to use a beloved character to attack your target audience - gamers. This would be like me using my position as a leader of my club to attack people for being nerds.

    The quality of the writing in SoD is not up to par with the rest of the BG series. It is better than the novels. It would be playable, and I enjoyed it for the nostalgia and the dearth of options in the genre in general (isomorphic party-based RPGs)... until you decided that Minsc should attack me for not crucifying myself for the audacity of having a hobby that I enjoyed enough to consider part of my core identity - the very hobby that led me to spend money on a DLC to an ancient video game.

    I hope it was worth it, to get a little dig in, @Amber_Scott. You've converted someone who would buy anything you'd make (even if it was objectively bad, probably!) into someone who will never buy another product from you again.

    RedKnightInsultionGodKaiserHellZaphas86
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Ratcliff said:

    Foggy said:


    Beamdog didn't do a damn thing to invite this or deserve it. They didn't drag Baldur's Gate into anything. This is a Gamergate related conspiracy that is the result of a perpetually aggrieved group of people fishing for literally ANYTHING they can hook onto and create a nonsense fiasco over. And they don't really give a hot damn who it affects in real life, because real life doesn't matter to them. The entire Gamergate phenomena is an extension of their artificial life online that has next to zero bearing on any real-world issue. It is, to put it in terms everyone can understand, a bunch of people acting like assholes because they enjoy doing so. It's fun for them....

    I gotta challenge you on this statement.

    Beamdog literally had one of gaming's most beloved characters mock Gamergate's slogan. For no reason other than to do so.

    Beamdog absolutely invited this. (Which is their prerogative)

    They can stand behind it if they want, but they can't complain about this backlash. They picked this fight. And we are all stuck in the middle.
    If you wear a political T-shirt and someone beats you half to death for wearing it, did you invite that?

    No. You maybe invited some snark or a dirty look, but not an overblown attempt to destroy you. That's what's happening here with the review bombing. If you guys are so fragile and thin skinned that you would attempt to sink a game's release because of a tongue-in-cheek Easter egg jab, then it's you who has the problem, not Beamdog.

  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
    I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.

    Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.




    FoggyRedKnight
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,094
    Ratcliff said:


    Beamdog didn't do a damn thing to invite this or deserve it. They didn't drag Baldur's Gate into anything. This is a Gamergate related conspiracy that is the result of a perpetually aggrieved group of people fishing for literally ANYTHING they can hook onto and create a nonsense fiasco over. And they don't really give a hot damn who it affects in real life, because real life doesn't matter to them. The entire Gamergate phenomena is an extension of their artificial life online that has next to zero bearing on any real-world issue. It is, to put it in terms everyone can understand, a bunch of people acting like assholes because they enjoy doing so. It's fun for them....

    I gotta challenge you on this statement.

    Beamdog literally had one of gaming's most beloved characters mock Gamergate's slogan. For no reason other than to do so.

    Beamdog absolutely invited this. (Which is their prerogative)

    They can stand behind it if they want, but they can't complain about this backlash. They picked this fight. And we are all stuck in the middle.
    Gamergate deserves to be mocked into oblivion if at all possible....it's a repulsive movement....

    skeptik_59
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    enneract said:

    Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.

    One of my main hobbies is running a club. We play games, and lots of us have different opinions about lots of things. Religion, politics, etc. I disagree with many of them, but because I am interested in keeping my club running (along with being a generally decent human being), I don't make a point to make snide comments about those disagreements whenever possible.

    It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong. I'd love to debate you about it, as a person. It isn't OK for you to use a beloved character to attack your target audience - gamers. This would be like me using my position as a leader of my club to attack people for being nerds.

    The quality of the writing in SoD is not up to par with the rest of the BG series. It is better than the novels. It would be playable, and I enjoyed it for the nostalgia and the dearth of options in the genre in general (isomorphic party-based RPGs)... until you decided that Minsc should attack me for not crucifying myself for the audacity of having a hobby that I enjoyed enough to consider part of my core identity - the very hobby that led me to spend money on a DLC to an ancient video game.

    I hope it was worth it, to get a little dig in, @Amber_Scott. You've converted someone who would buy anything you'd make (even if it was objectively bad, probably!) into someone who will never buy another product from you again.

    Your entire relationship with Baldur's Gate has been destroyed because of one little poke? You guys are like thinly blown glass or something.

    This thread is about a concerted campaign by Gamergate to sink this game and destroy future content for the rest of us. All because of one of two lines of content. If you can't see how absurd and cruel that is, God help you.

  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43

    Ratcliff said:


    Beamdog didn't do a damn thing to invite this or deserve it. They didn't drag Baldur's Gate into anything. This is a Gamergate related conspiracy that is the result of a perpetually aggrieved group of people fishing for literally ANYTHING they can hook onto and create a nonsense fiasco over. And they don't really give a hot damn who it affects in real life, because real life doesn't matter to them. The entire Gamergate phenomena is an extension of their artificial life online that has next to zero bearing on any real-world issue. It is, to put it in terms everyone can understand, a bunch of people acting like assholes because they enjoy doing so. It's fun for them....

    I gotta challenge you on this statement.

    Beamdog literally had one of gaming's most beloved characters mock Gamergate's slogan. For no reason other than to do so.

    Beamdog absolutely invited this. (Which is their prerogative)

    They can stand behind it if they want, but they can't complain about this backlash. They picked this fight. And we are all stuck in the middle.
    Gamergate deserves to be mocked into oblivion if at all possible....it's a repulsive movement....
    And you are free to hold that position; a lot of people agree with you. Clearly Beamdog agrees with you.

    And they *do* agree with you. but like it or not, GG'ers are customers too, with money and opinions and reviews to give and everything.

    What beamdog should have done was just left it alone and made a game.

    enneractRedKnight
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
    I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.

    Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.




    No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.

  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
    I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.

    Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.




    No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
    Are you telling me a joke that you didn't know would offend me? Or a joke that you *knew* would offend me?

    Beamdog made a joke they knew would offend.

    enneract
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
    I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.

    Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.




    No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
    Are you telling me a joke that you didn't know would offend me? Or a joke that you *knew* would offend me?

    Beamdog made a joke they knew would offend.
    It shouldn't matter, because no one should be so offended by a throwaway joke line that they embark on an epic campaign to destroy a developer. It's absurd.

    And to your question, no. If I call an overweight guy "tubby," he doesn't have a right to try and eviscerate me for it. Are you really trying to justify this garbage? Does one joke warrant ALL THIS?

    Just because you think one line in the game was offensive doesn't mean you have to continually defend an overblown and hate-fueled effort to deny fans future content from this developer. You can dislike the content AND have standards.

  • enneractenneract Member Posts: 187
    Purudaya said:

    enneract said:

    Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.

    One of my main hobbies is running a club. We play games, and lots of us have different opinions about lots of things. Religion, politics, etc. I disagree with many of them, but because I am interested in keeping my club running (along with being a generally decent human being), I don't make a point to make snide comments about those disagreements whenever possible.

    It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong. I'd love to debate you about it, as a person. It isn't OK for you to use a beloved character to attack your target audience - gamers. This would be like me using my position as a leader of my club to attack people for being nerds.

    The quality of the writing in SoD is not up to par with the rest of the BG series. It is better than the novels. It would be playable, and I enjoyed it for the nostalgia and the dearth of options in the genre in general (isomorphic party-based RPGs)... until you decided that Minsc should attack me for not crucifying myself for the audacity of having a hobby that I enjoyed enough to consider part of my core identity - the very hobby that led me to spend money on a DLC to an ancient video game.

    I hope it was worth it, to get a little dig in, @Amber_Scott. You've converted someone who would buy anything you'd make (even if it was objectively bad, probably!) into someone who will never buy another product from you again.

    Your entire relationship with Baldur's Gate has been destroyed because of one little poke? You guys are like thinly blown glass or something.

    This thread is about a concerted campaign by Gamergate to sink this game and destroy future content for the rest of us. All because of one of two lines of content. If you can't see how absurd and cruel that is, God help you.
    No. My relationship with Beamdog has been destroyed. I will always love and enjoy Baldur's Gate, I just won't enjoy the non-canon fan expansion to it that happened to be published on Steam, nor any of their future projects.

  • FoggyFoggy Member Posts: 297
    edited April 2016



    Gamergate deserves to be mocked into oblivion if at all possible....it's a repulsive movement....


    You know they can argue exactly the same thing about SJW right? The issue here is about one group unnecessarily provoking the other while expecting them to eat shit if they don't like it. Well they didn't like it, not one bit, and backlashed with an out of proportions reaction for which we as BG players who only want to play a great game have to pay the price. It's all a logical turn of event really, choices provoke consequences.

    I'll give you a RL example. Myself as a jewish have no lost love for certain people who in turn won't send me chocolates on my birthday. But as it happens I work 6 months a year in a North African country, so I won't go out of my way to provoke the same people who put bread on my table because some of them are allegedly scum and evil. Then I'm safe, I'm happy and can live in relative harmony without them going Allah Akbar on my ass. One must learn to be professional and keep ideology out of the way when business is involved, even with no love lost between 2 entities, because bad shit happens and can happen easily you know.

    booinyoureyesinethQbert
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    enneract said:

    Purudaya said:

    enneract said:

    Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.

    One of my main hobbies is running a club. We play games, and lots of us have different opinions about lots of things. Religion, politics, etc. I disagree with many of them, but because I am interested in keeping my club running (along with being a generally decent human being), I don't make a point to make snide comments about those disagreements whenever possible.

    It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong. I'd love to debate you about it, as a person. It isn't OK for you to use a beloved character to attack your target audience - gamers. This would be like me using my position as a leader of my club to attack people for being nerds.

    The quality of the writing in SoD is not up to par with the rest of the BG series. It is better than the novels. It would be playable, and I enjoyed it for the nostalgia and the dearth of options in the genre in general (isomorphic party-based RPGs)... until you decided that Minsc should attack me for not crucifying myself for the audacity of having a hobby that I enjoyed enough to consider part of my core identity - the very hobby that led me to spend money on a DLC to an ancient video game.

    I hope it was worth it, to get a little dig in, @Amber_Scott. You've converted someone who would buy anything you'd make (even if it was objectively bad, probably!) into someone who will never buy another product from you again.

    Your entire relationship with Baldur's Gate has been destroyed because of one little poke? You guys are like thinly blown glass or something.

    This thread is about a concerted campaign by Gamergate to sink this game and destroy future content for the rest of us. All because of one of two lines of content. If you can't see how absurd and cruel that is, God help you.
    No. My relationship with Beamdog has been destroyed. I will always love and enjoy Baldur's Gate, I just won't enjoy the non-canon fan expansion to it that happened to be published on Steam, nor any of their future projects.
    Fine by me. Hopefully you won't try and ruin it for those who did enjoy it.

    Oh, and SoD is canon, by the way. Wizards of the Coast has signed off on it, so if you want to wage war on someone that's a good place to start. I'm sure they'll take you very seriously.

    VyrulisseKrotospeko
  • enneractenneract Member Posts: 187
    Purudaya said:

    enneract said:

    Purudaya said:

    enneract said:

    Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.

    One of my main hobbies is running a club. We play games, and lots of us have different opinions about lots of things. Religion, politics, etc. I disagree with many of them, but because I am interested in keeping my club running (along with being a generally decent human being), I don't make a point to make snide comments about those disagreements whenever possible.

    It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong. I'd love to debate you about it, as a person. It isn't OK for you to use a beloved character to attack your target audience - gamers. This would be like me using my position as a leader of my club to attack people for being nerds.

    The quality of the writing in SoD is not up to par with the rest of the BG series. It is better than the novels. It would be playable, and I enjoyed it for the nostalgia and the dearth of options in the genre in general (isomorphic party-based RPGs)... until you decided that Minsc should attack me for not crucifying myself for the audacity of having a hobby that I enjoyed enough to consider part of my core identity - the very hobby that led me to spend money on a DLC to an ancient video game.

    I hope it was worth it, to get a little dig in, @Amber_Scott. You've converted someone who would buy anything you'd make (even if it was objectively bad, probably!) into someone who will never buy another product from you again.

    Your entire relationship with Baldur's Gate has been destroyed because of one little poke? You guys are like thinly blown glass or something.

    This thread is about a concerted campaign by Gamergate to sink this game and destroy future content for the rest of us. All because of one of two lines of content. If you can't see how absurd and cruel that is, God help you.
    No. My relationship with Beamdog has been destroyed. I will always love and enjoy Baldur's Gate, I just won't enjoy the non-canon fan expansion to it that happened to be published on Steam, nor any of their future projects.
    Fine by me. Hopefully you won't try and ruin it for those who did enjoy it.

    Oh, and SoD is canon, by the way. Wizards of the Coast has signed off on it, so if you want to wage war on someone that's a good place to start. I'm sure they'll take you very seriously.
    A consumer expressing their dissatisfaction with a product is not 'ruining it for you'.

  • VyrulisseVyrulisse Member Posts: 108
    enneract said:

    Purudaya said:

    enneract said:

    Purudaya said:

    enneract said:

    Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.

    One of my main hobbies is running a club. We play games, and lots of us have different opinions about lots of things. Religion, politics, etc. I disagree with many of them, but because I am interested in keeping my club running (along with being a generally decent human being), I don't make a point to make snide comments about those disagreements whenever possible.

    It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong. I'd love to debate you about it, as a person. It isn't OK for you to use a beloved character to attack your target audience - gamers. This would be like me using my position as a leader of my club to attack people for being nerds.

    The quality of the writing in SoD is not up to par with the rest of the BG series. It is better than the novels. It would be playable, and I enjoyed it for the nostalgia and the dearth of options in the genre in general (isomorphic party-based RPGs)... until you decided that Minsc should attack me for not crucifying myself for the audacity of having a hobby that I enjoyed enough to consider part of my core identity - the very hobby that led me to spend money on a DLC to an ancient video game.

    I hope it was worth it, to get a little dig in, @Amber_Scott. You've converted someone who would buy anything you'd make (even if it was objectively bad, probably!) into someone who will never buy another product from you again.

    Your entire relationship with Baldur's Gate has been destroyed because of one little poke? You guys are like thinly blown glass or something.

    This thread is about a concerted campaign by Gamergate to sink this game and destroy future content for the rest of us. All because of one of two lines of content. If you can't see how absurd and cruel that is, God help you.
    No. My relationship with Beamdog has been destroyed. I will always love and enjoy Baldur's Gate, I just won't enjoy the non-canon fan expansion to it that happened to be published on Steam, nor any of their future projects.
    Fine by me. Hopefully you won't try and ruin it for those who did enjoy it.

    Oh, and SoD is canon, by the way. Wizards of the Coast has signed off on it, so if you want to wage war on someone that's a good place to start. I'm sure they'll take you very seriously.
    A consumer expressing their dissatisfaction with a product is not 'ruining it for you'.
    This is more than a "consumer expressing their dissatisfaction" and you know it. It's been explained just what is happening in previous posts.

  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
    I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.

    Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.




    No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
    Are you telling me a joke that you didn't know would offend me? Or a joke that you *knew* would offend me?

    Beamdog made a joke they knew would offend.
    It shouldn't matter, because no one should be so offended by a throwaway joke line that they embark on an epic campaign to destroy a developer. It's absurd.

    And to your question, no. If I call an overweight guy "tubby," he doesn't have a right to try and eviscerate me for it. Are you really trying to justify this garbage? Does one joke warrant ALL THIS?

    Just because you think one line in the game was offensive doesn't mean you have to continually defend an overblown and hate-fueled effort to deny fans future content from this developer. You can dislike the content AND have standards.
    It seems like your passion is coming from a place of "Beamdog might be in trouble as a company because of this".

    Well let me thank you for that, I love Baldur's gate and I'm glad that got updated.

    But I gotta challenge you on some points.

    "No one should be so offended by a throwaway joke that they embark on a campagin"

    I don't think you can make that call my man, only people can decide what offends them and what they do about it. It might not be a big deal to you, but you can't speak for other people.

    "And to your question, no. If I call an overweight guy "tubby," he doesn't have a right to try and eviscerate me for it. Are you really trying to justify this garbage? Does one joke warrant ALL THIS? "

    Do you mean eviscerate as a metaphor? Or do you mean actually kill you?
    If you mean it as a metaphor for "fight back overwhelmingly" I would say that yeah, he does have that right.

    If you mean it as "if I punch someone, they don't have the right to stab me with a knife" Then I agree with you, unfortunately Beamdog isn't a person who is being murdered. Companies go under all the time for PR reasons. I don't like it, but as I have said many times, Beamdog stepped into this dogshit willingly, I really wish they hadn't.

    "You can dislike the content AND have standards"
    I agree with you 100%. I hope both sided will cool off, but I don't think they will.



  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
    I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.

    Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.




    No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
    Are you telling me a joke that you didn't know would offend me? Or a joke that you *knew* would offend me?

    Beamdog made a joke they knew would offend.
    It shouldn't matter, because no one should be so offended by a throwaway joke line that they embark on an epic campaign to destroy a developer. It's absurd.

    And to your question, no. If I call an overweight guy "tubby," he doesn't have a right to try and eviscerate me for it. Are you really trying to justify this garbage? Does one joke warrant ALL THIS?

    Just because you think one line in the game was offensive doesn't mean you have to continually defend an overblown and hate-fueled effort to deny fans future content from this developer. You can dislike the content AND have standards.
    It seems like your passion is coming from a place of "Beamdog might be in trouble as a company because of this".

    Well let me thank you for that, I love Baldur's gate and I'm glad that got updated.

    But I gotta challenge you on some points.

    "No one should be so offended by a throwaway joke that they embark on a campagin"

    I don't think you can make that call my man, only people can decide what offends them and what they do about it. It might not be a big deal to you, but you can't speak for other people.

    "And to your question, no. If I call an overweight guy "tubby," he doesn't have a right to try and eviscerate me for it. Are you really trying to justify this garbage? Does one joke warrant ALL THIS? "

    Do you mean eviscerate as a metaphor? Or do you mean actually kill you?
    If you mean it as a metaphor for "fight back overwhelmingly" I would say that yeah, he does have that right.

    If you mean it as "if I punch someone, they don't have the right to stab me with a knife" Then I agree with you, unfortunately Beamdog isn't a person who is being murdered. Companies go under all the time for PR reasons. I don't like it, but as I have said many times, Beamdog stepped into this dogshit willingly, I really wish they hadn't.

    "You can dislike the content AND have standards"
    I agree with you 100%. I hope both sided will cool off, but I don't think they will.



    Christ, it's like talking to a ****ing wall.

    I'm out. See you later, man.

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    enneract said:

    Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.

    Having Minsc as a role model kind of explains a lot.

  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:

    Ratcliff said:

    Purudaya said:



    See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.

    And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?

    If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.

    You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.

    Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
    If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
    I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.

    Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.




    No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
    Are you telling me a joke that you didn't know would offend me? Or a joke that you *knew* would offend me?

    Beamdog made a joke they knew would offend.
    It shouldn't matter, because no one should be so offended by a throwaway joke line that they embark on an epic campaign to destroy a developer. It's absurd.

    And to your question, no. If I call an overweight guy "tubby," he doesn't have a right to try and eviscerate me for it. Are you really trying to justify this garbage? Does one joke warrant ALL THIS?

    Just because you think one line in the game was offensive doesn't mean you have to continually defend an overblown and hate-fueled effort to deny fans future content from this developer. You can dislike the content AND have standards.
    It seems like your passion is coming from a place of "Beamdog might be in trouble as a company because of this".

    Well let me thank you for that, I love Baldur's gate and I'm glad that got updated.

    But I gotta challenge you on some points.

    "No one should be so offended by a throwaway joke that they embark on a campagin"

    I don't think you can make that call my man, only people can decide what offends them and what they do about it. It might not be a big deal to you, but you can't speak for other people.

    "And to your question, no. If I call an overweight guy "tubby," he doesn't have a right to try and eviscerate me for it. Are you really trying to justify this garbage? Does one joke warrant ALL THIS? "

    Do you mean eviscerate as a metaphor? Or do you mean actually kill you?
    If you mean it as a metaphor for "fight back overwhelmingly" I would say that yeah, he does have that right.

    If you mean it as "if I punch someone, they don't have the right to stab me with a knife" Then I agree with you, unfortunately Beamdog isn't a person who is being murdered. Companies go under all the time for PR reasons. I don't like it, but as I have said many times, Beamdog stepped into this dogshit willingly, I really wish they hadn't.

    "You can dislike the content AND have standards"
    I agree with you 100%. I hope both sided will cool off, but I don't think they will.



    Christ, it's like talking to a ****ing wall.

    I'm out. See you later, man.
    It was going pretty good until you ducked out with an insult.

    But everyone reading this is going to know I won. And now, if you come back, you are going to look weak.

    Better luck next time. And thanks for trying to defend Beamdog, they really, probably are nice people.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,094
    joluv said:

    Ratcliff said:

    But everyone reading this is going to know I won. And now, if you come back, you are going to look weak.

    Huh? Won what? And @Purudaya has been a member of these forums for three years. You joined today to cause trouble. Go away.
    One can only hope that after they've claimed their scalp they'll all just go away. I'm assuming there is another game out there being released soon that might have a gay character in it or that a woman may have had a hand in designing....

    Southpaw
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,539
    edited April 2016
    what is the offensive line from minsc?

    EDIT:

    Nevermind. I looked it up. The line means nothing to me and in game it seems to fit Minsc's personality. I haven't heard phrasing but yeah he's all about adventuring so saying adventuring this way or that way fits. I have no external context hangups with that quote.

    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    enneract said:

    It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong.

    Sorry about that. I was wrong. You don't harass women because you hate them. You harass them because you don't approve of certain things certain women say or do. That makes it all okay, of course. What was I thinking?

    VyrulisseshawneKrotospeko
  • UltraB00nUltraB00n Member Posts: 37
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    It shouldn't matter, because no one should be so offended by a throwaway joke line that they embark on an epic campaign to destroy a developer. It's absurd.

    I guess you missed it when SJWs raised a stink about the "boob plate mail" in Divinity: Original Sin or that idiotic kickstarter backer limmerick in Pillars of Eternity?

    Let's review the SoD mess.

    Amber Scott, a genuine SJW Tumblrina, who is on record saying that shoehorning in "diversity" takes precedence over the perceived quality of the writing, has a nice little chat with Uber-SJW Nathan Grayson over at Kotaku. She decries the "sexism" in Baldur's Gate and the fact that there is humor in the game that is at the expense of female characters. She denounces sultry femme fatale character Safana as a "sex object" and Jaheira as a "nagging wife" and vows to give them a "personality upgrade" in order to bring them in line with "modern" (i.e. feminist and SJW) sensibilities and if the fans don't like it, then that's just too bad for them.

    The game is released and and it's a bug-ridden SJW wankfest. An utterly unfitting and shit written trans NPC who spouts the trans activist party line and seems only to exist for the sake of SJW virtue signalling and the player only gets the option to respond to her story in a positive manner. Then we have the bisexual single mother Corwin who is a walking and talking "strong independent womyn who don't need no man" cliche. Safana, of course, received her personality upgrade and morphed from sultry and seductive to spiteful and sarcastic, i.e. the feminist ideal.

    Also, as Osigold pointed out in a posting in this forum: the men in Baldur's Gate are predominantly portrayed as incompetents, thugs, traitors, dimwits, drunks, lackeys and pests while the women are predominantly portrayed as officers, wizards, businesspeople, and humanitarians. Even in the case of the few villainous females, they're either more competent than the men or quick to secure "victim cred" by claiming some undisclosed but horrific abuse.

    And just to top it off, they turned the universally beloved Minsc into a mouthpiece for an anti-GamerGate jab.

    Unsurprisingly, this whole SJW shitshow explodes into a gigantic shitstorm and, to make matters even worse, Beamdog is obviously staffed by people who are really, really, really bad at PR and suffer from a massive disconnect from the demographic they want to sell their games to. And so the trainweck begins to unfold.

    Trent takes to the forums begging for positive user reviews and then releases a statement to Techraptor that proves he doesn't even understand why people are angry. Dee, on the other hand, goes on a posting and banning spree here and over at the Steam forums and doubles down on the SJW horseshit before running off bawling to Anita Sarkeesian to complain that the Internet is mean to them. The way Beamdog PR keeps pouring gasoline into the fire is quite a sight to behold.

    Post edited by UltraB00n on
    enneract
This discussion has been closed.