"Let's review the SoD mess", he said, and then proceeded to get every single fact wrong through willful misinterpretation. GamerGate in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen - the North Korea of video games.
This thread is thirteen pages long - but I suppose doing your own homework (one might say, investigative journalism) on forums that have dates and times on every single post might be asking too much? Stay ethical.
This thread is thirteen pages long - but I suppose doing your own homework (one might say, investigative journalism) on forums that have dates and times on every single post might be asking too much? Stay ethical.
My friends here are all the facts we need: Baldur's Gate is cool and good. If there is anything we are unhappy with then lets work together positively and constructively to make the game the best it can be instead of tearing it and each other down. Thank you for listening.
Having one of my childhood heroes (Minsc) attack me like that has poisoned any interest I'll ever have in purchasing a Beamdog game.
One of my main hobbies is running a club. We play games, and lots of us have different opinions about lots of things. Religion, politics, etc. I disagree with many of them, but because I am interested in keeping my club running (along with being a generally decent human being), I don't make a point to make snide comments about those disagreements whenever possible.
It's OK that you have the false belief that GamerGate is about harassing women because we hate women. You are allowed to be wrong. I'd love to debate you about it, as a person. It isn't OK for you to use a beloved character to attack your target audience - gamers. This would be like me using my position as a leader of my club to attack people for being nerds.
The quality of the writing in SoD is not up to par with the rest of the BG series. It is better than the novels. It would be playable, and I enjoyed it for the nostalgia and the dearth of options in the genre in general (isomorphic party-based RPGs)... until you decided that Minsc should attack me for not crucifying myself for the audacity of having a hobby that I enjoyed enough to consider part of my core identity - the very hobby that led me to spend money on a DLC to an ancient video game.
I hope it was worth it, to get a little dig in, @Amber_Scott. You've converted someone who would buy anything you'd make (even if it was objectively bad, probably!) into someone who will never buy another product from you again.
Your entire relationship with Baldur's Gate has been destroyed because of one little poke? You guys are like thinly blown glass or something.
This thread is about a concerted campaign by Gamergate to sink this game and destroy future content for the rest of us. All because of one of two lines of content. If you can't see how absurd and cruel that is, God help you.
Its been happening for years now and people are getting sick of it. BG might just be the straw that broke the camel's back you know.
Perhaps if this has been going on for years then at some point it would be best to stop and accept that this is the new world we are all entering together chums and to make the most of it.
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
Why do you have to react at all? Why not simply move on? Not everything needs to be approached as a great battle my friend, no matter how much Tempus wills it.
You know, Minsc's line "Jump on my sword while you can Evil, I won't be as gentle" really upsets me too but I am not going to cathartically expunge my grievances over the internet by ruining the experience of others.
If you legitimately want something to cry about - I am sure there will be something in the future that will rustle your jimmies just so.
On a lighter note - does this forum have an ignore user function - I finally caught up with this thread and there are some unsavoury folk that I could probably do without.
Before this whole 'discussion' started, I was only vaguely aware of Gamergate, and had absolutely no idea what SJW stood for (I had to google it!). I am what you might call 'an occasional gamer', and although I have been a member of this forum for a while, I usually just lurk.
But I love BG, and I love that Beamdog have given me the ability to revisit the series, and I love the fact they are providing new content for the game(s) I love.
And I am apalled by the concerted campaign by some to damage all these things I love, and I am especially apalled by the thought that this concerted campaign might impact upon any future new content.
And to those who continue to say 'Beamdog started all this, Beamdog brought it on themselves', I just shake my head. Beamdog are guilty of many things. Beamdog are guilty of giving me the ability to return to the BG series all these years later. Beamdog are guilty of rekindling my love for the BG series. Beamdog are guilty of creating a lovely forum and community I have been visiting for several years. So people who joined the forum a few days ago can shout as loud as they want about what Beamdog is guilty of.
I know what Beamdog are guilty of. And I thank them for it.
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
Why do you have to react at all? Why not simply move on? Not everything needs to be approached as a great battle my friend, no matter how much Tempus wills it.
Because I have seen SJWs ruin things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now they are infiltrating BG... my favorite game of all time and if they win this war, Baldur's Gate will be dead. It will become a shell of what it once was.
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
Why do you have to react at all? Why not simply move on? Not everything needs to be approached as a great battle my friend, no matter how much Tempus wills it.
Because I have seen SJWs ruin things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now they are infiltrating BG... my favorite game of all time and if they win this war, Baldur's Gate will be dead. It will become a shell of what it once was.
I'm not trying to be dense here friend but could you explain to me in what way things have been "ruined" by "SJWs" or what you fear will happen to Baldur's Gate? I've only come across some fairly inoffensive things in the expansion so far but perhaps I didn't see the right things?
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
Why do you have to react at all? Why not simply move on? Not everything needs to be approached as a great battle my friend, no matter how much Tempus wills it.
Because I have seen SJWs ruin things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now they are infiltrating BG... my favorite game of all time and if they win this war, Baldur's Gate will be dead. It will become a shell of what it once was.
a) Name one thing these 'SJWs' (who at this point, have achieved the status of 'reds under the bed') have ACTUALLY ruined? Like, ruined, as in the dictionary definition of something destroyed beyond repair. b) YOU are the one who will destroy Baldur's Gate in the end, if you don't focus on the merits of the game, and not some TEENSY WEENSY insignificant handful of lines in the game. I was so excited this week to see the discussion of the story, and Caelar, and the awesome twists, and how great it was to hear the voice cast again, and instead people like YOU are flooding this place with vitriol or 'honest and open discussions' that happen to be derailing the entire point of this game, which was a bit of nostalgic entertainment.
That shit is on YOU, my friend, not any 'SJW' fifth columnists.
@Grimo88 It's better to refrain from going personal in your comments.
Everyone, let's not turn this discussion (or any other thread) into personal attacks.
I'm sorry, I'm just hugely upset by this mess. BG literally changed my life. It came to me a formative stage in my life, and in many ways put me on the path I'm on now. It was seminal.
I was openly critical of Beamdog's EE editions, especially the lacklustre NPCS. I am no blind fanboy. But SOD redeemed it all in my eyes. Yeah, there are flaws, but when is the last time you saw this kind of game-design outside of Obsidian, Larian and Wasteland? A couple of lines mean NOTHING in the grand scheme, which is MORE BG. I was so excited to see this forum abuzz with their stories of their playthroughs. And it has just been hijacked, over and over again.
Here is an article on the subject of this whole affair which seems to be written from a fairly objective standpoint. Hopefully some here will find some nuance they may have missed. I did.
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
Why do you have to react at all? Why not simply move on? Not everything needs to be approached as a great battle my friend, no matter how much Tempus wills it.
Because I have seen SJWs ruin things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now they are infiltrating BG... my favorite game of all time and if they win this war, Baldur's Gate will be dead. It will become a shell of what it once was.
I'm not trying to be dense here friend but could you explain to me in what way things have been "ruined" by "SJWs" or what you fear will happen to Baldur's Gate? I've only come across some fairly inoffensive things in the expansion so far but perhaps I didn't see the right things?
Well, how would you feel if one day Beamdog decided to change Minsc into a woman for absolutely no other reason than to push forward their political agenda? They have done that to Thor in the comic industry. Fans of original lost their mind. They said: "Build a new character if you want more female representation in the comic industry, but dont change the existing content." SJWs response was: "People are hating on our new comics because they hate women." People who were misrepresented got pissed and arguing started and now the comic book community is divided.
Now, you might say: "Beamdog would never do that!" But, here is the thing with SJWs. They are never happy! You give them a finger and they will take the hand. Its happened in comics, it happened in every media they touched, its happening in gaming as we speak and they wont rest until they get what they want - which just happens to be completely opposite of what most people want.
That is just one example. I gave more examples in my long post earlier and I dont feel like repeating myself. Go read it.
And to those who continue to say 'Beamdog started all this, Beamdog brought it on themselves', I just shake my head.
That would be me, I guess. Though not in the meaning you put it on - I still think you do not need a politically correct excuse to flesh out a character (and let's face it, BG1 characters were not the deepest multidimensional things out there, non of them, you would not have that many mods to expand their dialogs otherwise).
But what GGers did is a borderline criminal offense. I would really like it if developers (of many different games) begin to think before talking. And patiently waiting when "internet mobbing" will be recognized as a crime in digital world with appropriate punishment.
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
Why do you have to react at all? Why not simply move on? Not everything needs to be approached as a great battle my friend, no matter how much Tempus wills it.
Because I have seen SJWs ruin things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now they are infiltrating BG... my favorite game of all time and if they win this war, Baldur's Gate will be dead. It will become a shell of what it once was.
a) Name one thing these 'SJWs' (who at this point, have achieved the status of 'reds under the bed') have ACTUALLY ruined? Like, ruined, as in the dictionary definition of something destroyed beyond repair. b) YOU are the one who will destroy Baldur's Gate in the end, if you don't focus on the merits of the game, and not some TEENSY WEENSY insignificant handful of lines in the game. I was so excited this week to see the discussion of the story, and Caelar, and the awesome twists, and how great it was to hear the voice cast again, and instead people like YOU are flooding this place with vitriol or 'honest and open discussions' that happen to be derailing the entire point of this game, which was a bit of nostalgic entertainment.
That shit is on YOU, my friend, not any 'SJW' fifth columnists.
I already gave examples, but as usual you chose to ignore those and run with your predefined view. Have you heard about the Thor controversy in the comic book industry, when SJWs changed Thor into a woman for no other reason than to push their political agenda?
This is what will happen to gaming if people allow it. I dont have anything against female characters in comic books or gaming. Some of my favorite characters are female, but why cant SJWs just create new content instead of changing what other people created?
And if you think this will not happen in the gaming industry, well you are wrong. There is already a SJW push to change Link from Zelda game into a female, and hundreds of other examples. I already mentioned some, so why dont you go and read it?
And to those who continue to say 'Beamdog started all this, Beamdog brought it on themselves', I just shake my head.
That would be me, I guess. Though not in the meaning you put it on - I still think you do not need a politically correct excuse to flesh out a character (and let's face it, BG1 characters were not the deepest multidimensional things out there, non of them, you would not have that many mods to expand their dialogs otherwise).
But what GGers did is a borderline criminal offense. I would really like it if developers (of many different games) begin to think before talking. And patiently waiting when "internet mobbing" will be recognized as a crime in digital world with appropriate punishment.
What did they do that is illegal? Oh my god! They said they didnt like the game. Here it is again! Censor the internet! Dont allow people to post their opinions! Wow... its like I am living in Orwell's 1984 or something.
Well, how would you feel if one day Beamdog decided to change Minsc into a woman for absolutely no other reason than to push forward their political agenda?
Let's assume they did... what kind of political agenda would that be?
See... this is where I have trouble following people. I see offensive things in videogames, books, movies, etc. all the time. Just recently I played a mediocre game called "Remember Me" and thought the first chapter's depiction of the female protagonist was an objectifying one.
And you know what I did? Nothing. I rolled my eyes at the content I found disagreeable and I evaluated the rest of the game on its merits. It would never have occurred to me to leave a 0 review or wage war on the developers, because they're just *people* who made some content that wasn't to my taste. Could you imagine if everyone responded to content they didn't like by trying to run its creator of of business?
If you think the backlash to this has been overblown, I would encourage you to do the right thing and stand up against these people even if you happen to agree with them: write an honest review that evaluates the game on the other 99.99% of its content, even if it's negative. There's right and there's wrong no matter which side of the fence you're on.
You know the GGer's would say that the SJW's ruin stuff they like all the time? Both sides make good points, and both sides really suck.
Beamdog, to their shame, should have never needled the beast. Baldur's Gate is the thing that's going to suffer.
If you have experienced having your game ruined because an angry group of people who have never played the game didn't like some small thing that was in it.........then you shouldn't be condoning that behavior now either. It's fundamentally wrong to try and destroy someone else's experience because you don't like a tiny part of what's in it. It's wrong when other people do it and it's wrong now.
I don't condone it. But it goes both ways. Beamdog started this. A lot of GG'er had their experienced ruined. And saying it's a small thing is subjective. Clearly it's not small to a lot of people.
Beamdog should have never gotten involved. I blame them. GG'ers and SJW's just gonna do what they do.
No, it doesn't go both ways. If I tell you a joke that offends you, it's ON YOU if you overreact and try to kill me over it.
Nobody is killing anyone. That is a terrible analogy. Beamdog hit the GG community in such a way that they felt the sting. The only way GG can return the favor so that Beamdog can feel the sting is by what they are doing right now. I dont like it, since I want BG to sell well, but I understand GG reaction. And believe me it is mild in comparison to what SJWs have been pulling.
Why do you have to react at all? Why not simply move on? Not everything needs to be approached as a great battle my friend, no matter how much Tempus wills it.
Because I have seen SJWs ruin things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Now they are infiltrating BG... my favorite game of all time and if they win this war, Baldur's Gate will be dead. It will become a shell of what it once was.
I'm not trying to be dense here friend but could you explain to me in what way things have been "ruined" by "SJWs" or what you fear will happen to Baldur's Gate? I've only come across some fairly inoffensive things in the expansion so far but perhaps I didn't see the right things?
Well, how would you feel if one day Beamdog decided to change Minsc into a woman for absolutely no other reason than to push forward their political agenda? They have done that to Thor in the comic industry. Fans of original lost their mind. They said: "Build a new character if you want more female representation in the comic industry, but dont change the existing content." SJWs response was: "People are hating on our new comics because they hate women." People who were misrepresented got pissed and arguing started and now the comic book community is divided.
Now, you might say: "Beamdog would never do that!" But, here is the thing with SJWs. They are never happy! You give them a finger and they will take the hand. Its happened in comics, it happened in every media they touched, its happening in gaming as we speak and they wont rest until they get what they want - which just happens to be completely opposite of what most people want.
That is just one example. I gave more examples in my long post earlier and I dont feel like repeating myself. Go read it.
Your example sucks, because Thor isn't a woman in the comics. They didn't magically gender-bend Thor. He was unworthy of the hammer, so it abandoned him for a beloved female character fully entrenched in the mythos of Thor. This is in no way PERMANENT. A few years back Batman died and Dick became Batman, and no one made this kind of hullaballoo, but they do when they're female. THIS is why people see this criticism as SEXIST. When Spidey was replaced by Doc Ock, people rightly lost their shit because it was a bad guy taking over a beloved character. People lost their shit because the hammer of Thor went to a woman FOR A TEMPORARY STORYLINE. That's sexist, end of story.
If the made Minsc a trans person or a woman or something, hey, I'd probably be right here with you saying how stupid Beamdog are. But they didn't do anything of the sort. They haven't ruined a thing.
Well, how would you feel if one day Beamdog decided to change Minsc into a woman for absolutely no other reason than to push forward their political agenda?
Let's assume they did... what kind of political agenda would that be?
More female representation in the games we play. That was the excuse they used for changing Thor into a woman. Now they are pushing to change Link into a girl. There was also a push to change Samus from Metroid prime into a transgender person. Cant you see how pushing politics into art is NOT A GOOD IDEA?!
I am all for female representations in gaming! I am all for transgender representations in gaming, but do that by creating new content. I am not saying Beamdog is guilty of these things, but the way that Kotaku interview came off it sounded like Amber Scott wanted to change Jaheira and Safana to make them more politically correct. And of course people who disagree with this SJW narrative flipped their shit after reading that interview. I dont understand what is so difficult to understand here.
Well, how would you feel if one day Beamdog decided to change Minsc into a woman for absolutely no other reason than to push forward their political agenda?
Let's assume they did... what kind of political agenda would that be?
More female representation in the games we play. That was the excuse they used for changing Thor into a woman.
What has Thor's gender, or something that (as far as I can tell) hasn't yet happened to Link (whoever they are) from Zelda (whoever they are), got to do with Beamdog or Siege of Dragonspear? Who on earth is Samus?
This thread is about a concerted campaign to discredit and undermine Siege of Dragonspear. I don't care if Thor is a man or a woman. What I care about is the current no-reload playthrough of BGEE I am playing, before I move seemlessly onto SoD, with the mud still fresh on my boots and the blood still wet on my blade! And thats why I am grateful to Beamdog, cus thats what thay have given me.
Well, how would you feel if one day Beamdog decided to change Minsc into a woman for absolutely no other reason than to push forward their political agenda?
Let's assume they did... what kind of political agenda would that be?
More female representation in the games we play. That was the excuse they used for changing Thor into a woman. Now they are pushing to change Link into a girl. There was also a push to change Samus from Metroid prime into a transgender person.
Link isn't being made a girl. There is a girl VERSION of Link now. In a mythology that consists of multiple Links, on multiple timelines, in multiple realities, it is in no way out of place. Again, if Link was made into a Goron for one game, no one would care. But because it is a chick, sexist people complain. It's that simple.
Well, how would you feel if one day Beamdog decided to change Minsc into a woman for absolutely no other reason than to push forward their political agenda?
Let's assume they did... what kind of political agenda would that be?
More female representation in the games we play. That was the excuse they used for changing Thor into a woman.
That sounds like a good thing to me friend.
Yes, I absolutely agree. I also want more female representations in the games we are playing. The goal is not an issue. The problem is how do you get to that goal? Do you get there by changing existing characters into females, which is bound to rub some people off the wrong way, or do you do it by creating new content. GGers like me want new content! SJWs want to change existing characters into women. Dont you see how this might be a problem???
Yes, I absolutely agree. I also want more female representations in the games we are playing. The goal is not an issue. The problem is how do you get to that goal? Do you get there by changing existing characters into females, which is bound to rub some people off the wrong way, or do you do it by creating new content. GGers like me want new content! SJWs want to change existing characters into women. Dont you see how this might be a problem???
Oh I think pretty much everyone here gets your concern. We're just wondering what you are doing HERE since nothing has really changed in BG...
Comments
If you legitimately want something to cry about - I am sure there will be something in the future that will rustle your jimmies just so.
On a lighter note - does this forum have an ignore user function - I finally caught up with this thread and there are some unsavoury folk that I could probably do without.
But I love BG, and I love that Beamdog have given me the ability to revisit the series, and I love the fact they are providing new content for the game(s) I love.
And I am apalled by the concerted campaign by some to damage all these things I love, and I am especially apalled by the thought that this concerted campaign might impact upon any future new content.
And to those who continue to say 'Beamdog started all this, Beamdog brought it on themselves', I just shake my head. Beamdog are guilty of many things. Beamdog are guilty of giving me the ability to return to the BG series all these years later. Beamdog are guilty of rekindling my love for the BG series. Beamdog are guilty of creating a lovely forum and community I have been visiting for several years. So people who joined the forum a few days ago can shout as loud as they want about what Beamdog is guilty of.
I know what Beamdog are guilty of. And I thank them for it.
b) YOU are the one who will destroy Baldur's Gate in the end, if you don't focus on the merits of the game, and not some TEENSY WEENSY insignificant handful of lines in the game. I was so excited this week to see the discussion of the story, and Caelar, and the awesome twists, and how great it was to hear the voice cast again, and instead people like YOU are flooding this place with vitriol or 'honest and open discussions' that happen to be derailing the entire point of this game, which was a bit of nostalgic entertainment.
That shit is on YOU, my friend, not any 'SJW' fifth columnists.
Everyone, let's not turn this discussion (or any other thread) into personal attacks.
I was openly critical of Beamdog's EE editions, especially the lacklustre NPCS. I am no blind fanboy. But SOD redeemed it all in my eyes. Yeah, there are flaws, but when is the last time you saw this kind of game-design outside of Obsidian, Larian and Wasteland? A couple of lines mean NOTHING in the grand scheme, which is MORE BG. I was so excited to see this forum abuzz with their stories of their playthroughs. And it has just been hijacked, over and over again.
Now, you might say: "Beamdog would never do that!" But, here is the thing with SJWs. They are never happy! You give them a finger and they will take the hand. Its happened in comics, it happened in every media they touched, its happening in gaming as we speak and they wont rest until they get what they want - which just happens to be completely opposite of what most people want.
That is just one example. I gave more examples in my long post earlier and I dont feel like repeating myself. Go read it.
But what GGers did is a borderline criminal offense. I would really like it if developers (of many different games) begin to think before talking. And patiently waiting when "internet mobbing" will be recognized as a crime in digital world with appropriate punishment.
This is what will happen to gaming if people allow it. I dont have anything against female characters in comic books or gaming. Some of my favorite characters are female, but why cant SJWs just create new content instead of changing what other people created?
And if you think this will not happen in the gaming industry, well you are wrong. There is already a SJW push to change Link from Zelda game into a female, and hundreds of other examples. I already mentioned some, so why dont you go and read it?
If the made Minsc a trans person or a woman or something, hey, I'd probably be right here with you saying how stupid Beamdog are. But they didn't do anything of the sort. They haven't ruined a thing.
I am all for female representations in gaming! I am all for transgender representations in gaming, but do that by creating new content. I am not saying Beamdog is guilty of these things, but the way that Kotaku interview came off it sounded like Amber Scott wanted to change Jaheira and Safana to make them more politically correct. And of course people who disagree with this SJW narrative flipped their shit after reading that interview. I dont understand what is so difficult to understand here.
This thread is about a concerted campaign to discredit and undermine Siege of Dragonspear. I don't care if Thor is a man or a woman. What I care about is the current no-reload playthrough of BGEE I am playing, before I move seemlessly onto SoD, with the mud still fresh on my boots and the blood still wet on my blade! And thats why I am grateful to Beamdog, cus thats what thay have given me.