Then they will complain that they didn't get their favourite characters back.
People will complain whatever you do, so you should do whatever the hell you want.
If you make new characters, then you can sit there and say, "Well, we felt new characters were a better option. It's been 250 years; the original characters are doing other things." -- which is essentially a "too bad, so sad" response. Then, those idiots would stfu generally.
Then they will complain that they didn't get their favourite characters back.
People will complain whatever you do, so you should do whatever the hell you want.
If you make new characters, then you can sit there and say, "Well, we felt new characters were a better option. It's been 250 years; the original characters are doing other things." -- which is essentially a "too bad, so sad" response. Then, those idiots would stfu generally.
If you think anything would get idiots to "stfu" you don't know much about idiots.
There would obviously be mostly new characters, but having one or two returnees would be good for continuity.
looking at the whole safana thing just reeks of hypocrisy. if a modder had made a mod to have her in bg2 and expanded her character [ like xan and kivan} no one would have complained but because beamdog did it it's the end of the world.
What was the removed line Minsc spoke? Can someone qoute him?
"Actually, it is about ethics in heroic adventuring."
Which you would have to be completely deranged to find offensive.
I don't think anyone found it offensive. It is just the fact that Minsc says it. The one character in the game that doesn't have a hint of a bad bone in him.
+ it brings real world "politics\drama" into the game.
looking at the whole safana thing just reeks of hypocrisy. if a modder had made a mod to have her in bg2 and expanded her character [ like xan and kivan} no one would have complained but because beamdog did it it's the end of the world.
Agreed. But you're always going to have that. When Bioware expanded characters in Mass Effect 2 (because several of the characters carried over from 1), people complained. When they did the same thing in 3 (again, characters carried over from 2), people complained. People will always complain, so you might as well make new characters and give them less reason to complain.
fun fact i prefer garrus's characterization in 2 and 3 much more then 1.
I liked Garrus in all, and Tali just got better and better. Wasn't a fan of what they did with Liara though. Going from the sweet, shy, nerdy girl with no social skills in 1, to a manipulative super spy with an absurd boob job in 3. Seemed like a huge stretch.
What was the removed line Minsc spoke? Can someone qoute him?
"Actually, it is about ethics in heroic adventuring."
Which you would have to be completely deranged to find offensive.
I don't think anyone found it offensive. It is just the fact that Minsc says it. The one character in the game that doesn't have a hint of a bad bone in him.
So it's impossible for good people to talk about ethics?!
+ it brings real world "politics\drama" into the game.
Because it's impossible for fictional characters to discuss ethics?
I think the thing with that line was not the words used in it, including the word "ethics", but rather the context of the modern world, where this exact combination of words looked similar to an infamous phrase.
But this thing was discussed many times already on this forum, so really it's better not to go that route again, for the Xth time.
I think the thing with that line was not the words used in it, including the word "ethics", but rather the context of the modern world, where this exact combination of words looked similar to an infamous phrase.
For something to be "infamous" it must first be famous. I'd never heard of it, and you can tell from the forums that a great many others have never heard of it either. Infamous to a small group of self-righteous whiners who live in a very narrow world perhaps, but for 99.99999999999999999% of the human race, there is no reason to take the phrase at anything other than face value.
"By your command" is an example of a phrase that was actually famous.
See, it's hard for you not to write something that looks not nice right away. There's absolutely no need to do that, this is why I wrote: "this thing was discussed many times already on this forum, so really it's better not to go that route again".
What was the removed line Minsc spoke? Can someone qoute him?
"Actually, it is about ethics in heroic adventuring."
Which you would have to be completely deranged to find offensive.
I don't think anyone found it offensive. It is just the fact that Minsc says it. The one character in the game that doesn't have a hint of a bad bone in him.
So it's impossible for good people to talk about ethics?!
+ it brings real world "politics\drama" into the game.
Because it's impossible for fictional characters to discuss ethics?
Nope. But it is impossible for Minsc to know about GamerGate. Even the devs said this was a bad idea, and they are removing it.
Would you enjoy it if Jeheira starts to talk about Donald Trump and what a poor president he would be?
Nope. But it is impossible for Minsc to know about GamerGate. Even the devs said this was a bad idea, and they are removing it.
Would you enjoy it if Jeheira starts to talk about Donald Trump and what a poor president he would be?
Actually that doesn't quite work. Minsc himself doesn't actually say anything about GamerGate, he talks about adventuring. The connection between the phrase and the group are left to the player. Similar to how Xzar couldn't possibly know about the Bhagavad Gita or the nuclear bomb, but it still makes sense for him to use his "I have become death, destroyer of worlds" line. The connection to Oppenheimer is left to the players imagination.
As for your example of Jaheira, if she specifically talked about Trump, then that would of course be absurd. But a better analogue to this situation would be if she said "I just want to make the Sword Coast great again". It would be an obvious reference to Trump, but would not have her actually going beyond what the character could say. I don't necessarily think a quote like that would be a problem (though it wouldn't be a great line either).
I'm not sad to see the Minsc line go, it didn't really belong in the game, and I don't think it filled a worthwhile goal. But it isn't really any more out of place than other lines.
As I read it, if I where to call someone on the forum a "self-righteous whiner" I would be breaking the forum rules. However, if I talk generally about people who whine in a self-righteous manner, it would be within forum rules.
self-righteous: adjective 1. confident of one's own righteousness, especially when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.
whinner: c.1700, frequentative of whine.
whine: verb 2. to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way:
As I read it, if I where to call someone on the forum a "self-righteous whiner" I would be breaking the forum rules. However, if I talk generally about people who whine in a self-righteous manner, it would be within forum rules.
You always should take into account the context. The people you're talking about as a whole can visit the same forum, the same thread and your message can be taken personal by them.
Imagine it this way: you're in a Faerun tavern and talking loudly bad things about the Zhentarim. Who knows if a hooded figure next to your table is not an agent of Zhents, already drawing his short sword.
Nope. But it is impossible for Minsc to know about GamerGate. Even the devs said this was a bad idea, and they are removing it.
Would you enjoy it if Jeheira starts to talk about Donald Trump and what a poor president he would be?
Actually that doesn't quite work. Minsc himself doesn't actually say anything about GamerGate, he talks about adventuring. The connection between the phrase and the group are left to the player. Similar to how Xzar couldn't possibly know about the Bhagavad Gita or the nuclear bomb, but it still makes sense for him to use his "I have become death, destroyer of worlds" line. The connection to Oppenheimer is left to the players imagination.
As for your example of Jaheira, if she specifically talked about Trump, then that would of course be absurd. But a better analogue to this situation would be if she said "I just want to make the Sword Coast great again". It would be an obvious reference to Trump, but would not have her actually going beyond what the character could say. I don't necessarily think a quote like that would be a problem (though it wouldn't be a great line either).
I'm not sad to see the Minsc line go, it didn't really belong in the game, and I don't think it filled a worthwhile goal. But it isn't really any more out of place than other lines.
Except it has been confirmed that it was aimed at GamerGate, so...
I have no love for those rats over at GamerGate, though. Can send them to Mars, for all I care.
Except it has been confirmed that it was aimed at GamerGate, so...
In reference to |= aimed at.
I don't really care about the line except for being uncomfortable at those who will be encouraged by its removal (for starters, I don't like Minsc and try never to use him), but it was never "insulting" and it was always absurd to pretend it was. The group itself uses the phrase and variants of it unironically. In no way in-universe was Minsc commenting on it, and out-of-universe, the phrase could easily have been taken as pro-GG were it not for the fact the people who cared generally felt Beamdog was already hostile to them for reasons which have already been talked upon ad nauseum.
Except it has been confirmed that it was aimed at GamerGate, so...
I have no love for those rats over at GamerGate, though. Can send them to Mars, for all I care.
Of course, I never said it wasn't. I was responding your implication that Minsc acted like he knew about GG when he couldn't (which I agree, would be a problem if it was the case), I said that Minsc himself didn't mention GamerGate. He talked about things that are in his world (adventuring and ethics) the rest is left to the player. *We* know he's talking about GG, *he* does not. That's how real world references work in fantasy settings.
Similarly, we know that Xzar is talking about the Manhatten Project, but he does so in a way that fits his world. *We* know he's referring to it, *he* does not.
When Garrick talks of how he's bravely running away, *we* know he's talking about The Holy Grail (something that he obviously never watched), *he* does not.
As I read it, if I where to call someone on the forum a "self-righteous whiner" I would be breaking the forum rules. However, if I talk generally about people who whine in a self-righteous manner, it would be within forum rules.
You always should take into account the context. The people you're talking about as a whole can visit the same forum, the same thread and your message can be taken personal by them.
Imagine it this way: you're in a Faerun tavern and talking loudly bad things about the Zhentarim. Who knows if a hooded figure next to your table is not an agent of Zhents, already drawing his short sword.
That's true if you said "Zhents are self-righteous whiners". However, if you just said "some people are self-righteous whiners" you could just as easily be talking about the Harpers. It's only if the Zhent believes himself to be a self-righteous whiner that he might be insulted, but even then, why should he be when you are just saying something he knows to be true?
Similarly, we know that Xzar is talking about the Manhatten Project, but he does so in a way that fits his world. *We* know he's referring to it, *he* does not.
You have mentioned this before but the quote from the Hindu scripture the Bhagavad Gita, obviously has nothing to do with nuclear fusion, the atomic bomb or anything related to it. Professor Oppenheimer mentioned the somewhat mangled quote and its origin in relation to the outcome and implementation of his research as he thought it was fitting.
A more recent translation of chapter 11, verse 32:
Lord Krsna said: I am Death, the destroyer of all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings; everyone will be slain here except you.
As with all holy texts the interpretation and exact translation is up for debate. The word kalo is most commonly translated to time instead of death but it refers to the law of nature that time equals destruction and merely describes the lifespan of something or someone. In this case; everyone on the battlefield except Arjuna and his four brothers.
Coming back to Xzar; I highly doubt the reference here is the atomic bomb as he does not wipe out a city on the other side of the world. Instead; I imagine he sees himself as a divine being come to end the lives of everyone in sight, with the exception of the Bhaalspawn and his four friends.
You have mentioned this before but the quote from the Hindu scripture the Bhagavad Gita, obviously has nothing to do with nuclear fusion, the atomic bomb or anything related to it. Professor Oppenheimer mentioned the somewhat mangled quote and its origin in relation to the outcome and implementation of his research as he thought it was fitting.
While that's true, it's far more famous in America as Oppenheimer's quote, often without attribution. I wouldn't be sure that's what Bioware was referring to in 1998, but it's the safe way to bet.
Except it has been confirmed that it was aimed at GamerGate, so...
I have no love for those rats over at GamerGate, though. Can send them to Mars, for all I care.
Of course, I never said it wasn't. I was responding your implication that Minsc acted like he knew about GG when he couldn't (which I agree, would be a problem if it was the case), I said that Minsc himself didn't mention GamerGate. He talked about things that are in his world (adventuring and ethics) the rest is left to the player. *We* know he's talking about GG, *he* does not. That's how real world references work in fantasy settings.
Similarly, we know that Xzar is talking about the Manhatten Project, but he does so in a way that fits his world. *We* know he's referring to it, *he* does not.
When Garrick talks of how he's bravely running away, *we* know he's talking about The Holy Grail (something that he obviously never watched), *he* does not.
Sure, those quotes are from movies etc. But they aren't associated with a recent online shitstorm. Putting that in the game would cause another shitstorm, and it did. The writer who put it in there knew it very well too.
Comments
There would obviously be mostly new characters, but having one or two returnees would be good for continuity.
+ it brings real world "politics\drama" into the game.
But this thing was discussed many times already on this forum, so really it's better not to go that route again, for the Xth time.
"By your command" is an example of a phrase that was actually famous.
It can quickly lead to breaking the forum rules.
Nope. But it is impossible for Minsc to know about GamerGate. Even the devs said this was a bad idea, and they are removing it.
Would you enjoy it if Jeheira starts to talk about Donald Trump and what a poor president he would be?
I would prefer it if Jalhera didn't impersonate a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica, but that train left the station 18 years ago.
As for this "Trump" person, it's pretty irrelevant, no one of that name is running for president of my county.
As for your example of Jaheira, if she specifically talked about Trump, then that would of course be absurd. But a better analogue to this situation would be if she said "I just want to make the Sword Coast great again". It would be an obvious reference to Trump, but would not have her actually going beyond what the character could say. I don't necessarily think a quote like that would be a problem (though it wouldn't be a great line either).
I'm not sad to see the Minsc line go, it didn't really belong in the game, and I don't think it filled a worthwhile goal. But it isn't really any more out of place than other lines.
self-righteous: adjective
1.
confident of one's own righteousness, especially when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.
whinner: c.1700, frequentative of whine.
whine: verb
2.
to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way:
Aim higher.
Imagine it this way: you're in a Faerun tavern and talking loudly bad things about the Zhentarim. Who knows if a hooded figure next to your table is not an agent of Zhents, already drawing his short sword.
I have no love for those rats over at GamerGate, though. Can send them to Mars, for all I care.
I don't really care about the line except for being uncomfortable at those who will be encouraged by its removal (for starters, I don't like Minsc and try never to use him), but it was never "insulting" and it was always absurd to pretend it was. The group itself uses the phrase and variants of it unironically. In no way in-universe was Minsc commenting on it, and out-of-universe, the phrase could easily have been taken as pro-GG were it not for the fact the people who cared generally felt Beamdog was already hostile to them for reasons which have already been talked upon ad nauseum.
Similarly, we know that Xzar is talking about the Manhatten Project, but he does so in a way that fits his world. *We* know he's referring to it, *he* does not.
When Garrick talks of how he's bravely running away, *we* know he's talking about The Holy Grail (something that he obviously never watched), *he* does not.
A more recent translation of chapter 11, verse 32: As with all holy texts the interpretation and exact translation is up for debate. The word kalo is most commonly translated to time instead of death but it refers to the law of nature that time equals destruction and merely describes the lifespan of something or someone. In this case; everyone on the battlefield except Arjuna and his four brothers.
Coming back to Xzar; I highly doubt the reference here is the atomic bomb as he does not wipe out a city on the other side of the world. Instead; I imagine he sees himself as a divine being come to end the lives of everyone in sight, with the exception of the Bhaalspawn and his four friends.
We're better than that. I moved the comments from here to the holding area.