@Mathsorcerer Thanks, but that's completely beside the point. I was saying @joluv is again getting hung up on semantics instead of understanding the content of my post. Whether "I hate gays" is belief or opinion is secondary. Although by your definition it is a belief. Well I guess it could be either.
@FinneousPJ Although I am routinely guilty of discussing things which may be beside the current point--and I freely admit that guilt when it occurs--I was addressing the broader issue of how we view each other as merely incorrect versus "wrong". People on both sides of the "social justice" debate have moved beyond the "you are incorrect" phase and have gone to the "you are wrong" phase, at which point polite conversation becomes nigh-impossible. (Incidentally, there is no such thing as "social justice", only "justice"--either all people are treated equitably or they are not...but we'll pick that up on another day.)
People need to quit speaking *at* each other and get back to speaking *with* each other.
@FinneousPJ Although I am routinely guilty of discussing things which may be beside the current point--and I freely admit that guilt when it occurs--I was addressing the broader issue of how we view each other as merely incorrect versus "wrong". People on both sides of the "social justice" debate have moved beyond the "you are incorrect" phase and have gone to the "you are wrong" phase, at which point polite conversation becomes nigh-impossible. (Incidentally, there is no such thing as "social justice", only "justice"--either all people are treated equitably or they are not...but we'll pick that up on another day.)
People need to quit speaking *at* each other and get back to speaking *with* each other.
I've seen far more SJWs spouting "you are wrong" than others. Not that my personal anecdote means anything, but from what I've noticed the "tolerant" SJWS are the more intolerant ones.
Regardless, the conversations in this group have been relatively civil. Don't be afraid of debate.
(Ok nevermind. I don't understand at all who is saying what because quote are totaly broken in this conversation, so i prefer not talking than answering out of the subject)
I don't think the issue is censorship here, like some are making it out to be. "Aritsts" are free to put whatever they want into their work, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to criticize it.
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
Hey look! Fixed quotes!
He never said white males have it easy or are the enemy. He said those he listed are not treated equally to white males.
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
Hey look! Fixed quotes!
He never said white males have it easy or are the enemy. He said those he listed are not treated equally to white males.
They're actually treated pretty equally here in America. Where are you from?
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
Hey look! Fixed quotes!
He never said white males have it easy or are the enemy. He said those he listed are not treated equally to white males.
They're actually treated pretty equally here in America. Where are you from?
You're saying that women, trans people, and racial minorities are treated "pretty equally" to white (cis) men in America? How low is your bar for "pretty equally"?
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
Hey look! Fixed quotes!
He never said white males have it easy or are the enemy. He said those he listed are not treated equally to white males.
They're actually treated pretty equally here in America. Where are you from?
You're saying that women, trans people, and racial minorities are treated "pretty equally" to white (cis) men in America? How low is your bar for "pretty equally"?
You're able to walk freely, go to the bathroom freely in all but ONE state, shop freely, get any job and education you want freely, get married to whoever you want freely, etc. There are African American Grants and Native American And Tribal Grants for education, also government funded grants for minority business owners, etc. The list goes on. You'll find none of these grants for white people. So please, tell me more about this GREAT racial divide and how it's focused mostly on minorities.
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
Hey look! Fixed quotes!
He never said white males have it easy or are the enemy. He said those he listed are not treated equally to white males.
They're actually treated pretty equally here in America. Where are you from?
You're saying that women, trans people, and racial minorities are treated "pretty equally" to white (cis) men in America? How low is your bar for "pretty equally"?
You're able to walk freely, go to the bathroom freely in all but ONE state, shop freely, get any job and education you want freely, get married to whoever you want freely, etc. There are African American Grants and Native American And Tribal Grants for education, also government funded grants for minority business owners, etc. The list goes on. You'll find none of these grants for white people. So please, tell me more about this GREAT racial divide and how it's focused mostly on minorities.
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
Hey look! Fixed quotes!
He never said white males have it easy or are the enemy. He said those he listed are not treated equally to white males.
They're actually treated pretty equally here in America. Where are you from?
You're saying that women, trans people, and racial minorities are treated "pretty equally" to white (cis) men in America? How low is your bar for "pretty equally"?
You're able to walk freely, go to the bathroom freely in all but ONE state, shop freely, get any job and education you want freely, get married to whoever you want freely, etc. There are African American Grants and Native American And Tribal Grants for education, also government funded grants for minority business owners, etc. The list goes on. You'll find none of these grants for white people. So please, tell me more about this GREAT racial divide and how it's focused mostly on minorities.
They're actually treated pretty equally here in America. Where are you from?
I from the USA that you can't see through your rose-colored glasses. I understand though, I wore them for the first couple decades of my life also. About thirty years ago, I married a black woman, and through the decades, we've raised two children, one of whom is trans.
It was quite a shock to see how people behave. As I said before in one of these threads, we don't notice when we're not followed around in a store, when we're not stopped by the cops on some lame excuse or when we're not assumed to be incompetent just because of our skin color. You only notice those things when they happen to you or someone close to you.
I can say it has gotten better in the 30 years I've been awake, but it isn't gone yet. And contrary to your claims, in many states (not most states anymore), sexual orientation and gender identity are not protected. People can still be fired or denied housing for being gay in a significant portion of the country. All of those scholarships and still minorities, especially blacks, are woefully underrepresented in higher education. When schools in predominantly black neighborhoods can't even fix their leaky roofs, never mind buy textbooks and computers, they don't tend to have many graduates who can pass college entrance exams.
It was 1995 before 50% of Americans approved of interracial marriage. In 2000, 40% of Alabamans voted to keep their constitutional ban on interracial marriage. In 2011, 46% of Mississippi Republicans surveyed in a poll stated they thought interracial marriage should be illegal. That's just a few on a subject I've made a study of, but it's one symptom of a larger problem. In a lot of places racism and religious bigotry is on the rise. Voter suppression laws have passed in various states, and laws allowing religious discrimination have passed or are proposed.
I can tell you what is causing this apparent resurgence of racism in various locales--it's the fear. It is always the fear. Citizens fear illegal immigrants and refugees from countries where the dominant religion and social norms are not our own. Poor people fear rich people. Black people fear the cops. People with mobile device cameras fear the cops. Parents fear to discipline their children because of the threat of CPS (child protective services). Democrats fear Republicans while Republicans fear Democrats. Fear, fear, fear--a bunch of frightened rabbits, huddling in the bushes in case a hawk is flying overhead.
In a small sense we did this to ourselves. We told ourselves for decades "oh, America is the Great Melting Pot" as if all people who came here somehow magically all transformed into some weird, homogeneous caricature of a person; instead, we should have been viewing ourselves as what we are--a mosaic. Yes, some of the color squares look garish if you examine them closely or they are too close together but when you step back you can see the work of art. Currently, we have focused in too closely and all we can see are the clashing colors. We need to step back and refocus.
I can tell you what is causing this apparent resurgence of racism in various locales--it's the fear. It is always the fear. Citizens fear illegal immigrants and refugees from countries where the dominant religion and social norms are not our own. Poor people fear rich people. Black people fear the cops. People with mobile device cameras fear the cops. Parents fear to discipline their children because of the threat of CPS (child protective services). Democrats fear Republicans while Republicans fear Democrats. Fear, fear, fear--a bunch of frightened rabbits, huddling in the bushes in case a hawk is flying overhead.
I think it's just as fair to say the rich fear the poor and the cops fear the blacks and cameras as well. They have power, and those with power fear it being taken away--especially by someone "less" than them.
(I'm not disagreeing, by the way, I'm just leveling the playing field a bit.)
Hmm. I still find it somewhat misplaced in a medieval-type setting on principle. In a current day or futuristic Mass Effect-esque kind of setting I find it believeable, since it would probably be a common occurence the inhabitants wouldn't really think twice about.
It grates on the credibility to me. Yeah, in a world of dragons and magic, I know. So sue me.
Without lecturing you on your admittedly subjective preferences, can I suggest you check out this person:
"OK, so you're a woman/trans/black/other minority and you are mistreated/bullied/killed/raped/not equal to the white male, but in other countries there are people who are even WORSE mistreated so you really should be happy for what you have instead of being angry at us white males who have no idea what it's like to never be their equal."
You make it sound like white males have it so easy by default. Not sure why they must be the enemy by default. I think I might understand why you think they do, but I could be wrong.
@BillyYank already answered for me, but just FYI - I am white male in my mid thirties living in an urban area in the western europe. Whenever I talk to other males in a similar situation as mine who tells me or aks me about white males "supposedly" easier life, as if it's unbeknownst to them it makes me wonder from which planet they are from.
All my life I've been priveliged. I've been so pampered and priveliged that I haven't even been aware of it. I only became aware of it when I started to listen, to actually listen, to those who didn't have my background. Wisdom comes with age, as it's said. It's true in my case, because I was for a long time so focused on myself I didn't have the empathy to try and understand someone elses situation. Now that I have everything I could ever need, and without even working very hard for it, I finally reached the maturity to realise that my situation is indeed the priveleged one and I need to act as a beacon for change. Because if I won't, the very archetype for on which the western society revolves around and that holds most of the power, then who the hell will?
This goes for everything, call it "SJ", call it egalitarian, call it whatever the hell you want. I prefer to call it my duty as a empathatic human being.
But isn't the whole thing "off topic"? Isn't the real issue a fear of women writing video games, stemming from men who fear any working woman "taking their jobs"? All this patently ridiculous transphobia is clearly just an excuse form woman-bashing.
Hence all the name-calling and bully-boy tactics. The true objective is to drive women off the internet and back to the ironing board.
@Fardragon Haha that's a good one. The topic is "What's your opinion on social justice warfare in games?" As a hint for the future, you may review the topic by looking at the title or even by going to the first post
Comments
I never mentioned cannibalism. You did. So take that straw man and keep it somewhere safe, ok?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/example
I hope that'll keep you from being confused. Ok?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/example
I hope that'll keep you from being confused. Ok?
Keep working on that personal development.
People need to quit speaking *at* each other and get back to speaking *with* each other.
Regardless, the conversations in this group have been relatively civil. Don't be afraid of debate.
He never said white males have it easy or are the enemy. He said those he listed are not treated equally to white males.
You're able to walk freely, go to the bathroom freely in all but ONE state, shop freely, get any job and education you want freely, get married to whoever you want freely, etc. There are African American Grants and Native American And Tribal Grants for education, also government funded grants for minority business owners, etc. The list goes on. You'll find none of these grants for white people. So please, tell me more about this GREAT racial divide and how it's focused mostly on minorities.
As for racial disparity, are you being remotely serious? If so, I guess you can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_inequality_in_the_United_States
It was quite a shock to see how people behave. As I said before in one of these threads, we don't notice when we're not followed around in a store, when we're not stopped by the cops on some lame excuse or when we're not assumed to be incompetent just because of our skin color. You only notice those things when they happen to you or someone close to you.
I can say it has gotten better in the 30 years I've been awake, but it isn't gone yet. And contrary to your claims, in many states (not most states anymore), sexual orientation and gender identity are not protected. People can still be fired or denied housing for being gay in a significant portion of the country. All of those scholarships and still minorities, especially blacks, are woefully underrepresented in higher education. When schools in predominantly black neighborhoods can't even fix their leaky roofs, never mind buy textbooks and computers, they don't tend to have many graduates who can pass college entrance exams.
It was 1995 before 50% of Americans approved of interracial marriage.
In 2000, 40% of Alabamans voted to keep their constitutional ban on interracial marriage.
In 2011, 46% of Mississippi Republicans surveyed in a poll stated they thought interracial marriage should be illegal.
That's just a few on a subject I've made a study of, but it's one symptom of a larger problem. In a lot of places racism and religious bigotry is on the rise. Voter suppression laws have passed in various states, and laws allowing religious discrimination have passed or are proposed.
In a small sense we did this to ourselves. We told ourselves for decades "oh, America is the Great Melting Pot" as if all people who came here somehow magically all transformed into some weird, homogeneous caricature of a person; instead, we should have been viewing ourselves as what we are--a mosaic. Yes, some of the color squares look garish if you examine them closely or they are too close together but when you step back you can see the work of art. Currently, we have focused in too closely and all we can see are the clashing colors. We need to step back and refocus.
Comment edited, don't forget about the site rules.
(I'm not disagreeing, by the way, I'm just leveling the playing field a bit.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevalier_d%27Eon
(Other people who should check out this person: everyone who doesn't already know who they are)
Hence all the name-calling and bully-boy tactics. The true objective is to drive women off the internet and back to the ironing board.