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Has Siege of Dragonspear Failed?

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Comments

  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    It's an educated estimate. 522,751 sales, plus or minus 17,797. 17,797 is the margin of error.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I don't know what thier methodology is (probably SD as someone mentioned) but it really doesn't make sense to list error estimates to that many sig figs. It's just a trick to make thier estimates sound more authoritative than they really are.

    They should say 523,000 +/- 18,000.

    dunbarPurudaya
  • Pharaun159Pharaun159 Member Posts: 41
    Theres two parts to this. One, this is and old school game with a new coat of paint, in a generation of kids that expect to be told and answer to memorize. Really got to strategize and there is really no wrong way if it works.
    The second part is, that one of the most popular play styles (dual class), kinda get caught with their pants down. If you dual at lvl 9 can you even get enough xp to regain abilities? So some characters are really at their weakest in a campaign that the developers played around with massively increasing the mobs. So makes it a bit harder then it had to be. And for new players that dont fully get the mechanics, not knowing that they'd need +3 weapons for the final encounter was probably a rough experience, were potentially the only +3 weapon they got was the fight right before final fight.
    Personally I love the new expansion. But it is clearly ment for experienced players. Newbies would really have a bad time.

    sparkleavConjurerDragonsemiticgodCrevsDaak
  • BarnabasBarnabas Member Posts: 10
    I hate it when my wife makes me baloney sandwiches for my lunch, why do you got to speak like your giving me a baloney sandwich, Trent !? You have done a lot of great things with these old classics, but by some of the calls you've made as head, you only justify why us B.C boys hate Albertians, but usually it's because of their oil money.

  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    Or maybe cereals. Those work too.

    brussparkleavsemiticgodCrevsDaak
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Barnabas said:

    I hate it when my wife makes me baloney sandwiches for my lunch, why do you got to speak like your giving me a baloney sandwich, Trent !? You have done a lot of great things with these old classics, but by some of the calls you've made as head, you only justify why us B.C boys hate Albertians, but usually it's because of their oil money.

    Um...could I have an interpreter?...

    But in any case, lay off.

    VbibbisparkleavGrumCrevsDaak
  • ValorousValorous Member Posts: 5
    I don't understand why you guys seem to think they sold as many copies of SoD as BG.

    That never happens. Expansions never sell as many copies as the base game. And every company that adds an additional expansion the numbers generally go down for each expansion. BG was also only 5 dollars for at least one third to half those sells. I expect the sells for SoD are lower then IWD's.

    Buttercheese
  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    I would like to point out, again, that my question has never been one of financial success, but cultural.

    Baldur's Gate fans are an obsessive lot, prone to planning and preparing and comparing and simply data crunching to get the most enjoyment out of each run as possible. EE-specialized faqs and lists for both games came out within the first month of each game's release and built up from there. SoD has gotten none of it. I have tried on the venues I frequent to start conversations about SoD and there just aren't any takers. Mention BG1 or BG2, however, and it gets lively even today. I find that disturbing and wanted to see if anyone else shared that impression.

    Now, I have to reiterate, I don't count Steam's forums and Beamdog's forums as valid indicators, for much the same reason you don't take political polls in the middle of a campaign headquarters. You wouldn't be there to vote if you weren't already passionately in favor of one side.

    I am very pleased that Mr. Oster can qualify SoD as a success. There was clearly a lot of hard work behind the game by all involved and they've certainly earned their pay. I greatly enjoyed the game, with a good few gripes about Caelar and Volghiln, and look forward to enjoying it much more when it's on my phone, where I actually play Baldur's Gate these days.

    I'm not asking if it's a good game. It is. I'm not asking if it sold well. It sold well enough. I'm asking if it has the chops to stick in the franchise or will it become a forgettable side-note in the series, not unlike Tales of the Sword Coast. Because, frankly, right now, it seems forgotten from the start, and I don't like that.

    sparkleavshawneButtercheese
  • ValorousValorous Member Posts: 5
    If something is developed as a product with dedicated man hours with a full team of developers, how can you judge it's success if you don't consider how many units it sold. And just saying it sold well enough is not very informative without knowing how much it cost to develop and how many units sold.

    Also, I would also ask how something could have any cultural impact if it sold less then 25k copies which is not outside of the realm of possibility. It might have some cultural relevance to those you bought it, but I honestly think not very many people have had much exp with it at this point. Maybe if they keep selling units and more eyes get on the content that might change. We will have to wait and see I guess.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Valorous said:

    Also, I would also ask how something could have any cultural impact if it sold less then 25k copies which is not outside of the realm of possibility. It might have some cultural relevance to those you bought it, but I honestly think not very many people have had much exp with it at this point. Maybe if they keep selling units and more eyes get on the content that might change. We will have to wait and see I guess.

    Do you have a source for this estimate?...

  • InKalInKal Member Posts: 148


    well, I played some more and:

    - SoD is not Baldur's Gate
    - plays more like IWD than BG
    - story is imo IWD main quest enhanced and hmm.... compacted
    - Celar is inferior to BG like totally
    - the you-know-who in da hood is inferior to SoD, serves no purpose exept "hey! it is about BG you know, for real...WINK"
    - his cryptic inane babbling (he is trying to kinda connect SoD's IWD realm with BG realm and fails and the entire game with him) really is annoying but I can take it thanks to THE VOICE
    - Corwin is a M PG 13 policy hahahah

    as a BG expansion SoD indeed failed.
    as a somewhat new game is pretty good, enjoyable stuff with flair (exept BG "city" part which is absolutely horrendous - 10x10 cm "location" with one fucking building in it and a whoa! quest)

    Overall I would give it 6 out of 10 potatos, 7 when in really good mood. Opinion...like ass....everybody must have one.........

    BG happend. Once. In 1998 or something. "TO SE NE VRATI". Deal with it.

    (fact) People are still playing the original BG to this day. (If someone can see people playing SoD in 2026, (s)he's wearing extremely pink glasses imo.) But very few people actually and only ocasionally when they are bored with their DA, ME, F:NV, The Bitchers, ESos, Swtors, etc. For every 10 players starting the game only 1 or 2 actually finishes it. BG whats the word? "franchise" is a niche, deep deep niche. If someones expectations were so high and unrealistic I would recommend reality check and a hard brian reset (so hot), it's really hot summer and the whole world outside.

    Not to mention that this very forum is a somewhat solid proof for cultural success. I'm a cultural and I can post here and I don't even know english. Profit! uuuhh so HOT! but of course it is original BG cultural success. All this here is possible thanks to the BG back in 2000. but SoD what about it? well, I enjoyed it. Beamdog actually managed to convince me to enjoy it for what it is and not for what my nostalgia tells me it should be - thats something. but was something actually changed in the sense you know "i'm here more for SoD not for the original BG"? My answer is: mods will tell you the truth. For exemple if SoD will be implemented in EET and become somewhat cannon, right? Imo SoD is not cannon and should not be (until at least) but my opinion doesn't matter (I'm no youtuber, don't have a blog....sniff). How many players will play SoD like all the time after completing BG? Where's the point? There is no place for SoD npc in BG2, no new content. BD is looking for new writers. For what? New game? Finish what you started first. Make a poll, transfer 2 or 3 most popular SoD npc to BG2, make a new quests for them, some cameos for the others (do at least that to justify your fooking 2.xx "patches" for BG2) only keep your "progressive" ideas in check. The ideal situation will be something like "for me SoD is now the integral part of BG/BG2 story" only realistically it is not and probably never will be.

    Therefore I have a message to Beamdog. You hacks must have more respect to the original game! OR you must create a new engine LOL. You must not act like a spoiled child "leaving" the parents house without giving back the key. And stop fixing bugs by making more bugs, silly lol x;>>>>




    click post or not, post or not, post or


    oops...

    Barnabas
  • StevevdlStevevdl Member Posts: 73
    @Calemyr As far as I am concerned, It is sad that because the places you go for information is outdated and not used, and don't include where most people congregate to discuss the game.
    Why are you even here asking your questions here, considering this is not a place to go for information on, by your own admission.
    You don't count this place as an indicator of the game, but here you are asking questions that are going to be ignored anyway.
    There is also, the people love the game so much they haven't stopped playing, to make a walkthrough for you
    Or the game is basically for the original BG1 players who are all older now and can't be bothered making a walkthrough like a young kid
    InKal thinks its a failure so now you have conformation the game is a failure because someone agrees with you

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Calemyr said:

    I'm not asking if it's a good game. It is. I'm not asking if it sold well. It sold well enough. I'm asking if it has the chops to stick in the franchise or will it become a forgettable side-note in the series, not unlike Tales of the Sword Coast. Because, frankly, right now, it seems forgotten from the start, and I don't like that.

    This is like asking if the dish that a restaurant just started serving a week ago is going to become a fan favorite. No one knows yet. It's too early to tell.

  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    @Stevevdl, you are not paying attention. I'm not trying to get people to agree with me, I wanted to see what people thought. I'm not even sold on the idea myself, I just wanted to see what other people felt. However, people insist on either answering the wrong question or attacking me and my preferred ports of call.

    If my choice locations are "outdated and not used", which locations are? As I said, Beamdog and Steam do not count. Where else in this great world wide web of wonders is this being talked about, other than the two Ms and the nonsense tied to them? Please, I would like to know. Because I would like to have meaningful conversations about the game and this clearly ain't the place.

    @rapsam2003 It hasn't been a week. It hasn't even been a month. It was brand new, marvelous and sparkling, and nobody talked about it. This isn't a book, this is a game. If there's a time the fanbase should be at their most active, it's the first couple months.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Calemyr said:

    @rapsam2003 It hasn't been a week. It hasn't even been a month. It was brand new, marvelous and sparkling, and nobody talked about it. This isn't a book, this is a game. If there's a time the fanbase should be at their most active, it's the first couple months.

    And you missed my point. A few months is not long enough to know whether SOD will go down in the annals of BG fandom as a success or a failure. Also, as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, your "no one has talked about it" stance is a logical fallacy.

  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226

    Calemyr said:

    @rapsam2003 It hasn't been a week. It hasn't even been a month. It was brand new, marvelous and sparkling, and nobody talked about it. This isn't a book, this is a game. If there's a time the fanbase should be at their most active, it's the first couple months.

    And you missed my point. A few months is not long enough to know whether SOD will go down in the annals of BG fandom as a success or a failure. Also, as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, your "no one has talked about it" stance is a logical fallacy.

    Yeah, I missed your point at the time. I see it now. That said, I'm not asking for Nostradamus, here. This is the time people should be buzzing about the game. They're no longer even buzzing about M&M (Minsc & Mizhena).

    As for my logical fallacy, where has this game been mentioned? I acknowledged Lilura's contribution in my original post. This is the first I've heard of Finch's, which I will acknowledge does weaken the premise of my question. That said, is that all two months have wrought? Where else? What else can you show me?

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2016
    Calemyr said:

    As for my logical fallacy, where has this game been mentioned? I acknowledged Lilura's contribution in my original post. This is the first I've heard of Finch's, which I will acknowledge does weaken the premise of my question. That said, is that all two months have wrought? Where else? What else can you show me?

    You ignore the buzz about this game on the Steam forums, oddly; when those forums are most likely the best 3rd party buzz for most games these days. And you keep pointing out outdated forums that are no longer relevant are generating very little buzz.

    Stevevdl
  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    Correct. I do not count merchant-based forums. I have said several times that I do not.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Calemyr said:

    Correct. I do not count merchant-based forums. I have said several times that I do not.

    Ironic, since those are likely to be the best indicators of the only way we can measure success after 3 months...

  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    edited June 2016
    They are the only indicators. As I've said before, those are biased samples, akin to getting political polling data from a campaign headquarters or placing CO2 sensors next to active volcanoes. The data comes pre-slanted.

    Other sites, such as my much-maligned Gamefaqs, have very active participation on much newer games. On the other hand, this is the first time I've mentioned any of my viewing preferences in some time here, rather than repeatedly pointing them out as you suggest. Instead, what I have been asking is where it has been discussed outside of two merchant-based forums. I have two walk-throughs for my efforts, and I'm curious if there's anything else.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2016
    Calemyr said:

    They are the only indicators. As I've said before, those are biased samples, akin to getting political polling data from a campaign headquarters or placing CO2 sensors next to active volcanoes. The data comes pre-slanted.

    Yes...and that's the point. You want to know if the game "failed" after 3 months, when really the only actual indication of success or failure after 3 months -- that would not be opinion-based -- is going to be merchant data. You're not wrong, in that it is slanted data. It's also the most accurate data that would be available after 3 months.

    After 3 months, we know zip about whether the game is a cultural success or not. (And that's really what you mean. "Is the game remembered culturally?".) For all we know, the game could be forgotten. Or it could go on to be remembered as one of the high points of the BG saga. It's way too early to tell after 3 months.
    Calemyr said:

    Other sites, such as my much-maligned Gamefaqs, has very active participation on much newer games.

    lol, is this 2008? GameFAQs has a tiny fraction of the activity it used to have. Stop using them as a "source" for your opinion here.

    Fardragon
  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    edited June 2016
    Again. HAS activity on games newer than this. No activity on this one. I am unaware of any location other than a merchant forum that has any activity (excluding those two aforementioned walkthroughs). That's my only point. They are my source. It is not too early for there to be activity, nor have those sites ceased to be popular. Not popular among your demographic, perhaps, but your distaste does not indicate invalidity any more than mine. The fact that I disdain Twitter and its ilk to their core and equate the word LOL with the sound of a dunce does not make Twitter invalid nor you an imbecile. And, yet again, my effort is not to say "there is no activity there, so it fails", it's to say "there's no activity there, where is there activity"?

    Steam and Beamdog are not valid sources. So give me a source that I can use as an alternative and I will do so.

    I must say, if merchant forums are the only source of conversation regarding a landmark addition to a cult classic franchise, I am deeply disappointed.

    shawne
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016
    Calemyr said:



    Steam and Beamdog are not valid sources. So give me a source that I can use as an alternative and I will do so.

    I must say, if merchant forums are the only source of conversation regarding a landmark addition to a cult classic franchise, I am deeply disappointed.

    It sounds to me that you have already decided that SoD is a "cultural failure", whatever that is supposed to mean, and your definition of a valid source is any source that supports your thesis, and an invalid source is any source that counters it.

    Pretty much like "biblical scholarship".

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Calemyr said:

    And, yet again, my effort is not to say "there is no activity there, so it fails", it's to say "there's no activity there, where is there activity"?

    People keep pointing out valid sources, and you keep dismissing that. Despite what you think of Steam or Beamdog forums, they are valid sources of sales. Sales is the only damn thing that matters after 3 months. We can't judge cultural impact after 3 months.

    semiticgod
  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    edited June 2016
    On the contrary, I desire to have the supposition proven wrong. I want to find a place where this is discussed outside of a merchant forum. I want to see that this game has some meaning outside of echo-chambers. I am begging for such evidence. If my sources are invalid, then give me good ones. Show me that this game is alive anywhere outside of these two forums! Please!

    Also, I would challenge the validity of Finch and Lilura's works as evidence of activity. Neither are finished, and the last evidence of activity in either case seems to be May 12th and May 2nd, respectively. Well over a month in either case.

    shawneLilura
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2016
    Calemyr said:

    On the contrary, I desire to have the supposition proven wrong. I want to find a place where this is discussed outside of a merchant forum. I want to see that this game has some meaning outside of echo-chambers. I am begging for such evidence. If my sources are invalid, then give me good ones. Show me that this game is alive anywhere outside of these two forums! Please!

    You expect an addition to a cult classic to have buzz outside of the merchant forums, after 3 months?! Really, dude?! Stop expecting there to be a giant cultural buzz.

    Mr2150semiticgod
  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    These are three months it should be there, when the game is new and exciting. And I'm not expecting some giant buzz. I'm just surprised to find next to nothing.

    But I accept this isn't the right venue for this conversation.

    shawne
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