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What happens if you just ignore Jaheira/Minsc at the start?

That is, if you don't interact with them at all, do they just magically show up at the Copper Coronet / Harper Hold?

If they do can you still romance Jaheira and/or does she still whine about Khalid?

Not sure how practical this knowledge is. I just always feel like an ass when I tell them to basically fuck off at the beginning when I don't want them in my party.

jackjackBlackorblolienAethernaut
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Comments

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,501
    Jaheira will attack you if you summon her in tob. thats about it.

    jackjacksemiticgodMagpieRandoms
  • ReiRei Member Posts: 63
    Kurona said:

    I like to keep Jaheira until I can snatch the Ring of Wizardry. Always entertaining to hear her whine about how she betrayed everything for you before getting the boot.

    Yeah. That's the thing. She really gets on my nerves but I want that ring. Any idea how long it takes to get to that point?

  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,173
    I can understand the dislike for Minsc even if I do like him but leaving Jaheira behind is flat out criminal and y'all should feel terrible.

    ThacoBellcatsarekacampMagpieRandoms
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881

    I can understand the dislike for Minsc even if I do like him but leaving Jaheira behind is flat out criminal and y'all should feel terrible.

    If it makes you feel better, I also tend to leave Imoen at Spellhold. Never liked her.

    GodjackjackMagpieRandomsWandering_Ranger
  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,173
    :o Please no. You are an awful, awful person.

    ThacoBellcatsarekacampMagpieRandomsbdtgazo
  • ReiRei Member Posts: 63
    Kurona said:

    Rei said:

    Kurona said:

    I like to keep Jaheira until I can snatch the Ring of Wizardry. Always entertaining to hear her whine about how she betrayed everything for you before getting the boot.

    Yeah. That's the thing. She really gets on my nerves but I want that ring. Any idea how long it takes to get to that point?
    Not long if you know what to do:
    - If you're male, kill the romance immediately by booting her (she will go in front of Harper's Hold).
    - Walk around Athkatla until you trigger the random encounter with the poisoned man.
    - Finish Xzar's quest chain.
    - Recruit Jaheira again (if you booted her) and Meronia should appear, making Jaheira leave the party for 7 hours.
    - When she comes back, go to Harper's Hold and kill Galvarey and his goons. The battle might be a tad difficult if done immediately though, especially with SCS.
    Thanks! Quick question for you (or anyone). Do you know what triggers her leaving for those seven hours. Usually it just happens on its own pretty quickly but in my last run it just wouldn't happen at all no matter what. (I was romancing her.)

    Eventually I just left for Spellhold with not much else left to do.

  • iavasechuiiavasechui Member Posts: 273
    My main and really only problem with Jaheira is the fact that I cannot enter a certain inn with her unless I want to get completely sidetracked with breaking that curse.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919

    My main and really only problem with Jaheira is the fact that I cannot enter a certain inn with her unless I want to get completely sidetracked with breaking that curse.

    What else is in there?

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,581
    edited July 2016

    My main and really only problem with Jaheira is the fact that I cannot enter a certain inn with her unless I want to get completely sidetracked with breaking that curse.

    Just bring everyone else in, so long as Jaheira is not with you it's alright.
    mf2112 said:

    My main and really only problem with Jaheira is the fact that I cannot enter a certain inn with her unless I want to get completely sidetracked with breaking that curse.

    What else is in there?
    A pirate cave, the Thumb (to whom you need to speak during Jan's quest) and Officer Dirth (Related to Nalia's quest), and Marcus (Mae'Var's quest)

    jackjacklolien
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Rei said:

    Kurona said:

    Rei said:

    Kurona said:

    I like to keep Jaheira until I can snatch the Ring of Wizardry. Always entertaining to hear her whine about how she betrayed everything for you before getting the boot.

    Yeah. That's the thing. She really gets on my nerves but I want that ring. Any idea how long it takes to get to that point?
    Not long if you know what to do:
    - If you're male, kill the romance immediately by booting her (she will go in front of Harper's Hold).
    - Walk around Athkatla until you trigger the random encounter with the poisoned man.
    - Finish Xzar's quest chain.
    - Recruit Jaheira again (if you booted her) and Meronia should appear, making Jaheira leave the party for 7 hours.
    - When she comes back, go to Harper's Hold and kill Galvarey and his goons. The battle might be a tad difficult if done immediately though, especially with SCS.
    Thanks! Quick question for you (or anyone). Do you know what triggers her leaving for those seven hours. Usually it just happens on its own pretty quickly but in my last run it just wouldn't happen at all no matter what. (I was romancing her.)

    Eventually I just left for Spellhold with not much else left to do.
    That was because you were romancing her. Jaheira's romance is very very long and changes little things in the Harper questline so Meronia only appears once the romance reached a certain point. That's why you need to kill it immediately if you're not interested in keeping Jaheira.

    Reijackjack
  • ReiRei Member Posts: 63
    Kurona said:

    Rei said:

    Kurona said:

    Rei said:

    Kurona said:

    I like to keep Jaheira until I can snatch the Ring of Wizardry. Always entertaining to hear her whine about how she betrayed everything for you before getting the boot.

    Yeah. That's the thing. She really gets on my nerves but I want that ring. Any idea how long it takes to get to that point?
    Not long if you know what to do:
    - If you're male, kill the romance immediately by booting her (she will go in front of Harper's Hold).
    - Walk around Athkatla until you trigger the random encounter with the poisoned man.
    - Finish Xzar's quest chain.
    - Recruit Jaheira again (if you booted her) and Meronia should appear, making Jaheira leave the party for 7 hours.
    - When she comes back, go to Harper's Hold and kill Galvarey and his goons. The battle might be a tad difficult if done immediately though, especially with SCS.
    Thanks! Quick question for you (or anyone). Do you know what triggers her leaving for those seven hours. Usually it just happens on its own pretty quickly but in my last run it just wouldn't happen at all no matter what. (I was romancing her.)

    Eventually I just left for Spellhold with not much else left to do.
    That was because you were romancing her. Jaheira's romance is very very long and changes little things in the Harper questline so Meronia only appears once the romance reached a certain point. That's why you need to kill it immediately if you're not interested in keeping Jaheira.
    Ah! Thanks!

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,142

    My main and really only problem with Jaheira is the fact that I cannot enter a certain inn with her unless I want to get completely sidetracked with breaking that curse.

    Has anybody not lifted "the curse"?
    What happens, does she really die in front of you, if so I have got to try that someday.

    I have never understood why the original writers made the "canon" party members so annoying.
    I simply cannot keep any of them in party for a whole playthrough. I try, really I try, but every single time they say/do something that ensures that RP wise, it would impossible for me to spend time with any of them.

  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881

    Has anybody not lifted "the curse"?
    What happens, does she really die in front of you, if so I have got to try that someday.

    After a few days she drops dead. Just like that.

    jackjackMagpieRandoms
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,142
    Kurona said:

    Has anybody not lifted "the curse"?
    What happens, does she really die in front of you, if so I have got to try that someday.

    After a few days she drops dead. Just like that.



    All these years, never even considered not lifting the curse. Just goes to show how conditioned I am to follow instruction.

    Freeeeedom................

    Vbibbi
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881

    Kurona said:

    Has anybody not lifted "the curse"?
    What happens, does she really die in front of you, if so I have got to try that someday.

    After a few days she drops dead. Just like that.



    All these years, never even considered not lifting the curse. Just goes to show how conditioned I am to follow instruction.

    Freeeeedom................
    I once led on Jaheira until the moment she gets captured by bandits just to attack them immediately with her still hostage. And THEN I did the curse quest and told her she was more trouble than she's worth. You can be soul-crushingly evil in this game if you just try a little. Ofc it's not to the level of PS:T but still evil.

    But the worst I ever did was to Saerileth :)

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Arunsun said:

    My main and really only problem with Jaheira is the fact that I cannot enter a certain inn with her unless I want to get completely sidetracked with breaking that curse.

    Just bring everyone else in, so long as Jaheira is not with you it's alright.
    mf2112 said:

    My main and really only problem with Jaheira is the fact that I cannot enter a certain inn with her unless I want to get completely sidetracked with breaking that curse.

    What else is in there?
    A pirate cave, the Thumb (to whom you need to speak during Jan's quest) and Officer Dirth (Related to Nalia's quest), and Marcus (Mae'Var's quest)


    Sorry, I should have phrased that better, as in what else is in there that is important? :p Jan and Nalia are annoying, I rarely use them. Sometimes I do the Mae'Var quests in chapter 2 if I pick up Edwin but usually those are chapter 6 for me anyways. Besides, the Jaheira curse quest takes less than 10 minutes to complete in the game so why not knock it out? :)

  • JouniJouni Member Posts: 50

    I have never understood why the original writers made the "canon" party members so annoying.
    I simply cannot keep any of them in party for a whole playthrough. I try, really I try, but every single time they say/do something that ensures that RP wise, it would impossible for me to spend time with any of them.

    Probably because they made everyone else annoying as well. Minsc and Yoshimo are tolerable as comic reliefs, Imoen is quite neutral, and Keldorn and Mazzy are reasonable as long as they agree with player choices. Others just whine all the time or find other ways to annoy you.

  • KennisKennis Member Posts: 122
    edited July 2016
    I'll admit it - I use Jahiera and Minsc as pack horses and throw anything they carry of value into a barrel on Waukeen's promenade. Then I go find some reliable help in Viconia, Dorn, Edwin and Korgan and give the do-gooders the royal boot.

    jackjackKurona
  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229

    Blackorb said:

    How can you feel good about yourself, if you do that you also leave boo behind!

    Animals are innocent. I EEKeeper Boo into my own inventory, and feed him raisins and sunflower seeds every day. He also seems to appreciate not being made to go for the eyes. Hamsters are not hellhounds.
    I think Boo is a survivor and could easily have escaped the dungeon after the entrance collapsed. He could have gone into the sewers or just crawled through the rubble which was too small for a humanoid to pass through.

    I can understand the dislike for Minsc even if I do like him but leaving Jaheira behind is flat out criminal and y'all should feel terrible.

    I like Jaheira as a character, especially given that she is one of the most fleshed-out NPCs in the series. A lot of her characterization is locked into her romance, which is unfortunate to me. I like her romance out of context but I can't think about it too hard or it becomes really tasteless and out of character. We literally came across her husband's corpse soon after beginning the game, and end up being in a relationship. And this is after she and her husband traveled with us through BG1 and she saw herself as a foster mother/big sister to our character.

    If Khalid was scripted to die at some point during BG1 maybe her BG2 romance would have been less uncomfortable. And I respect that her romance takes a long time to reach fruition because it's more of a friendship track that turns into a romance at the end. But I would rather have left her as a platonic option, keeping the majority of her romance content in the game as a friendship relationship.

    I'd like to think that if BG2 had been made today, Aerie and Viconia would have been romances, and the resources for the next romance would have gone to Haer'Dalis or Valygar so that Anomen isn't the only female romance option.

    One of the things I really like about the Dragon Age series is that companions have content that isn't locked by romance or personal quest. They also have friendship tracks and conversations.
    Jouni said:

    I have never understood why the original writers made the "canon" party members so annoying.
    I simply cannot keep any of them in party for a whole playthrough. I try, really I try, but every single time they say/do something that ensures that RP wise, it would impossible for me to spend time with any of them.

    Probably because they made everyone else annoying as well. Minsc and Yoshimo are tolerable as comic reliefs, Imoen is quite neutral, and Keldorn and Mazzy are reasonable as long as they agree with player choices. Others just whine all the time or find other ways to annoy you.
    I don't think most companions were annoying. A bit one dimensional or exaggerated, sure, but they were miles better than vanilla BG1 companions. Yoshimo is surprisingly complex once we witness his entire character arc, and seeing his interactions with Charname and other companions in hindsight is enlightening. I also thought Keldorn was a good variation from stereotype in that he was good at being a paladin but still had major character flaws. Most of the time, if paladins aren't characterized as bland and perfect, they are more like Anomen in being self righteous and arrogant while forgetting the virtues of humility and protecting the weak.

    I've already spoken on Jaheira's depth. Aerie and Viconia are similarly complex, but again most of that content is unfortunately romance gated. Anomen at least has some personal resolution regardless of if he's romanced or not, although some significant content of his is still romance gated.

    For the others, Jan is funny the first time then quickly gets tired. I used to enjoy Nalia but now rarely even recruit her for the keep quest. I enjoy Valygar although it feels like a lot of his content was dropped to make deadlines. I love Haer'Dalis and his unique perspective on things, though again some of his content was dropped. Cernd is a bit dull and Mazzy doesn't interest me much, but I wouldn't call them annoying. Edwin and Korgan are amusing in a what the hell is wrong with you kind of way :wink: but I rarely play evil parties so don't run with them.

    ThacoBelllolien
  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,173
    edited July 2016
    Vbibbi said:

    I like Jaheira as a character, especially given that she is one of the most fleshed-out NPCs in the series. A lot of her characterization is locked into her romance, which is unfortunate to me. I like her romance out of context but I can't think about it too hard or it becomes really tasteless and out of character. We literally came across her husband's corpse soon after beginning the game, and end up being in a relationship. And this is after she and her husband traveled with us through BG1 and she saw herself as a foster mother/big sister to our character.

    If Khalid was scripted to die at some point during BG1 maybe her BG2 romance would have been less uncomfortable. And I respect that her romance takes a long time to reach fruition because it's more of a friendship track that turns into a romance at the end. But I would rather have left her as a platonic option, keeping the majority of her romance content in the game as a friendship relationship.

    Ehh... call me freaky but I've never seen the big deal with this. It's not like she jumps into your bed moments after escaping the dungeon, neither does she abandon Khalid's memory as her dreams and ToB wraith section show, there's a surprising amount of development and growth before it reaches the romantic stage. I always took it as CHARNAME being the first one to display attraction, and eventually succeeding in developing a full romance by the end of it. Then again the concept of someone falling in love with their senior isn't exactly new to me ('Return of the Condor Heroes', a wuxia novel kinda has something similar going on, except without the grieving widow angle) which is why I'm okay with it compared to most players. And you can still do her well done questline without a romance, despite some of the emotional impact being lost.
    Vbibbi said:

    I'd like to think that if BG2 had been made today, Aerie and Viconia would have been romances, and the resources for the next romance would have gone to Haer'Dalis or Valygar so that Anomen isn't the only female romance option.

    Ehh, Viconia's romance is actually my least favorite and Aerie's is better but doesn't compare to Jaheira to me, so this would make me very sad. I prefer romances that are more than one person piling on their piteous backstory to evoke sympathy. Jaheira's romance is better about it imo. Even Anomen's is actually pretty good.

    Edit: God I don't know what went wrong with the post. How embarrassing.

    ThacoBell
  • JouniJouni Member Posts: 50
    Vbibbi said:

    I also thought Keldorn was a good variation from stereotype in that he was good at being a paladin but still had major character flaws. Most of the time, if paladins aren't characterized as bland and perfect, they are more like Anomen in being self righteous and arrogant while forgetting the virtues of humility and protecting the weak.

    Isn't Keldorn the most stereotypical paladin ever written? When a character is described as "dedicated something", the most obvious conflict for them is duty vs. personal life. The perfect / arrogant paladins are common caricatures, but they're mostly used as plot devices instead of actual characters.

  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229
    Jouni said:

    Vbibbi said:

    I also thought Keldorn was a good variation from stereotype in that he was good at being a paladin but still had major character flaws. Most of the time, if paladins aren't characterized as bland and perfect, they are more like Anomen in being self righteous and arrogant while forgetting the virtues of humility and protecting the weak.

    Isn't Keldorn the most stereotypical paladin ever written? When a character is described as "dedicated something", the most obvious conflict for them is duty vs. personal life. The perfect / arrogant paladins are common caricatures, but they're mostly used as plot devices instead of actual characters.
    I think we're viewing the situation differently, as I would say from your description that the common caricatures are the most stereotypical type of paladin. I agree with you that they're more plot devices than characters, but that conforms to the idea of being stereotypical. Writing a character whose flaw is too much dedication to a cause is at least a step up from one dimensional cartoon.

    So in this regard, that's why I see him as less of a stereotype. I am considering him as per his attitude toward being a paladin rather than his role as a paladin as it pertains to the rest of his life. And really, the way that paladins are generally perceived, I think most would run into issues balancing their home lives with their professional. The dogma of a paladin is to always be a champion of good and seek out evil; that really doesn't mesh well with having a family.

    I think mostly of his banters with Anomen and Mazzy as demonstrating his overall humility and low key personality. He is a foil to Anomen's self righteous arrogance and does not believe himself better than others because of his strength. And he respects Mazzy as a fellow fighter on the side of good.

    I know some people have issues with him fighting Viconia, but I don't agree that it's an issue of racism. He doesn't approve of recruiting Viconia, but he doesn't automatically fight her when she joins, and I believe he gives warning before he finally attacks her. I see that as him allowing her a chance to demonstrate her intentions in the party. And for the most part, she does live up to her NE alignment through her banters and her views on the world. As a paladin he can detect evil, so he is objectively seeing that she has an evil aura. I don't think he would attack a non-evil drow like Solaufein.

    I would actually rather have seen him have issues with Korgan, as well. He should be able to detect the dwarf's evil alignment as well, but except for Aerie the game seems to handwave how nasty the dwarf is. Mazzy even has a quasi flirtation with him.

    ThacoBell
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    About Jaheira's romance, yeah it's a bit creepy but I think it's less objectionable than Viconia. Remember that Viconia is hundreds years old, comes from a matriarchal and misandrist society where men are little more than disposable slaves, and that Charname is a 21 years old sheltered most of his life in a monastery.

    mf2112VbibbiMagpieRandoms
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