Help me choose protagonist class (full trilogy playthrough)
Zerguu
Member Posts: 37
Hey there,
This is why I both love and hate RPGs, whenever I pick one I spend hours on character creation screen trying to choose character to play. More choice = bigger headache. So I would like to get some help with choosing class for full saga playthrough.
My idea of character is chaotic/good elf(half elf), sly, who use clever tactics instead of brute force to overcome his adversary. It have to be not too cheesy (otherwise it will make playthrough boring) but he have to be able to handle problems by himself.
P.s I also have to point out that certain mods are in play (particularly Rogue Rebalancing, Spell Revisions and Item revisions).
This is why I both love and hate RPGs, whenever I pick one I spend hours on character creation screen trying to choose character to play. More choice = bigger headache. So I would like to get some help with choosing class for full saga playthrough.
My idea of character is chaotic/good elf(half elf), sly, who use clever tactics instead of brute force to overcome his adversary. It have to be not too cheesy (otherwise it will make playthrough boring) but he have to be able to handle problems by himself.
P.s I also have to point out that certain mods are in play (particularly Rogue Rebalancing, Spell Revisions and Item revisions).
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since their HP aren't as great as normal melee characters, I like to keep them in the back
on the flip side, if you do want to go in melee, and attempt to pull off a backstab or two, then maybe try out some dual wielding? longswords or scimitars are both excellent choices, and since you have some mage levels you can cast spells like: shield, ghost armor, blur, mirror image, wraith form and the like which will help you survive longer in melee
if you do go the dual wielding route, I would highly suggest you max out the proficiencies in two weapon fighting, because fighting with 2 weapons without proficiency will give you huge penalties, and then for the other proficiencies I would go with 2 in longsword first and then start putting the rest in scimitar
or you could go to bow, and especially if you are an elf with 19 DEX and can use the composite long bow ( requires 18 STR) then at level 1 you can really start to kick some enemy butt ( especially if you have 2 points in longbow)
the thing to remember is, at low levels, the game can be quite gruesome, where enemies can 1 shot you without a worry or care, so sometimes range can be the better part of valor, especially at the lower levels
stat wise, I would go with something like this:
STR 18
DEX 18 (19)
CON 18
INT at least 16
WIS irrelevant
CHA around 10 is good enough
STR: you definitely want this to be maxed out, whether if its for melee power, or composite bow using, or just the ability to carry that much more loot, 18 STR is a must, now if you have a fighter class in there, you will get an 18/xx , my suggestion would be to go for at least 18/91+ if you can, if you somehow reach 18/00 ( 1 % chance to do so) you will have very exceptional STR and melee going melee will be the way to go with that STR
DEX: again 18 if you are a half-elf and 19 if you are an elf, not only will this grant you with a nice AC bonus but it will help you hit better with missile weapons, especially if you have 19 DEX, that 19 gives you an extra +1 to hit with missile weapons, and in the world of BG, especially at low levels, every +1 bonus counts, also the higher DEX you have, the bigger bonus you will get on your thief abilities as well, so you really REALLY want this ability to be cranked to max
CON: depending on race, you want this maxed out as much as possible as well, if you are a half-elf you can hit 18, but if you are an elf you can only hit 17, with F/M/T their HP aren't all that great, so you really want to give your HP as much of a boost as possible to make up for your low HP, so max this out at all costs, especially if you plan on going the melee route
INT: this is mainly for you mage casting ability, 18 is quite preferred, but 16 will also get the job done, in theory you really only need a handful of spells to make your mage useful, and you can also erase spells if you run out of room anyway, so if you don't want to spend an eternity on rerolling, 16 will work, and especially if plan on going in melee, 16 INT will really help against certain monsters in bg2 ( if you plan to import)
WIS: not really important at all for your character build, although if you do want some lore, having at least 10 WIS will make it so you don't get a lore penalty ( the higher lore you have, the better chance you can identify an item without the identify spell) so if that doesn't bother ( and don't worry, identifying items is still pretty easy in BG) and if you need a dump stat so you can crank your STR/DEX/CON/INT then this would be the one to do so
CHA: again, this stat can kind of be a dump stat, but you don't want to make it too low, or else no one will every join your team, so I would suggest that at the lowest, make it 8, in the BG series, you get 3 reaction types from NPCs; negative, neutral, and positive, if your CHA is too low, more often than not you will be getting negative reactions from NPCs ( meaning that they won't be hostile, but they will probably be rude to you and such) but with around 10 CHA you will get more neutral reactions, but if somehow you bump up the CHA to 18+ than you will more than likely only receive positive reactions, and there are quite a few quests in the game where you will get better rewards with that higher CHA, but you will need high CHA to succeed in that ( and in all honesty, you can live without the huge CHA) so when it comes to CHA, either have it at around 8-10, or crank it to 18, no less, and no more than those values
so with all this being said, you will have a very rounded character, and you will be very useful at the same time, you will not be broken or hugely OP, and with those thief skills, you can actually gain enough to make it so you don't need another thief in your team, another great thing about F/M/T is you can play them so many different ways, and juggle through their abilities ( for instance, stick in range for a while, then switch over to melee, or be an offensive caster than switch over a defensive caster, or if you run out of spells then you actually deal some decent damage with your weapon of choice)
so for a 4 man party, maybe you might want to do something like this: another warrior, a divine character, and perhaps another mage type character, and then your guy
also, if you only have a team of 4 guys, your experience will grow a little faster since you only have to share it between 4 characters as opposed to 6, which will really benefit your triple class character since you will need quite a bit of XP to grow up levels, but even in bg1 its not too bad, although in mid bg2 and beyond you will need huge XP to grow up levels, but your character will still be good none the less
From the second half of SoA he will be slowed a little more, since the relation between XP and levels is not linear, the main problem is that he will never reach lev 9 mage spells, unless you have an XP cap remover. Not a problem at all if you have an other mage, relevant if you play the FMT as the only mage.
But even so he remains powerful and useful, the game can be won also without the lev 9 spells, and the power of a FMT is combining the 3 classes, not being the best possible in each one of them.
He will not be an inferior fighter, mage and rogue, but a different one, powerful in a different way.
The single class fighter will deal more dmg, from GM and maybe kit bonuses. The FMT can use his mage part to be untouchable (blurr, mirror images, stoneskin, PFMW) and tank better then a pure fighter, can open the battle with a deadly backstab or lure the enemy in some traps he has prepared, he can use his sequencers to debuff or damage the enemy loosing almost no mlee time. He loose a little raw mlee power but gain much more when he combine the 3 classes together.
He is not only a great utility character covering 3 different functions, is a powerful one when he melt them together.
From your description of what you envision your character to be, it sounds like you want to play someone that can hold his own in fight without being over-focused on combat but is also a sneaky adversary that uses his wits. May I suggest dropping the Mage from the f/m/t and going with a fighter/thief? They are very easy to play and require no baby-sitting or micromanaging, unlike a f/m/t. Plus, you don't need to bring another thief along at the beginning to compensate for your f/m/t not being high enough level to find most of the traps you need to find and unlock most of the locks you want to unlock (unless you prefer to focus on backstabbing at first).
I too suffer from my inability to choose what class I want to play. I just took a f/t through bg1, though, and it was a lot of fun--probably the most fun I have had in bg1.
Don't worry about ruining the challenge. The game is balanced enough that any character you make will face his fair share of challenges. There are always npcs out there to fill a gap that your character can't fill. I believe a f/t will fit better in a 4 person party than a f/m/t would, but that is my personal opinion. @sarevok57 is a much more experienced player than I am.
F/M: Strong fighter, buffed up with arcane spells you will be able to survive pretty much anything and still be able to dish out the damage. Great from the start to the end with pretty much zero drawbacks. Ofc levels faster than the FMT, but as pointed out in older threads (do a forum search), the difference is for large portions of the game quite small. Can wear certain armor pretty much designed for this class. Can weild pretty much any weapon you would ever want to weild. Can go down the dual weild route or whatever you want. You'll need a party thief and maybe a secondary mage if you want faster access to higher level spells. A very good choice and one of the all-time favorite "powergaming" classes.
F/T: Strong fighter ofc, same as above, but won't rely on spells. You'll get enough thief skill points to be the party's only thief, can scout, backstab (can only backstab with 'thief' weapons) and disarm traps/open locks. With points in pickpocket and some potions you can supply the party with gold and items. Late in the game you get one of the best HLA's, but not sure if I should write that out
F/M/T: Can do anything really. Slightly more limited in equipment if you want to avoid alot of item swapping (can only backstab with 'thief' weapons, taking armor on and off etc), but can use pretty much anything. The jack-of-all-trades. You can't go wrong choosing this, but for a first playthrough the many options might be almost too versatile?
A few other option who could be somewhat what you ask for are:
Blade: A 'weaker' version of a FM or FMT. Much more item dependent, but levels alot faster. Only pickpocketing thief skill. Great kit abilities, the spins.
Thief/mage: Very versatile, but not a great fighter for obvious reasons. Can be buffed up for decent melee, but it's not really this class' forte. Give you great freedom in choosing NPC's though.
Then of course you have all the dual class option, but since you wanted elf or halfelf, that's not really an option for you unless you want to 'cheat'. Also, some think that dualclassing is less intuitive for new players, but it can yeild great results and produce amazing charnames.
Have fun playing, whatever you choose!
Definitely the best choice I think.
Yes, it was my first thought, but there's one problem: Imoen. With Imoen in party I think there will be too much overlap.
But what @mashedtaters and @Skatan tell is also true, for a new player merging well the 3 classes is not so easy, even if is also not so difficoult as there are mage spells to boost AC and to avoid damage at all, even in the lowest levels.
Imo the multi F/T is a good option. F/M multi is also good, but less good, as a thief is needed anyway and later on a thief NPC will be less useful then a second mage.
I still think that a FMT is the best choice, with a cleric and a couple of fighters in BG1 and swapping a fighter for a second mage in BG2 or keeping the 2nd fighter and swapping the cleric for the M/C NPC you find there (I don't want to spoil more than this).
I disagree only on the following points:
-FMT is not a jack-of-all-trades, he is a powerful one in all the trades, for the reasons I have already told.
-Blade is not similar to multi FMT, is a completely different thing. He level at the rate of a single class and can somehow be a fighter, a mage and a rogue. But he do it in a completely different way, a not intuitive one. I love blades and play them often, but I think that they are for experienced players and that they cover a completely different role in the party, to have them fighting in an effective way need a lot of micromanaging and specific knowledge and as rogues they have only pickpoket, lore and some HLA, no traps and locks detecting and disarming, no hide and backstab, no traps setting before HLA.
_Aboutt duals I think that they are not easy for a newbie, their down time need metaknowledge and some (legit) tricks other way their down time is just to long. Only knowing which quests are easier and how to save XP for leveling fast the second class in the down time make them worth. In SoA.
As the toon have to go through the entire saga it is even worst, dualing too early produce a sub optimal toon later, dualing at the right level for SoA mean playing all BG1 with a single class or its very last part with a very low level second class only after the dualing.
A dual through the whole saga is possible, but don't meet the requirements of the OP, for the whole first game he will rely only on brute force and without the trick that I don't suggest for a first run has to be babysitted for the first part of BG2, Is the choice of a PWGamer who focalize only on late game and is ready to sacrifices in the beginning to have that little more power in the end.
@Zerguu want to follow a different route, creative and clever tactics instead of brute force, imho for him the dual is not the way to go.
[spoiler=Inquisitor 512 kills]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=FMT 446 kills]
[/spoiler]
I would like to mention that the FMT has 18/76 STR and 19 DEX, while the Inquisitor has 18/00 STR and 18 DEX. The FMT specializes in short swords and two-weapon fighting, while the Inquisitor specializes in two-handed swords, crossbows and halberds.
So, a triple class is quite effective in a group, being on par with heavy warriors.
Have a great time!
Analyzing your game has to be remarked that the number of the kills is similar (42% against 37%) but the Inquisitor has the double of xp from them, is he that often perform the last hit on the hard enemies.
But is also true that in a multiplayer a FMT can not use his full potential, as he can clear full areas with his backstabs and traps, but is not funny for the other players just sit and watch....
In a single player game the FMT is even stronger and more satisfying to play then in multiplayer.
I completely agree with you about how FMT is effective in a group and on par with heavy warriors.
edited to add "@bengoshi".
Without that early boost the FMT will remain one-shot bait for an annoying length of time IMHO. And will also take seemingly forever to get even Level 2 Mage spells, such as Mirror Image. etc.
Note however that certain NPCs will then only be recruitable in their mid-level versions which may not be maximised per HP.
You can use thief tactics if you like or you can buff yourself into a warrior to take the battle to them when is needed. A party is recommended as you did not mention doing this series solo plus its more entertaining and can fully flesh out the power of a cleric/thief plus compensate for its weaknesses.
Starting stats is up to you but there is no need to min/max anything. Race is up to you but if you want a romance then its either elf, half-elf, half-orc or gnome. Thief stats - as you are going through the entire series then it doesn't really matter but I would start with detect illusion, set traps and then the others (as you will bring Imoen along for the first part of the journey).
An example:
STR 15 -16
DEX 17-18
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 16 (higher the better but with tomes around it can be this low at the start)
CHA 11
(grand total of 85 anything higher of course is better or you can make STR as low as 14 to up your WIS) Low STR can easily be compensated in the game.
Stats - of course the stats will also change depending if you are role-playing more or less - I always liked a high charismatic thief, she makes the perfect con artist; so my thief usually has an 18 CHA.
With RR mod your thief gets to shine more as the traps make a bit more sense plus you can dual wield with ease. Plus with Item revision and spell revision your cleric will have a much better offensive spells that you can play with.
For weapons I recommend clubs (primary hand) and slings for BG1; until you can dual wield - hammer (off hand).
Staffs are also a possibility as primary weapon (which I use in melee) but I don't like that you can backstab with it (just too weird so I never allow my thief to backstab with it).
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Now if you don't really want to enter melee battle at all or severely limit it plus use the benefit of your kit then I suggest the fun and amusing Jester kit. With RR the Jester becomes a lot more as the song improves with levels plus it is a lot of fun to play with.
You have to take a party with you for full advantage of the Jester kit but it makes for a lot of easier encounters with you have to face a horde of monsters.
The Jester is of course clever and sly, and of course by his very nature is chaotic. With mage spells to assist (and keep him safe while he sings - nothing like improved invisibility + stone skin +blur) you can wander the battle field singing and confusing the hordes of monsters.
Of course there are those that are immune to the song or that can see through invisibility - for those encounters you fall back on your darts or crossbow (as it fits better with a Jester than a bow and darts are so much fun) plus you throw in your mage spells for some instant disabling or bombing the monsters from a far with some offensive spells. Or perhaps a sticky web + stinking cloud and then use missile weapons - so you don't need to get blood on your clothes.
As far as Imoen goes, I play a thief regularly. This is how I deal with her -
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/797466#Comment_797466