Ideas on how to improve the current no-reload thread
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Administrator Posts: 199
This discussion was created from comments split from: Unpopular opinions.
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@Ygramul , @Grond0 , @semiticgod , @Aasim , @Corey_Russell , @Serg_BlackStrider , @Blind_Visionary , @ussnorway , @Wise_Grimwald , @Jared4242 , @SapphireIce101 and @lunar (not a poster, but a watcher)
However, that doesn't mean I'm not happy to welcome the extremely active former Bioware no-reloaders to this forum. I'm actually delighted that the valuable resource of all that years long experience and knowledge is here.
And I imagine that it can only be a good thing for the people posting all those runs to have more participants. For the times I've posted runs publicly, my main motivation for that was to share with other people who were doing the same thing, so it was definitely a case of "the more the merrier."
I propose that we separate the thread into multiple different threads for each Infinity Engine game, much like it was at the old Bioware forum. The current thread will retain its old posts (why bother separating hundreds of posts?), and will become the BG1 thread since BG1 runs are the most common there. We will have a separate thread for IWD, SOD (obviating the need for so many spoiler tags), BG2, and all other games (since IWD2 is an IE game but currently has no relation to Beamdog). The minimal reload thread has little traffic and should not be separated.
This will curb the overflow somewhat without requiring us to reduce the number or length of posts or runs (lord knows I couldn't deal with cutting the length of my posts; I love adding in every detail round-by-round).
Also, I normally only pay attention to SOD, BG2, and IWD runs rather than BG1 posts, and if anyone is like me, the separation would let people focus on the runs most interesting to them.
We could also curb the overflow by sending each no-reload thread to a separate discussion board, but I think it would be better to keep them in the higher-populated General Discussion board.
I agree with Semitic. Keep these separated threads for each game under General Discussion. Making your way to the BG2 thread can be an achievement in its own right. Elitism!
I like @semiticgod proposals but as I am very casual here, don't make changes because of my unpopular opinion! :-)
Naturally, I think it is great that many more people like to do no-reload runs. With any luck future game development, by Beamdog and others, will steer game balance in this direction as a result. (Pillars of Eternity already displays this direction.)
It's a bit like the Groucho Marx Joke: "It's so popular that no one goes there anymore," but I think it is a great problem to have such sustained interest in this game. And, the no-reload approach has always been a linchpin of Baldur games, even when many people do not personally choose as their style:
In all honesty, the Bioware no-reloaders (many of whom are now posting in the no-reload thread here) are quite easily the unsung heroes of why EE games even *EXIST*. Seriously, think about it. The sustained popularity of this two decades old game is not a coincidence: those gamers --unusually well-behaved and supportful for any gaming community-- formed a union that lasted beyond the longevity of any other game. (Imagine comparing it to, e.g., the Diablo 2 community of yore.)
Personally, I learn a lot from other people's attempts.
(... and after a decade of trying, I have yet to finish a single trilogy no-reload run.)
Lastly, I think there is a synergy in having multiple EE games (as they are built on the same engine) in one thread. But if it is the consensus of the board to divide the thread, I will be happy to do so. Keep in mind that many people seamlessly cross from BG to BG2 to TOB in the same run. Artificially dividing their posts to different threads is not particularly useful or helpful. (And IWD runs have been actually rather rare anyhow.) There are also already many parallel threads on, e.g., minimal no-reload runs or specialized LoB runs etc.
When calling all of you here I was thinking in the same direction as semiticgod but wanted everyone to express their suggestions. I think the feedback we're getting shows this is an important subject.
It's indeed a critical issue if people stop following a thread (any thread) because of its "speed" or format, not because they lose interest in the subject being discussed in it.
In the same time those who actually post in the current no-reload thread find it supportive, convenient and helpful.
So far, seeing different points of view on this matter, I'm thinking everything should stay as it is.
Gate70 made the suggestion that participants could get into the habit of linking their previous post to their current one in order to make it easier to follow specific runs (right-click on date of previous post and choose copy link address from menu). That sounds like a good idea to me and I'll start doing that in future.
I will recommend this in the no-reload thread as well.
I would vote yes for the thread seperation, just like it was done in bioware forums. This way when I am in the mood of low level bg1 adventures and to check the newstarters, I can look at bg1 no reload thread. Or go directly to bg2 one if I want to check if anyone made it to the Throne. It becomes a bit distracting when I read a post of someone starting at candlekeep, immediately followed by some other poster battling Abazigal, for example, not to mention if it is followed by even more alien iwd and sod posts. It kinda ruins the mood and makes following each poster's adventure a bit harder as it is distracting, and one can lose track of 'what was this character, didn't this character have a barbarian oh no it was a sorceress, or was it a bg1 post?'. It does posters no justice in that matter. It is not terribly jarring, I can live with it.
Then again Neera would have approved of the chaos.
The problem is independent of the *posting rate* of the posts (i.e. would persist if, e.g., only 1/3rd of posts would appear per week).
I'm sure that a polite reminder to multi-picture posters will help with this issue. It is not a matter of content, it is a matter of format.
My opinion on the no-reload thread matter:
I think dividing the thread by games is a decent idea. Like semiticgod, who doesn't follow BG1, I don't follow IWD/IWD2 posts, for example (don't get me wrong, they are fine games, but I never got into them deep enough to be able to really appreciate a no-reload run or good heart of fury-tactics) - and I do agree with the people who say that it's hard to follow the thread due to the number of new posts every day if you don't have that much time. Multiple threads also make it easier to interact with other posters, because you're likely dealing with the same game and with the same problems.
However, I also understand the convenience of only having on thread to post in - it is a little bit easier as a poster, though not as a reader.
Enuhal
Dividing it into different games would be okay but still, I get a lot of inspiration for my bg1 games when I read what others do in their bg2 games, so I am divided in that respect.
But I have not read it much lately because I have been workeingabroad for a few months and was unable to continue my run with melissa the transmuter (still alive btw). And I cannot read it since others are further in sod than my blind run...
So... I don't get tired of completing Candlekeep quests and going through the Irenicus starting dungeon each playthrough.
It's difficult to appease everyone but...
How about keeping them grouped (grouping BGI, SoD, and BGII runs together in same thread) but the thread starter will mark a specific starting day (or days) as the start for that thread run? Format would be something like -
Announcement - In title, thread starter states starting date(s) and any ideas (rules?) he has for that run. Starting date will be one to three days out. Something like, "Columbus Day run starting Sunday/Monday."
Recruitment - Those that want to participate in that run will announce their PC (or party) on or before those days. After those days pass (from Tuesday forward, in the above example) only those that announced their PC during the 'recruitment' window will post about their no-reload run. Of course, questions, encouragement, suggestions, etc. are always accepted from all - just no NEW no-reload starts after that initial window.
This format has some advantages -
No-reload run starters could create guidelines for THEIR no-reload runs if they like. E.g. "Recruiting Sunday/Monday - Insane difficulty, SCS, no-reload Columbus Day run"
Along with the above no-reload thread, we'd also have something like "Recruiting Sunday/Monday - any difficulty, canon(ball), Jaheria, Khalid, Mincs, Dynaheir, Imoen, CHARNAME, no-reload Columbus Day run"
Or maybe, "Recruiting Sunday/Monday - slow pace (weekend gamer), core difficulty, SCS, no-reload run - this run will be epic but progress will be slow"
IMO, this also follows along better with the no-reload idea to begin with. In general, there will be a more defined beginning, middle, and end to these threads.
This also adds the ability, for those that participate, to more easily keep the same progression throughout the game (e.g. the four 'recruited' for a particular no-reload thread all started around the same day so their stories may be all reaching Durlag's tower at around the same time), which, in turn, adds interest for readers of the thread by allowing them to easily see how different party compositions and players tackle particular obstacles (like the aforementioned Durlag's tower).
This will encourage people who have never played with specific rules (like with SCS on insane/ToB) to give it a go. I have always been impressed with the level of tactical detail and thought given in posts by those who tackle this highly difficult momentous task - kudos to you all!
The basic idea is that forumgoers can participate in the runs (threads) that they are interested in and avoid the ones they're not.
EDIT: Probably best to use dates instead of days (Recruiting 10/9-10/10 - Insane difficulty, SCS, no-reload Columbus Day run), but you all get the idea.
Also, it is my experience that people don't like it when one tells them what they should play and on which day and how to post about it.
I think this is all really an overreaction. Micromanaging people's posting habits (beyond obviously friendly *suggestions* such as inclusion of links to earlier posts or spoiler tags to manage images) will just alienate a body of posters that are superbly friendly and civil.
We welcomed the Bioware posters deliberately. Their activity volume and experience was legendary. It is no different here. Now, we want to herd them like kittens?
Unpopular opinion, indeed....
My suggestions might have gone a little too micro but the basic premise of "Recruiting - 10/9-10/10 no-reload run" is still a good one.
The only thing that we'd be 'herding' is the start date and it would surly serve to mitigate some of the concerns voiced in this thread.
Anywho, just a suggestion. Even if it does turn out to be an unpopular one.
I can understand why some people feel swamped by the number of posts.
I have been away for just four days and a number of pages have been written in that time.
Like most posters I hide screenshots so that only those that are interested see them. I think that would be a good policy if adopted universally as some players have over a dozen screenshots in a post.
Separating BG1 and BG2 from the other games might help those who feel that the forum is swamped, but since there are few posts for Icewind Dale and Planescape, it wouldn't have a dramatic effect.
I could well understand those playing Icewind Dale wanting a separate thread. I would say that is up to them. If that is what they want, then they could create such a thread, but I don't feel that their input swamps the current thread.
The thread is clearly very popular at the moment. This popularity means that there cannot be a lot wrong with it.
I would suggest that Grond0's idea of putting links in to previous posts is a good one, and perhaps links to later posts would also be convenient.
The idea of dropping a hint to those who post multiple images without putting in spoilers is a good one. Those who do that probably don't realise that it is a problem, or perhaps they don't know how to do it.
I have no strong feeling for or against splitting the forum into two or more threads.
whatever people decide is fine with me.