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[SPOILERS] Is it possible at all to conquer Ust Natha with SCS?

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  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881

    One of my eventual goals (after all of my family disappears and/or is teleported away by demons, bless their little hearts) is to beat this in my SCS-to-11+LoB setup. With IR and SR, naturally. That should take some work.

    This would be an awesome run to document.
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591

    One of my eventual goals (after all of my family disappears and/or is teleported away by demons, bless their little hearts) is to beat this in my SCS-to-11+LoB setup. With IR and SR, naturally. That should take some work.

    I'm kind of trying that for 4 years (without reloading). No luck still. :(
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    The greatest obstacle I see for myself there right now is that it would make me overlevel all the other content. I'd do every quest I can before heading to Spellhold, including all of WK. That leaves you at almost ToB-like levels in mid SoA, which can be a bit silly. Then again, I am trying to assault a major drow city, so...
  • unavailableunavailable Member Posts: 268
    I'm curious about what SCS would be like if I let the enemies have the bonus merchant items like robe of vecna. but then I read about the guardian seal mage using it with alacrtiy + timestop + skull traps, much like we usually use the robe and get scared off.

    I suppose a good inquisitor with a lot of potions and the right gear could survive the onslaught?
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    edited October 2016
    Tenrecc said:


    Alonso said:

    I was thinking about this for a while. I did the maths and they don't look too good. The best weapon Jan has is a dagger +3. Combined with haste and girdle of strength he has THAC0 8, 2 APR, damage 4-7 + 7. With backstabbing the damage becomes 29 per hit on average. Since the average drow AC is about -8, he will be hitting about 25% of the time. That means about 15 damage per round. That won't get me far against hundreds of drows and demons. However, it does sound interesting for other battles. Can you also do it with Improved Invisibility?

    Attacking from Stealth grants -4 THAC0, so it'll be around 40% chance to hit. And the greatest benefit of it isn't the high damage output, it's that he's virtually immortal while doing it as long as his clone doesn't die and he doesn't go up against creatures that naturally can see through invis. Which there are more of in SCS though.
    Still don't find it very attractive. I prefer to tank with spellcasters when feasible, all their protective spells make them far less vulnerable than the heavy hitters. The hits that Jan doesn't take will go to someone else.

    maybe later in the battle Aerie, investing all the lev 7 spells in PI

    What level 7 spells? Aerie's still level 12! :p
    Kurona said:

    @matrice The problem is that @Alonso doesn't have Wish.

    Thanks, but, you know, it looks like there is not much that I can do with my current party, and it's an interesting topic, so I'm glad people are discussing how to approach the fight with other parties.

    my SCS-to-11+LoB setup.

    What's that?
    ThacoBell said:

    There is a least one video record on youtube of someone doing it.

    I think this is the video @ThacoBell mentioned. Worth checking if you're interested in this fight.
  • matricematrice Member Posts: 86
    lunar said:

    Entropist? That's a cool name for a wild mage.

    Yeah, the french translation used to be great :)
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    They could have but they did not, in Italian it could have been "mago entropista" but it was "mago selvaggio".
  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    I just remembered another method that I used to conquer Ust Natha a long time ago.

    I brought my party up on top of the platform inside the tavern and had them summon creatures on the stairs. My two toughest fighter NPCs stood on the stairs with two NPCs with ranged weapons behind them. My fighter-mage PC and Viconia were in the area where the guy that you rent the rooms from normally stands. The drow army came at me from the stairs and I defended with the summoned creatures and with my tougher fighters. I had a very large number of potions of greater healing throughout my party, which I had the front line use when possible. I had my casters summon creatures to replace those that died and when my front line NPCs became too badly injured to continue, I had them fall back to be replaced by my second line of defenders, who switched their ranged weapons out for swords and maces. My PC and Viconia also used offensive spells against the drow and Viconia healed the front line defenders once they traded places with the second line NPCs. When the second batch of characters to be at the front were injured I swapped them out again with the previous batch who by then were healed and repeated the process. This took a very long time, but I eventually won.

    This is a much harder tactic to use than the other three methods that I described earlier. The weakest point for me was when I switched the 1st and 2nd tier defenders. If any of the drow broke through my lines when I did this I would very quickly get overwhelmed and my entire party slaughtered. I successfully played it this way twice with a party of six that was entirely under my control. I also played it this way once while I controlled half the party of six and my dad controlled the other three characters. Playing with the second human player was considerably more challenging since it made coordination at critical times much more difficult.
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    ARKdeEREH said:

    My PC and Viconia were 5th playthrough

    What does this mean?
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Alonso said:

    ARKdeEREH said:

    My PC and Viconia were 5th playthrough

    What does this mean?
    I believe he has played the game through (or mostly through), exported the characters, started a new game and then imported the characters and played again. And again.
  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    edited November 2016
    Sorry, I accidentally posted this twice.
  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    edited November 2016
    Alonso said:


    ARKdeEREH said:
    My PC and Viconia were 5th playthrough

    What does this mean?

    As of when I fought those battles that I was talking about in Ust Natha, I played with both my PC (Evice) and Viconia for five playthroughs of Shadows of Amn + Throne of Bhaal. At the end of Throne of Bhaal I put all of both Viconia and my PC's equipment into my PC's inventory and imported him back to the beginning of Shadows of Amn and then played the game over again. In original Baldur's Gate 2 it was possible to keep your equipment if you paused the game in the very beginning and dropped your stuff/then picked it up after the game would otherwise take it. I would then open up Shadowkeeper and edit my game so that Viconia had exactly the same stats that she had in the end of Throne of Bhaal, including how far she was in the romance, etc. I could either add a copy of Viconia into the Irenicus dungeon through the cluaconsole, or I could just recruit Viconia in the usual way and then add her prior statistics back on afterwards.

    The level cap would normally cause the characters to eventually not advance further. I got around this by using shadowkeeper to reduce their XP and level down to level one, while everything else stayed the way that it had been when they were level 40. It isn't perfect, but it allows my multi-playthrough characters to continue to get additional XP and therefore more proficienies, hit points, etc. The main problem that it causes is that the game thinks that they're a lower level than they actually are, so whenever they get level ups their saving throws and spell slots get messed up. I can change them back, but it is a hassle, so I usually only level-up my characters one time per playthrough as a result. The long-term benefits are huge though, so both my PC and Viconia have substantially more than 300 HP, which they slowly earned through level-ups across multiple playthroughs.

    I added mods and only play on the insane difficulty setting in order to make the game challenging. I never pre-buff anyway because I've always thought of it as tedious and boring, so while random muggers on the street usually explode before I even know that they've attacked me, many of the opponents that I fight in plot-advancing battles are actually still difficult enough that they can kill my multi-playthrough characters. I don't usually play with a party much larger than three either, unless I'm trying to have interesting banter from new characters or need the inventory space. Sometimes I don't even give the 1st playthrough characters weapons since they're literally only there to provide banter and inventory space. This can also add an interesting element to the game since my multi-playthrough characters often have to divert their attention from battles in order to keep the green recruits alive.

    My most recent playthrough of Evice and Viconia has them in their 7th playthrough. I've roleplayed that they were married after the 1st playthrough Viconia romance plot and that the subsequent playthroughs are their adventures together afterwards. I even changed Evice's last name to "DeVir" to reflect this since men take their wives' last names in drow culture.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited November 2016
    Welcome back, Alonso!
  • pwaringpwaring Member Posts: 81
    How do you know if you've cleared Ust Natha? Is there a quest XP reward? (I'm close to finishing the quest line at the moment).
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    You can go out of the town :)

    And there're no longer drows and what not attacking you.
  • pwaringpwaring Member Posts: 81
    I'm a bit confused, I've always managed to get out of the city after killing some (but not all) of the drow in the past. Usually I allow the daemon to kill the Matron Mother and the ambitious female drow, then I kill everyone between me and the exit.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    pwaring said:

    I'm a bit confused, I've always managed to get out of the city after killing some (but not all) of the drow in the past. Usually I allow the daemon to kill the Matron Mother and the ambitious female drow, then I kill everyone between me and the exit.

    I think it may be a not-SCS experience - you just managed to leave the city before the timer ended.
  • AnonymousHeroAnonymousHero Member Posts: 98
    pwaring said:

    I'm a bit confused, I've always managed to get out of the city after killing some (but not all) of the drow in the past. Usually I allow the daemon to kill the Matron Mother and the ambitious female drow, then I kill everyone between me and the exit.

    If you did it "casually", then you didn't do the SCS version. Here's a video of what happens in SCS. (I'll note that he used the ridiculous plate mail from the Improved Asylum mod -- on an Anti-paladin character. The plate grants permanent Imp. Haste and Anti-paladins have dispel-on-hit, so... yeah. OTOH he didn't use any L9 spells, so there's that.)
  • pwaringpwaring Member Posts: 81
    Yes, it's my mistake - I didn't realise SCS stood for a mod.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I managed to beat the thing on Legacy of Bhaal mode at about 8-9 million XP for five party members: a sorcerer, Edwin, a Seducer (a unique thief kit), Viconia, and a Totemic Druid. I had Spell Revisions and Item Revisions installed, which balance out items and spells, but I had several important things going for me:

    1. My thief was using the Earth Elemental Token from SCS, which is supposed to be just for the druid who created it, but Use Any Item permits a thief to use it. It grants 50% damage resistance, which stacks with the Wish spell from Hardiness, the 10% damage resistance from the IR Fortress Shield, and the 30% damage resistance from drow full plate mail (which I think is supposed to be 25%). This grants 100% physical damage resistance.
    2. I was using the Wand of Lightning trick to cast extra Wish spells. Item Revisions nerfs it severely, but you can still cast 3 Wish spells per casting using the WoL. This increased the chance of a good Wish option.
    3. Due to a minor bug, the Hardiness option from Wish stacked on everyone but the main character, when EE was supposed to prevent it from stacking on anyone. This also granted 100% damage resistance, but could be removed by Breach.
    4. My thief's Seducer kit allowed me to incapacitate large numbers of enemies at once, albeit very unreliably, and charm the drow despite their MR.
    5. A bug allowed me to summon multiple Devas and Planetars without using Project Image to bypass the summoning cap (normally you can only have 5 summoned critters, and only 1 of them can be a celestial).

    But I also had several things working against me:
    6. Because of how the Wish dialogues activate, and because they all rely on the dialogue prompting your own character to cast the spell that constitutes each wish, the djinn can talk-block you if you summon too many at once during Time Stop.
    7. Another minor bug prevented the Breach option from Wish from working. Basically, a parameter was 0 instead of 1. This meant that, instead of Breaching everyone instantly, my sorcerer had to cast the spell individually on each enemy. This actually got my sorcerer killed once, because it prevented him from casting a spell to renew his defenses.
    8. Another bug instantly killed me several times. It's unique to EE: basically, the game ends spontaneously for no clear reason, and the whole party's portraits get blacked out. There is no known way to prevent it.

    All reloads came from bugs. The first 5 things are kind of "cheesy" (though the Seducer kit is actually fairly balanced considering the drawbacks), but there are ways to replicate the effects without using any unintentional exploits.

    1. A Barbarian or Dwarven Defender can still reach 90% to 100% damage resistance. Both get 20% innate resistance by epic levels, and both can get an extra 20% resistance from items: either from the Defender of Easthaven without Item Revisions, or using Full Plate Mail or the Orc Leather with Item Revisions. Defensive Stance grants another 50% and Hardiness grants another 40%. The Fortress Shield from Item Revisions grants 10%. So:
    Barbarian without IR: 80%
    Barbarian with IR: 90%
    Dwarven Defender without IR: 90%
    Dwarven Defender with IR: 100%
    Clerics can also add 25% resistance with Armor of Faith (or just 10% with SR), but that is dispellable.
    2. Even if you don't use the Wand of Lightning, you can still get reliable Wish-rests if you have 3 sorcerers (or mages with Wish, but the scroll is extremely rare), or probably even 2 sorcerers if you use simulacrums to restore spell slots using Spell Trap.
    Without Spell Revisions: the Black Blade of Disaster can restore multiple spell slots, as each strike counts as a level 9 mage spell. A level 35 spellcaster can get infinite spells using Simulacrum, Spell Trap, and Black Blade of Disaster. If you have two mages, you can use Project Image instead of Simulacrum, in which case you only need to be level 18.
    With Spell Revisions: you can restore multiple level 9 spell slots using Bigby's Crushing Hand. If you cast it on somebody with Spell Trap already active, it will only restore one slot, but if you hit the mage with Bigby's Crushing Hand and then cast Spell Trap, each strike of the hand will count as a separate level 9 spell. You can also restore level 9 spell slots if another mage casts Comet on the caster with Spell Trap, as SR Comet is party-unfriendly and SR allows Spell Trap/Deflection effects to absorb area-effect spells.
    3. Even if the Hardiness option from Wish did not stack, you can still get it to work on non-fighter characters. A druid in Earth Elemental form can reach 90% resistance with Hardiness, and get 100% resistance using Armor of Faith (dispellable) or IR armors--or the Fortress Shield, if your druid has fighter levels.
    4. Even without a custom kit, it's possible to get past a crowd of drow's magic resistance. SCS tweaks Dragons' Breath and Comet so they can only be cast once per day, and not by clones, but if you don't have that component installed, you can wipe out groups of drow using DB and Comet very easily, as both of them deal heavy damage and bypass magic resistance. Comet knocks out the target for 3 rounds on a failed save vs. death; Dragon's Breath knocks out the target for half a round on a failed save at -10.
    5. Unless EE without SR installed changes this, the summoning cap does not apply to Project Image clones, allowing you to conjure many celestials at once.

    Note that not all of these things are necessary to win the fight; they just make a huge difference.

    This only applies to LoB mode, however, and these things require very high levels that would be difficult to reach in normal mode unless you've been deep into Watcher's Keep.
  • AnonymousHeroAnonymousHero Member Posts: 98


    2. I was using the Wand of Lightning trick to cast extra Wish spells. Item Revisions nerfs it severely, but you can still cast 3 Wish spells per casting using the WoL. This increased the chance of a good Wish option.

    That's a new one to me, could you explain how that works?

    Just curious... probably not going to exploit this unless I get *really* desperate for Wish-resting on my solo Sorcerer :).
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