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  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    Empyrial said:


    Maybe he's WAY more devious than we thought. The writer may have intended that as an "OH SNAP!" moment where we realize how badly we've been played. It'd showcase the "scheming noble" archetype well.

    He'd still need to be much more diplomatic when he demands the keep from you for that to be effective. He just turns into a jerk without rhyme or reason as it is.

    ArctodusEmpyrialCrevsDaakWise_Grimwald
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    edited February 2017
    Bigfish said:

    batoor said:



    Yes and the whole Roenall conflict is rather dull, compared to what could have been with the Stronger individual who hired Torgal. If they created a follow-up to that.

    I though the Roenalls hired Torgal to get Nalia's father out of the way so they could take over?
    I haven't gotten to that part yet, since it's been awhile since I did D'arnise quests..But it doesn't strike me as the Roenalls could have been imposing enough to make such a strong impression on Torgal, then there's that Glacius fellow who talks about ''whose sorcery has shown me the way'' in the level above.

    How many trolls hire themselves out to the run of the mill noble family anyway? But yes it could be it's just the Roenalls and people read too much into it, but to me Stronger always seemed like a more impressive individual.

    Wise_GrimwaldTrauerweide
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    batoor said:

    Bigfish said:

    batoor said:



    Yes and the whole Roenall conflict is rather dull, compared to what could have been with the Stronger individual who hired Torgal. If they created a follow-up to that.

    I though the Roenalls hired Torgal to get Nalia's father out of the way so they could take over?
    I haven't gotten to that part yet, since it's been awhile since I did D'arnise quests..But it doesn't strike me as the Roenalls could have been imposing enough to make such a strong impression on Torgal, then there's that Glacius fellow who talks about ''whose sorcery has shown me the way'' in the level above.

    How many trolls hire themselves out to the run of the mill noble family anyway? But yes it could be it's just the Roenalls and people read too much into it, but to me Stronger always seemed like a more impressive individual.
    I always thought, years back before forums ect., that there would be a tie in to Mindflayers.
    Just as there was in Durlag's Tower.
    And then there was the place in the sewers where the note spells out they are trying to infiltrate the city and have been succesful until that point.

    For Isea to have instigated the seige is possible, but that's still only half a plan.
    The second half would be riding to the rescue and claiming Nalia and thereby the Keep/lands.

    I'm not sure what his claim would have been based on had Nalia been killed or disappeared completely (as she does)?
    Athkatla maybe corrupt, but the landed gentry are quite picky about inheritence laws, a relation, even distant, would have had more claim surely?

    AerakarWise_GrimwaldArtonaDaevelon
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    Isea struck me as a foolish, pompous nobleman's son, exactly the kind of person who would be played by a slavery ring, or mind flayers, or whomever.

    AerakarWise_Grimwald
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    Vallmyr said:

    Unpopular Opinion: Bards are radical in 2e (Both PnP and BG)

    I think my charnames are exclusively Bards nowadays, especially with the Bard Hat.

    I guess maybe I just need to git gud at Bards or something, but to me a bard is a poor warrior, a poor thief, and a poor mage all in one. They get facerolled by tough monsters in melee, they take forever to raise their utility skills to 100, and they can't cast Ruby Ray of Reversal, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, or other spells that are a must for any high-level wizard or sorcerer.

  • sazziesazzie Member Posts: 103
    im playing my first ever bard in the NWN original campaign and im loving it! i get my monster summons to boost me and my henchman but im a bit stronger than a mage

    persuade is working heaps more and i still have access to the cloaktower!

    its gotten me thinking i need to be more open to different classes and options a bit more as i was quite snobbery of bards prior to this forum but now i love my NWN bard *_*

    VallmyrAerakarBelgarathMTHWise_Grimwald
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009

    Vallmyr said:

    Unpopular Opinion: Bards are radical in 2e (Both PnP and BG)

    I think my charnames are exclusively Bards nowadays, especially with the Bard Hat.

    I guess maybe I just need to git gud at Bards or something, but to me a bard is a poor warrior, a poor thief, and a poor mage all in one. They get facerolled by tough monsters in melee, they take forever to raise their utility skills to 100, and they can't cast Ruby Ray of Reversal, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, or other spells that are a must for any high-level wizard or sorcerer.
    Its about synergy, you shouldn't focus on just one facet when all their abilities are complimentary.

    DJKajuruAerakar
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    edited February 2017
    The Siege of Dragonspear UI is such a humongous improvement in appearance and usability compared to BG1EE and BG2EE that those games' UIs should be redone in the same style. A full set of IWD2-style spell icons to replace the current ones would improve the UI even further.

    Bards also get Use Any Item and Spike Traps at high levels, so that's something to look forward to. Of course, in general they're a lot more powerful in Icewind Dale, when I think a vanilla Bard is practically mandatory for their War Chant of Sith song and its unlimited healing.

    Unlimited healing, you say? So having to savescum and click the rest button after every other battle in early dungeons was only because I didn't have a bard?

    CrevsDaaksemiticgoddessAerakar
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,213
    edited February 2017



    In ToB, the Improved Bard Song grants big bonuses to the entire party and makes the bard nearly impossible to hit while s/he is singing it.

    Plus with a mislead and simulacrum (from Vhailor's Helm if you have UAI) you can have 3 different characters singing that song. +12 to Thac0/damage and -12 to AC for everyone else (including summons) ain't bad. It also has no range so you can have them singing it while outside of the range of enemies.

    Post edited by elminster on
    JuliusBorisov
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,427
    Wait, Bard Songs stack in BG? Or just Improved Bard Song?

    JuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,213
    edited February 2017
    Vallmyr said:

    Wait, Bard Songs stack in BG? Or just Improved Bard Song?

    Just improved bard song. Pretty sure the Skald song no longer stacks.

    VallmyrCrevsDaakJuliusBorisovThacoBell
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410


    Unlimited healing, you say? So having to savescum and click the rest button after every other battle in early dungeons was only because I didn't have a bard?

    You only get it at level 11, or 220K XP, so you'd still have to deal with early dungeons. But later, yeah, unlimited healing and an AC boost for combat.

  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    By level 11 the game is easy enough that I don't need anything like that, though.

    BelgarathMTH
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,427
    Bards also level up the quickest next to thieves which is a bonus I enjoy quite a lot.

    CrevsDaaksemiticgoddessJuliusBorisovThacoBell
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    Vallmyr said:

    Bards also level up the quickest next to thieves which is a bonus I enjoy quite a lot.

    They actually have the same XP progression table.

    JuliusBorisovWise_Grimwald
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,427
    Yeah I guess I mean like, they are next to each other. Like Bard = Thieves. Sorry for poor wording lol

    CrevsDaakJuliusBorisov
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410

    By level 11 the game is easy enough that I don't need anything like that, though.

    It's earlier than 11 for most classes, though. Anyways, I consider it more of an extreme convenience than a lifesaver, since it lets your divine casters memorize other spells. But on insane, you can get this around Dragon's Eye, for an idea of timeframe.

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 782
    Heirs.DSN works well as an introduction to making things with Unlimited Adventures.
    I almost kept a straight face while writing that

  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    Edwin and Minsc have the best, most enertaining dynamic of any pair of BG companions. It's such a shame the games make them so hard to keep in the same party, watching them argue with each other is more fun than betraying one of them for the other could ever be.

    CrevsDaakAerakarWise_Grimwald
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    edited February 2017

    Edwin and Minsc have the best, most enertaining dynamic of any pair of BG companions. It's such a shame the games make them so hard to keep in the same party, watching them argue with each other is more fun than betraying one of them for the other could ever be.

    That's because Edwin is the best NPC by a country mile in the series.
    (yay, a relevent response and a fit with the thread) :)

    OK , Viconia makes it slightly less than a country mile...

    CrevsDaakAerakarTrauerweide
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,085

    Edwin and Minsc have the best, most enertaining dynamic of any pair of BG companions. It's such a shame the games make them so hard to keep in the same party, watching them argue with each other is more fun than betraying one of them for the other could ever be.

    That's why I install the Tweaks Happy Patch, not to make the game easier, but for more fun. :)

    StummvonBordwehrCrevsDaakAerakarmegamike15
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,610

    Edwin and Minsc have the best, most enertaining dynamic of any pair of BG companions. It's such a shame the games make them so hard to keep in the same party, watching them argue with each other is more fun than betraying one of them for the other could ever be.

    That's why I install the Tweaks Happy Patch, not to make the game easier, but for more fun. :)

    Edwin and Minsc have the best, most enertaining dynamic of any pair of BG companions. It's such a shame the games make them so hard to keep in the same party, watching them argue with each other is more fun than betraying one of them for the other could ever be.

    That's why I install the Tweaks Happy Patch, not to make the game easier, but for more fun. :)
    and that will lead into this: i hate the rep system. it feels forced and it only really applies to npcs. use the happy patch so you can have viconia in a good party and not have to worry about her leaving and also use the don't fight part as well.

    Wise_GrimwaldCrevsDaak
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    edited March 2017

    Edwin and Minsc have the best, most enertaining dynamic of any pair of BG companions. It's such a shame the games make them so hard to keep in the same party, watching them argue with each other is more fun than betraying one of them for the other could ever be.

    That's why I install the Tweaks Happy Patch, not to make the game easier, but for more fun. :)
    Even with that you need to resort to trickery to get Edwin and Minsc together in BG1 and SoD. You have to follow a very specific sequence of steps to do it in BG1 (do Minsc's quest and recruit Dynaheir without talking to Edwin, go back to Edwin with Dynaheir still in your party, and then recruit Edwin), and I don't even remember how I did it in SoD (my guess is Minsc would need to be dead when you recruit Edwin or Edwin dead when you recruit Minsc and Dynaheir, and you would have to resurrect whomever you killed afterwards).

    CrevsDaak
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