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Gay Romance

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  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Bjjorick Gays can adopt kids or use a surrogate. How is that different? They still have kids, in some cases, those children are biologically related to them (Surrogates). In the end, both can have kids in the family, so shouldn't they get that same exemption from taxes? My parents couldn't have kids and I'm adopted, so as you can see, I feel that such a scenario would include such people as my parents or those who choose to adopt children rather than having kids of their own body.

  • AurenRavidelAurenRavidel Member Posts: 139
    Personally I don't understand why we give tax exemptions for people making a lifestyle choice, anyways, no matter what their sexual orientation might be.

    Quartz
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    LadyRhian said:

    @Bjjorick Gays can adopt kids or use a surrogate. How is that different? They still have kids, in some cases, those children are biologically related to them (Surrogates). In the end, both can have kids in the family, so shouldn't they get that same exemption from taxes? My parents couldn't have kids and I'm adopted, so as you can see, I feel that such a scenario would include such people as my parents or those who choose to adopt children rather than having kids of their own body.

    @ladyrhian This brings up other points that may or MAY NOT be issues. With all the research going on with this topic, before they would be allowed the child/marriage tax breaks, some research should be done as to how balanced and well developed children coming out of single sex parent homes are. I grew up with just a mom, my dad long gone because he didn't want to raise kids. I had an older sister and so many times was suffocated and treated differently because i was a different gender. I never was as balanced and well developed as my friends who had both parents. My little bro and sis grew up with a mom and a dad (my step dad, but i was already mid teens when he came into the picture) and they turned out much better.

    A lot of research does show that children need a parent of both genders growing up, and i agree with that. And again, it's natural for a man and a woman to have a child, but 2 men or 2 women having a child requires alot of help. Maybe don't give the marriage tax break but a version of an adopted tax break in those cases? I mean, i hate to think that the whole reason that this fight over homosexuals getting married is over money.

    Maybe my rant doesn't make any sense, but in all honesty, from my experience (i've only been a child growing up once, so it's not proof of anything but me), a child needs a parent of both genders. I think research should be done to see if the children growing up wish same sex parents are as stable and well balanced as children growing up with parents of both genders. And yes, you have bad parents in hetro relationships, but the same will be for parents in homo relationships, so i'm not talking about that. All things being equal, will x = y?

    Also, find out how many gay couples have children. Most i know (eg. MOST I KNOW, this is my experience, NOT PROOF) never showed an intrest in children, regardless of age. I know very few hetro people that choose not to have children. 2 couples. Out of hundreds.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    BjjorickQuartz
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    BjjorickQuartzMoira
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    edited September 2012
    @Bjjorick You're comparing a child raised by a single parent with a child raised by two parents - of course the kid with two is usually going to do better but that has more to do with the amount of personal time and resources available than the sexuality of the parents.

    Here's a summary of 15 studies carried out from 1981 to 1994, all finding that children raised by same sex parents develop no differently than children raised by opposite sex parents:
    http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051012/study-same-sex-parents-raise-well-adjusted-kids

    Here's another one. Sociologists reviewed 81 studies of one- and two-parent families and found that children raised by gay parents are statistically indistinguishable from those raised by straight ones.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-01-21-parentgender21_ST_N.htm
    Bjjorick said:

    Also, find out how many gay couples have children. Most i know (eg. MOST I KNOW, this is my experience, NOT PROOF) never showed an intrest in children, regardless of age. I know very few hetro people that choose not to have children. 2 couples. Out of hundreds.

    About one quarter of same-sex households are raising children:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sex-couples-census-data-trickles-quarter-raising-children/story?id=13850332
    Bjjorick said:

    A lot of research does show that children need a parent of both genders growing up

    Can you cite some?

    fighter_mage_thiefMoira
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Really? Apparently being raised by Female Homosexuals seems to actually help kids better than a mother and father, at least according to one study.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.1992.tb01679.x/abstract
    "To date, however, there is no evidence that the development of children with lesbian or gay parents is compromised in any significant respect relative to that among children of heterosexual parents in otherwise comparable circumstances."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting
    "Consensus
    The scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has been generally consistent in showing that lesbian and gay parents are as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents,[3][4][5] despite the reality that considerable legal discrimination and inequity remain significant challenges for these families.[4] Major associations of mental health professionals in the U.S., Canada, and Australia, have not identified credible empirical research that suggests otherwise.[5][6][7][8][9] Literature indicates that parents’ financial, psychological and physical well-being is enhanced by marriage and that children benefit from being raised by two parents within a legally-recognized union.[5][6][23][24]
    Since the 1970s, it has become increasingly clear that it is family processes (such as the quality of parenting, the psychosocial well-being of parents, the quality of and satisfaction with relationships within the family, and the level of co-operation and harmony between parents) that contribute to determining children’s well-being and ‘outcomes’, rather than family structures, per se, such as the number, gender, sexuality and co-habitation status of parents.[4][23] Since the end of the 1980s, as a result, it has been well established that children and adolescents can adjust just as well in nontraditional settings as in traditional settings.[23]"

    "Until 2010, research on school outcomes for the children of same-sex couples was limited to studies on small samples studies, and meta-analyses thereof. The first large sample study based on US nationally representative data confirmed that "children raised by same-sex couples have no fundamental deficits in making normal progress through school."[34] Gartrell and Bos's longitudinal study of children of lesbian mothers found, through comparison of reports from the children's mothers with reports from non-lesbian parents, that these children did better in school than their counterparts.[33]"

    And I am not trying to be mean here, but perhaps you found your mother's raising of you to feel oppressive because you were the male child of a man who had deserted her. Obviously, she felt differently towards your half-siblings because their father stayed around. Also, you were being raised by a single parent, which *does* have effects on the outcome of the way a child is raised. I honestly don't see how you can extrapolate being raised by just your mother to being raised by a pair of homosexual parents. Your older sister isn't analogous to a parent.

    According to studies, all things being equal, homosexual parents do just as well raising kids as heterosexual parents do. And in some cases, better (Children of Lesbian parents do better in school, apparently).

    Now that we've established that, we can say that treating heterosexual and homosexual marriages unequally is wrong. In outcomes for the kids, there is no difference in quality of the upbringing. Living with homosexual parents is not more likely to make the children homosexual, nor do those parents treat children worse, nor are those children put at a disadvantage compared to children from the household of heterosexual parents in similar circumstances.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Maciak87 said:

    Please, spare us the leftist bullshit.

    Lol, I agree and all but let's not resort to flaming.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    *enters gay bar*
    "There's something most unnatural here, and I want no part of it"
    "Whoa there Imoen!"

    Quartzrexreg
  • Callmee_JohnCallmee_John Member Posts: 23
    Jesus don't aprove gay romance.... lol
    But he had at least 12 bromance relationships!

    rexreg
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    Jorkan said:

    Does that make me gay?

    Nah, that just makes you a troll.

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    @kamuizin (a post long, long ago) Yes, i would say even the worst things we do are natural. I think there is this idea that anything humans do is un-natural as if we are somehow apart from the natural scheme of things (again I can't help but see that as a religious perspective, do forgive me, force of habit!).

    Using "un-natural" to describe specific points in human behaviour just doesn't make sense, we aren't guided by divine providence but by our brains, evolved over millions of years, conditioned by experience of natural stimuli in our own lifetime. i.e We are the product of our environment, at no point has there been some un-natural outside influence introduced to humanity. Are you saying there has been some genesis at some point when un-nature spontaneously occurred? what was it?

    Are beavers un-natural for changing rivers?
    Are plants un-natural for fixing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, preventing global warming that would otherwise some several hundred million years ago have vaporised our oceans? surely that would have been the "natural" course of events.
    Are fish that live in reservoirs un-natural? Or animals that scavenge on our waste?

    Humans do terrible things, I am sure I would look like an awful person if you came up with a load of examples of those and asked me "were they natural?" and forced me to say "yes." But nature isn't bad or good, it just is.

    You are right to accuse me of quibbling about this, but I think it is important even though we use the word "nature" in different ways, such as what it is within our nature to do (existence as a word doesn't really fit) it is in our nature to reason that is why we can actually have moral reasons for doing and not doing things.

    To say an aspect of humanity is outside of nature makes no sense, to say it is outside of our own nature would make more sense (e.g irrational, under the massive assumption that the person in question is rational), but it still just so happens that homosexuality is in an individual's nature, not choice but that has already been said. Therefore, to disagree with homosexuality is irrational, outside general human nature, therefore morally wrong, or as some here might have it "Unnatural."

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,690
    edited September 2012
    @Moomintroll you have a organic nature (for the lack of a better definition) and nature as existence.

    Nature as existence doesn't need life to exist, it's existence. A meteor on space is so much nature than a life being with this position.

    This definition of nature does not push away another use for the same word, nature to define the organic relations between themselfs and the rules that aplly to them.

    What you're doing is using a fallacy based on homonyms, where using 2 words with the same pronunciation and different abrangence of meaning, you supress the existence of the restrictive word and assume as unique only the existence of the more ample meaning.

    And now if i can lemme ask you this: what's your point in attack my "personal" concept of natural/unnatural?

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    @Kamuizin because you said this

    "I truly believe that gay choice isn't a natural choice, and while common and acceptable it isn't what nature programmed for the specie, therefore being thinking beings we can elaborate and mold our tastes out of natural instincts, we're not ruled by our instincts anymore.
    Therefore i only don't agree in expose people who don't have their concepts and minds already defined, as they can be influenced to this behavior not by their choices, what they're entitled to when grow up, but by the surround influence."

    Specifically "it isn't what nature programmed for the specie."

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,690
    Nature programming , inside my concept of organic nature, is instinct, this was just a choice of words to better explain my idea.

    i can change the phrase in the following sentence:
    "I truly believe that gay choice isn't a natural choice, and while common and acceptable it isn't what nature infused as instinct for the specie..."

    If you change my concept of nature for another perspective, obviously it would be impossible to interpret this sentence, therefore or you ask me this question as you did in this post, or you disagree with my concept and discard it totally my view including the acessory justifications.

  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited September 2012
    This videos seem appropriate here.


    Post edited by fighter_mage_thief on
    Moomintroll
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    edited September 2012
    Det said:

    Bjjorick said:

    I think research should be done to see if the children growing up wish same sex parents are as stable and well balanced as children growing up with parents of both genders. And yes, you have bad parents in hetro relationships, but the same will be for parents in homo relationships, so i'm not talking about that. All things being equal, will x = y?

    There have been many many studies as well as an in depth 25 year long study, published in the prestigious journal Pediatrics, which followed 154 lesbian couples as they raised their children. The study showed, overwhelmingly, that homosexual couples raised children to be just as adjusted or even more well adjusted than children raised by heterosexual couples on average.

    Here is a link to an article on the study written by Psychology Today. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201006/25-year-long-study-finds-children-lesbian-parents-may-be-better-adj

    Here is a link to the actual study. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/06/07/peds.2009-3153.abstract?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Bos&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
    any research on 2 men raising children?

    edit: @ladyrhian no doubt about that, i was brought up by a young mom who always told me i was just like my no good dad. I have no doubt that played a role, but the sister comment was in reference to not having a strong male role model around. I deffinately think boys need a strong male role model growing up, and i think females need a strong female role model growing up.

    @Shandyr I do agree with you on alot of points, but i still believe and will always believe homo/bi sexuality is a sin. The same as lying, stealing, adultry, murder, worshipping false idols/etc is a sin. But Jesus didn't come to condemn sinners (Jesus would never stand on a street corner shouting 'fag' or anything like that), and He loved all people equally, and said that all had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I've sinned and i'm still learning to overcome. I know the bible calls it an abomination, but i'm trying hard not to say things like that on here because it truly helps no one. It's been a long month without an off day, so i may not be making sense.

    Just an FYI, when i say i hold it the same as lying, stealing, ADULTRY and MURDER, the bible says that by God's standards, to look at a person with lust is adultry, and to hate a person is to commit murder in your heart. I'm not saying it in the way it may be obviously taken. I'll stop now. :P

  • Bjjorick said:

    Det said:

    Bjjorick said:

    I think research should be done to see if the children growing up wish same sex parents are as stable and well balanced as children growing up with parents of both genders. And yes, you have bad parents in hetro relationships, but the same will be for parents in homo relationships, so i'm not talking about that. All things being equal, will x = y?

    There have been many many studies as well as an in depth 25 year long study, published in the prestigious journal Pediatrics, which followed 154 lesbian couples as they raised their children. The study showed, overwhelmingly, that homosexual couples raised children to be just as adjusted or even more well adjusted than children raised by heterosexual couples on average.

    Here is a link to an article on the study written by Psychology Today. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201006/25-year-long-study-finds-children-lesbian-parents-may-be-better-adj

    Here is a link to the actual study. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/06/07/peds.2009-3153.abstract?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Bos&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
    any research on 2 men raising children?
    I don't think we need any research on this one, it's clear that it would lead to a severe decrease in IQ. That only applies, of course, if the two men are heterosexual.

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    @Fighter_mage_thief thanks for posting that, I love Richard Dawkins.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    TalvraeJaxsbudgie
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208

    Bjjorick said:

    Det said:

    Bjjorick said:

    I think research should be done to see if the children growing up wish same sex parents are as stable and well balanced as children growing up with parents of both genders. And yes, you have bad parents in hetro relationships, but the same will be for parents in homo relationships, so i'm not talking about that. All things being equal, will x = y?

    There have been many many studies as well as an in depth 25 year long study, published in the prestigious journal Pediatrics, which followed 154 lesbian couples as they raised their children. The study showed, overwhelmingly, that homosexual couples raised children to be just as adjusted or even more well adjusted than children raised by heterosexual couples on average.

    Here is a link to an article on the study written by Psychology Today. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201006/25-year-long-study-finds-children-lesbian-parents-may-be-better-adj

    Here is a link to the actual study. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/06/07/peds.2009-3153.abstract?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Bos&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
    any research on 2 men raising children?
    I don't think we need any research on this one, it's clear that it would lead to a severe decrease in IQ. That only applies, of course, if the two men are heterosexual.
    Ouch, and i'm supposed to be the one full of spite/hate? not cool man. My sons (all 3 of them) and very intelligent, go to private school, and are far above average (many awards and the oldest was the 3rd highest gpa in the school for the past 3 years in a row.)

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,690
    The problem of following the bible to the core, is that if you interpret it literally, 90% of Christianity saints are in hell, almost all of them stolen, lied, made false statements, killed (this one probally covers almost 50% of them), among many other "sins". The most funny thing about it is that Christianity has 2000 years, so everyone before the existence of Jesus is in hell? A bit overcrowded this place, no?

    Remember that Christianity is based on suposed interpretations from the apostles, worst than that, selected interpretations, as the ones that conflict with the church institution we're were rejected, today being called "the apocryphal". They not only based the entire Catholicism in 2000 years ago opinions, but they selected the opinions they like most to make the canonical.

    [Deleted User]
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited September 2012
    Bjjorick said:

    Bjjorick said:

    Det said:

    Bjjorick said:

    I think research should be done to see if the children growing up wish same sex parents are as stable and well balanced as children growing up with parents of both genders. And yes, you have bad parents in hetro relationships, but the same will be for parents in homo relationships, so i'm not talking about that. All things being equal, will x = y?

    There have been many many studies as well as an in depth 25 year long study, published in the prestigious journal Pediatrics, which followed 154 lesbian couples as they raised their children. The study showed, overwhelmingly, that homosexual couples raised children to be just as adjusted or even more well adjusted than children raised by heterosexual couples on average.

    Here is a link to an article on the study written by Psychology Today. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201006/25-year-long-study-finds-children-lesbian-parents-may-be-better-adj

    Here is a link to the actual study. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/06/07/peds.2009-3153.abstract?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Bos&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
    any research on 2 men raising children?
    I don't think we need any research on this one, it's clear that it would lead to a severe decrease in IQ. That only applies, of course, if the two men are heterosexual.
    Ouch, and i'm supposed to be the one full of spite/hate? not cool man. My sons (all 3 of them) and very intelligent, go to private school, and are far above average (many awards and the oldest was the 3rd highest gpa in the school for the past 3 years in a row.)
    It was obviously sarcasm :P btw, are you sure your sons aren't gay? JUST SAYING (kidding)

    But on a serious note, coming from a middle to upper class background and going to private school are both linked with a higher IQ, or at the very least, greater academic success.

    Truth is that there are a lot of extremely intelligent/intellectual straight, bisexual and gay men and women. After all, a lot of it has to do with the physiology of a person's brain, although of course having a fine education can sure help unlock a lot of that potential.

    Talvrae
  • @Fighter_mage_thief thanks for posting that, I love Richard Dawkins.

    I added Hitchens to the post as well ^^

  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    @Shandyr

    excellent post, and wanna touch on alot of that. First, the bible says that you will be known by the fruit that you produce. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. So those who go out and judge people as though they are perfect are not christains, they're clinging to an ideal of christainity. Faith without action is dead. That means that if you believe in God, but don't act in accordance with Jesus, you have nothing.

    God is the one that judges. We're supposed to share the gospel, to testify of the works of Jesus, the works He is still doing because a christain knows that Jesus died and rose from the dead. He still lives and still forgive us of our sins. He is still flesh and bone and blood. The bible says to remove the plank from your eye before you help your neighbor remove the splinter from his. Basically, you have enough to worry about walking on the path to judge others. The bible also says "Judge not lest ye be judged according to the standard by which you judge." Translation, if you are perfect, you have the right to judge, because you can be judged and be found innocent. So because we're all sinners, i can't judge you as being a sinner because i am a forgiven sinner. I am still a sinner, i am just covered by the blood of Jesus.

    Now, onto the big one. We are saved (allowed into heaven) "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost", and that "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10

    What that means is that you have to be perfect to get into heaven. You have to have no sin, and when Jesus says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (romans 3:23, guess i should give these out if you want to check me :) ), he's saying that no one can get into heaven. That is why He because our sacrafice, to take our sins from us, if we repent (turn away from sinning) and believe in Him. So we pray and Jesus to forgive our sins, come into our life, and help us live and serve the will of the Father.

    The reason we are saved by mercy is so that we can't brag, boast, and taunt/insult others. Jesus didn't come to condemn, nor should we condemn. I can tell you what i believe (with all of my heart, I have felt the power of the Lord in ways i can't describe) and tell you that God and Jesus are real. But i can't say blah blah blah, because lol, who am i to judge. I can say i believe it's wrong, but i do things that are wrong all my life, and Jesus helps me to overcome. I'm not perfect, and never will be. Only God is perfect.

    Sorry for another long rant, and will share more if you like, not sure if i gave too much details already. :)

    [Deleted User]QuartzSirK8
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    kamuizin said:

    Dude, what i see is a group of persons, with a reactionary and complexed behavior lately, that at any cost want to proof to me that my comments are prejudiced. And all the phrases start with "i don't understand... i'm curious...clarify for me...explain this..."

    People asked my opinion before and the only issue that i have about gay content in terms of isonomy with straight content is a concept of natural/unnatural classification.

    My $.02 is that using the adjective "unnatural" is always going to elicit that kind of reaction because 99% of people find being called unnatural to be a grave insult and therefore the reaction is emotional for anyone who is gay or who is concerned about gays being unfairly maligned. Let's ignore that though and focus on definitions.

    My post wasn't intended to attack you but instead to tell you that I 100% did not understand the relevance of the link you posted that you said clarified your concept of a "restrict" definition of nature. The link did not seem to give the restrictive definition of nature or the distinction between natural and unnatural that is the premise of your argument. Since the definition of both those terms is variable, it is difficult to have a conversation where two people are arguing about X but neither understands what the other really means by X. For that reason, I am trying to figure out what I am supposed to glean from the link.

    Thanks in advance for the clarification!

    Bjjorick
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208

    Bjjorick said:

    Bjjorick said:

    Det said:

    Bjjorick said:

    I think research should be done to see if the children growing up wish same sex parents are as stable and well balanced as children growing up with parents of both genders. And yes, you have bad parents in hetro relationships, but the same will be for parents in homo relationships, so i'm not talking about that. All things being equal, will x = y?

    There have been many many studies as well as an in depth 25 year long study, published in the prestigious journal Pediatrics, which followed 154 lesbian couples as they raised their children. The study showed, overwhelmingly, that homosexual couples raised children to be just as adjusted or even more well adjusted than children raised by heterosexual couples on average.

    Here is a link to an article on the study written by Psychology Today. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201006/25-year-long-study-finds-children-lesbian-parents-may-be-better-adj

    Here is a link to the actual study. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/06/07/peds.2009-3153.abstract?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Bos&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
    any research on 2 men raising children?
    I don't think we need any research on this one, it's clear that it would lead to a severe decrease in IQ. That only applies, of course, if the two men are heterosexual.
    Ouch, and i'm supposed to be the one full of spite/hate? not cool man. My sons (all 3 of them) and very intelligent, go to private school, and are far above average (many awards and the oldest was the 3rd highest gpa in the school for the past 3 years in a row.)
    It was obviously sarcasm :P btw, are you sure your sons aren't gay? JUST SAYING (kidding)

    But on a serious note, coming from a middle to upper class background and going to private school are both linked with a higher IQ, or at the very least, greater academic success.

    Truth is that there are a lot of extremely intelligent/intellectual straight, bisexual and gay men and women. After all, a lot of it has to do with the physiology of a person's brain, although of course having a fine education can sure help unlock a lot of that potential.
    middle to upper class? lol, i'm sure i'm in the lower class bracket man, but me and my wife give up alot for our son's future. Not everything, we still have each other, and my wife will tell you that i spoil her, but lol, If i'm not mistaken, BG:EE is the 2nd game i bought this year for me, the only other was MGS:3ds......

    But yeah, my sons still get games, and they play iwth daddy. And i have lots of old games.

    Oh, and i'm wrong, my WIEF bought me BG:EE :P

  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    @Bjjorick It have been proved that chield raised in Middle class, or above have a better chance in life, there is lot of study that proove it. Dosent mean that childrens coming from lower class can't raise up above his origin provided the parents and the childs work for it... It's the beuaty of a free market word, don't take it as an attack

This discussion has been closed.