So, you're confessing that you're a burglar in RL?
Sneaking /= Open Locks
I move very quietly and have bad habit of and taking perverse pleasure in surprising people by just standing around where they're not expecting me such as around corners or just behind them.
I'm running a skald right now, which is fun. I hadn't played a bard since the Pleistocene so it's a fun challenge.
But for fun, I do like the shadowdancer. I think there's something about disappearing from in front of enemies you are fighting face to face, then watching them turn their backs to you, that is funny and awesome at the same time
My favourite is the blackguard. I love them thematically, and from a role-playing standpoint it makes sense to me that the Bhaal-spawn would be consumed by inner-darkness. I also love melee characters, so it all fits. Add to that, I've always preferred the evil NPCs to the good NPCs from a personality standpoint. After blackguard, I'd say the undead hunter is my favourite, for similar reasons (but in these games charname has overcome the inner-darkness). I also love stalkers and fighter/thieves.
But for fun, I do like the shadowdancer. I think there's something about disappearing from in front of enemies you are fighting face to face, then watching them turn their backs to you, that is funny and awesome at the same time
Thats only half of it. Disappear during the casting of a spell that targets you and it automatically fizzles, lure melee fighters to your position, shadowstep and backstab ranged units. Continously disappear and reappear with crossbow / throwing daggers to turn a dwarf fighter into a pincushion. Among other fun things.
@SomeSort , in your Dwarven F/T play-throughs which weapons do you focus in, e.g. dual-wield scimitars, short swords, daggers? Or go for quarterstaffs/THS? Do you pick-up a ranged? I am thinking of running a dwarven F/T from BG1 to SOD to SoA/TOB after I finish my current play-though and am torn between the various options.
I generally aim to minimize micromanagement, so I don't do much backstabbing. Ranged weapons really aren't that great end-game outside of a few ranged-specific classes. Mostly just melee and traps, (both setting and disarming).
@Aerakar - I had a very good shortie F/T run recently (although mine was a Gnome rather than a Dwarf), in which I started by focusing on Dagger proficiency, which has the particular advantage that it covers ranged as well as melee.
This meant that by half-way through BG1 he already had Dggr2 1WS1 2WS3. Most of the time he was up front dual-wielding his Daggers with the 2WS3, but could also backstab very well with the 1WS1, or hang back to use Throwing Daggers when appropriate. He was *very* effective and flexible, I was a little surprised how very good he turned out to be.
Then I added a Club proficiency in SoD for those situations where blunt damage is advantageous, and eventually also Scimitars and Katanas in BG2. He was impressively effective throughout the saga, an excellent build.
My recent dwarf F/T used qstaffs and xbows in BG1, mainly staffmace and army scythe for backstabbing and kiting. Bolts of biting and lightning tears through BG1 and there's always a good qstaff available. While using staff mace+2 you can also wield a shield and keep on fighting after breaking stealth.
Then in BG2 SoA I switched to daggers and used the boomerang dagger since it works so well both melee (2APR) and ranged. Had qstaff (staff of rynn mainly but also striking) on switch and put my qbow on hold most of the times. I kept Firetooth xbow in inventory for when facing mages.
He's just before Spellhold now, at around 2 million exp and I don't really need a party. So late SoA and ToB I am probably going down the dualwield route since there's not much more to do with the points. Using fire tooth dagger as a speed weapon make it very easy to reach max APR, which can also be done early in SoA using the boomerang dagger in mainhand combined with Belm or Kundane in offhand: Two-weapon fighting 2 APR level 7 fighter 0,5 APR Specialization 0,5 APR Belm/Kundane 1 APR Boomerang dagger 1 APR
I don't use kits at all (except some of the mage specialist classes, and barbarian before he became part of the fighter class (why?)). I don't see the point in them really, as the general classes and multi classes do the job perfectly well for the purposes of running through and finishing the game. The kits seem like unnecessary detail to me.
Even in the case of cleric, where the kits are obvious bonuses and clear advantages, I don't really use the special abilities enough to say that they're really worthwhile or necessary.
I don't use kits at all (except some of the mage specialist classes, and barbarian before he became part of the fighter class (why?)). I don't see the point in them really, as the general classes and multi classes do the job perfectly well for the purposes of running through and finishing the game. The kits seem like unnecessary detail to me.
Even in the case of cleric, where the kits are obvious bonuses and clear advantages, I don't really use the special abilities enough to say that they're really worthwhile or necessary.
Some kits play VERY differently than their base classes. Swashbucklers, for instance, are unlike any other thief.
@Gallowglass I like your build and the dagger focus. I have been considering just this approach. The flexibility from getting ranged/melee with one proficiency set is so advantageous. Plus the role-play possibilities - a shorty thief focused on daggers - is great!
On the blunt weapon focus, I struggle to like clubs, but the synergy with TWS/SWS is obvious. Did you take 2 pips or 1 in clubs? Did you consider skipping SWS/cubs and going for quarterstaff? QS/Staff of Striking could then be the main backstabbing weapon in SoA, with paired dagger-fighting for general melee and ranged.
@Skatan another great F/T build! Yours is the other approach I have been considering - starting with QS/THS and the speed crossbow in BG and then later adding throwing daggers in SoD/SoA - versus the starting dagger-fighter mentioned by @Gallowglass.
As you are using the boomerang dagger for general melee now, did you add a pip in SWS at fighter level 12? Or did you go straight into developing TWF?
On the blunt weapon focus, I struggle to like clubs, but the synergy with TWS/SWS is obvious. Did you take 2 pips or 1 in clubs?
Clubs aren't a popular choice, but there are actually some very good ones in SoD and BG2. Eventually he had 2 proficiencies in Club, but for a while I left that at 1 while I built other proficiencies. (It was a specific RP decision that he'd use only Thief weapons, so that he could backstab with anything he carried.)
Did you consider skipping SWS/cubs and going for quarterstaff? QS/Staff of Striking could then be the main backstabbing weapon in SoA, with paired dagger-fighting for general melee and ranged.
I considered Qstf, yes, but decided to stick to one-handed weapons only, so that he had more flexible choice of what to dual-wield in each situation. If he were designed for a second-row ranged role, then I might well have gone for Qstf to maximise his backstab damage, but this guy was designed to spend most of his time leading from the front in melee, and therefore being able to switch to blunt while still dual-wielding was valuable.
Ok shortie's lovers, for F/T, dwarf? Gnome or halfing?
Obviously my choice was Gnome, as described above.
A Dwarf's DEX penalty is unhelpful for a part-Thief, and (IMO) that outweighs the Dwarf's CON bonus. On the other hand, a Halfling's STR penalty is unhelpful for a part-Fighter, and (IMO) that outweighs the Halfling's DEX bonus. Therefore I reckon that a Gnome, with neither bonuses nor penalties in the relevant stats, is the best compromise for a shortie F/T. However, the relative value of the various bonuses and penalties is naturally affected by how you intend to use the character, so YMMV.
@Skatan another great F/T build! Yours is the other approach I have been considering - starting with QS/THS and the speed crossbow in BG and then later adding throwing daggers in SoD/SoA - versus the starting dagger-fighter mentioned by @Gallowglass.
As you are using the boomerang dagger for general melee now, did you add a pip in SWS at fighter level 12? Or did you go straight into developing TWF?
I did not put a point in SWS, instead I put a point in scimis. In hindsight I should have put that point in TWF instead and kept to daggers 'til I had at least two pips in TWF before branching out to other weapon categories.
My personal opinion on best race for a F/T is probably gnome, but I always play dwarf anyways.
As their racial bonuses both are 40 points, I would think the dwarven +5 poison/death saving throw bonus would outweigh the gnome's +1 dexterity in the long-run since skill points are sufficient later. Counting OL, FT, ST, HiS, and MS, the difference is only 25 points between 17 and 18 dexterity. Admittedly this is a lot in the early game, but soon seems not as important with a few levels and items.
The +1 with ranged that 19 dex has over 18 dex would seem more important for a mainly ranged character, but a F/T seems more of a dexterous brawler to me, which means being up front and in melee and thus getting hit by things where the +5 poison/paralysis/death save comes in handy.
A human F/T gets a thief kit bonuses for very little XP investment and unless this have been nerfed also gets 5 PiPs - its not true that you need to start as fighter to get 5 PiPs if you are human even though a lot of people seems to believe this. So, humans are better than shorties, just saying.
A human F/T gets a thief kit bonuses for very little XP investment and unless this have been nerfed also gets 5 PiPs - its not true that you need to start as fighter to get 5 PiPs if you are human even though a lot of people seems to believe this. So, humans are better than shorties, just saying.
[My bolding for emphasis]
What are you saying, that humans no matter what class they take at first level can dual to thief and still reach GM? Not sure I understand your meaning, but if that is what you are saying I believe you are incorrect. You can still reach GM after dualing, but only if you are fighter (or kit) base class.
Well @Souplesse with the EE content this is now much improved for the short ones. The new NPCs will romance anyone regardless of race. Also gnomes have always been able to romance Aerie, while halflings I believe anyone including Viconia.
At least before EE dwarves truly got the 'shortest' end of the romance short stick. Depending upon whether or not you like the new NPCs, perhaps they still do!
Comments
I move very quietly and have bad habit of and taking perverse pleasure in surprising people by just standing around where they're not expecting me such as around corners or just behind them.
But for fun, I do like the shadowdancer. I think there's something about disappearing from in front of enemies you are fighting face to face, then watching them turn their backs to you, that is funny and awesome at the same time
Though I don't play them as often as I would like.
This meant that by half-way through BG1 he already had Dggr2 1WS1 2WS3. Most of the time he was up front dual-wielding his Daggers with the 2WS3, but could also backstab very well with the 1WS1, or hang back to use Throwing Daggers when appropriate. He was *very* effective and flexible, I was a little surprised how very good he turned out to be.
Then I added a Club proficiency in SoD for those situations where blunt damage is advantageous, and eventually also Scimitars and Katanas in BG2. He was impressively effective throughout the saga, an excellent build.
Then in BG2 SoA I switched to daggers and used the boomerang dagger since it works so well both melee (2APR) and ranged. Had qstaff (staff of rynn mainly but also striking) on switch and put my qbow on hold most of the times. I kept Firetooth xbow in inventory for when facing mages.
He's just before Spellhold now, at around 2 million exp and I don't really need a party. So late SoA and ToB I am probably going down the dualwield route since there's not much more to do with the points. Using fire tooth dagger as a speed weapon make it very easy to reach max APR, which can also be done early in SoA using the boomerang dagger in mainhand combined with Belm or Kundane in offhand:
Two-weapon fighting 2 APR
level 7 fighter 0,5 APR
Specialization 0,5 APR
Belm/Kundane 1 APR
Boomerang dagger 1 APR
Even in the case of cleric, where the kits are obvious bonuses and clear advantages, I don't really use the special abilities enough to say that they're really worthwhile or necessary.
@Dharius , what you said is uncommon! You never use kit?! You play like single thief or single cleric ?! You're kind of "a purist"
On the blunt weapon focus, I struggle to like clubs, but the synergy with TWS/SWS is obvious. Did you take 2 pips or 1 in clubs? Did you consider skipping SWS/cubs and going for quarterstaff? QS/Staff of Striking could then be the main backstabbing weapon in SoA, with paired dagger-fighting for general melee and ranged.
As you are using the boomerang dagger for general melee now, did you add a pip in SWS at fighter level 12? Or did you go straight into developing TWF?
A Dwarf's DEX penalty is unhelpful for a part-Thief, and (IMO) that outweighs the Dwarf's CON bonus. On the other hand, a Halfling's STR penalty is unhelpful for a part-Fighter, and (IMO) that outweighs the Halfling's DEX bonus. Therefore I reckon that a Gnome, with neither bonuses nor penalties in the relevant stats, is the best compromise for a shortie F/T. However, the relative value of the various bonuses and penalties is naturally affected by how you intend to use the character, so YMMV.
My personal opinion on best race for a F/T is probably gnome, but I always play dwarf anyways.
As their racial bonuses both are 40 points, I would think the dwarven +5 poison/death saving throw bonus would outweigh the gnome's +1 dexterity in the long-run since skill points are sufficient later. Counting OL, FT, ST, HiS, and MS, the difference is only 25 points between 17 and 18 dexterity. Admittedly this is a lot in the early game, but soon seems not as important with a few levels and items.
The +1 with ranged that 19 dex has over 18 dex would seem more important for a mainly ranged character, but a F/T seems more of a dexterous brawler to me, which means being up front and in melee and thus getting hit by things where the +5 poison/paralysis/death save comes in handy.
What are you saying, that humans no matter what class they take at first level can dual to thief and still reach GM? Not sure I understand your meaning, but if that is what you are saying I believe you are incorrect. You can still reach GM after dualing, but only if you are fighter (or kit) base class.
The big problem with shorties, is the lack romance ... that's make me sad.
At least before EE dwarves truly got the 'shortest' end of the romance short stick. Depending upon whether or not you like the new NPCs, perhaps they still do!