Another sleepless night (for me) contributed to Frey's latest downfall. He got through to the City and did a minimal amount of work there before being sent to Candlekeep. I only remembered at the last moment what was waiting there and Frey went invisible at the same moment that an acid arrow hit him. He was also targeted with glitterdust, but was well out of sight range of the ogre magi before that hit. So far as I was thinking at all I must have thought that the ogre magi had standard scripts and thus wouldn't know where Frey was when the glitterdust turned him visible again. I did still move him quite a long way round the castle, though as Frey was blinded that was a bit of a pain moving through the unknown terrain, but that was done with the idea of avoiding any chance of a randomly wandering ogre mage finding him. Rather than keep going, establish some defenses, or produce summons I decided then to use Bhaal CLW to cure a bit of the acid arrow damage - and just as the second of those cast a couple of ogre magi turned up. The first let fly with a magic missile that would have killed Frey if he hadn't partly healed, but with only 6 HPs left his chances of surviving the chromatic orb from the second were extremely slim. The projectile for that isn't particularly quick though and Frey ran quite a long way before it had almost caught him. I hoped against hope that had taken enough time for him to be able to now use a potion, but never actually believed that would be possible - and it wasn't ...
Questions about Belhifet (SoD) at solo+LoB: 1) Is there a way to beat him for arcane caster other than "Fireshield" + "Otiluke's R.Sphere"? 2) How to recast "Fireshield"+ORS after first one? This combo works with Fireshield (Blue) with cold damage (B. have 50% res) and do ~80dmg, but when 1st ORS fade off - my sorcerer is surrounded by crowd of devils + boss and it is near impossible to recast both spells (or even more, for example: Stoneskin -> Fireshield -> ORS). I tried invis potions and other stuff, but didnt find a solution yet. 3) Are there enough scrolls in the whole game (f.shield+ors)? Or mod which changes dmg to acid is mandatory for this strategy?
4) @Harpagornis, how you defeated Belhifet with Totemic Druid (and Bounty Hunter)? Sometimes you mention "hit-n-run", but I didnt found how it exactly works for this fight.
p.s. @histamiini, thanks for f/m/t table! I am thinking to choose this class when I try a "no reload" run.
@Lotar I don't really have experience on first three questions, but hit&run tactic consists kiting the mob, and when you get a chance hit Bel (with +3 weapon), then pause immediately, drink invisibility potion and continue kiting. It's possible to do without invisibility I think, but it'll be very hard when they constantly teleport around you when they see you, so you might get trapped.
If you want to know how Mages can beat Big B @Lotar you have to ask @semiticgod. He gave a very detailed explanation which used several glitches like item duplication. I absolutely do NOT recommend things like that for this particular challenge but it shows in a creative way how far you can push the boundaries.
Like @histamiini said hit & run using Invisibility Potions works GREAT - it just needs some training. You will find several posts in this thread here. You just have to be quick so the demons wont get the chance surrounding you. With some Fighter classes like DD or Cavalier you can even tank Big B thanks to Potion of Power stacking and Durlags Goblet.
I am starting to hate the Cleric class or - to be more specific: The Crusader Attacks. Maybe it was just bad luck!
I played on last night with Xaghul and everthing went like a dream - until the Crusader started attacking. The Ogre/Trolls were easier than expected thanks to Web precasting combined with summons Fireballs and Necklace of Missiles. The Coldhearth Undead also did a pretty good job. At the end Xaghul had still to tank 8 Ogre/Trolls but thanks to tank setup, Potion of Power and Durlags Goblet he weared them down one after another dropping to 1 HP once - which gave me a good heart attack.
With PfM, summons and some patience the Mages could do absuletly nothing against Xaghul - too easy.
Too easy? Damn it. Overconfidence went over to the third wave - which proved to be a big fault. Even more as the Warmages could do nothing against them. The Crusaders got paralyzed? Their Clerics dispelled it! I brought in more summons? Their Cavaliers and the backstabbing Assassin took them down immediately. Necklace of Missiles spamming? They just healed up so everyone was still only "barely hurt" before Xaghul himself had to start tanking. And what happened then? Another Dispel Magic out of the dark hit him destroying all Potion of Power stacks - damn it. He still tried to get in some damage but - holy cow - the enemies rolled one 20 after another which forced him to retreat behind the War Mages. While he tried to heal and buff up again the Cavaliers and Clerics killed the Warmages in a way i have never seen before. Normally the Mages can hold the line for quite some time but they got dispelled and destroyed even before Xaghul was at full strength again. He tried to tank the enemies - without success. He started to kite them with Fire Breath potions but some Clerics suddenly must have taken another route and walked right up to Andrus - which triggered the boss wave immediately. Xaghul tried his best kiting but the whole camp got swarmed by Crusaders and two minutes later Andrus died - BOOOOM. GG!
After this painful excursion into the realm of Clerics it might be time to play something that fits me more before maybe going on with Korgath in SoA or Eklun in ToB. It will be interesting to see how Krell the Half-Elf Fighter/Druid will deal with the upcoming challenges. Finally some Druid again. Nature is calling - maybe more!
P.S. At least the Crusader Waves will be much easier for Druids as the past has shown. Well. Should be!
The item duplication trick isn't supposed to work in v2.5 anymore anyway. If you have the right mod, though, you can create your own scrolls at a fairly reasonable cost in gold, though the Wand of Lightning trick, only possible with Spell Revisions or EET, may be necessary to take down Belhifet if you're a single-classed mage with no fighter levels.
Based on my miserable experience with my Fighter/Mage/Thief, I think taking down Belhifet in LoB mode is highly dependent on dealing lots of damage to Belhifet fast. By casting Gate every 4 rounds, Belhifet effectively adds 50 HP worth of enemies to the field every round on average, and because the demons all teleport to you (with the exception of the Erinyes, who don't need to teleport due to using missile weapons), it's extremely easy to get boxed in. In combination with his regeneration, Belhifet should win any war of attrition.
As strong as mages are in BG2 and as powerful as wands are in BG1 and SoD, I'm not sure single-classed mages are equipped to deal with Belhifet. Wands of Frost deal 8d6 cold damage with a save for half, which realistically means a net 5 damage per round considering Belhifet's resistances (50% to cold) and regeneration (2 HP per round), assuming you lower his MR first. Melf's Acid Arrow will add 12 net damage per casting, assuming 0 MR (Belhifet has no resistance against acid or electrical damage).
Doing the numbers confirms that the optimal way to deal damage to Belhifet as a mage is with Melf's Acid Arrows, casting Lower Resistance 5 times followed by 6 Melf's Acid Arrows. That deals 6.5 net damage per round on average and requires 11 rounds of aura.
A level 10 fighter with the Fractal Blade and specialization but not grandmastery, Meilum's gauntlets, and a potion of Storm Giant Strength will deal 23 net damage per round on average and requires no expenditures of aura, allowing the fighter to drink potions and so forth.
Obviously direct damage is not going to win the fight for a mage. But a blue Fire Shield can deal 24 net damage in one round if Belhifet hits you all 4 times. Unfortunately, the most Stoneskins an SoD mage can create per round is 6, combining the Cloak of Arcana or whatever it's called with level 11 for an effective caster level of 12. This means you can't afford to get hit more than 2 other times per round.
Since the other demons (except for the Erinyes) can't see through invisibility, you can use Improved Invisibility to get your mage's AC to -16 vs. everyone but Belhifet, against which it will be -12. That means you'll deal 20.1 damage on average to Belhifet per round, losing 3.4 Stoneskins per round.
So a mage should not break Improved Invisibility; the extra APR will quickly overwhelm the player when the enemies grow in number. That way, only the Erinyes and Belhifet could land hits on the player.
With Fire Shield, every Mirror Image and every Stoneskin will take 39 HP from Belhifet. That means you'd need 30 castings of Mirror Image and Stoneskin total, and maybe 5 castings of Fire Shield: Blue. A Minor Sequencer and a Spell Sequencer from the lich robe would make that 28 and 4, respectively.
I don't think you can't buy that many scrolls. You'd need to create your own with that scroll scribing mod.
However, with Potion of Power stacking and Durlag's Goblet, it should be possible to spend maybe 30 rounds tanking Belhifet without using Mirror Image or Stoneskin scrolls. Belhifet would deal 164 damage per round and you'd deal 26 assuming all hits land, so if you could survive it with sufficient HP or AC below -9, you could take about 500 HP off of Belhifet by drinking all 20 charges from Durlag's Goblet. To finish the job with Mirror Image and Stoneskin, you'd need about 16 castings of Mirror Image and Stoneskin. A specialist mage with the Crown of Lies and Amulet of Metaspell Influence would have 6 and 5 castings, respectively, requiring only 5 scrolls of either spell. Since Fire Shield: Blue will take up precious level 4 spell slot but is very slow-casting and easy to interrupt, I think it boils down to finding enough Fire Shield: Blue scrolls to survive the 40-50 rounds it would take to kill Belhifet.
So a mage might be able to take down Belhifet, albeit with massive difficulty. It would involve hiding behind invisibility to ward off the demons besides Belhifet and the Erinyes, using Potions of Power+Durlag's Goblet and Mirror Image+Stoneskins to survive Belhifet's attacks while Fire Shield: Blue does all the damage. You'd need to hoard a fair number of scrolls and Potions of Power, and you'd definitely want to switch to Mustard Jelly from Polymorph Self when you were relying Potions of Power and Durlag's Goblet, since the jelly form grants 30% resistance to Belhifet's slashing damage and 75% resistance to the Erinyes' arrows.
Your other defense would involve Protection from Cold to block the damage from the Erinyes' Arrows of Ice and two pre-drunk Potions of Magic Protection and the Purification Stone to block Belhifet's fire and Hold Person spells, the Erinyes' Charm Person, Belhifet's poison and disease damage, and the Erinyes' Arrows of Biting.
It should be possible without that scroll scribing mod. But the numbers offer very, VERY little wiggle room for mistakes or bad luck.
Condolences @Grond0, are you still fancying your chances with Frey, after @semiticgod's calculations?
Safe travels @histamiini with your new F/M/T. Hopefully he'll fare better than his predecessor. My only piece of advice is: be careful. I saw you meleed a skeleton at level 2 with your first F/M/T. I'd never dare do such a thing haha.
Good luck with Krell @Harpagornis! Hope Krell's druidic magic will serve you better than Xaghul's clerical magic.
@Lotar, I believe it was @chimaera who succesfully beat Belhifet with fireshields. His was a Item/Spell Revisions install, so I'm not sure if the same principle apply. Are you still around @chimaera? Maybe you could clarify?
Here's my new participant for the challenge: Conlen, Fighter/Mage/Cleric: Conlen's weapon profs are Hammers and Sling. Starting spells were Find Familiar and Shield. (I removed bonus HPs from the ferret familiar beyond the 6 HPs you get in vanilla.)
Conlen's taken my usual route, except for one detour. First south for the little quests in and around Beregost and Nashkel; business as usual. Reached cleric level 2, but didn't level up yet. This is where the detour comes in. Went to the Lighthouse area to get the CON tome. Mind you Conlen barely had the means to deal with the traps in the cave. A Sanctuary cast briefly before triggering the Hold trap ensured safety from a nearby flesh golem after Conlen failed his save. The golem moved away after a while, so even the brief moment between the expiration of the Sanctuary and that of the Hold effect, was uneventful.
The Charm trap was neutralized with the clarity potion from Candlekeep. Why this risky enterprise? @histamiini observed that HP calculations for F/M/Ts require an Einsteinian command of mathematics; well it's no different with F/M/Cs. I wanted to avoid the possibility of Conlen not retroactively getting any HPs he was due with his improved CON. In any case, at 19 CON he gets 5 HPs per Fighter level-up, 3 HPs per Cleric level-up, and 3 HPs per Mage level-up. I fail to see the logic of that.
With that out of the way Conlen started working on his PR, quickly earning himself a reputation of 20. Early quests included some BGQE mod encounters, but excluded Shoal, so the advantage taken of that mod was mostly for a few cheap rep points. Also picked up and sold Drizzt's gear. Up north we had a lot of difficulty pacifying Tenya. Conlen would hit her with his sling, which would make her pause presumably to approach Conlen and ask him to stop. But instead of doing that she continued her hostilities. Maybe he was slinging from too far, giving her too much time and space to change her mind? At one point Conlen lost her, then found her behind her house, and got treated to a Hold Person. He failed to get inside the home, failed his save too, but was fortunate that Tenya lingered in her backyard.
At this point I kind of accepted having to kill her, but a bullet from a closer distance made her see sense after all. Ferret nicked Algernon's cloak and attempted to operate as a decoy against Meilum. Conlen Doomed the warrior, and tried to follow up with a Hold Person. Meilum must have recognized the incantation because he switched targets. Conlen, a bit of gambler just like the one handling him from behind the computer, attempted to finish his casting, and almost paid for it with his life.
We left the map and were successful upon our return.
Only at 15k XP and thus Mage level 3, with an Invisibility learned without INT boosters, did we tackle Mutamin's garden. With the green scroll and Korax for Mutamin and the last two basilisks, we had no trouble clearing the area. (I ran another solo F/M/C who went almost straight to Mutamin's garden last weekend, using the "Basilisk charm loop" all the way to the XP cap, but I felt cheap after that, and abandoned that character. So no charming this time round.)
In Ulgoth's Beard Conlen had a most unfortunate incident with the late Hurgan Stoneblade. You see, Mr Ferret is loyal companion to his master, but a tad unruly. The polecat must have noted the enchanted hammer the dwarf had promised as a reward for Conlen if the latter were to bring him the soultaker dagger. Ferret failed to nick the weapon, and Conlen failed to placate the dwarf. He saw no other option than to summon some skeleton warriors, Doom the dwarf, and Hold him. The event blemished Conlen's reputation. So brother Nalin received a number of generous donations, and the sword coast was traversed once more to restore that reputation. Greywolf was one of the victims of Conlen's redemption tour. He was paralyzed (per the wand) and Held. Krumm and Caldo were also Held and slain.
The basilisks at Durlag's tower were done in by skeleton warriors. One of them dropped a laeral's tear necklace to cover for our expenses at the temple of Helm. The battle horrors were treated to some wand fireballs but Talos lightning stole one of our kills.
Bassilus was taken care of with Algernon's cloak, and three skeletons (all PfE'd by Conlen) were capable of slaying three ankhegs before they'd fall. We ended up killing twelve.
Kirian lost first Lindin and then Baerin to Algernon's charms, before she got charmed herself. This was an important one because Peter noticed and Held Conlen whose aura was still turpid. Kirian successfully tanked the cleric while Conlen was Held. When the latter was free to move again, he Doomed and Held Peter.
Conlen is currently level 6/5/6, circa 17k XP and one level shy of his last level in BG1, level 6 as a Mage. He might go sirine hunting to get his final level-up, or he might just get on with the plot. He already has most of the useful items available to him at this stage of the game, as you can see in the following screenshot:
I have CDTweaks' containers, and I the BG1 NPC Project's ring of human influence for cheaper shopping, but otherwise no mod items. The decorative helmet was a steal from Mr Ferret during the training session with Obe the Illusionist in Candlekeep. As for items we still want: several scrolls and potions are still lacking.
Item Revisions and Spell Revisions would change the calculus in many ways for this challenge. A mage would be much more viable against Belhifet, because the backlash from SR's Mestil's Acid Sheath deals 4d4 acid damage compared vanilla's Fire Shield: Blue's 1d8+2 cold damage, half of which Belhifet will resist. Plus, with a flat duration of 2 turns, Mestil's Acid Sheath will last almost twice as long and deal more than twice as much damage as Fire Shield: Blue.
@Blackraven You remove the Familiar bonus, and I add it. Conlen sure likes challenge more than number Two. Speaking of the bizarre hp logic, I mean who designed that function? I calculated that half-elf F/M/T with 19 con can have 119 hp (with Familiar bonus) vs. Bel, which isn't that far from the Cavalier 135 hp, who couldn't lose the melee battle. Heroism/Power potions add base hp, so more you have naturally the better.
Two has been more careful, traveling only invisible which is great way to avoid wayleys and unnecessary dangers. Con and cha books are easily fetched with two Invisibility spells. This time I also became the master of Mutamin Garden and got the 6/6/7 max level. Hunted some Ankheg's with Acid scrolls to pay up the Sandthief Ring. Which was still with 20rep/20cha 14 bloody thousand. And I still need to conjure another 10k for the WoMS before I can go to the mines.
Desided to pay WoMS with visit to Bassilus. Who I tried to melee foolishly, quickly got smacked so badly that I had to retreat. Went off the map, healed, back, and paralyzed him. One turn was enough to melee him down. Refreshed WoMS and headed to the mines, this time there was no Kobbo shaman to Oracle me.
Mulahey second try. This time I looted the chest first, then WoMS'd him and went invisible. But this time WoMS wasn't enough and he survived with 8 hp left. That point my plan was to hit him with Wand of Fire, distrupt everyone, invisibility and escape. Plans, they are good to have yes? Too bad they don't work. My WoF did only 7 damage to him, in a panic I quickly jumped on him to melee him down and
Sandthief Ring saved my ass, recovered, hit the mob with WoF which distrupted it, went invisible and made my glorious escape. Two proved himself today, escaping by the skin of teeth. Nimbul succumbed to WoMS, guards and Rasaad gangbang, Karlat WoMS, Tranzig WoMS. Lamalha tried to waylay me but I quickly said bye to her. Next up Bandit Camp.
Now that I think of it did WoF do 7 damage because his min 1 hp surrender script?
Condolences @Grond0, are you still fancying your chances with Frey, after @semiticgod's calculations?
@Blackraven given I have zero experience with that fight in LoB I don't think I fancy them at all - but then I never did. Just getting there looks like more than enough challenge for me anyway!
As my own personal rules forbid Durlag's Goblet, the prospects for tanking may potentially be worse than suggested anyway. However, I'm not sure that things are actually quite as bad as painted. In the early stages of the fight, while Belhifet is summoning more enemies, I'm assuming a mobile strategy is needed - in addition to Melf's acid arrows it should be possible therefore to do a bit of extra damage with +3 bullets. Later on, I'm assuming the strategy moves into huddling in a corner somewhere. At this stage I'm not sure that @semiticgod has taken account of the use of Otiluke's. If you can get Belhifet's HPs down low enough then he should manage to finish himself off against a fire-shielded Otiluke's with significantly less demand on stoneskins and mirrors than suggested.
@histamiini, congrats on surviving that fix you were in! Careful with the bandits if you decide to fight them. Venkt does have that nice Spell Thrust scroll, which could be useful later on, but I find it one of the harder chapter end fights. @Grond0, I admire your realism (I'm more of a dreamer), and I'm intrigued by your ideas on using Otiluke's. Is there no risk of it getting dispelled?
@Blackraven like I said I have zero direct knowledge about that fight with LoB. My understanding from what others have said is that dispel magic is only used in that fight at the start, but I may be wrong in that. I was assuming that a sorcerer would have access to spell immunity to protect against an initial dispel magic, though trying to keep such protection up throughout a fight would be more challenging.
There's only one Dispel Magic, at the start of combat, and I believe it's possible to simply escape the area of effect by fleeing and letting Caelar take the hit.
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere may well work unless Belhifet's script tells him not to attack critters with high damage resistances.
Krell started his journey and so far no problems or close calls. He did the usual "Kite Shoal (36 bullet stones) and get some gold" quests before proceeding with a minimal Baslisik-XP-Loop. After reaching level 5/6 he switched back to his old "Kill Dushai (6 tries only) and get reputation back" strategy while also doing all easy XP quests along the way. It didnt took too long and reputation 20 was hit while level 6/7 will also be in reach shortly. Time to start the main quest after buying Sandthief Ring and Greenstone Amulet.
I would write more but - for whatever reason - Krells path has been really smooth so far. Even the ambushs were quite uneventful as mostly non-hostile dogs wanted to say hello. Thanks to Ankheg Armor Krell is well protected against most attacks while Drizzts Scimitar give him quite a punch in close combat.
Oh, i just had forgotten how powerful the Nymphs can be. Only two of them are enough at the moment to kill most opposition in no time thanks to hard hitting Lightning Strikes combined with Hold Person. Who needs Skeletons? No one!
Bandit Camp. My Cavalier destroyed the camp with 24 strikes from the neglace, but I decided against it being too risky. Tried charming Taurgosz, but it failed and had to escape off the map everybody on my tail. Rest, back and this time it charmed him, and he got wasted in no time, invisibility. Got his Full Plate. This also conviniently emptyed the camp, so I started CH4 with no problems. Well this was easy, and quick. But I still wanted some of the items, so I charmed Hakt for his bow, and then Venkt. Both with first try. Nothing else left there to do so I headed to Cloakwood, and escaped Molkars waylay.
Didn't try anything in Cloakwood as F/M/T isn't Cavalier who can trivialize spiders. On the other hand this is going very quick because I can skip every pointless event. Tried charming Drasus couple times, but couldn't, so I charmed Genthore who got quickly wasted. Escaped off the map, rest, and when I came back only Drasus was there. Tried WoMS him, but the two mages were sneakily invisible and joined the battle. Escape, rest, back and mages were visible, so I charmed Rezdan, then Kysus. Lastly I WoMS'd Drasus.
Went through the mines invisible not bothering anything, I was planning to charm Hareishan but he was invisible so I skipped him. Last level, WoMS'd the guard. Tried charming Davaeorn, but he saved, escaped to level 3, and with invisibility rested. Guards spwned, but luckily I was still invisible, another room and they still spawned, 3rd room and now I got rest in. Man that 24h mage invisibility is good insurance. So I tried charming Davaeron another 6 times to no avail. Next time I tried this he summoned his guards, but Sandthief ring got me back to level 3. Rested, came back and his guards just surrounded him everytime, so I continued this. And about 10 tries more it finally charmed him. Before flooding the mine I actually charm/killed Natasha and Hareishan who was back, and looted the place pretty good.
This is going pretty smoothly, more so than with Cavalier. Three methods of invisibility and charm goes a long way. Next to Baldurs Gate before risking to Durlag's Tower, which to be honest, I some what scared of. Although it's not too long ago when I played it so I should remember the dangers there.
Looks like the only resistances Belhifet checks are fire and magic; he should be perfectly willing to attack somebody under the effects of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere.
But I made a calculation error in a previous post. Fire Shield: Blue would deal 13 damage per round to Belhifet due to his resistances; not 26. You would need 10 castings of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and 10 castings of Fire Shield: Blue to take him down. So the scroll scribing mod would be necessary to win it without relying on luck; I doubt you could get 10 scrolls of Fire Shield: Blue.
With Spell Revisions installed, you'd just need 3 castings of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and 2 castings of Mestil's Acid Sheath to kill Belhifet. ORS is fast-casting in SR, so you'd only need one scroll of Mestil's Acid Sheath to make sure you could cast everything reliably. Bear in mind that when ORS wears off, you'll always have no Stoneskins and Mirror Images, so you should drink Potions of Power beforehand to make sure you don't die because your next Stoneskin spell got interrupted on the wrong frame.
A bit too much @Grond0 - style took over after the nearly boring starting phase with Krell.
Even though Mulahey was charmed and feeded like always without problems, Tranzig for some reason reacted far better than usually. He ignored all summons and tried to get vision on Krell at all costs - which he managed to do somehow even though i did not saw him at any point. The result: A Chromatic Orb out of the dark through the walls. What? Even with the fast-as-lightning Bear Form Krell was unable to avoid the spell or buff up against it. Save or Die was the now the question. Half a second later it was clear: Save!
Shortly after Tranzig went down to some good beating - time for Bandit Camp. Here Krell charmed Taurgosz first to use him against the bosses inside the tent. He buffed up against Lightning as well as a potential Horror and sneaked in inivisible. To save another charge from the Sandthief Ring Krell just tried to use his superior Bear speed to get out of the tent fast. This part worked. Venkt, Britik and three Elite Archer followed with Taurgosz waiting for them. Now i thought to be clever waiting outside the camp until Taurgosz went down but - Venkt had somehow followed me and immediately casted Chromatic Orb. Too good that i had bought NO magic blocking potion in High Hedge before. The spell landed and - great - another save. Luck is on my side!
After some more running Venkt - for what reason ever - lost his interest in Krell returning to Taurgosz who had managed to kill Britik in the meanwhile. But Venkt and the Elites were too much so he dropped down shortly after. Krell quickly rushed in, collected the loot and moved out before any more spells could land. Time for Cloakwood. Well - at least that was the plan. But after some resting Krell realized that the talking had not triggered so Cloakwood was still closed. Damn it. Another costly charge from the Sandthief Ring later he was back in the tent and now the talking popped up. Finally.
At least the run is getting interesting again. Well - lets see how far we can push our luck! No?
Oh, i just had forgotten how powerful the Nymphs can be. Only two of them are enough at the moment to kill most opposition in no time thanks to hard hitting Lightning Strikes combined with Hold Person. Who needs Skeletons? No one!
The thing about nymphs on LoB is the +12 (?) to level affects their lightning damage greatly and hold monster with the -2 to saves and no creature restriction is a very highlevel spell too. (Is it even available for players?)
@Victor_Creed_SFV: Only mages can cast Hold Monster in BG1, since they hit level 9 at 135,000 XP. Sorcerers can't cast it until level 10, which requires 250,000 XP and is beyond the BG1 XP cap of 161,000.
@semiticgod, Halbazzar Drin sells 20 scrolls of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere scrolls in BG1 in my install. In my SoD savegame with Oaen (who hoarded quite a lot of spells), I have 6x Fireshield: Blue, so I agree that aTweaks' scroll scribing mod seems necessary for this strategy. @Victor_Creed_SFV, mages can get Hold Monster as a level 5 spell, and it's actually one of few disablers that can work against Belhifet whose LoB save vs spells is 0. So the spell's -2 modifier, together with Doom (-2) and Malison (-4), will force Belhifet to roll 9 or higher in order not to be Held. You'll still need to lower his resistance, and get rid of his improved invisibility which comes with a +4 bonus to saves. @Harpagornis, man, Krell's been very very lucky!! Hope it won't run out
@Blackraven: If you can cast Doom on Belhifet, you can also use Chant, and make Belhifet roll a 10 or higher, for a 50% chance of 10 rounds of helplessness. A cleric/mage could deal just over 500 damage to Belhifet with the right set of buffs (I'm counting everything, including minor buffs like Aid); a fighter/mage/cleric could deal just shy of 800 damage. It would definitely take down Belhifet for the FMC, who already has good damage output, but the cleric/mage would still need to pull some other tricks to deal the remaining 600+ damage.
I don't know how many Hold Monster scrolls are available, but these are the probabilities of holding him at least once in LoB mode, given the following buffs and number of Hold Monster spells cast:
With Greater Malison alone: 1 casting: 25% 2 castings: 43% 3 castings: 58% 4 castings: 68% 5 castings: 76% 6 castings: 82% (FMT maximum before Lower Resistance runs out and you have to start over) 7 castings: 87% (fighter/mage maximum) 8 castings: 90% 9 castings: 92% 10 castings: 94%
Good numbers for a no-reload run, but it's an extremely intensive process. You need five Lower Resistance spells to drop his MR to zero (or a Magic Resistance spell plus two Lower Resistance spells, but Magic Resistance takes a whole round cast and is easy to interrupt), plus a Greater Malison spell, plus a divination spell if you don't have access to Detect Illusions, and clerics will also want to cast Doom and Chant. That's 4-9 spells total without even counting the first Hold Monster spell you throw out, and a surprise Improved Invisibility could drag out the process even longer. That's not great, considering Lower Resistance only lasts for 12 rounds at most if you have 11 mage levels and wear the right cloak.
It's a huge investment in spells per round, and limited access to scrolls and level 5 spell slots will keep most characters from realistically hitting a 90% chance of success or higher.
@semiticgod: Its a huge investment indeed. And even if it works Big B has still dropped zero HP while his demons are all around him. It also happens to me that after dispelling his Improved Invisibility he immediately refreshed it . Sometimes he was waiting one or two rounds. His Magic Resistance is also somewhat strange: I remember using five Lower Magic Resistances in a row (which should put him to 0) but the log still claimed that he resisted my spells from time to time...
@Harpagornis: Belhifet has 80% innate magic resistance and another 20% from a sword, which I believe he only equips on higher difficulties (it's a carbon copy of another sword on his .cre file, aside from the 20% MR). With five Lower Resistance spells in a row, the only way Belhifet could retain any MR is if your caster level was 9 and therefore left him with 5% MR. Otherwise, it's a bug of some sort.
"Bug: Mobs follow your current location after stealthing instead of your "last" location" That's very good news, even tho I got used to this and thougt it was supposed to be "advanced" A.I.
Comments
1) Is there a way to beat him for arcane caster other than "Fireshield" + "Otiluke's R.Sphere"?
2) How to recast "Fireshield"+ORS after first one? This combo works with Fireshield (Blue) with cold damage (B. have 50% res) and do ~80dmg, but when 1st ORS fade off - my sorcerer is surrounded by crowd of devils + boss and it is near impossible to recast both spells (or even more, for example: Stoneskin -> Fireshield -> ORS).
I tried invis potions and other stuff, but didnt find a solution yet.
3) Are there enough scrolls in the whole game (f.shield+ors)? Or mod which changes dmg to acid is mandatory for this strategy?
4)
@Harpagornis, how you defeated Belhifet with Totemic Druid (and Bounty Hunter)? Sometimes you mention "hit-n-run", but I didnt found how it exactly works for this fight.
p.s.
@histamiini, thanks for f/m/t table!
I am thinking to choose this class when I try a "no reload" run.
And welcome!
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40393/maybe-this-time-no-reload-thread-arbane-and-the-little-sword-that-could/p231
Like @histamiini said hit & run using Invisibility Potions works GREAT - it just needs some training. You will find several posts in this thread here. You just have to be quick so the demons wont get the chance surrounding you. With some Fighter classes like DD or Cavalier you can even tank Big B thanks to Potion of Power stacking and Durlags Goblet.
I played on last night with Xaghul and everthing went like a dream - until the Crusader started attacking. The Ogre/Trolls were easier than expected thanks to Web precasting combined with summons Fireballs and Necklace of Missiles. The Coldhearth Undead also did a pretty good job. At the end Xaghul had still to tank 8 Ogre/Trolls but thanks to tank setup, Potion of Power and Durlags Goblet he weared them down one after another dropping to 1 HP once - which gave me a good heart attack.
With PfM, summons and some patience the Mages could do absuletly nothing against Xaghul - too easy.
Too easy? Damn it. Overconfidence went over to the third wave - which proved to be a big fault. Even more as the Warmages could do nothing against them. The Crusaders got paralyzed? Their Clerics dispelled it! I brought in more summons? Their Cavaliers and the backstabbing Assassin took them down immediately. Necklace of Missiles spamming? They just healed up so everyone was still only "barely hurt" before Xaghul himself had to start tanking. And what happened then? Another Dispel Magic out of the dark hit him destroying all Potion of Power stacks - damn it. He still tried to get in some damage but - holy cow - the enemies rolled one 20 after another which forced him to retreat behind the War Mages. While he tried to heal and buff up again the Cavaliers and Clerics killed the Warmages in a way i have never seen before. Normally the Mages can hold the line for quite some time but they got dispelled and destroyed even before Xaghul was at full strength again. He tried to tank the enemies - without success. He started to kite them with Fire Breath potions but some Clerics suddenly must have taken another route and walked right up to Andrus - which triggered the boss wave immediately. Xaghul tried his best kiting but the whole camp got swarmed by Crusaders and two minutes later Andrus died - BOOOOM. GG!
P.S. At least the Crusader Waves will be much easier for Druids as the past has shown. Well. Should be!
Based on my miserable experience with my Fighter/Mage/Thief, I think taking down Belhifet in LoB mode is highly dependent on dealing lots of damage to Belhifet fast. By casting Gate every 4 rounds, Belhifet effectively adds 50 HP worth of enemies to the field every round on average, and because the demons all teleport to you (with the exception of the Erinyes, who don't need to teleport due to using missile weapons), it's extremely easy to get boxed in. In combination with his regeneration, Belhifet should win any war of attrition.
As strong as mages are in BG2 and as powerful as wands are in BG1 and SoD, I'm not sure single-classed mages are equipped to deal with Belhifet. Wands of Frost deal 8d6 cold damage with a save for half, which realistically means a net 5 damage per round considering Belhifet's resistances (50% to cold) and regeneration (2 HP per round), assuming you lower his MR first. Melf's Acid Arrow will add 12 net damage per casting, assuming 0 MR (Belhifet has no resistance against acid or electrical damage).
Doing the numbers confirms that the optimal way to deal damage to Belhifet as a mage is with Melf's Acid Arrows, casting Lower Resistance 5 times followed by 6 Melf's Acid Arrows. That deals 6.5 net damage per round on average and requires 11 rounds of aura.
A level 10 fighter with the Fractal Blade and specialization but not grandmastery, Meilum's gauntlets, and a potion of Storm Giant Strength will deal 23 net damage per round on average and requires no expenditures of aura, allowing the fighter to drink potions and so forth.
Obviously direct damage is not going to win the fight for a mage. But a blue Fire Shield can deal 24 net damage in one round if Belhifet hits you all 4 times. Unfortunately, the most Stoneskins an SoD mage can create per round is 6, combining the Cloak of Arcana or whatever it's called with level 11 for an effective caster level of 12. This means you can't afford to get hit more than 2 other times per round.
Since the other demons (except for the Erinyes) can't see through invisibility, you can use Improved Invisibility to get your mage's AC to -16 vs. everyone but Belhifet, against which it will be -12. That means you'll deal 20.1 damage on average to Belhifet per round, losing 3.4 Stoneskins per round.
Other demons will also take away Stoneskins:
Per round on average, based on APR and THAC0:
Belhifet: 3.4 hits
Cornugon: 0.45 hits
Erinyes: 0.3 hits
Abishai: 0.2 hits
Hephernaan: 1 hit
Which is just under the maximum 6, assuming one of every critter is attacking at once. The Golden Girdle and Boots of Avoidance will reduce the hits:
Belhifet: 2.8 hits
Cornugon: 0.15
Erinyes: 0.15 hits
Abishai: 0.2 hits
Hephernaan: 0.4 hits
Which is about 4 total.
So a mage should not break Improved Invisibility; the extra APR will quickly overwhelm the player when the enemies grow in number. That way, only the Erinyes and Belhifet could land hits on the player.
With Fire Shield, every Mirror Image and every Stoneskin will take 39 HP from Belhifet. That means you'd need 30 castings of Mirror Image and Stoneskin total, and maybe 5 castings of Fire Shield: Blue. A Minor Sequencer and a Spell Sequencer from the lich robe would make that 28 and 4, respectively.
I don't think you can't buy that many scrolls. You'd need to create your own with that scroll scribing mod.
However, with Potion of Power stacking and Durlag's Goblet, it should be possible to spend maybe 30 rounds tanking Belhifet without using Mirror Image or Stoneskin scrolls. Belhifet would deal 164 damage per round and you'd deal 26 assuming all hits land, so if you could survive it with sufficient HP or AC below -9, you could take about 500 HP off of Belhifet by drinking all 20 charges from Durlag's Goblet. To finish the job with Mirror Image and Stoneskin, you'd need about 16 castings of Mirror Image and Stoneskin. A specialist mage with the Crown of Lies and Amulet of Metaspell Influence would have 6 and 5 castings, respectively, requiring only 5 scrolls of either spell. Since Fire Shield: Blue will take up precious level 4 spell slot but is very slow-casting and easy to interrupt, I think it boils down to finding enough Fire Shield: Blue scrolls to survive the 40-50 rounds it would take to kill Belhifet.
So a mage might be able to take down Belhifet, albeit with massive difficulty. It would involve hiding behind invisibility to ward off the demons besides Belhifet and the Erinyes, using Potions of Power+Durlag's Goblet and Mirror Image+Stoneskins to survive Belhifet's attacks while Fire Shield: Blue does all the damage. You'd need to hoard a fair number of scrolls and Potions of Power, and you'd definitely want to switch to Mustard Jelly from Polymorph Self when you were relying Potions of Power and Durlag's Goblet, since the jelly form grants 30% resistance to Belhifet's slashing damage and 75% resistance to the Erinyes' arrows.
Your other defense would involve Protection from Cold to block the damage from the Erinyes' Arrows of Ice and two pre-drunk Potions of Magic Protection and the Purification Stone to block Belhifet's fire and Hold Person spells, the Erinyes' Charm Person, Belhifet's poison and disease damage, and the Erinyes' Arrows of Biting.
It should be possible without that scroll scribing mod. But the numbers offer very, VERY little wiggle room for mistakes or bad luck.
P.S. Dont forget to protect against Fear aura otherwise your whole preparation will quickly become obsolete.
Safe travels @histamiini with your new F/M/T. Hopefully he'll fare better than his predecessor. My only piece of advice is: be careful. I saw you meleed a skeleton at level 2 with your first F/M/T. I'd never dare do such a thing haha.
Good luck with Krell @Harpagornis! Hope Krell's druidic magic will serve you better than Xaghul's clerical magic.
@Lotar, I believe it was @chimaera who succesfully beat Belhifet with fireshields. His was a Item/Spell Revisions install, so I'm not sure if the same principle apply.
Are you still around @chimaera? Maybe you could clarify?
Here's my new participant for the challenge: Conlen, Fighter/Mage/Cleric:
Conlen's weapon profs are Hammers and Sling. Starting spells were Find Familiar and Shield. (I removed bonus HPs from the ferret familiar beyond the 6 HPs you get in vanilla.)
Conlen's taken my usual route, except for one detour. First south for the little quests in and around Beregost and Nashkel; business as usual. Reached cleric level 2, but didn't level up yet. This is where the detour comes in. Went to the Lighthouse area to get the CON tome. Mind you Conlen barely had the means to deal with the traps in the cave. A Sanctuary cast briefly before triggering the Hold trap ensured safety from a nearby flesh golem after Conlen failed his save. The golem moved away after a while, so even the brief moment between the expiration of the Sanctuary and that of the Hold effect, was uneventful.
With that out of the way Conlen started working on his PR, quickly earning himself a reputation of 20. Early quests included some BGQE mod encounters, but excluded Shoal, so the advantage taken of that mod was mostly for a few cheap rep points. Also picked up and sold Drizzt's gear.
Up north we had a lot of difficulty pacifying Tenya. Conlen would hit her with his sling, which would make her pause presumably to approach Conlen and ask him to stop. But instead of doing that she continued her hostilities. Maybe he was slinging from too far, giving her too much time and space to change her mind? At one point Conlen lost her, then found her behind her house, and got treated to a Hold Person. He failed to get inside the home, failed his save too, but was fortunate that Tenya lingered in her backyard.
Ferret nicked Algernon's cloak and attempted to operate as a decoy against Meilum. Conlen Doomed the warrior, and tried to follow up with a Hold Person. Meilum must have recognized the incantation because he switched targets. Conlen, a bit of gambler just like the one handling him from behind the computer, attempted to finish his casting, and almost paid for it with his life.
Only at 15k XP and thus Mage level 3, with an Invisibility learned without INT boosters, did we tackle Mutamin's garden. With the green scroll and Korax for Mutamin and the last two basilisks, we had no trouble clearing the area. (I ran another solo F/M/C who went almost straight to Mutamin's garden last weekend, using the "Basilisk charm loop" all the way to the XP cap, but I felt cheap after that, and abandoned that character. So no charming this time round.)
In Ulgoth's Beard Conlen had a most unfortunate incident with the late Hurgan Stoneblade. You see, Mr Ferret is loyal companion to his master, but a tad unruly. The polecat must have noted the enchanted hammer the dwarf had promised as a reward for Conlen if the latter were to bring him the soultaker dagger. Ferret failed to nick the weapon, and Conlen failed to placate the dwarf. He saw no other option than to summon some skeleton warriors, Doom the dwarf, and Hold him. The event blemished Conlen's reputation. So brother Nalin received a number of generous donations, and the sword coast was traversed once more to restore that reputation. Greywolf was one of the victims of Conlen's redemption tour. He was paralyzed (per the wand) and Held. Krumm and Caldo were also Held and slain.
The basilisks at Durlag's tower were done in by skeleton warriors. One of them dropped a laeral's tear necklace to cover for our expenses at the temple of Helm. The battle horrors were treated to some wand fireballs but Talos lightning stole one of our kills.
Bassilus was taken care of with Algernon's cloak, and three skeletons (all PfE'd by Conlen) were capable of slaying three ankhegs before they'd fall. We ended up killing twelve.
Kirian lost first Lindin and then Baerin to Algernon's charms, before she got charmed herself. This was an important one because Peter noticed and Held Conlen whose aura was still turpid. Kirian successfully tanked the cleric while Conlen was Held. When the latter was free to move again, he Doomed and Held Peter.
Conlen is currently level 6/5/6, circa 17k XP and one level shy of his last level in BG1, level 6 as a Mage. He might go sirine hunting to get his final level-up, or he might just get on with the plot. He already has most of the useful items available to him at this stage of the game, as you can see in the following screenshot:
Two has been more careful, traveling only invisible which is great way to avoid wayleys and unnecessary dangers. Con and cha books are easily fetched with two Invisibility spells. This time I also became the master of Mutamin Garden and got the 6/6/7 max level. Hunted some Ankheg's with Acid scrolls to pay up the Sandthief Ring. Which was still with 20rep/20cha 14 bloody thousand. And I still need to conjure another 10k for the WoMS before I can go to the mines.
Mulahey second try. This time I looted the chest first, then WoMS'd him and went invisible. But this time WoMS wasn't enough and he survived with 8 hp left. That point my plan was to hit him with Wand of Fire, distrupt everyone, invisibility and escape. Plans, they are good to have yes? Too bad they don't work. My WoF did only 7 damage to him, in a panic I quickly jumped on him to melee him down and
Sandthief Ring saved my ass, recovered, hit the mob with WoF which distrupted it, went invisible and made my glorious escape. Two proved himself today, escaping by the skin of teeth.
Now that I think of it did WoF do 7 damage because his min 1 hp surrender script?
As my own personal rules forbid Durlag's Goblet, the prospects for tanking may potentially be worse than suggested anyway. However, I'm not sure that things are actually quite as bad as painted. In the early stages of the fight, while Belhifet is summoning more enemies, I'm assuming a mobile strategy is needed - in addition to Melf's acid arrows it should be possible therefore to do a bit of extra damage with +3 bullets. Later on, I'm assuming the strategy moves into huddling in a corner somewhere. At this stage I'm not sure that @semiticgod has taken account of the use of Otiluke's. If you can get Belhifet's HPs down low enough then he should manage to finish himself off against a fire-shielded Otiluke's with significantly less demand on stoneskins and mirrors than suggested.
@Grond0, I admire your realism (I'm more of a dreamer), and I'm intrigued by your ideas on using Otiluke's. Is there no risk of it getting dispelled?
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere may well work unless Belhifet's script tells him not to attack critters with high damage resistances.
I would write more but - for whatever reason - Krells path has been really smooth so far. Even the ambushs were quite uneventful as mostly non-hostile dogs wanted to say hello. Thanks to Ankheg Armor Krell is well protected against most attacks while Drizzts Scimitar give him quite a punch in close combat.
Oh, i just had forgotten how powerful the Nymphs can be. Only two of them are enough at the moment to kill most opposition in no time thanks to hard hitting Lightning Strikes combined with Hold Person. Who needs Skeletons? No one!
Didn't try anything in Cloakwood as F/M/T isn't Cavalier who can trivialize spiders. On the other hand this is going very quick because I can skip every pointless event. Tried charming Drasus couple times, but couldn't, so I charmed Genthore who got quickly wasted. Escaped off the map, rest, and when I came back only Drasus was there. Tried WoMS him, but the two mages were sneakily invisible and joined the battle. Escape, rest, back and mages were visible, so I charmed Rezdan, then Kysus. Lastly I WoMS'd Drasus.
Went through the mines invisible not bothering anything, I was planning to charm Hareishan but he was invisible so I skipped him. Last level, WoMS'd the guard. Tried charming Davaeorn, but he saved, escaped to level 3, and with invisibility rested. Guards spwned, but luckily I was still invisible, another room and they still spawned, 3rd room and now I got rest in. Man that 24h mage invisibility is good insurance. So I tried charming Davaeron another 6 times to no avail. Next time I tried this he summoned his guards, but Sandthief ring got me back to level 3. Rested, came back and his guards just surrounded him everytime, so I continued this. And about 10 tries more it finally charmed him. Before flooding the mine I actually charm/killed Natasha and Hareishan who was back, and looted the place pretty good.
This is going pretty smoothly, more so than with Cavalier. Three methods of invisibility and charm goes a long way. Next to Baldurs Gate before risking to Durlag's Tower, which to be honest, I some what scared of. Although it's not too long ago when I played it so I should remember the dangers there.
But I made a calculation error in a previous post. Fire Shield: Blue would deal 13 damage per round to Belhifet due to his resistances; not 26. You would need 10 castings of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and 10 castings of Fire Shield: Blue to take him down. So the scroll scribing mod would be necessary to win it without relying on luck; I doubt you could get 10 scrolls of Fire Shield: Blue.
With Spell Revisions installed, you'd just need 3 castings of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and 2 castings of Mestil's Acid Sheath to kill Belhifet. ORS is fast-casting in SR, so you'd only need one scroll of Mestil's Acid Sheath to make sure you could cast everything reliably. Bear in mind that when ORS wears off, you'll always have no Stoneskins and Mirror Images, so you should drink Potions of Power beforehand to make sure you don't die because your next Stoneskin spell got interrupted on the wrong frame.
Even though Mulahey was charmed and feeded like always without problems, Tranzig for some reason reacted far better than usually. He ignored all summons and tried to get vision on Krell at all costs - which he managed to do somehow even though i did not saw him at any point. The result: A Chromatic Orb out of the dark through the walls. What? Even with the fast-as-lightning Bear Form Krell was unable to avoid the spell or buff up against it. Save or Die was the now the question. Half a second later it was clear: Save!
Shortly after Tranzig went down to some good beating - time for Bandit Camp. Here Krell charmed Taurgosz first to use him against the bosses inside the tent. He buffed up against Lightning as well as a potential Horror and sneaked in inivisible. To save another charge from the Sandthief Ring Krell just tried to use his superior Bear speed to get out of the tent fast. This part worked. Venkt, Britik and three Elite Archer followed with Taurgosz waiting for them. Now i thought to be clever waiting outside the camp until Taurgosz went down but - Venkt had somehow followed me and immediately casted Chromatic Orb. Too good that i had bought NO magic blocking potion in High Hedge before. The spell landed and - great - another save. Luck is on my side!
After some more running Venkt - for what reason ever - lost his interest in Krell returning to Taurgosz who had managed to kill Britik in the meanwhile. But Venkt and the Elites were too much so he dropped down shortly after. Krell quickly rushed in, collected the loot and moved out before any more spells could land. Time for Cloakwood. Well - at least that was the plan. But after some resting Krell realized that the talking had not triggered so Cloakwood was still closed. Damn it. Another costly charge from the Sandthief Ring later he was back in the tent and now the talking popped up. Finally.
At least the run is getting interesting again. Well - lets see how far we can push our luck! No?
(Is it even available for players?)
@Victor_Creed_SFV, mages can get Hold Monster as a level 5 spell, and it's actually one of few disablers that can work against Belhifet whose LoB save vs spells is 0. So the spell's -2 modifier, together with Doom (-2) and Malison (-4), will force Belhifet to roll 9 or higher in order not to be Held. You'll still need to lower his resistance, and get rid of his improved invisibility which comes with a +4 bonus to saves.
@Harpagornis, man, Krell's been very very lucky!! Hope it won't run out
I don't know how many Hold Monster scrolls are available, but these are the probabilities of holding him at least once in LoB mode, given the following buffs and number of Hold Monster spells cast:
With Greater Malison alone:
1 casting: 25%
2 castings: 43%
3 castings: 58%
4 castings: 68%
5 castings: 76%
6 castings: 82% (FMT maximum before Lower Resistance runs out and you have to start over)
7 castings: 87% (fighter/mage maximum)
8 castings: 90%
9 castings: 92%
10 castings: 94%
With Greater Malison, Doom, and Chant:
1 casting: 50%
2 castings: 75%
3 castings: 86%
4 castings: 94% (FMC maximum)
5 castings: 97%
6 castings: 98% (cleric/mage maximum)
7 castings: 99%
Good numbers for a no-reload run, but it's an extremely intensive process. You need five Lower Resistance spells to drop his MR to zero (or a Magic Resistance spell plus two Lower Resistance spells, but Magic Resistance takes a whole round cast and is easy to interrupt), plus a Greater Malison spell, plus a divination spell if you don't have access to Detect Illusions, and clerics will also want to cast Doom and Chant. That's 4-9 spells total without even counting the first Hold Monster spell you throw out, and a surprise Improved Invisibility could drag out the process even longer. That's not great, considering Lower Resistance only lasts for 12 rounds at most if you have 11 mage levels and wear the right cloak.
It's a huge investment in spells per round, and limited access to scrolls and level 5 spell slots will keep most characters from realistically hitting a 90% chance of success or higher.
I claimed that either there is some hidden MR for Big B or it was just a bug.
That's very good news, even tho I got used to this and thougt it was supposed to be "advanced" A.I.