I also heard that @StummvonBordwehr wants to join our challenge after reading and liking posts for some time now. No?
@Harpagornis Well it is true that I want... but I am playing on iOS: so no SoD and no modding (no SCS and all). Sorry
But when SoD comes to iOS, and Apple makes it easier to mod the game, I will join - but I suspect it may be a while.
Whilst waiting on SoD (and Apple), I enjoy reading about the exploits in this thread - and the no reload thread. I learn a lot about the game, and in this thread especially about SoD. So thank you for posting - its good stuff.
BTW: you mentioned that you wanted to try out a mage 3 -> fighter combo. I have done that in a no reload run, and hugely enjoyed it. The build is really strong - and the down time is minimum. I took slings and find familiar as my first picks, from the then on it was just wand spamming...
Thanks for - finally - posting @StummvonBordwehr! Lets hope you will get the chance to join soon!!
You are right: Mage 3 -> Fighter was big fun on my very first try and i think that i will return to it once Xaghul has fallen as i am still not feeling in the shape for playing on with Eklun or Korgath who are both still waiting in SoA and ToB. No need to rush things. Maybe Xaghul will join them soon? We will see...
So I've been reading about this Familiar business. Is it true that Familiar gets the LoB bonuses? Which would mean that with my Familiar I would get extra, (12*2+20)/2 = 22 hp, which feels like massive. Also is there any drawbacks if you keep it in your inventory, other than taking one item slot? Can you put it in the Bag of Holding?
So I've been reading about this Familiar business. Is it true that Familiar gets the LoB bonuses? Which would mean that with my Familiar I would get extra, (12*2+20)/2 = 22 hp, which feels like massive. Also is there any drawbacks if you keep it in your inventory, other than taking one item slot? Can you put it in the Bag of Holding?
I have the feeling this got changed, it used to be the familiar get's LoB bonus, but on my B/M my familiar description says 12 hp and even tho I forgot to remember my exact hp before, I'm pretty sure I didn't get 20+ hp.
Xaghul is walking on Brakkos path and cleared Coastway Crossing without problems...
- Killed the spider groups with five Skels + dual wielding Flail & Morningstar (80+ damage per round is hurting quite a lot). Had to quickly switch to Ring of Free Action as the Gargantuam Spiders tried to web him several times.
- Tricked once more Teleria and her Golem using Sanctuary while the summons hacked them down.
- Defeated Tsolak with five Skels, Haste and some dual-wielding fun. Moved around three of the traps and soaked up 68 damage from the one who killed Brakko earlier...
- Brought back all Heirlooms and kept the Identify Mirror - this will save a lot of gold.
- Visited all ancient Menhirs to get some more XP and gold.
- Went into the Mines and let the Undead kill the Dwarves. Collected all Amulets (plus another one in the southern tunnel) and moved into Coldhearths lair. With PfU he parked the hard hitting Sentry in one room, solved the riddle and finally met Coldhearth himself. Convinced him to work together without problems thanks to the Amulets. Smashed down several Undead to gain more XP as long as PfU was ticking...
- Casted Sanctuary and approached the bridge. The detonation and some talking triggered but as Xaghul was invisible the Crusaders could not attack him. He quickly retreated and waited for Caelar. After the usual talking he went back to camp to prepare for Bridgefort...
Nothing special so far. Lets see what the temple brings up this time!
My Beastmaster as well as my Mage->Fighter got 22 HP bonus @Victor_Creed_SFV - strange!
Most likely didn't notice it since my hp pool was really high and I forgot to check before using it (I have 133 at max level and I think it was around 120s after using familiar) I think I got mostly thrown off by the familiar description saying 12 hp, I never noticed it say that before.
Damn you can learn Find Familiar right at the beginning, which now feels like a massive mistake in my part. Well next time...
But I made a mage character to test it out, and I only got 6 hp? Addition to SCS+Ascension I only have EET (BWS) installed.
EDIT: tested it in unmodded game and you get 22 hp, damn this wont do.
EDIT2: it has to be the EET, well it's too late to change that so I'm just going to EEkeeper it in if I get that far. It's not like EET is any good for this challenge anyway.
Made progress until Davaeorn and also found a nice spot to charm and retreat:
You need to kill the guard to make it work and also looked to me like only improved invis works reliably, since normal invis triggered his prebuffs (he neither came after me nor called any guards tho).
It works even with Sanctuary or "normal" invisibility @Victor_Creed_SFV as long as you are fast enough - pause button is your best friend here. Its always funny to watch how his own Battle Horrors take him down! Too bad he saved nearly always in my last runs...
It works even with Sanctuary or "normal" invisibility @Victor_Creed_SFV as long as you are fast enough - pause button is your best friend here. Its always funny to watch how his own Battle Horrors take him down! Too bad he saved nearly always in my last runs...
I guess I managed to mistime it the one time I tested normal invis. Saving on his part doesn't matter too much if you killed the guard, at least for me with invis, since I can just invisibly rest next to the door and when guards spawn you just run out the door rest outside and come back. (I feel like when you're close enough to the edge of the map or another area transition, enemies will rarely spawn on rest, but I couldn't really find out vs Dava, since he failed his save 3rd try.)
Speaking of charming, I'm thinking advancing the main quest, and I remember you @Harpagornis feeding the Greywolf to the Kobbos. But what do you do in case that the charm doesn't work, is there some failsafe?
If you're hasted you can pull Greywolf towards the mines entrance, where the guards will attack him. It's kinda finnicky, since he's also hasted, another thing i once did, was go invis, wait out his haste, then pull him to the mine entrance, kite him while the guards also help your dps.
Ulcaster, got the boots and through invisibility fetched the Wand of Fire. WoMS pwned Neira. Again after looting Carnival couple guards arrived, I didn't know you can't loot open chests. Had to waste 400 gold for them. 2x WoMS pwned Greywolf who didn't have haste this time.
Time to get main quest rolling. First time ever with invisibility went through the whole mine, easiest thing, there's absolutely no reason to fight the Kobos for 7 xp. Until I met the Kobo Shaman who Oracled my invisibility, luckily I had a second one.
Rested, Mulahey succumbed to a single WoMS when I went invisible. I could have made my escape at this point. But the lure of the loot took the better of me, so I looted the chest, and quickly went invisible. This however arranged the mob so that I was imprisoned.
So I tried to fight my way out with WoMS, but of course now they were cheese against this mob. Anyway barely arranged the mob so that I could escape.
Back out and I forgot the missile mob who nearly took me out, because you have to take around trip so they can get many shots in. I thought I was clear, but yet another freaking obstacle and the Grey Oozez dropped me to one health.
And at this point I remembered, omg I don't even have my armor on. Tried to put it on, but of course you can't during the battle. And then
Argh... Sorry @histamiini. In this challenge, invisibility is your best friend when you try to avoid a fight. Always have a source of it in BG1 (potion, spell, magic ring, ...) can be the difference between life and death.
Ouch @histamiini! Getting trapped is a real nightmare. I remember something similar happening with Phase Spiders porting around me out of nowhere. Shortly after they feeded upon my corpse.
I think one should look at this like a chess game where you got outplayed. You learn much more from losing than winning. Here its learning by dying. Yeah, its painful - but - this one wont happen again. No?
P.S. I ALWAYS buy the Sandthief Ring before going in there!!
It's not like EET is any good for this challenge anyway.
EET provides a massive, massive advantage for anyone who has warrior HLAs. It provides the only way to bring the Martyr's Morningstar into BG2: drop it off at Dragonspear Castle after Belhifet and go back to pick it up after Chateau Irenicus. If you can muster 7 total APR with the morningstar, Critical Strike will guarantee an instant kill on anyone who does not have Stoneskin or immunity to +2 weapons (or +3, if you're casting Enchanted Weapon on yourself), since every critical hit takes away 15% of the enemy's HP. Even just 6 APR will be enough to bring anyone to Near Death in a single round. It's no good against Ascension Melissan, but it'll work on practically everything else.
You can also use it to bring other items into BG2, including the Cloak of Balduran and any item from SoD, from the Cloverleaf Belt to Spell Breaker.
@semiticgod True, but why I said that is because I don't think you should use any of the BG1 items in BG2 in this challenge, other than what is given in the unmodded game. That Cloak of Balduran example would've given my Cavalier easy 100 MR, and helped a lot. So for me only advantage is really the ease of transition.
Went throught the F/M/T hp pool manually because you have to be an Einstein to calculate it out, and added in this table. Also fixed couple HLA and Thac0 mistakes. So this should be final version. I'll make these out as I play these multi-classes.
Looks fine @histamiini - will be helpful for any F/M/T aspirant!
Yeah, i agree with you that taking over items from BG1 or SoD into BG2 does not feel right even though Martyrs Morningstar alone is a big temptation. But: No, no!
Need some rest before Xaghul can crush through SoD.... zzzzzz....
He only needs Martyrs Morningstar and The Hydra Flail for some really big dual-headbanging. The Crusader Attacks should be big fun with this setup. Hopefully!
The only problem will be: Which weapon to use against Big B? Sundermaul +3 would be perfect but is out of reach. This leaves open only Quarterstaff +3 or the Club +3. Or Martyrs Morningstar. Have i missed one?
Tanking Big B hoping for Crits from Martyrs Morningstar could be a real thriller. Will it be 40 attacks only? Or 70? Maybe even 100?
One minute in and Two is already a massive improvement from One. Didn't loot mistake Candlekeep, Find Familiar tripled the hp to over 30, and Pick Pocket 60 got me the Algernon's Cloak straight away. Been doing collection/xp run slightly different order this time, after getting the Ankheg Plate I went straight to Drizzt, that way I got 5k money to spend from the get go.
The only problem will be: Which weapon to use against Big B? Sundermaul +3 would be perfect but is out of reach. This leaves open only Quarterstaff +3 or the Club +3. Or Martyrs Morningstar. Have i missed one?
Tanking Big B hoping for Crits from Martyrs Morningstar could be a real thriller. Will it be 40 attacks only? Or 70? Maybe even 100?
Btw isn't Martyr +2 weapon, or does that ability add to main hand weapon also? I calculated that my F/M/T will have +5 Thac0 compared to my Cavalier vs. Bel, because I have to use Kiel's Helmet, Fighter level is one below and no Cavalier bonus vs. demons. So I'll be suffering against him also longer. Luckily the Familiar makes the hp difference smaller.
Btw isn't Martyr +2 weapon, or does that ability add to main hand weapon also?
Ability is only for its own hits. In v2.3 this ability operates irrespective of whether the weapon can hit an opponent - thus you get no damage from basic hits, but still get the bonus 15% of HPs for a critical. In LoB the high HP pools make that a good deal.
I believe that in v2.5 that separate ability will end, such that you will need to cast enchant weapon on it if you want to get any mileage out of it against Belhifet.
Yup. Enchanted Weapon will be mandatory in 2.5 if you want to use it against Belhifet.
It's just as well, really. We've seen before that relying on critical hits alone to nail Belhifet, while possible, is simply not reliable in a no-reload context. It's entirely possible to go for many rounds without landing a critical hit, and any delay gives Belhifet time to regenerate.
Frey has been beavering away at odd moments over the last couple of days. Although I said I was supposed to be avoiding risks I must admit I've not really done that to the best of my ability (damn it @Harpagornis is right again!). As an illustration of that, one potential risk is the danger of the game minimising and thus causing a brief loss of control. At one point I was attacking a ghast in a web with a sling and the thought actually went through my head that I was much closer to it than I needed to be (and I hadn't bothered using stoneskin) and that could be costly if the game minimised. The gods were listening as only seconds later that's what happened. I quickly brought the game back up and slapped the pause button with 4 of my 40 HPs remaining. There was still the possibility that the ghast would get an attack in as Frey moved away, but this time that didn't happen .
Frey's main tactics have been pretty standard: - picked up a couple of levels early on by kiting Shoal - sling use then did the bulk of damage against blinded opponents to get to L4 and obtain invisibility - those with distance attacks typically were charmed from invisibility at this stage - once web was learned, that made blinding easier (allowing that to be used against dangerous enemies like ankhegs and basilisks) - as levels grew magic missile and then skull trap started to take over from sling as the major source of damage.
Frey has just completed his work at Durlag's Tower and hit his BG1 level cap there. I've tended in that situation to carry on and clear most wilderness areas anyway and there's still quite a bit of that Frey could do. However, I think this time I'll just use invisibility to get desired equipment, while leaving most opponents alone - thus reducing the chances of my luck running out. That means he'll be moving on to the main quest pretty soon.
Comments
But when SoD comes to iOS, and Apple makes it easier to mod the game, I will join - but I suspect it may be a while.
Whilst waiting on SoD (and Apple), I enjoy reading about the exploits in this thread - and the no reload thread. I learn a lot about the game, and in this thread especially about SoD. So thank you for posting - its good stuff.
BTW: you mentioned that you wanted to try out a mage 3 -> fighter combo. I have done that in a no reload run, and hugely enjoyed it. The build is really strong - and the down time is minimum. I took slings and find familiar as my first picks, from the then on it was just wand spamming...
You are right: Mage 3 -> Fighter was big fun on my very first try and i think that i will return to it once Xaghul has fallen as i am still not feeling in the shape for playing on with Eklun or Korgath who are both still waiting in SoA and ToB. No need to rush things. Maybe Xaghul will join them soon? We will see...
Not to forget: You cannot put the Familiar into a Bag of Holding as its marked as "unremovable".
Max Hp Pool (max con)
Mage2->Fighter 6*2+17*7+3*30+58 (ToB Familiar) = 279 hp
Barbarian, Dwarven Defender 19*9+3*31 = 264 hp
Fighter 17*9+3*31 = 246 hp
Xaghul is walking on Brakkos path and cleared Coastway Crossing without problems...
- Killed the spider groups with five Skels + dual wielding Flail & Morningstar (80+ damage per round is hurting quite a lot). Had to quickly switch to Ring of Free Action as the Gargantuam Spiders tried to web him several times.
- Tricked once more Teleria and her Golem using Sanctuary while the summons hacked them down.
- Defeated Tsolak with five Skels, Haste and some dual-wielding fun. Moved around three of the traps and soaked up 68 damage from the one who killed Brakko earlier...
- Brought back all Heirlooms and kept the Identify Mirror - this will save a lot of gold.
- Visited all ancient Menhirs to get some more XP and gold.
- Went into the Mines and let the Undead kill the Dwarves. Collected all Amulets (plus another one in the southern tunnel) and moved into Coldhearths lair. With PfU he parked the hard hitting Sentry in one room, solved the riddle and finally met Coldhearth himself. Convinced him to work together without problems thanks to the Amulets. Smashed down several Undead to gain more XP as long as PfU was ticking...
- Casted Sanctuary and approached the bridge. The detonation and some talking triggered but as Xaghul was invisible the Crusaders could not attack him. He quickly retreated and waited for Caelar. After the usual talking he went back to camp to prepare for Bridgefort...
Nothing special so far. Lets see what the temple brings up this time!
I think I got mostly thrown off by the familiar description saying 12 hp, I never noticed it say that before.
But I made a mage character to test it out, and I only got 6 hp? Addition to SCS+Ascension I only have EET (BWS) installed.
EDIT: tested it in unmodded game and you get 22 hp, damn this wont do.
EDIT2: it has to be the EET, well it's too late to change that so I'm just going to EEkeeper it in if I get that far. It's not like EET is any good for this challenge anyway.
You need to kill the guard to make it work and also looked to me like only improved invis works reliably, since normal invis triggered his prebuffs (he neither came after me nor called any guards tho).
Saving on his part doesn't matter too much if you killed the guard, at least for me with invis, since I can just invisibly rest next to the door and when guards spawn you just run out the door rest outside and come back.
(I feel like when you're close enough to the edge of the map or another area transition, enemies will rarely spawn on rest, but I couldn't really find out vs Dava, since he failed his save 3rd try.)
Or retreat-rest for another attempt...
P.S. Blind also works even though he will run around like crazy
It's kinda finnicky, since he's also hasted, another thing i once did, was go invis, wait out his haste, then pull him to the mine entrance, kite him while the guards also help your dps.
Time to get main quest rolling. First time ever with invisibility went through the whole mine, easiest thing, there's absolutely no reason to fight the Kobos for 7 xp. Until I met the Kobo Shaman who Oracled my invisibility, luckily I had a second one.
Rested, Mulahey succumbed to a single WoMS when I went invisible. I could have made my escape at this point. But the lure of the loot took the better of me, so I looted the chest, and quickly went invisible. This however arranged the mob so that I was imprisoned.
So I tried to fight my way out with WoMS, but of course now they were cheese against this mob. Anyway barely arranged the mob so that I could escape.
Back out and I forgot the missile mob who nearly took me out, because you have to take around trip so they can get many shots in. I thought I was clear, but yet another freaking obstacle and the Grey Oozez dropped me to one health.
And at this point I remembered, omg I don't even have my armor on. Tried to put it on, but of course you can't during the battle. And then
I think one should look at this like a chess game where you got outplayed. You learn much more from losing than winning. Here its learning by dying. Yeah, its painful - but - this one wont happen again. No?
P.S. I ALWAYS buy the Sandthief Ring before going in there!!
And another valuable lesson is to have somekind of armor on.
However: Good luck with your next run!
Xaghul is ready for Bridgefort and the temple but i feel too tired. Looks like he has to wait until tomorrow... DAMN!
You can also use it to bring other items into BG2, including the Cloak of Balduran and any item from SoD, from the Cloverleaf Belt to Spell Breaker.
Fighter/Mage/Thief
Yeah, i agree with you that taking over items from BG1 or SoD into BG2 does not feel right even though Martyrs Morningstar alone is a big temptation. But: No, no!
Need some rest before Xaghul can crush through SoD.... zzzzzz....
He only needs Martyrs Morningstar and The Hydra Flail for some really big dual-headbanging. The Crusader Attacks should be big fun with this setup. Hopefully!
The only problem will be: Which weapon to use against Big B? Sundermaul +3 would be perfect but is out of reach. This leaves open only Quarterstaff +3 or the Club +3. Or Martyrs Morningstar. Have i missed one?
Tanking Big B hoping for Crits from Martyrs Morningstar could be a real thriller. Will it be 40 attacks only? Or 70? Maybe even 100?
Time for some sleeping... Good Night, Good Luck!
One minute in and Two is already a massive improvement from One. Didn't loot mistake Candlekeep, Find Familiar tripled the hp to over 30, and Pick Pocket 60 got me the Algernon's Cloak straight away. Been doing collection/xp run slightly different order this time, after getting the Ankheg Plate I went straight to Drizzt, that way I got 5k money to spend from the get go.
I believe that in v2.5 that separate ability will end, such that you will need to cast enchant weapon on it if you want to get any mileage out of it against Belhifet.
It's just as well, really. We've seen before that relying on critical hits alone to nail Belhifet, while possible, is simply not reliable in a no-reload context. It's entirely possible to go for many rounds without landing a critical hit, and any delay gives Belhifet time to regenerate.
Frey's main tactics have been pretty standard:
- picked up a couple of levels early on by kiting Shoal
- sling use then did the bulk of damage against blinded opponents to get to L4 and obtain invisibility
- those with distance attacks typically were charmed from invisibility at this stage
- once web was learned, that made blinding easier (allowing that to be used against dangerous enemies like ankhegs and basilisks)
- as levels grew magic missile and then skull trap started to take over from sling as the major source of damage.
Frey has just completed his work at Durlag's Tower and hit his BG1 level cap there. I've tended in that situation to carry on and clear most wilderness areas anyway and there's still quite a bit of that Frey could do. However, I think this time I'll just use invisibility to get desired equipment, while leaving most opponents alone - thus reducing the chances of my luck running out. That means he'll be moving on to the main quest pretty soon.