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The Add the ability to have a fourth class card discussion

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  • ShadooowShadooow Member Posts: 348
    So is this still considered or is this in icebox?

    It would be nice to have this support however as a someone who tried to attempt this via nwnx I can see why is this out of question. Extremely hard to make.

    Proont
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 964
    Shadooow said:

    So is this still considered or is this in icebox?

    It would be nice to have this support however as a someone who tried to attempt this via nwnx I can see why is this out of question. Extremely hard to make.

    Not for a developer.

    ProontildaronRAM021
  • MalisharaMalishara Member Posts: 16

    Malishara said:

    NWN ENHANCED Edition.... not NWN REVISED Edition. Let's stay true to the base game mechanics. Changing them will change far too many things across the board. There are far more important things to be worked on than catering to people who want OP gameplay in the form of more classes, more levels.

    Very true. But I would hope that by default, game settings would remain the same IE: 3 classes. However there would be a server/mod setting to unlock a 4th (or more) class if the creators wished.

    I don't think such changes would/should be back ported to the original campaign or custom modules. But more options for mods and PW's are more options for mods and PW's!
    If it were to be added for that purpose, it should be optional, and should take a lower priority, I feel.

  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 757
    It is something that cannot be done today but it would add many new options for content and modules beyond just the initial thought of character progression. Many other things that ppl want have either already have versions or multiple versions by the community or could be cobbled together or spoofed. This is something much harder for creators but maybe not for the developer, because of this it would possibly have a much bigger bang for the buck.

    It's an old misconception that more classes meant more power or that dipping 1 level in a class was insanely powerful. Some RP servers used to put in limits to guarantee multi-classed characters were actually more powerful to ensure they wouldn't be more powerful in their perception. So I don't quite feel it's for overpowered players but it does give creators and players more options.

    It should still be a module specific variable though.

    ProontRAM021
  • hda_nwnhda_nwn Member Posts: 27
    I think we will need a better way to customize classes. Like a wizard instead of editing .2da and .tlk

    All we need is being able to customize. Handling balance is a PW issue. Each one will have its own rules and meta.

    If a server wants free choices and 4th classes let it have it.
    If another wants to stay 3 clasees only, let it have it.
    If another wants to customize their classes so it gives custom benefits to single class epic characters, give the tools to do it. So you players can choose between multiclass combination or single class awesome things.

    Can we have a new card for Custom Class Wizard?

    Also , can it be added a feature where you can only achieve class feats or class skills if a logic is met?
    For example: I only want to give martial class proficiencies and heavy armour proficiencies to a character if its warrior level are their 70% of their current level. And not lvl 1 free feats.

    Same goes for monk, rogue, bard, and so on.

    For spellcaster you need to stack tons of levels to be able to achieve something. But there are many classes who give tons of benefit just getting one or two levels. It breaks any kind of roleplaying inmersion.

    voidofopinionProontRifleLeroyRAM021
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,062
    I think that rules changes like that are outside the scope of this discussion. Requests and recommendations should be posted in the General Discussions subforum.

    RAM021
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Jonlun said:

    I would like to see a 4th class implemented just to shake things up a bit.

    If it could be done quite easily, I agree. If it would take a lot of resources, I don't think it is worth it.

  • Drewbert_ahoyDrewbert_ahoy Member Posts: 74
    People would just add weapon master to pretty much every melee build, as it's the best class. Not exactly innovative or needed customization. A 3 class limit forces compromise, which is good.

  • ThorssonThorsson Member Posts: 187
    Why stop at 4? I see nothing in the D&D rules preventing any number of classes, although clearly there is a practical limit. OTOH there is a clear indication that DMs should only grant PrCs as something special, so you could argue that you can have as many base classes as you like, but PrCs ought to be more restricted.

    Dark_AnsemProontJimbobslimbobRAM021
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 964
    Thorsson said:

    Why stop at 4? I see nothing in the D&D rules preventing any number of classes, although clearly there is a practical limit. OTOH there is a clear indication that DMs should only grant PrCs as something special, so you could argue that you can have as many base classes as you like, but PrCs ought to be more restricted.

    I proposed 5-7

    ThorssonProontJimbobslimbobRAM021
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 964
    Thorsson said:

    I proposed 5-7

    I can't imagine that if you enable 4, enabling 5, 6, or 7 is that much extra work. It creates a host more opportunities and makes the attraction of developing new classes greater.

    I cannot understand the stick-in-the-muds that are naysaying the suggestion. And, while I can understand why some people think it should be a low priority change, I think that they're badly mistaken; for the average player, as opposed to module or PW designer, having access to more options for their character is a very big deal indeed. If you really want the game to have a renaissance you should be pushing any such change to the top of the pile.
    With a higher level cap and the PRC, I'm absolutely convinced fantastic builds would be possible.

    ProontRifleLeroyRAM021
  • ShadowMShadowM Member Posts: 533
    When you have work going on with unlocking/adding more support for custom base classes/prestige classes and adding unlimited custom races selection or unlocking custom spellbook that would add way more bang to player choice than yes I worry about using resources for a fourth class. That said when the other stuff get done you can come back to it.

  • ThorssonThorsson Member Posts: 187
    ShadowM said:

    When you have work going on with unlocking/adding more support for custom base classes/prestige classes and adding unlimited custom races selection or unlocking custom spellbook that would add way more bang to player choice than yes I worry about using resources for a fourth class. That said when the other stuff get done you can come back to it.

    I think this approach is entirely wrong. No PW should be adding too many classes or races, especially home-brewed ones, because it is very easy to cause enormous balance problems. This has been shown in PnP with Pun-Pun and the like. 4/5/6 classes OTOH is not going to cause big problems, because there is a limit to how much you can squeeze in given the qualifications required. Also, it's much easier to spot where there is an issue (possibly HiPS at level 1 for SD) and take appropriate steps (move it to a later level).

    Proont
  • ShadowMShadowM Member Posts: 533
    Thorsson said:

    ShadowM said:

    When you have work going on with unlocking/adding more support for custom base classes/prestige classes and adding unlimited custom races selection or unlocking custom spellbook that would add way more bang to player choice than yes I worry about using resources for a fourth class. That said when the other stuff get done you can come back to it.

    I think this approach is entirely wrong. No PW should be adding too many classes or races, especially home-brewed ones, because it is very easy to cause enormous balance problems. This has been shown in PnP with Pun-Pun and the like. 4/5/6 classes OTOH is not going to cause big problems, because there is a limit to how much you can squeeze in given the qualifications required. Also, it's much easier to spot where there is an issue (possibly HiPS at level 1 for SD) and take appropriate steps (move it to a later level).
    That up for each PW to decide and adjust as they see on a case by cases basis. None of my comment was about what PW would or not add it was about giving choice in fact nothing in your statement related to my statement about resource use/choice.

  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 757
    Pun Pun actually doesn't work and is often used as a counter argument to say that a DM must specifically bend rules or use a ambiguous and suspicious interpretation to allow insane builds at which point it's really their own fault. That theorycrafted was intended to be an attack on D&D rather than something you can actually use in a game and it suffers from using it's own unique interpretation of the rules.

    Those kind of theory crafted hijinks like Pun Pun would be almost impossible for a module to make because it requires so many things to align in a very specific way. The module maker would have to make very specific things to allow it to work, it would be easier to just give ppl the DM login code for your server. Besides that Pun Pun there only uses 2 classes.

  • JimbobslimbobJimbobslimbob Member Posts: 199
    Thorsson said:


    I cannot understand the stick-in-the-muds that are naysaying the suggestion. And, while I can understand why some people think it should be a low priority change, I think that they're badly mistaken; for the average player, as opposed to module or PW designer, having access to more options for their character is a very big deal indeed. If you really want the game to have a renaissance you should be pushing any such change to the top of the pile.

    Absolutely. More custimisation options for the player is a great move. Character crafting in NWN is one of its hidden beauties - this will improve it tenfold.

    JarrakulProontRAM021
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 964

    Thorsson said:


    I cannot understand the stick-in-the-muds that are naysaying the suggestion. And, while I can understand why some people think it should be a low priority change, I think that they're badly mistaken; for the average player, as opposed to module or PW designer, having access to more options for their character is a very big deal indeed. If you really want the game to have a renaissance you should be pushing any such change to the top of the pile.

    Absolutely. More custimisation options for the player is a great move. Character crafting in NWN is one of its hidden beauties - this will improve it tenfold.
    Not even that hidden really... it was one of the main points for me. Spent ages drafting my biography...

    ProontRAM021
  • DeltharisDeltharis Member Posts: 124
    edited December 2017
    I don't know about priority, but a D&D game that allows more classes is strictly better than one that allows less

    Dark_AnsemProontRAM021
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I have no problem with including number of classes as a module parameter for those who are concerned about what it would do to game balance, but I think the default should definitely be higher, possibly uncapped.

    And I am in no way biased due to having a paladin/cleric of Bahamut who I really want to pick up Dragon Disciple levels on... :P

    Dark_AnsemThorssonProontRAM021
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,764
    If it's easy to do, then increase the max number of classes.

    If it isn't easy to do (which I suspect is the case), then ignore it for now and look at it again way down the road.

    ShadowM
  • BlessedAdversaryBlessedAdversary Member Posts: 14
    Thumbs down on four classes.

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 964

    Thumbs down on four classes.

    What an insightful and well reasoned post.

    ProontRAM021
  • BlessedAdversaryBlessedAdversary Member Posts: 14

    Thumbs down on four classes.

    What an insightful and well reasoned post.
    Glad i finally found you, I was waiting for the forum bully to show up. Do you want my lunch money now?

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 964

    Thumbs down on four classes.

    What an insightful and well reasoned post.
    Glad i finally found you, I was waiting for the forum bully to show up. Do you want my lunch money now?
    It's not about being a bully: I am calling for an explanation.

    RAM021
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,205
    This thread is for the constructive talk (and all threads in this forum section), @BlessedAdversary . Let's cut this personal talk short. Thank you.

    Dark_AnsemmichauProont
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,205
    @BlessedAdversary This is the final informal warning. I ask you to stop this personal talk and read the Site rules before you continue to post here.

    Dark_AnsemProont
  • BlessedAdversaryBlessedAdversary Member Posts: 14
    Thumbs down on four classes.

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 964

    Thumbs down on four classes.

    @JuliusBorisov this is unhelpful, non-constructive and deliberate trolling.

    ProontRAM021
This discussion has been closed.