I have never played a sandbox style game, but I worry about the main plot lacking in impetus. This is even a problem in chapter 2 of Shadows of Amn, so I imagine it is far worse in a sandbox style game.
On the other hand, an overly structured main plot (especially if time constraints are attached) may take away from the player soaking in the atmosphere of the game and getting immersed in the world.
This is why I think the semi-structured system is superior. It gives you the best of both worlds.
I have never played a sandbox style game, but I worry about the main plot lacking in impetus. This is even a problem in chapter 2 of Shadows of Amn, so I imagine it is far worse in a sandbox style game.
On the other hand, an overly structured main plot (especially if time constraints are attached) may take away from the player soaking in the atmosphere of the game and getting immersed in the world.
This is why I think the semi-structured system is superior. It gives you the best of both worlds.
Planescape torment and the first two fallouts are the exception I suspect.
I have never played a sandbox style game, but I worry about the main plot lacking in impetus. This is even a problem in chapter 2 of Shadows of Amn, so I imagine it is far worse in a sandbox style game.
On the other hand, an overly structured main plot (especially if time constraints are attached) may take away from the player soaking in the atmosphere of the game and getting immersed in the world.
This is why I think the semi-structured system is superior. It gives you the best of both worlds.
Planescape torment and the first two fallouts are the exception I suspect.
Never played Fallout, but I enjoyed Planescape: Torment quite a bit. However, I still prefer the Baldur's Gate Series.
Also, I don't think PS:T was that much more linear than Baldur's Gate.
I enjoyed IWD a lot and that is more linear. So I'd add that to the exceptions.
Linear RPGs (e.g. Final Fantasy series, Fallout 1&2, Planescape Torment, Arcanum)
I think the examples in the OP are poor: NWN (OC, SoU, HotU) is far more linear than Fallout 1 and 2 for a start, and there are no truly linear RPGs mentioned at all.
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
I think the examples in the OP are poor: NWN (OC, SoU, HotU) is far more linear than Fallout 1 and 2 for a start, and there are no truly linear RPGs mentioned at all.
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
I too say the examples that puts FO1 and 2 in the last category and NVN in the second is way, way off mark. FO are game-wise very similar to the BG-games where the story is not pushed on you and you can travel around the map freely, visiting places "out of order" if you choose so. It doesn't matter for the categories themselves, but might give some insight on how I think about the games when I choose my reply (which includes FO1 and 2, two amazing games IMHO).
But anyways, I prefer this kind of game. If the game becomes to sandboxy, I can have a lot of fun but I just get lost and never end the game. I've played Skyrim for 100 hours+ but never once finished the main story arc (which though, to my defense, was utterly boring).
More seriously, options 2 and 3. More linear cRPGs often focus more on story and characters, while semi-linear ones are offering great mix between story, characters and freedom.
I can't stand pointless sandboxes, though. Sure, give me huge freaking world and forget giving my any reason to explore it while you are at it!
Open world with linear plot. Bonus points if the plot involves an overpowered/unkillable boss in the first third, and with some reasonable effort you can slip off the railroad, spend a good part of the playtime sneaking around much stronger monsters stealing stuff and occasional easy XP, and then return and pwn the smug bastard. At which point the playthrough is usually over for me.
I think the examples in the OP are poor: NWN (OC, SoU, HotU) is far more linear than Fallout 1 and 2 for a start, and there are no truly linear RPGs mentioned at all.
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
Did you miss the Final fantasy series mention?
I've only played FF7, but I recall that having some open world exploration and sidequests outside of the main plot, not to mention mini-games and hanging out in the casino.
I think the examples in the OP are poor: NWN (OC, SoU, HotU) is far more linear than Fallout 1 and 2 for a start, and there are no truly linear RPGs mentioned at all.
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
Did you miss the Final fantasy series mention?
I've only played FF7, but I recall that having some open world exploration and sidequests outside of the main plot, not to mention mini-games and hanging out in the casino.
There was a world map, but not an open world ala skyrim - effectively, the map didn't unlock fully until the endgame (you get the airship).
I think the examples in the OP are poor: NWN (OC, SoU, HotU) is far more linear than Fallout 1 and 2 for a start, and there are no truly linear RPGs mentioned at all.
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
Did you miss the Final fantasy series mention?
I've only played FF7, but I recall that having some open world exploration and sidequests outside of the main plot, not to mention mini-games and hanging out in the casino.
There was a world map, but not an open world ala skyrim - effectively, the map didn't unlock fully until the endgame (you get the airship).
Same is true for Baldur's Gate, and NWN doesn't even have a world map.
I think the examples in the OP are poor: NWN (OC, SoU, HotU) is far more linear than Fallout 1 and 2 for a start, and there are no truly linear RPGs mentioned at all.
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
Did you miss the Final fantasy series mention?
I've only played FF7, but I recall that having some open world exploration and sidequests outside of the main plot, not to mention mini-games and hanging out in the casino.
All the FF games have a ton of side-quests and mini-games, and FF1-6 have a lot of open world exploration. The plot itself is linear, yes, but not the world itself. The OPs examples are horribly poor.
I think the examples in the OP are poor: NWN (OC, SoU, HotU) is far more linear than Fallout 1 and 2 for a start, and there are no truly linear RPGs mentioned at all.
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
Did you miss the Final fantasy series mention?
I've only played FF7, but I recall that having some open world exploration and sidequests outside of the main plot, not to mention mini-games and hanging out in the casino.
All the FF games have a ton of side-quests and mini-games, and FF1-6 have a lot of open world exploration. The plot itself is linear, yes, but not the world itself. The OPs examples are horribly poor.
About point 1: save after you finish the final boss only leads to New Game + (start off with endgame stats), NOT to post-endgame gameplay.
Secondly: side-quests and mini-games mean absolutely not what I mean. Guess you'd learn the definitions I gave at the beginning more closely. Also, open world in FF1-6? Nonsense. You had to follow the plot to unlock new areas and ways to actually move across them (FF6 a particularly bad example with the World of Ruin, where you couldn't go anywhere without the airship).
Not to mention, "TONS" of side-quests? FF7 had one per each character, that's it. FF6 had more because it had a plethora of playable characters - the exception, really, because the other examples you mention have a normal cast. Re-releases add one or two quests. And map exploration in FF1 is pretty much limited, as it is for FF2 and FF3.
Linear RPGs (e.g. Final Fantasy series, Fallout 1&2, Planescape Torment, Arcanum)
Sure, PST may be more linear than NWN:OC, on the basis of being shorter, but it is not as linear as SCL, and the NWN:OC is a lot more linear than BG, with no world map exploration.
I'm happy if the game knows what it is doing, and delivers a consistent playstyle. Counter-example that I find frustrating, and still need to go back to beat (no spoilers please): ME: Andromeda.
The game starts out looking like an exploration, but on some pretty strict rails, effectively your training mode for the first few hours. Finally it opens up a little, and lets you explore a small area of the first world.
Once you get the plot-device McGuffin explained, it acts more like an open world, with a small fraction of the universe to explore, and who knows how much more locked off. You can explore your worlds, which are mostly open but may have an obstacle or two to access the full map.
Finally you get the next unlock, and the whole map opens up, and it is overwhelming. The little nudges that opened the world slowly gave you an expectation of the rate the game would feed you, and I am just lost. Have not found the time to dig into this endgame, as it is looking vast. Would have been prepared for it if the game started like this, but not as a bait-and-switch after what is typically 60-80 hours of playtime for me, if not more (I am a completionist by nature, I know it can be run a lot faster)
I'm happy if the game knows what it is doing, and delivers a consistent playstyle. Counter-example that I find frustrating, and still need to go back to beat (no spoilers please): ME: Andromeda.
The game starts out looking like an exploration, but on some pretty strict rails, effectively your training mode for the first few hours. Finally it opens up a little, and lets you explore a small area of the first world.
Once you get the plot-device McGuffin explained, it acts more like an open world, with a small fraction of the universe to explore, and who knows how much more locked off. You can explore your worlds, which are mostly open but may have an obstacle or two to access the full map.
Finally you get the next unlock, and the whole map opens up, and it is overwhelming. The little nudges that opened the world slowly gave you an expectation of the rate the game would feed you, and I am just lost. Have not found the time to dig into this endgame, as it is looking vast. Would have been prepared for it if the game started like this, but not as a bait-and-switch after what is typically 60-80 hours of playtime for me, if not more (I am a completionist by nature, I know it can be run a lot faster)
I like walking around large world maps like in Arcanum, Fallout 2, and to a lesser extent Baldur's Gate 1. Have a few choke points but give a lot of freedom. All 3 games let you make your own character, even if you're tied to a specific story role: The Living One, The Chosen One or the Vault Dweller's ancestor, or Gorion's Ward or Bhaalspawn.
Dark_Ansem
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On the other hand, an overly structured main plot (especially if time constraints are attached) may take away from the player soaking in the atmosphere of the game and getting immersed in the world.
This is why I think the semi-structured system is superior. It gives you the best of both worlds.
Also, I don't think PS:T was that much more linear than Baldur's Gate.
I enjoyed IWD a lot and that is more linear. So I'd add that to the exceptions.
edit: would fallout new vegas be sand box or semi structered?
But I hate open world. I haven't encountered one that could tell a gripping story, and without a story I don't feel incentivised to carry on playing.
But anyways, I prefer this kind of game. If the game becomes to sandboxy, I can have a lot of fun but I just get lost and never end the game. I've played Skyrim for 100 hours+ but never once finished the main story arc (which though, to my defense, was utterly boring).
More seriously, options 2 and 3. More linear cRPGs often focus more on story and characters, while semi-linear ones are offering great mix between story, characters and freedom.
I can't stand pointless sandboxes, though. Sure, give me huge freaking world and forget giving my any reason to explore it while you are at it!
>e.g. Final Fantasy series
I'm sorry, what?
I'm sorry, since when you can access bonus bosses in FF 1-10 after beating the final boss (Chaos, Ultimecia, Sephiroth, Necron, Yu Yevon etc)?
Secondly: side-quests and mini-games mean absolutely not what I mean. Guess you'd learn the definitions I gave at the beginning more closely. Also, open world in FF1-6? Nonsense. You had to follow the plot to unlock new areas and ways to actually move across them (FF6 a particularly bad example with the World of Ruin, where you couldn't go anywhere without the airship).
Not to mention, "TONS" of side-quests? FF7 had one per each character, that's it. FF6 had more because it had a plethora of playable characters - the exception, really, because the other examples you mention have a normal cast. Re-releases add one or two quests. And map exploration in FF1 is pretty much limited, as it is for FF2 and FF3.
More linear than Baldur's Gate: Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment, NWN campaigns, NWN2 campigns apart from SoZ, DA2.
Similar mix to Baldur's Gate: PoE, DOS 1&2, FO1 and 2, KotOR, FF7, DAO, Arcanum.
Open World: Elder Scrolls series, Witcher3.
The game starts out looking like an exploration, but on some pretty strict rails, effectively your training mode for the first few hours. Finally it opens up a little, and lets you explore a small area of the first world.
Once you get the plot-device McGuffin explained, it acts more like an open world, with a small fraction of the universe to explore, and who knows how much more locked off. You can explore your worlds, which are mostly open but may have an obstacle or two to access the full map.
Finally you get the next unlock, and the whole map opens up, and it is overwhelming. The little nudges that opened the world slowly gave you an expectation of the rate the game would feed you, and I am just lost. Have not found the time to dig into this endgame, as it is looking vast. Would have been prepared for it if the game started like this, but not as a bait-and-switch after what is typically 60-80 hours of playtime for me, if not more (I am a completionist by nature, I know it can be run a lot faster)