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Why not adding a bag of holding to BG1 and save our efforts from importing one from EEKeeper?

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Comments

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,339
    People can go inside a bag just fine. But the bag doesn't provide the components necessary to survive, such as oxygen. There'll likely be a little oxygen in the bag because it was open when you entered, but with it not replenishing...

    As long as you don't really care about breathing, you should be fine.

    Proont
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,925
    When the bag is empty, a smart user would put unlimited oxygen into it...

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    edited February 2018
    anyways - it is now abundantly apparent that my idea for solving the missing bags of holding issue, based on rieltar's letter is valid, lore-friendly, and puts a missing piece of the puzzle back into place. i'm gonna redmine it

    just kidding

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,070
    edited February 2018
    lroumen said:

    If hexxat can get into a bag to get into her coffin, then why cannot others get into a bag

    Hexxat doesn't need to breathe.

    HOw exactly would one "put unlimited oxygen inside something?

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,925
    edited February 2018
    Magic

    Same counter arguments I get.

    Just as an empty bottle has ~20% oxygen in it, so does a bag of holding or a bottomless bag of holding (~20% of infinity in that case).

    Skatan
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,339
    Magic? Like what spells are actually available to do so? This is not some freeform universe, the limits of magic have been described in detail.

    ThacoBell
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,925
    The magic of my last sentence... Which is more like science.

    And of course I have been jesting all this time.

    Anyway, it just makes no sense to have a bag of holding with unrecoverable contents.

    SkatanProont
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    They could just throw some particularly scary undead or construct in the bag with the iron and let BG1 players open it at their own risk.

    ZaghoulThacoBellProont
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,070
    joluv said:

    They could just throw some particularly scary undead or construct in the bag with the iron and let BG1 players open it at their own risk.

    Hahahah open the bag and BOOM, Adamantium Golem.

    ZaghoulProont
  • LoldrupLoldrup Member Posts: 291

    Don't know about others, but my bags of holding are bugged at the moment. Happened with the one with the coffin, but it seems to be a general problem.

    Meaning everything I put into the bag and take out again is still in the bag (and a copy in the inventory) when I look into it again. Unlimited rare items sound fun, but I prefer to play a bit more honest. Tried to add a bag of holding (bag04) with keeper for a workaround, same problem.

    Has this bug been reported on redmine?

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,995
    edited February 2018
    joluv said:

    They could just throw some particularly scary undead or construct in the bag with the iron and let BG1 players open it at their own risk.



    Ooh! Don't know my own strength!

    ThacoBellZaghoulProontGarvin77
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,811
    Loldrup said:

    Don't know about others, but my bags of holding are bugged at the moment. Happened with the one with the coffin, but it seems to be a general problem.

    Meaning everything I put into the bag and take out again is still in the bag (and a copy in the inventory) when I look into it again. Unlimited rare items sound fun, but I prefer to play a bit more honest. Tried to add a bag of holding (bag04) with keeper for a workaround, same problem.

    Has this bug been reported on redmine?

    I asked here whether this happened in the beta or not. That bug was present in 2.3 but I have not seen it in 2.5. I'd appreciate people would test more.

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,815
    During the last stream Trent and Phil said someone stole the bag from Tranzig's pocket before he met CHARNAME and taken away from the continent. Nevermind.

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    I suspect the stream was not keeping up with this thread, which might give them a chance to reconsider.

    I remain torn - I would love a bag to better organize my sales trips to the stores, but figuring how to move 16 sets of plate mail to sell at once is an interesting challenge today, for those of us that enjoy that part of the game. The bag of holding is such a horrible short-cut, but is immediately the right answer if it is in the game.

    Proont
  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,815
    edited February 2018

    rede9 said:

    During the last stream Trent and Phil said someone stole the bag from Tranzig's pocket before he met CHARNAME and taken away from the continent. Nevermind.

    I suspect the stream was not keeping up with this thread, which might give them a chance to reconsider.
    Then I should summon @TrentOster @PhillipDaigle



  • kingnightkingnight Member Posts: 46
    edited February 2018
    Sorry for the late, recently I have been quite of busy with my burning crusade to the mighty course of the Legacy of Bhaal, finally I have managed to beat the entire Siege of Dragonspear, now I can spare the time sorting my thoughts.
    sarevok57 said:


    @kingnight the prices of those items will vary actually if you go and sell those items to thalantyr for the first time, he will sell it to your for a better price ( since he has none of those items in stock to begin with ) :)

    Hei, friend, thank you for the information, I run a little test and I have fully understood the system. The selling price is based on stock, lesser stocks dose the merchant hold, higher the price will he offer, but finally the price will become stable after he gets 6 items in his stock. Following list is the average decreases of Plate Mail prices, with the merchant stocks increased from 0 up to 6: 300, 270, 240, 210, 180, 150, 120. And before chapter 5, there are 9 merchants who will accept our plain items(1 in Friendly Arm Inn, 2 in Beregost, 1 in High Hedge, 1 in Nashkel, 3 in Carnival, 1 in Durlag's tower). In case we get 10 Plate Mail, and we can sell them separately to every merchants, then we will get our best selling prices, which is 300*8+270*2=2940(just remember Taerom of the Beregost already have one Plate Mail in stock, so we won't get the 300gp sell for our first time), or if we are lazy, we can sell them all to just one merchant, what is something like I do, then we will get our lowest sell, which is 300+270+240+210+180+150+120*4=1830. And with 2940-1830=1110, we will get more 1110 gold by doing this way, and what dose 1110 gold really matter? If we look into the figure carefully, we get 1830/2940 ~= 60%, this means we will get a more 60% of income by selling items to different merchants, in case we get 10000 gold by selling to just one merchant, then we will get 16000 gold if we sell them seperately. It looks like very impressive, but think of it practically: we do this for the 10 Plate Mail(in case we really have 10 Plate Mail, but in fact is not), is because Plate Mail is somehow valuable and worth of our efforts, but if we try this method for every item we loot, then we will definitely be crazy. Just think of the energy and time we will spend: travelling around to meet every merchant and recording which item would have the highest price for every loot we got, and who willing to do that just for the more 60% of income, and I believe confidently that most of the people just sell their plain itmes to the closest merchant they can get and sell their magical items to just one or two merchants(in case someday we may buy them back conveniently). This is the reality, and the differences won't vary much. If someone is really devoted enough by doing this way, just think of the price he would have paid, there was no shame for being the rich, because he earned it himself, then why shouldn't we give him the tool to acquire his goal?
    Thels said:


    But when you ask the game to include a Bag of Holding in general, for everyone, then the "It's just a single player game." logic doesn't apply, as you no longer affect just your own game.

    Baldur's Gate 1 has always been a game of "What do you carry with you, and what do you leave behind?" It's a choice you make during the game over and over and over again.

    Making it easier to see what loot is on the ground and making it easier to pick it up doesn't take away choice. It helps you make the right choice quicker, but still leaves the choice there. Adding additional bags would take choice away from the game. To some they may not be interesting choices, to others they may be.

    Yes, other containers have been added to the game, one of which requires you to recruit an NPC that half the playerbase detests, and the other half enjoys. Has it been a good addition? I dunno.

    One could argue that those items help make the inventory more sense. We can either carry around 16 sets of plate mail, or 16 scrolls? Scrolls have negligible volume and weight, but still take up an entire backpack slot. Potions and gems are similar in that regard (though not as low on volume and weight), so one could consider this a way to bypass the rather restricted '16 slots' backpack system.

    Dear @Thels , I believe you are a devoted and decent player who is loyal to the classic Baldur's Gate game, and I respect that. I only wish you could see things from different perspective.

    First, I think you really make some point. Indeed, adding a BOH in general dose not just effect my own game, but still you have mixed the ideal of "we have a BOH" with the ideal of "we have a BOH and we have to use it" together. Let's talk about another scenery, in case what I asked isn't adding a BOH into the game, but removing the Gem Bag from the game, now this time it really produces great impacts on everybody, because removing Gem Bag may please the one who dosn't want it, but also deprive the others of the lawful right to using it in the right way. However, adding a BOH make change the way we play somehow, but it never deprive the right from those who dosn't want to use it. In Baldur's Gate we have a lot of stuff, taking them dosn't mean you have to use them, like the Wand of Sleep, the Wand of Fear, the Wand of Paralyzation and the Wand of Monster Summoning, I don't like to use these items because they lower the usage of wizard spells, wizard spells always take casting times, but wands can always cast immediately and without limitation, somehow makes assaulting battle less challenged. Also, there are different races and classes, we don't have to try every one, just pick the most like. And also, there are a lot of NPCs, we don't have to recruit them but just play solo. Even with everybody in use of something and you don't, it dosen't make you out of time.

    You tell me "Baldur's Gate 1 has always been a game of 'What do you carry with you, and what do you leave behind?' It's a choice you make during the game over and over and over again.", then I have to ask you who defines it? I see you place the sentence in quote, so I think there must be a source, but I google it and I find nothing, if you can provide me a source, then I'm glad. But leave it, even what you speak of is true, it still have nothing to do with the BOH. With a BOH dosen't mean we don't have to choose, because it still have the limit. A BOH only to make us to choose more wisely, but not painfully. When speak of looting, you say that people always have to choose what they can really carry, and just leave other valuables there forever? Maybe this is what you believe, then I have to tell you what people really do, for that case, most people would just hoard the stuff they can't carry, they will go back to town clearing their stuff and then they will finally come back taking whatever they what. But just think about the time and effort wasted during travelling back and forth, can you tell me what's the meaning of this?

    Let me tell you what, we can always play the game without any of enhancement or improvement. Even we go back to 1998 and only have the classsical Baldur's Gate with us, with potions only pile up to 5, arrows and bullets only up to 20, we can still play and win, there is no doubt of it. Considering nowadays with potions pile up to 25 caps, and arrows up to 80 pieces, we will understand how fictional the EE version is and how realistic the classical version have been. But when we look forward again, we notice the improvement is that we play more happier than ever. No one would question the complexity and profession of the Baldur's Gate series, this kind of attributes please the elite players well, but also keep most of the other players out of its door(I believe most of new players would experience a painful process before they can finally get used to the system). My point is, I do agree some of these changes really make the game more mundane, but less elite. However, some one from the elite community can always play the elite way they want, even with the stuff may making them much more powerful. Such as, we can try to venture forth by only taking limited potions, ammos and spells; or just play the entire game by only using limited or even un-enchanted equipments. If we played that way, I believed most of people would have no concern about we should have or shouldn't have a BOH.



    Besides, after reviewing the entire thread, I manage to gather some other misleading concept here, then I will answer them one at a time.

    Misleading 1: With a BOH, we should throw everything in it, like chairs, tables or even undead creatures.

    We can't and we shouldn't do that, and I tell you only fools would do such a idiocy. Being everyone genius is a impossibility, but I believe for those who willing to spare their time with the mighty Baldur's Gate, at least they are not idiot, so I just assume such thing will never happen to anyone of us.

    Misleading 2: With a BOH, we should be much more riched, because we can pick up and sell everything we loot, this will unbalance the game.

    About the money issue, I think I have talked very enough. We are being rich or not mainly depends on how we use the BOH, and shouldn't depends on if we have the BOH or not. Besides, picking up and selling everything is the lawful right for every player, there is no evidence shows that if we don't have the BOH, then we can't pick up and sell everything we loot. If someone was persistent enough, he could have go back town whenever his inventory was full. The difference is, with the BOH, he can do this much more conveniently. I have heard people talking about money issue will break the game, but I've never heard about how money will break the game, I wish someone can give me a brief. From my point of view, if we are playing Insane mode, with the gears we loot during adventures, we can really handle every battle we fight, so we don't have to rely on money. If we are playing Legacy of Bhaal mode, even with the most powerful gears , it still can't save you from some critical fights, so we can't rely on money. Then how money should break the game?



    But I do understand the concern about new features being added to the game, for those who can't accept, it's because it really tear down the memories and feelings from their early experiences. So I can be bargained with and fall back a little. Considering the situation of having a BOH during the Tale of Sword Coast may finally produce duplication with the BOH from the Siege of Drangonspear--this may lower the value of the BOH from the SOD and make it less expectable, indeed we shouldn't have the full-version of BOH during the TOS, maybe a half-version of BOH with only 20 slots should be much more suitable for new players. Maybe we shouldn't call it as "Bad of Holding" at all, just give it another name, such as "Tranzig's Respite" and make it distinct with the true version of the BOH, like the Dragomir's Respite do.

    Post edited by kingnight on
    ProontLoldrup
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @kingnight you are so close to understanding how to sell for profit, but missed the most important point! When you arrive at a merchant who does not have any stock of the time you want to sell, arrange for one of your party to have an inventory full of just that item, 16 in total. You can highlight all 16 before hitting 'sell' and so gain 16x the full price.

    With a bag of holding, you can generate much bigger stacks, and a conscientious tradesman/looter is not going to settle for less than full price of everything in the whole campaign, and have a much easier time toting it around as well. That is an economy the first game was never set to handle - although the economy for the careful seller is already pretty broken.

    Proont
  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,815
    tbone1 said:

    joluv said:

    They could just throw some particularly scary undead or construct in the bag with the iron and let BG1 players open it at their own risk.



    Ooh! Don't know my own strength!



    ThacoBellProontGarvin77
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