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Why not adding a bag of holding to BG1 and save our efforts from importing one from EEKeeper?

24

Comments

  • Garvin77Garvin77 Member Posts: 52
    I'd think that, if the Infinity Engine games weren't meant to be played single-player, they wouldn't have that option at all. But they do (thank the Gods and developers; not everyone has someone to play with, mainly because they live out in the country and can't sleep at night in a big city, which is where all of their friends, save one or two, have moved to, and also because they grew up playing single-player games, have Autism and/or agoraphobia (fear of crowds or strangers), and/or just simply have trouble functioning with a group of people)!

    Skatan
  • Garvin77Garvin77 Member Posts: 52
    Anyway, regarding the topic at hand: I think a Bag of Holding (or two... or three!) would be an excellent addition to Baldur's Gate! I think it's safe to say that quite a number of players will pick up and sell every bit of loot they can carry, kingnight and myself included, probably because we're used to games that reward players for having coin-purses bigger than all of the Forgotten Realms combined (a la The Elder Scrolls; ever since Daggerfall we've been able to purchase property, although purchasing property was taken away in Morrowind, and was replaced with construction of one's own mansion, but I digress).

    Proont
  • Garvin77Garvin77 Member Posts: 52
    I'm still more interested in a mod adding Bags of Holding than the developers; that would be the only way to appease both sides of the argument.

  • NikomakkosNikomakkos Member Posts: 44
    edited February 2018

    Don't know about others, but my bags of holding are bugged at the moment. Happened with the one with the coffin, but it seems to be a general problem.

    Meaning everything I put into the bag and take out again is still in the bag (and a copy in the inventory) when I look into it again. Unlimited rare items sound fun, but I prefer to play a bit more honest. Tried to add a bag of holding (bag04) with keeper for a workaround, same problem.

    Are you experiencing it in 2.3 or 2.5, @RazaDelrom ?
    I am experiencing this with my Scroll Case. I just downloaded and installed Siege of Dragonspear on Steam, so latest version (not beta). It seems to take me at least three iterations of taking a scroll out of the case before it stops duplicating and finally leaves the case.

    But honestly I am way more worried about the journal issue since that is stopping me playing the game (BG2). While I don't like stepping on OP's toes, I sincerely hope you focus on game breaking issues before adding in items for convenience (although it would probably take a very short time to put a Bag of Holding somewhere into BG1, it will take time for you to discuss whether you should do it).

    And I know the journal issue isn't strictly game breaking. The quests are still working. But for someone playing the game for the first time, or for me anyway, it just means I don't play the game. Which I just bought. It's disappointing, since I wanted to continue my journey from BG1. I'd prefer not to have to wait forever while you guys discuss whether to add Bags of Holding.

    I hope I'm not being a selfish dick.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,811
    @Nikomakkos Container issues are fixed in the beta, SoD is not a part of the beta.

    I have nothing to add about the journal issue besides what I have already replied about it (it's planned for the 2.5 patch).

    Nikomakkos
  • NikomakkosNikomakkos Member Posts: 44
    Thanks @JuliusBorisov , sorry if I'm being pedantic.

    @kingnight Some advice for you regarding inventory management. You most certainly don't need to sell every weapon or piece of armor that you find (or any for that matter). I finished the game with over 200k gold that I couldn't and didn't need to spend and you can't carry the gold with you into the next game.

    If you recruit Neera, she'll give you a Gem Bag. You can dismiss her afterwards if you like. If you sell only gems and magical items that you find you will have more than enough money.

    If you want more money immediately to buy all you want before continuing further with the story, here's something you can do that is less of a grind than the inventory management. I'll put it in a spoiler if you don't want to see it since it's perhaps a bit cheesy and makes gold concerns irrelevant:

    If you go to the area immediately north of the Friendly Arm Inn and rest in the Ankheg cave, you can collect Ankheg shells and sell them for 500g each at the smithy in Beregost. If you have some strong NPCs in your party, like Minsc, Kivan or Dorn, you won't have to make too many trips to get enough gold for all the expensive goodies. This way you won't have to worry about holding on to every shortbow you come across.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,984
    i must be one of the only weirdos who actually like the inventory management game

    SkatanFluent
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,963
    sarevok57 said:

    i must be one of the only weirdos who actually like the inventory management game

    I used to too, back in the day. But nowadays it's all about testing different builds or just speeding through BG1 because I want to reach BG2 or whatever, and then everything that slows down that speed stops being funny and becomes a nuisance. So containers and ctrl-J becomes my two best friends. So you're not weird, it can be as simple as being governed by priorities. Had I had more time to play and not felt stressed maximizing the effect from those two hours I could squeeze in one evening, I'd might just still enjoy the inventory game.

    ProontStummvonBordwehr
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,984
    interesting, how long does it take you to "speed" through the game to bg2? because even when i do a gold piece run ( which means uncovering every single piece of FoW off the map as much as possible and going to every single area possible and picking up everything that is basically 2 GP or more ) and i do virtually every quest ( the only ones i dont finish are the ones that make me trade in an item worth GP for XP ) and it only takes me around 16 hours and thats a FULL run (minus SoD) on insane difficulty ( no mods mind you) and even with this said, i still do the inventory management game

    and if i solo the game on insane, it only takes me like 4 or 5 hours to beat the game
    and if i solo the game on story mode, i can grab all the tomes and beat the game in like 30-40 minutes

    and i never use ctrl-J

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,963
    Then you are a much better player than me, no doubt. After playing the game countless times I still forget where all the traps are or in which house I go to return the necklace, etc. I'm nowhere near as good as many of you guys in here, but I get by.

    I guess I can finish BG1 as a thief or with a thief (siren trick) in one sitting or two and do the mainquests and some funny sidequests, so in maybe 6 or so hours. This includes Rasaad's, Dorn's and Neera's quests to get the items from their personal quests if I want to hoard them in my keepered Bag of holding. This excludes Durlag's 'cause I only do the tower on full runs with more RP aspects, which is quite seldom these days.

    sarevok57
  • Garvin77Garvin77 Member Posts: 52
    @Skatan: I sympathise with you, my friend! I could never be anywhere near as good as @sarevok57, though I still hold out hope. ;) That said, I like taking my time, seeing all the wonderful sights and details that have been put in to a game; speed-running will never be my thing, as I don't see the point of it, other than bragging rights (and I hate people who brag; I hate myself enough already, I certainly don't need to start bragging to further lower my already non-existent self-esteem). Also, like you, I'll never be able to remember fine details like the exact coordinate-ranges of every single trap in the entire game, though I can remember the best way to play through a game (i.e. best path through the game, optimal order of which areas to visit at what level(s), things like that); and, unlike sarevok57, I'll probably never be able to play on higher difficulty-levels, but this is where I hope I might, one day, be able to do better (I struggle enough with normal/average difficulty-levels in most games, and even on easy difficulty in particularly challenging games).

    sarevok57Skatan
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,984
    i think the reason why i finish the game so quickly is because my meta game is so strong, and as @Garvin77 states, im also optimal on which areas to do and when, plus i always play at 60 FPS, and that makes a huge difference, in fact, back in the day BG2 was able to go up to 90 FPS which i use to play at, so 60 FPS feels like slugglish child's play to me hahaha

    and don't worry @Garvin77 waaaaaaay back in the day when i first played bg2 i always played on the easiest difficulty ( it wasn't as extreme as story mode, but enemies did pathetic amounts of damage to you ) and i played like that for 2 years or so, but then one day i just cranked her to full on max and i actually started enjoying the game more, just getting wiped from things that normally i could survive with ease

    but with that being said, there is a limit to my masochism, i don't play with any SCS/Ascension type mods or anything like that because i feel those mods are just way too tedious to get through ( although i did try them once waaaaaaaaay back in the day, and i didn't enjoy them at all )

    so for me, insane difficulty ( as intended AKA double damage ) with no mods is my sweet spot :)

    Garvin77
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,070
    I don't even play the management game in BG1 anymore. Is it magical? No? Then I don't I don't even pick it up. If its not of immediate use to the party, sold.

    ProontContemplative_Hamster
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,984
    that's fair since when i do GP runs i hit over 650 000 on average, and it's not really necessary to have that much gold

    Garvin77
  • Garvin77Garvin77 Member Posts: 52
    @sarevok57: Unless you're a numismatist... or capitalist... or a bureaucrat. :D

    ThacoBellsarevok57Proont
  • gugulug5000gugulug5000 Member Posts: 235
    What about adding a Bag of Holding into a secret spot similar to the free Ankheg Plate Mail in Nashkel? That way it's hidden from new players so they don't pick it up without intentionally looking up its location, and that way those who don't want it can just ignore it. Seems reasonable to me.

    StummvonBordwehrsarevok57ProontLoldrup
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 831
    Dee said:

    For those of y'all struggling with ammo stacks, though, might I suggest the recoverable ammunition component I authored? (I don't recall if @CamDawg incorporated it into Tweaks or not) It turns all of the purchased ammunition into 20-charge items that recharge when you rest, making the inventory management minigame a little less irritating while still keeping some of the stress of limited resources.

    @Dee thank you for your insights. I cannot but agree on most parts - and I am glad that you shared the reasons for excluding the bag.. Thanks.

    I still have the original discs for Bg1, bg2 and Tob, and played a heavily modded game untill the iPhone version came up. Playing on an iPhone works well and its perfectly fitted into my current life - luckily BD has done one h... of a job making it work on an iPhone!!

    I am one of those who made a redmine ticket requesting a bag of holding. CamDawg tweaks are great, and imho a must.... But Apple and modding dont mix :'(. So I agree that mods easily could have done the job - but the game is now played on platforms where modding isnt easy... and therefore the ticket.

    Btw if CamDawgs tweaks where made available for iPhone I would be really happy.. until then a bag of holding will have to do (hopefully)


    Ps: thank you @rede9 for finding the in game excuse for adding the bag.

    Proont
  • kingnightkingnight Member Posts: 46
    edited February 2018
    I have seen my issue catched a lot of attentions, I'm flattered, but still thank you all, then I have to reply one at a time.
    xizor said:


    Second, it may break the game for new players, who want to play the actual BG with some improvements, and instead get some simplified version.

    Maybe you are right, but I still have to question about what exactly is 'the actual BG' we are talking about, I think there is no one who can give a definite definition. As I previously replied, all the BG1 we got nowdays is back by the BG2 engine. When speak to the actual BG, I think I have something to say. I still remember the original version of BG stick closely to the middle age European style--with all the building we seen, all the items we used, and all the creatures we fought, are quite of middle age design, and BG2 is looked like much more fantastic and scientific fictional. When I first time play the WEIDU BG1, I saw my character grabbed a middle shield with twisted shape and whiskers or wore a helmet with two weird needle stretch out--something was quite of unmatched to the environment, I was shocked, but still I accepted. And my point is, we can't go back to the days things really are. Now, Tale of Sword coast, Siege of Dragonspear, Shadow of Amn and Throne of Bhaal belong to a same system, a same engine, a same tactics, and SOD, SOA, TOB all have their BOH, why not TOS can have one. Is it because the play are too low level, or because the enemies are not strong enough, or just because the player is too poor, and is it really fair? Maybe I'm noisy, a little, I just don't understand why a BOH should break the actual game, or the balance as some people said, and what a effect a BOH can really make. I just don't understand, please convince me.

    One thing you mentioned is really stick to the point, I thank your for that. We are really in desperate need of the ammo belt, because when the game move on, we should collect a lot of magical arrows, something is much helpful and should be used sparingly, so we should carry them all the time.
    Garvin77 said:


    I think it's safe to say that quite a number of players will pick up and sell every bit of loot they can carry, kingnight and myself included, probably because we're used to games that reward players for having coin.


    You most certainly don't need to sell every weapon or piece of armor that you find (or any for that matter). I finished the game with over 200k gold that I couldn't and didn't need to spend and you can't carry the gold with you into the next game.

    If you want more money immediately to buy all you want before continuing further with the story, here's something you can do that is less of a grind than the inventory management. I'll put it in a spoiler if you don't want to see it since it's perhaps a bit cheesy and makes gold concerns irrelevant:

    @Garvin77 You are definitely right, I'm really intended to gather as much gold as I can, not just because it's the way I like, but also bacause it's the way the game should be play with, though I feel quite of disappointed that we can't bring our money into the next epic. Besides, I'm not picking up every items that I encounter, I only pick up 'valuable' items, even though, I still feel the inventory is quite of tight for me.

    @Nikomakkos Thank you for the spoiler. Although I don't have too much trouble with money making, but the spoiler you provided can really save much of my effords, I should try it the next time. I think you are right about the money, it's true we couldn't and didn't need to spend too many and we can't carry the gold into the next game, but it's not fully true. Now I'm under the voyage of Legacy of Bhaal, I think we have been talking about that a lot. When reaching the very end of BG1, I raised my fund up to 330,000GP, quite of large I think. I know at SOD enemies are always appear in bundles, and I don't intend to kill them all one at a time, so I switch my tactics into Web + Exploding. I get two mages in my team, and I gona need a hell lot of firework. Though we can't bring our gold into the next life, but at least we can bring our wares, and that's why I exchange my GPs into 12 fully-charged and 6 20's-charged Wand of Fire. And guess what, just after finishing chapter 8, I have already consumed more than half of my wands. I'm quite of headache right now, because knowing I'm gona use up all of my wands and my money is tight, if that happens, something nasty can really happen, I'm too weak and the enemies are too many and too powerful. My point is, nothing is really enough, it depends on which challenge you take. I wish I could make much more money in the previous game, and could be much more prepared for the next game, maybe next time, I can use your spoiler and try as @Garvin77 suggest--'pick up and sell every bit of loot they can carry'. In that condition, I think a BOH is really nice to have.


    As I see only from this thread alone, the voice of people who don't want to get the BoH implemented in BG:EE is heard quite loudly.

    We've seen arguments that introducing 3 Flaming Fist soldiers instead of 1 can break the early game (as 3 plate mails are enough for the whole party, figher-wise, and they cost a lot).

    The BoH would greatly improve the amount of gold the party gets - instead of selling swords, shields and armors in quantities the inventory can cover now we would be able to sell a whole hundred of them at the maximum price.

    What I'm trying to explain here is that it's impossible to sort requests as humble, easy, quick, not-breaking, all things considered.

    There're a few things I'd like to point out - not as a person who makes game-related decisions, but as an observer.

    Thank you decently for such an insightful comment, and I also have words.

    As the host of this thread, I know about which one agrees and which one opposes as well, maybe the voice demanding the benefit wasn't as loud as the one opposing it, but there is still a voice, and that voice is not little as I hear about.

    For the 3 Flamming Fist soldiers, I think I have something to share. I admit the first time I play the EE when I encounter not one but three Fist in the south of Beregost, I was totally shocked. I don't understand why there are 3 Fist, maybe it just want to prevent the player to across the law too easily I guess, but in fact it bring the player much more benefits as you say. So I agree this is an issue that can really bring about much arguments, but from my point of view, the two cases--the Fist case and the BOH case--can't bring them together. If we want to debate the issue and see what differences the two case really are, then we have to stick closely to the changed variables, and valuate their econsequences. For the Fist case, the number of the officers changed from 1 into 3, so the changed variable is two more officers being added; and for the BOH case, the number of BOH changed from 0 into 1, so the changed variable is one BOH being added. In the Fist case, we can't choose to fight just the one officer that has been original there and leave the two new officers alone, if we fight we have to fight them all. However, in the BOH case, we can always choose to have the BOH, or just to leave it alone. And the consequences, in the Fist case, if we choose to fight, we are being the criminal of murdering not one but three Fist officers just for their outfits, and that can never be changed. But in the BOH case, if we choose to have the BOH, maybe we can be much more riched--there I pick the word 'maybe' deliberately because it's fully depends on how we use the BOH, even so, we can still choose to live like a poor man.

    For the gold issue, I think the money can only take its significant effects at the early stage, but this can truly be avoided by delaying the possession of the BOH. Even we are being very riched afterwards, there are still very few of superior items we can buy from store, and for those items, I believe players can always have them with or without the effects of BOH. So money isn't really a issue that we should argue about, from my current observation, the most intense agenda is about the inventory management, look like some people believe if there is a BOH in use, there shouldn't be any inventory management at all, but this isn't true. Containers can only slow the intension, and bring some conveniences, there are still a lot of things we have to sort out.

    And for the requests priorities, I believe requests should be fully examed in case something turn out to be ponderous. Although requests can't be sorted as the way you have suggested, but I believe there are some requests which are always least effort and greatest benefit.

    May I ask humbly about your position as a developer, are you a programmer, artist or designer?
    sarevok57 said:


    i must be one of the only weirdos who actually like the inventory management game

    There is no doubt that you are a professional player, I have read some of your comments about the Legacy of Bhaal, I'm undertaking the course right now, maybe we can share some experiences if you leave me a clue about which thread you are most frequently using.
    Dee said:


    If you can just put those forty stacks of arrows into a bag of holding, the Nashkel Mines (and every other long dungeon crawl) become a lot less scary, since you're much less likely to run out of resources and have to go back to town.

    Weight management (i.e. management of your carrying weight to avoid encumbrance) is the other way the game balances loot drops.

    Imagine if you could kill ten ankhegs and take all their shells, instead of only one or two. You'd be able to get yourself thousands of gold, early in the game.

    Thank you for reply. I have to say, BOH only have 40 slots, and that number take count of the stackable items, such as, if you put 40 arrow into en empty bag, it will right away make the bag full. That's why a ammo belt should be needed too. I don't think weight management should be took into account too much, I believe our protagonist is alway being his/her best shape, and there are several fancy teammates(like Minsc, Dorn, Kivan) can really do the good job, and for some graceful ladies, I always spare them to just carry ammos, this can be easily balanced. As I say sincerely, I have to get back to town seldomly becasue I can't carry the weight, but always because I'm out of inventory. Even if what you speak of really happens, it also happens in SOD, SOA, TOB, then why just TOS alone is so important, and should be so concerned. And I believe something like Ankheg Shell, Wyvern Head should never be allow to put into the BOH.

    At last I really appreciate @Skatan and @Garvin77 's support.

    Post edited by kingnight on
    sarevok57ProontJuliusBorisovLoldrup
  • Luke93Luke93 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,312
    edited February 2018

    CamDawg tweaks are great, and imho a must.... But Apple and modding dont mix :'(. So I agree that mods easily could have done the job - but the game is now played on platforms where modding isn't easy...

    My guide should be sufficiently clear about installing mods on iOS devices -> The only thing people may not like is the fact that the whole procedure is based on a no longer supported version of iTunes. In any case, it's better than nothing....

    StummvonBordwehr
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 831
    Luke93 said:

    CamDawg tweaks are great, and imho a must.... But Apple and modding dont mix :'(. So I agree that mods easily could have done the job - but the game is now played on platforms where modding isnt easy...

    My guide should be sufficiently clear about installing mods on iOS devices ->
    @Luke93 it is. And thank you (and off course @subtledoctor) for your great work on that topic....
    But I am not great with computers (and english is not my first language), so it is something that would be a considerable effort for me. But we can discuss further in your thread - I have had it bookmarked since day 1.

    Luke93
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,984
    @kingnight to be perfectly honest i kind of hate the LoB difficulty, i find it kind of tedious and boring, and even though im a power game extraordinaire i just dont find LoB fun

    and when it comes to forums threads, i float around all over the place although the baldur's gate logic, and greatest face palm moments threads are the most active ones ( and this one ) so far :)

    kingnightLoldrup
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    I would love a bag of holding (not bottomless) in BG1 EE for one simple reason, and one only. I like to optimize selling all my loot in stacks of 16 to stores that don't carry that item to maximize income. I don't need the money, but can't help myself "scoring the most points" and "making best use of my resources".

    A bag of holding will let me sell in much larger groups than 16, which is why it takes me forever to get to salable quantities of loot at the start of BG2EE ;)

    sarevok57ProontkingnightLoldrup
  • gugulug5000gugulug5000 Member Posts: 235
    I want more containers just because inventory management is tedious, and to me it doesn't really bring anything to the game. One of the first things I do when I play is gather containers so I don't have to deal with it. I understand the concern for breaking balance, but this is a single player game, and letting one person imbalance their own game doesn't affect the rest of players.

    I'm curious what the anti-BoH people think about the suggestion to add one (and maybe an ammo belt) to a hidden container somewhere like the Ankheg Plate Mail in Nashkel. That plate mail is free, and also imbalances the game, but it's hidden so basically the only people who get it are the ones who are actively looking for it. Is that a fair compromise for people?

    Proont
  • Garvin77Garvin77 Member Posts: 52
    @dunbar: With your one, short, concise, but informative, inference, you have fully swayed me to @kingnight's side, though I do agree with others that a Bag of Holding should either be hidden like the suit of Ankheg Plate-mail in Nashkel, or added to a character that would logically have one, and at a logical progress-point in the game.

    StummvonBordwehrProont
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,070
    You know the best way to avoid item management? Just don't do it. Nobody makes you pick everything up. I exclusively pick up magic items and then immediately sell any that aren't useful. I never have to manage dozens of items and I still get more than enough money to clean out all the useful items in stores and as many spells as I want.

    FluentGreenWarlock
  • FluentFluent Member Posts: 64
    I am trying to make a conscious effort to not be such a hoarder/control freak when playing RPGs like BG. I like inventory management in a game like this. However, I'm pissed right now. I started a run awhile back of modded BG with EET and didn't realize that the Tweaks Anthology mod added a bunch of Bags of Holding to the game. Not realizing at the time that it affects the balance in a negative way (inventory management is an integral part of an RPG like this for me), I probably ended up breaking the game by A) being able to carry everything and then some, and B) making ridiculous amounts of gold so soon that Siege of Dragonspear I can buy whatever the hell I want and tons more. I didn't realize at the time that BoHs were a detriment to the balance and not in BG1 by default (been awhile since I played + I'm a BG newb, really.)

    Blah.

  • FluentFluent Member Posts: 64
    edited February 2018

    I want more containers just because inventory management is tedious, and to me it doesn't really bring anything to the game. One of the first things I do when I play is gather containers so I don't have to deal with it. I understand the concern for breaking balance, but this is a single player game, and letting one person imbalance their own game doesn't affect the rest of players.

    I'm curious what the anti-BoH people think about the suggestion to add one (and maybe an ammo belt) to a hidden container somewhere like the Ankheg Plate Mail in Nashkel. That plate mail is free, and also imbalances the game, but it's hidden so basically the only people who get it are the ones who are actively looking for it. Is that a fair compromise for people?

    I'm only "anti-BoH" so far as my own playthrough. Anyone else is completely free to do what they want. To me, the inventory management is essential to a satisfying playthrough. I like to consider which items to keep, which to ditch, and decide how I should plan my journey (should I take that extra ammo stack even though it might weigh me down more? Hmm, this magical club is heavy but effective, etc..) I like that, your mileage may vary.

    It's the reason I also like RPGs like Morrowind where you have to manage your weight limit more. I'm not the type to clear out a dungeon, teleport instantly to town and sell 25 sets of armor, teleport back and continue doing that. Since the games were designed to NOT do that at the time, I try to keep it that sort of old-school experience. So that's just me. Otherwise, why have any restrictions at all in the game? Give unlimited weight limit, unlimited spell memorization, unlimited everything. That isn't my idea of fun, though, but that's just me.

    But if anyone else wants to add 20 BoHs to their game, more power to them. :smiley:

    sarevok57lefreut
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