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Why not adding a bag of holding to BG1 and save our efforts from importing one from EEKeeper?

13

Comments

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,339
    What Fluent said, indeed.

    kingnight can keep on calling "but nobody really knows what the base game is anymore", but that's nonsense. The base game is the unmodded, currently available game.

    The base game doesn't, and never has had any Bags of Holding in it. It's been designed under the assumption that you cannot carry everything with you, and if you somehow manage to, you end up with more gold, faster than intended. BG1 can quickly hit a level where gold becomes worthless.

    I don't agree that storing it in a hidden container solves the problem, not now that there's the button for tablets where containers are always lit up. Even the hidden containers are now easily visible even when you aren't looking for them/aware where they are.

    Yes, it's annoying if you're on an OS where you are unable to easily mod the game you want it to be, but really, should the base experience be tweaked into unbalance, because some people prefer to skip over the inventory management while using a platform that restricts modding?

    Bags of holding aren't part of the core experience, and shouldn't be forced upon people. If you want them, mod them in. If your OS doesn't allow you to do so, consider your own choice in the OS that you use.

    ThacoBell
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,981
    perhaps the bag of holding should be implemented for the tablet/phone devices and kept out for PC/mac users?

    StummvonBordwehr
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,752
    joluv said:

    Perhaps the console should be implemented for the tablet/phone devices.

    It's one of the popular feature requests submitted on the tracker: https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/33033
    kingnight said:



    May I ask humbly about your position as a developer, are you a programmer, artist or designer?

    I'm not a part of the development process, being only a community manager.

    I can reply to the question as a player, however. In different playthroughs of BG I use a different approach towards this. Sometimes, I don't add the BoH via a console. Sometimes, I do. For example, in Multiplayer I almost always do that as travelling back and forth is something that should be done in Multiplayer less, considering time to play is limited for everyone.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    While I still think a bag of holding is overpowered for the first game, I agree this would be the best place to introduce one if that were the plan.

    ThacoBellsarevok57Proont
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,339
    sarevok57 said:

    perhaps the bag of holding should be implemented for the tablet/phone devices and kept out for PC/mac users?

    That would still be forcing it upon tablet users, and they can't mod out of it. It would also be odd if content between desktop and tablet versions differed.

    Garvin77
  • kingnightkingnight Member Posts: 45
    After observation of couple of days, I've seen more people approving my issue begin to float out, I'm glad for that, still one at a time.
    sarevok57 said:


    To be perfectly honest i kind of hate the LoB difficulty, i find it kind of tedious and boring, and even though im a power game extraordinaire i just dont find LoB fun.

    I think maybe outrageous is much more suitable for describing the LOB, but I had to admit, once I have found a way to get across, it really give me the strong feeling of conquest and success. Needless to say, that I have to reload and try a lot of times until I finally get passed. Since the Bhaalspawn is too powerful and with the Insane difficulty can't even match his/her might, I think there is little choose we have to extend the half-god's power.


    I like to optimize selling all my loot in stacks of 16 to stores that don't carry that item to maximize income. I don't need the money, but can't help myself "scoring the most points" and "making best use of my resources".

    That's definitely the way I play, thank you very much for pointting that out. We people just love to gather whatever we should no matter we have the real need or not. I collect generously and use sparingly, in every fight I alway evaluate how much potion, scroll, spell, item to be consumed or hitpoint to be lost, I always do my best fight or reload. So I always end up with lots of unused consumables and large sum of gold, though I really don't need them but I still love to have them. There is no shame on collecting things.


    I understand the concern for breaking balance, but this is a single player game, and letting one person imbalance their own game doesn't affect the rest of players.

    I think most people just misplace themself look like we are in a same multi-player game world.
    dunbar said:


    'Balance' is a word that crops up time and time again on this forum (quite rightly so in my opinion). The problem is the "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" syndrome.

    In this case the introduction of the Tab function made finding loot ridiculously easy and, coupled with the Quickloot function which makes it effortless to pick up every single arrow, this meant that inventory management suddenly became more of an issue.

    Therefore, in the interest of 'balance', would it not be reasonable to add a BoH simply because of the aforementioned 'new' functions?

    You guy are pretty awesome that I have to quote every words of your speech here again! You are definitely right, things are developing, and for those who still living in 90's they can linger in their world, but we want improvement, and most important we want pleasure, and there are higher standard of challenges that we should focus our mind with, which is exploring, fighting and killing.
    Garvin77 said:


    @dunbar: With your one, short, concise, but informative, inference, you have fully swayed me to @kingnight's side.

    Thank you very much, I almost shed tear on you. T_T
    Fluent said:


    I am trying to make a conscious effort to ...However, I'm pissed right now.

    I started a run awhile back of modded BG with EET and didn't realize that the Tweaks Anthology mod added a bunch of Bags of Holding to the game. Not realizing at the time that it affects the balance in a negative way, I probably ended up breaking the game by A) being able to carry everything and then some, and B) making ridiculous amounts of gold so soon that Siege of Dragonspear I can buy whatever the hell I want and tons more.

    I'm only "anti-BoH" so far as my own playthrough. Anyone else is completely free to do what they want. To me, the inventory management is essential to a satisfying playthrough. I like to consider which items to keep, which to ditch, and decide how I should plan my journey (should I take that extra ammo stack even though it might weigh me down more? Hmm, this magical club is heavy but effective, etc..) I like that, your mileage may vary.

    But if anyone else wants to add 20 BoHs to their game, more power to them.

    Thank you for your suggestions, I fully understand your concern, but I also have words for you.

    First, there is no need to be angry, everything can be settled by negotiating. Second, I think you have misled my demands, I never ask that there should be a bunch of BOH, and I never state that we should carry everything and then making ridiculous amounts of gold so soon, and besides, we can't bring our gold into SOD, even though, I can still buy whatever I want. I think you just take that BOH too seriously, a BOH is just a tool, and it can never make us god.

    We still have to do inventory management with or without the BOH, it's just not completely like the way you think of. Please think a second thought when you play with SOA, we can acquire Dragomir's Respite very early by compleleting Hexxat's not so hard quest. It's a 100 slots BOH, and I think most people are really excited to have it, and we still have to do inventory management, because more the things we put in there, harder the way we find our useful, and I never get my Respite stuck is because of my inventory management. I think I have make my point quite of clear.

    Finally, I think only one BOH is really sufficient for most of the guys.
    Thels said:


    kingnight can keep on calling "but nobody really knows what the base game is anymore", but that's nonsense. The base game is the unmodded, currently available game.

    The base game doesn't, and never has had any Bags of Holding in it. It's been designed under the assumption that you cannot carry everything with you, and if you somehow manage to, you end up with more gold, faster than intended. BG1 can quickly hit a level where gold becomes worthless.

    If you stick so much to the point you think of, then I have to argue with you, peacefully.

    Please just take a closer look upon our current unmodded EE edtion, and comparing it with the first released edition, then you can find how many our game have improved, and you think this improvements can just happen to themself without the interferences of the mod communities? Who would gona believe that. So the time line is always changing, maybe today we complain about with/without something, but the other day we will accept it, as I say, there is no really standards that we should have or shouldn't have something. I'm here only to talk about reality.

    And for the EE Edition, I have to point out there are two important improvements which are related to our topic: first is the quick picking bar, second is about the second-handed equitment. For the first, just think about how we loot before the EE edtion, after every battle we have to spin our mouse to every dead body, and then scroll from the intentory menu to pick the item of our interest, and this action happens over and over again. And for the second, we all know about we can equip bow and shield at the same time(but only one active), this is really helpful for our tanks, when the enemy is in range, we use bow, then when they get close, we switch to melee weapon and shield. Just take a carefully look at how many steps we have to go with before the 2.0 patch: 1. click the weapon switch icon; 2. open Inventory; 3. drag your bow off; 4. drag your shield on; 5. close Inventory. When we have done fighting, and switch the bow back on, then we have to do all these steps reversely. Maybe some of the inventory guys still think that it's the "base game" and it really are, and you can enjoy and have fun about it, but for me and for most of the people I guess, is not. But yet, the game still move on and violate what some people originally think of, it happens because it can really makes people happy.

    And for your second statement, you claim that the Base Game should never have a BOH, but still it have a Potion Case, a Gem Bag, a Scroll Case, and how you gona explain it, that we should have a Gem Bag, and shouldn't have a BOH? I have noticed maybe the money issue is the most controversial topic, whatever we speak of, we always speak with evidences. And there are my statements:

    I believe most people would always pick up enchanted items, so the debate only goes to plain items, and let us see how value they are. Here's a list of the most common items that we can meet in the Tale of Sword coast, tabled by name and price:

    Two-handed Sword - 25gp
    Bastard Sword - 5gp
    Long Sword - 3gp
    Short Sword - 2gp
    Flail - 3gp
    Dagger - 1gp
    Morning Star - 2gp
    Mace - 2gp
    Club - 0gp
    Halberd - 3gp
    War Hammer - 1gp
    Spear - 1gp
    Quarterstaff - 0gp
    Composite Longbow - 25gp
    Longbow - 22gp
    Shortbow - 6gp
    Plate Mail - 180gp
    Splint Mail - 28gp
    Chain Mail - 26gp
    Studded Leather Armor - 5gp
    Leather Armor - 1gp
    Helmet - 1gp
    Large Shield - 2gp
    Medium Shield - 1gp
    Small Shield - 1gp

    You guys really think by selling these items can make you wealthy? We have notice the most valuable stuff is the Plate Mail, and just think carefully how many Plate Mail we can really get before the chapter five, only few. Even you can get a ten, sell them all just earn you 1800 gold, is that really matter a lot? Now the debate goes to the Gem Bag, we don't have a Bag of Hoding, but we do have a Bag of Gem, this makes our feeling that gems should be picked, and plain item shouldn't. I won't list a gems's prices here, but you can look up your own save game if it interest you, it turns out to be gems provide far more valuable than the plain items. If some one would argue that the gem was rare, and plain items were many, every monsters carried one or two. But it isn't true, only humanoid can drop weapons and armors, and these isn't that many at all. Quite the contrary, after every fight, I can always pick up a gem or two from whoever I killed. If someone still have the concern or imagination that a BOH can help you a lot, I really recommend that they shall play the whole game with the BOH, and try whatever they think of, then they will see how far they can really get.


    I'm not a part of the development process, being only a community manager.

    Awesome, I think it'll explain why I always see you names everywhere.

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,339
    edited February 2018
    kingnight said:


    I understand the concern for breaking balance, but this is a single player game, and letting one person imbalance their own game doesn't affect the rest of players.

    I think most people just misplace themself look like we are in a same multi-player game world.
    Err, there is a BIG difference between breaking the balance on your own single player game, and forcing that change of balance for all players. I have nothing against people using mods to add extra Bags of Holding, and if there was like an option in the menu "Add extra bags of holding to the game." then I'd be perfectly fine with that.

    But when you ask the game to include a Bag of Holding in general, for everyone, then the "It's just a single player game." logic doesn't apply, as you no longer affect just your own game.
    kingnight said:

    Thels said:


    kingnight can keep on calling "but nobody really knows what the base game is anymore", but that's nonsense. The base game is the unmodded, currently available game.

    The base game doesn't, and never has had any Bags of Holding in it. It's been designed under the assumption that you cannot carry everything with you, and if you somehow manage to, you end up with more gold, faster than intended. BG1 can quickly hit a level where gold becomes worthless.

    If you stick so much to the point you think of, then I have to argue with you, peacefully.

    Please just take a closer look upon our current unmodded EE edtion, and comparing it with the first released edition, then you can find how many our game have improved, and you think this improvements can just happen to themself without the interferences of the mod communities? Who would gona believe that. So the time line is always changing, maybe today we complain about with/without something, but the other day we will accept it, as I say, there is no really standards that we should have or shouldn't have something. I'm here only to talk about reality.

    And for the EE Edition, I have to point out there are two important improvements which are related to our topic: first is the quick picking bar, second is about the second-handed equitment. For the first, just think about how we loot before the EE edtion, after every battle we have to spin our mouse to every dead body, and then scroll from the intentory menu to pick the item of our interest, and this action happens over and over again. And for the second, we all know about we can equip bow and shield at the same time(but only one active), this is really helpful for our tanks, when the enemy is in range, we use bow, then when they get close, we switch to melee weapon and shield. Just take a carefully look at how many steps we have to go with before the 2.0 patch: 1. click the weapon switch icon; 2. open Inventory; 3. drag your bow off; 4. drag your shield on; 5. close Inventory. When we have done fighting, and switch the bow back on, then we have to do all these steps reversely. Maybe some of the inventory guys still think that it's the "base game" and it really are, and you can enjoy and have fun about it, but for me and for most of the people I guess, is not. But yet, the game still move on and violate what some people originally think of, it happens because it can really makes people happy.
    Yes, the game has been in active development, and a lot of improvements have been nice. Other improvements have been... less ideal. Just because a game has been changing doesn't mean that it should automatically welcome all future change.

    Also always keep in mind that the group that wants the game to be changed is always more vocal than the group that likes the game as is. They already got what they want. Counting supporters versus objectors gives a skewered result. Not to mention new players.

    Baldur's Gate 1 has always been a game of "What do you carry with you, and what do you leave behind?" It's a choice you make during the game over and over and over again.

    Making it easier to see what loot is on the ground and making it easier to pick it up doesn't take away choice. It helps you make the right choice quicker, but still leaves the choice there. Adding additional bags would take choice away from the game. To some they may not be interesting choices, to others they may be.

    For those that really like to carry EVERYTHING that the game drops around with them, the Bag of Holding ain't going to help. There's way too much mundane stuff. They'd still have to install Tweaks to make the bag bottomless. If they're gonna need to install that mod anyhow, there's really no point in meeting them halfway.

    Yes, other containers have been added to the game, one of which requires you to recruit an NPC that half the playerbase detests, and the other half enjoys. Has it been a good addition? I dunno.

    One could argue that those items help make the inventory more sense. We can either carry around 16 sets of plate mail, or 16 scrolls? Scrolls have negligible volume and weight, but still take up an entire backpack slot. Potions and gems are similar in that regard (though not as low on volume and weight), so one could consider this a way to bypass the rather restricted '16 slots' backpack system.

    ThacoBelltbone1
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,981
    @kingnight
    the prices of those items will vary actually
    if you go and sell those items to thalantyr for the first time, he will sell it to your for a better price ( since he has none of those items in stock to begin with ) :)

    JuliusBorisovkingnight
  • leeowensoasleeowensoas Member Posts: 81
    Hey, here's a thought. Anyone remember that cut item, the wolfskin bag? It only holds I think about ten items or so so it mostly just works for some minor alleviation, but maybe the nashkel merchant who buys winter wolf pelts could make one for you. Usually you don't meet your first winter wolf til you're pretty far afield, and it doesn't provide nearly the same benefit as a full on bag of holding, but it would help with management a little and might be a good compromise, plus I always hated that it wasn't in the game.

    P.S. I also really feel an ammo belt would be nice. It bugs me that we only got access to 3 of the 4 lesser bags. I can live without a bag of holding but the ammo belt seems like it would fit right in with the gem, potion, and scroll bags

    StummvonBordwehrgugulug5000Proontkingnight
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,995
    One thought: yes, Tranzig does use bags of holding. However, it makes sense that the iron would have to be snuck into the city of Baldur’s Gate. If the Iron Throne kept showing up with caravans untouched, that would be WAY too suspicious. So those bags of iron would be handed off by Tranzig, carried all the way into the city, emptied at a secure location, then returned to Tranzig. So it makes sense that he is waiting at the inn for his contact to return the bags to him.

    ThacoBellProont
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,809

    Hey, here's a thought. Anyone remember that cut item, the wolfskin bag? It only holds I think about ten items or so so it mostly just works for some minor alleviation, but maybe the nashkel merchant who buys winter wolf pelts could make one for you. Usually you don't meet your first winter wolf til you're pretty far afield, and it doesn't provide nearly the same benefit as a full on bag of holding, but it would help with management a little and might be a good compromise, plus I always hated that it wasn't in the game.

    The main issue with 'Wolfskin Bags' or similar BoH substitutes is that their non-enchanted nature can't really be reflected by the game.
    First off, capacity would have to be limited rather by size than by number of items. That's why bags are usually restricted to gems, scrolls, keys or similar small objects.
    A second and more important point is that bags are coded to have a fixed weight, regardless of their content. That's okay for magical bags, but a big issue for their mundane counterparts. Even a potion case is borderline game breaking, imo.
    It would be a different issue if Beamdog could add a feature that will pass weight of stored items on to the wearer of the bag.

    Zaghoul
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    Shandaxx said:

    rede9 said:

    Actually Tranzig should have got at least a bags of holding because it is said in string 6493.

    [Note for Daveaorn 3]Davaeorn,
    As you have probably heard, the iron poison has begun to take effect around the coast. With the majority of iron imports being disrupted by Tazok, almost all of it comes from the tainted source in Nashkel. The Sythillisian uprising in Amn has ensured that no forces from that nation will be able to take action against our mercenary forces. However, the Flaming Fist has caught several of the Blacktalon mercenaries. All of those captured have claimed allegiance with the Zhentarim and have thus shifted any suspicion away from the Iron Throne. I have sent Tranzig to work with the mercenaries in transporting the iron to your base in Cloakwood. He has brought several bags of holding so that he, alone, will make trips into Cloakwood, thereby lessening the chance that Flaming Fist trackers might find your stronghold.

    Rieltar
    Tarsakh, 1368

    I created a ticket
    https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/34626

    I was actually neutral on this matter until that post. I wasn't aware of that, I guess in all the years I never noticed that.

    But if the game itself confirms that Tranzig should have bags of holding - but then he doesn't actually have them, c'mon in my eyes that's a flaw. That's misleading the player.

    Especially if I was a new player and read that I would expect to find at least one such bag somewhere near Tranzig or maybe in Cloakwood.
    "here you see several bags of holding filled with strangely coagulated formations of iron that weigh more than a thousand stone each and are thus impossible for you to pull out. clearly, protective magic was put to work here to make the currently precious resource unextractable and the bags unusable to anyone not designated by their consigner"

    you take the "bags of holding" which is one unsellable item. you can sell them to the thieves guild but they only offer you 5000 gp and that after some convincing because they don't know how to get the iron out either

    end of story

    GreenWarlock
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,920
    Easy, turn it upside down...

    Proont
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    won't come out, the mouth of the bag isn't big enough

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,920
    That's nonsense. It wouldn't have gone into the bag then in the first place.

    Proont
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    lron was shoveled in the bag and magic was cast from outside into the bags contents

    Zaghoul
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,132
    bob_veng said:

    lron was shoveled in the bag and magic was cast from outside into the bags contents

    Hmm, an interesting idea, I suppose it would be similar to Hexxat's bag that has the coffin that can't be removed.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,955
    So.. would that mean you can build a castle inside a bag of holding if you bring in the stones and bricks one at a time?

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    nope, you can't go inside yourself, it's not healthy

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,955
    But if I enthrall a throng of halflings (say, the entire village of Gullykin), cast a spell to make them even smaller and then send them in to build for me?

    And btw, why is it not healthy?

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,995
    Skatan said:

    But if I enthrall a throng of halflings (say, the entire village of Gullykin), cast a spell to make them even smaller and then send them in to build for me?

    And btw, why is it not healthy?

    No air, no water, and Russian dictators riding bears.

    ProontGarvin77ThacoBell
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,132
    Now an undead work crew... I wonder. Put an undead under one's command inside to guard the contents and someone might get a nasty surprise. Reminds me of the bag of devouring with a set up like that. B)

    Proont
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,920
    If hexxat can get into a bag to get into her coffin, then why cannot others get into a bag

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