Skip to content

Politics. The feel in your country.

1504505507509510635

Comments

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    I'll look forward to it :).
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited March 2018

    International homicide rates; you may sort by per capita rate or by total count. If you sort by per capita rate, the United States is 94th and if you sort by total count it winds up being 8th. Either way, that meme--eye candy notwithstanding--is demonstrably incorrect. The most murderous U. S. cities are, in descending order sorted by rate per 100,000, St. Louis, Baltimore, San Juan, New Orleans, and Detroit. Statistics for more United States cities may be found here but I am pretty certain they are pulling their data directly from the FBI's crime statistics portal, which is a very handy tool to have (I keep that url in a "politics research" text file for ease of use). The data is complete up through calendar year 2016--they are still crunching 2017 numbers. Table 12 will break down homicides by weapon type.

    Ironically most USA states doesn't have even 10 homicides with rifles/year. How many rifles exist in USA?

    Also, compare Nevada and California criminality in USA.

    California - 1,368 homicides with guns
    Nevada - 209 total homicides and only 141 homicides with guns

    There are 9,7x more homicides in California than in nevada according yo your link https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12

    Also note that handguns kill more than rifles, so why ban """assault""" rifles?
    The population of California is 10x larger than that of Nevada, for starters. So even with your stats, they basically have the EXACT same gun homicide rate based on population.
    If they have the exact gun homicide based on population, why trow a lot of innocents who only commited a crime without victim in prison?

    The logic of banning assault rifles is that it is optimized for killing large numbers of human beings, while a regular rifle is suited for hunting game. Usually, people who kill people with guns use either handguns or, in the case of mass shootings, automatic or semi-automatic weapons. You don't usually murder someone with a basic hunting rifle for the same reason you don't murder someone with a shotgun: because a handgun is much lighter, and an automatic weapon is much more deadly.

    Automatic weapons are hard as hell to be obtained legally since 1986 and guess what. A lot of people use automatic weapons as you have said. Note that short-barreled rifles/shotguns are under NFA and anyone can cut his barrel. Do you really think that a mass murder will follow gun laws? And firearms aren`t a alien technology. Make a homemade weapon or customize a weapon is not hard. Here is how a "full auto" conversion.



    See a comment from a German guy on that video

    "But many german people buy arms illegal.
    Our strict gun laws don't work.
    You can buy Kalaschnikows an CZ75s on every central station from dealers
    We have 80Million citizens and more than 20 Million Illegal Guns...
    Our Gun Laws = Failed"

    Schreckschuss Channel 2 years ago
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    edited March 2018

    However, I find so much of this argument to be spurious at best.

    About the opening clause of the Second Amendment:
    Here is how the relevant portion of the Second Amendment reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State:. This is a prefatory clause. It announces a purpose. To say that it has a limiting effect on the remainder of the Amendment is absurd.

    Apply the same logic to the Constitution as a whole: the opening sentence goes "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union...". No one believe this to be an obligation on the part of the state to be a "perfect union". It states a purpose for the content of the document, not a legal obligation.

    I'm citing the actual text. The prefatory clause simply states a purpose, which is why I refereed to the Constitution's preamble, which no one represents as actual binding law.


    Actually, you would be wrong here. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the opening statement of the Constitution, the very specific phrase you used here even, IS an obligation as part of the state to be a "more perfect union", as "more perfect" refers to the state of conditions prior to the adoption of the Constitution. AKA, being under the Articles of Confederation. And EXTREMELY binding, as in, perpetual, because the Articles preceding were to be perpetual.

    There was a post-Civil War trial regarding the State of Texas selling U.S. bonds during the war, just prior to seceding, and the argument was whether Texas was a valid state at the time for seceding from the Union at the time. SCOTUS said 'nope, leaving the Union unilaterally wasn't allowed because of the explanation above, so states didn't ACTUALLY leave the Union, and the Civil War was to put down insurrection, and not be a war of conquest. So, the government of Texas acted as a legitimate government for actions that were not against the U.S., and an invalid government for actions that were against the U.S.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
    Post edited by Quickblade on
    Proont
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2018
    So, in more news about those gun protest walk-outs....apparently, in Central Arkansas, some kids decided to accept corporal punishment as their discipline for walking out. Obviously, the key takeaway from this story is that there are still school boards in this country that allow children to be physically assaulted as a discipline measure. And, naturally, the school officials contacted for this story were too cowardly to talk about this policy when confronted about it:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/teens-face-corporal-punishment-in-rural-arkansas-for-participating-in-student-walkout
    ThacoBellProont
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Citing a YouTube comment as a source for statistics is... innovative, I guess?
    ProontsemiticgoddesssmeagolheartDev6
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    It's not the first time it's been done in this thread.
    semiticgoddessProont
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Really? I can't find any instances of that. I can find places where YouTube comments have been cited as evidence that some crazy opinion exists, which is valid if not particularly meaningful. In the case above, the idea seems to be that the YouTube comment is true. It's the difference between using the comment "Obama is a lizard person" to argue that there are people on the Internet who say Obama is a lizard person versus using it to argue that Obama is actually a lizard person.

    But this is a long thread, so maybe I missed something.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438

    The population of California is 10x larger than that of Nevada, for starters. So even with your stats, they basically have the EXACT same gun homicide rate based on population.

    Los Angeles county, by itself, is more populous than 41 states and triple the population of Nevada.
    semiticgoddessProontThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2018
    Anyone interested in getting a sense of what kind of FBI employee Andrew McCabe was would be well-served to read this Twitter thread, which has actual documents and emails showing the steps he took once his wife decided to run for office, obtained courtesy of FOIA requests. This information does not show a nefarious actor:

    joluvProontGrond0
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Hilarious

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/17/andrew-mccabe-was-just-offered-a-job-by-a-congressman-so-he-can-get-his-full-retirement-and-it-just-might-work/?utm_term=.d71116abadfb

    Best quote:

    “My offer of employment to Mr. McCabe is a legitimate offer to work on election security,” Pocan said in a statement. “Free and fair elections are the cornerstone of American democracy and both Republicans and Democrats should be concerned about election integrity.”


    Something tells me Pocan is gonna receive a stern 140 character message very shortly.
    Grond0ThacoBellProont
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2018
    joluv said:

    Citing a YouTube comment as a source for statistics is... innovative, I guess?

    It's as bad as citing "fox&friends" as a source



    and



    What exactly is a "hardened Democrat?" is it similar to a "limp Republican?" Why the stupid labels Mr. President? And why the constant lies about the Russia investigation? It's almost as if you want to undermine it? And can't you count to one? There are "zero republicans" except the head of it is a Republican at least.

    Firing the FBI head and the assistant FBI head and having your fox news channel spout fake news about it has helped I guess. It convinced the House Republicans to close their fake investigation and say no collusion but no one in their right mind believes them.

    It takes all that effort and spin to try and overcome the truth. Most people don't believe you, your credibility is shot over "crowdsize" and for what? If there really is stuff they are still going to find it. Are limp republicans going to let you lie and be a conman profiteering off the office of the presidency appointing family and unqualified and nutty people to the government? If so that's a pretty damn good reason to vote them out.
    Proont
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2018
    It has also been learned that, like Comey, McCabe took contemporaneous notes about Trump's efforts to stop the Russia investigation. Here is his response to that news:

    No shit Sherlock. I don't imagine Andrew McCabe took out a goddamn notebook while he was in the room with you to write down what you were saying in real-time. There isn't a single person in the world besides Donald Trump who thinks that is what the definition of contemporaneous notes means.
    Proont
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2018
    Been beating this dead horse for over a year now, but, if it wasn't apparent already, Sessions himself has been lying his ass off about his involvement about the whole thing, and witnesses have told Mueller so:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-sessions-exclusive/exclusive-sources-contradict-sessions-testimony-he-opposed-russia-outreach-idUSKBN1GU0NC
    smeagolheartProont
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2018

    Been beating this dead horse for over a year now, but, if it wasn't apparent already, Sessions himself has been lying his ass off about his involvement about the whole thing, and witnesses have told Mueller so:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-sessions-exclusive/exclusive-sources-contradict-sessions-testimony-he-opposed-russia-outreach-idUSKBN1GU0NC

    it's ridiculous he said he fired McCabe for misleading testimony. He just can't tell the truth. That was not the reason. That was the excuse, not the reason.

    Same thing when he quit protecting dreamers at Trumps command his statement said he quit because lawsuits found it illegal, which is not true. Jesus, be a man and say your true intentions, Trump doesn't want to protect dreamers because his supporters are anti immigrant. Just tell the truth Jeff, I mean we know Trump is incapable of speaking without lying but you are supposed to be for truth and justice instead your a partisan hack who is Trumps toady.
    Proont
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2018
    Trump forced senior members of his administration to sign the same kind of nondisclosure agreements that he foisted upon his porn star mistress. The agreements prohibit the staffers from disclosing confidential information from their time in the White House and impose severe penalties if anyone were to violate the terms of the agreement. The agreement extends beyond his time in the presidency. These likely won't stand up in court due to the fact that the people who signed them were government officials who are supposed to be public servants not Trump servants. This is not normal.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-nondisclosure-agreements-came-with-him-to-the-white-house/2018/03/18/226f4522-29ee-11e8-b79d-f3d931db7f68_story.html
    semiticgoddessProont
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 702

    Trump forced senior members of his administration to sign the same kind of nondisclosure agreements that he foisted upon his porn star mistress. The agreements prohibit the staffers from disclosing confidential information from their time in the White House and impose severe penalties if anyone were to violate the terms of the agreement. The agreement extends beyond his time in the presidency. These likely won't stand up in court due to the fact that the people who signed them were government officials who are supposed to be public servants not Trump servants. This is not normal.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-nondisclosure-agreements-came-with-him-to-the-white-house/2018/03/18/226f4522-29ee-11e8-b79d-f3d931db7f68_story.html

    Sadly, I think everyone Trump has ever associated with are either his servants or his enemies in his mind.
    smeagolheartProont
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    Anyone interested in getting a sense of what kind of FBI employee Andrew McCabe was would be well-served to read this Twitter thread, which has actual documents and emails showing the steps he took once his wife decided to run for office, obtained courtesy of FOIA requests. This information does not show a nefarious actor:


    Yes, but this begs the question why did the OPR, headed by a Mueller appointee no less, recommend his firing?

    I think that people close to the scene (who are NOT political appointees) who were tasked with investigating his misconduct know more than us.
    Balrog99Proont
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    edited March 2018
    Another explosive device in Austin early last evening; this one was a bit west and south of the three previous events, was left on the side of the road, and--here is the best part--it was triggered by a tripwire which two guys on bicycles hit. The suspect is improving his designs and branching out, no longer relying on timers or motion sensors. APD cannot rule out a copycat but I doubt that.

    *************

    I disagree with Trump--the Mueller Investigation isn't a witch hunt so much as it is trying to continue to justify its existence. To date, it has resulted in guilty pleas only for a few relatively minor charges--some of which, such as "lying to investigators", wouldn't even exist if the investigation had not been undertaken--and it hasn't landed any "big fish". Gates and Manafort are the largest fish so far, and most of the charges against Gates were dropped; I suspect most of them were fabricated charges, anyway, designed to scare him into submission and compliance. Many of the charges against Manafort are the same as the ones against Gates except he isn't playing ball--he entered "not guilty" to all charges, which will force Mueller to have to prove them. All those Russian nations which got charged...why even bother? They will never be caught or extradited so that was a waste of time and paperwork.

    The part of me which enjoys dark humor and irony, the same facet of me which looks forward to the meteor strike or some other statistically anomalous catastrophic event, *wants* Trump to fire Mueller...just to see what happens. I have no idea where that would take us but it sure would be fun for a few weeks. *sigh* You are all probably right, though--the genie never goes back in the bottle.

    *************

    Oh, and the Cambridge Analytics data dump from Facebook....well, that is why you shouldn't put too much information about yourself on social media, "like" pages or posts or groups, and why you shouldn't discuss things such as politics or religion on a platform which can be linked to your offline identity. You are a sucker if you do.
    Balrog99ProontUnderstandMouseMagic
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I thought "green" would make all other colors irrelevant but I guess that time hasn't fully happened yet. As noted, "having money" doesn't make up for "not having a father" but that problem cannot be resolved by legislation or government programs.
    semiticgoddessbooinyoureyesBalrog99Proont
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    "if not the only reason"

    The rates of black fatherlessness and black incarceration rates don't add up. I think we should stop making an endless stream of political excuses for what amount to personal decisions. Nobody is forcing black families to split apart.
    Dev6
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    I'm not one to place all the black community's ills on the institution of slavery, considering it ended 150 years ago. It is important to note, however, that most plantations had separate housing for men and women. While procreation obviously occurred, it was not within the context of a nuclear family.

    In slavery there was no family culture at all. It is not that big of a leap to say that the deterioration of the average black family doesn't have anything to do with slavery.

    The worrying part, however, is that the average black family was more intact during the 50s than today. So it is hard to identify one root cause for a multi-factorial problem.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2018

    "if not the only reason"

    The rates of black fatherlessness and black incarceration rates don't add up. I think we should stop making an endless stream of political excuses for what amount to personal decisions. Nobody is forcing black families to split apart.

    And my guess is the same rates of crime would be seen among white children from poor and broken homes in poor rural areas as well, with obvious factor being poverty. But let's by all means continue pushing this myth about black families being intrinsically immoral as compared to white ones put in the same circumstances. I doubt you're gonna find a ton of poor black single mothers who grew up in a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house is some cozy suburb. I'd bet anything the poor areas of Applachia have mirror image percentages of the same problems. Escaping from a cycle of poverty is very much not the norm, or more people would do it. Poverty breeds hopelessness, impulsivity, desperation, bad choices and crime. This has been true throughout history across the world.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    ThacoBellProontSon_of_Imoen
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    Most social problems can't be solved by legislation (which is one of the reasons I'm not impressed by politicians who call for cultural solutions they can't actually implement), but "not having a father" can be partly resolved through policy. One of the reasons, if not the only reason, why many black boys don't have a father in the house is because of the high incarceration rates for black men. Finding a way to decrease the incarceration gap would certainly help.

    We're long overdue for criminal justice reform. Putting aside the humanitarian problem with long-duration imprisonment, it's not very good at reforming criminals, and it's extremely expensive. I never liked the idea of spending tens of thousands of dollars to not just torture people but also increase criminal recidivism.

    I'm not sure a dad that is cooling his heels in prison would be a good example to his children if he wasn't in prison. I would guess that the reasons people are in prisons probably are reasons that wouldn't make that person a great parent (black or white). Just sayin'...
    Dev6semiticgoddessProont
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited March 2018

    Nobody is forcing black families to split apart.

    Incarceration isn't the only cause, but incarceration does in fact force families to split apart. The child of the prisoner and that child's mother both suffer from the father's incarceration, but unlike the father, they can't actually stop it, even though it affects them.

    The reason I focus on incarceration rather than personal decisions (I'll go ahead and say it out loud: we're talking about deadbeat dads) is because the government can actually change incarceration policies, while the government can't do anything to promote family values other than simply say "we need more fathers to be close to their kids." People and politicians have been saying variations of that phrase for decades, and that call has yet to accomplish anything.
    jjstraka34ThacoBellProont
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    I'm not one to place all the black community's ills on the institution of slavery, considering it ended 150 years ago. It is important to note, however, that most plantations had separate housing for men and women. While procreation obviously occurred, it was not within the context of a nuclear family.

    In slavery there was no family culture at all. It is not that big of a leap to say that the deterioration of the average black family doesn't have anything to do with slavery.

    The worrying part, however, is that the average black family was more intact during the 50s than today. So it is hard to identify one root cause for a multi-factorial problem.

    Slavery ended 150 years ago. African-Americans were still second-class citizens in much of the country until just over 50 years ago, when most of our parent's were children. It's not like we have to undertake an anthropological study to know about the 1960s.
    bob_vengbooinyoureyesProont
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    One way to reduce the number of deadbeat dads is to improve access to birth control and abortion services.
    MathsorcererProont
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    Anyone interested in getting a sense of what kind of FBI employee Andrew McCabe was would be well-served to read this Twitter thread, which has actual documents and emails showing the steps he took once his wife decided to run for office, obtained courtesy of FOIA requests. This information does not show a nefarious actor:


    Yes, but this begs the question why did the OPR, headed by a Mueller appointee no less, recommend his firing?

    I think that people close to the scene (who are NOT political appointees) who were tasked with investigating his misconduct know more than us.
    "Do it or your next."

    From what I have read, the whole procedure was rushed so McCabe would be fired before his retirement date. It's a kangaroo court system, that as a citizen of the country it happened in, you should be worried.

    This isn't to say that McCabe wasn't guilty, but he was owed due process which he didn't get. You also have to remember why he was fired, which is leaking information about the Clinton Email Investigation during the election. If this was a breach of public trust, why did it take the Sessions this long to bring charges against him, especially when the same excuse was used for firing Comey.
    Proont
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    joluv said:

    One way to reduce the number of deadbeat dads is to improve access to birth control and abortion services.

    Birth control is available from almost literally any store. I also fail to see why murdering children is a good resolution to ANYTHING.
    themazingnessWarChiefZekeBalrog99
This discussion has been closed.