Let's avoid pious declarations of our own capacity for love and understanding, lest we imply that other people are not as wise and good and loving as we are.
It can come off as less of a statement of sympathy and more of a condescending boast. "I am wise and kind enough to forgive you for your ignorance and cruelty."
Didn't imply it that way. Hate does breed misunderstanding though.
Rofl, Macron talking of Palestine right in front of Bibi and cameras.
EDIT: Macron just condomned excessive violence against Gaza citizens... so much for someone who only wanted to talk of Iran. The words "accute humanitarian crisis" were pronounced.
Netanyahu, embarassed "I did not ask Macron to leave the agreement with Iran", scratching his nose. "There are things we discussed we cannot make public".
Alright, I guess the meeting didn't quite go as he expected, how does that contrast with the meeting with Merkel.
Since it is getting scant attention here in the US, seems as good a time as any to bring up that the IDF murdered (yes, murdered) a Palestinian medic by shooting her with one of those really inaccurate and indiscrimnate weapons called a sniper rifle, despite the fact that she had her arms in the air and was wearing white, a UNIVERSAL symbol of medics in the field of battle. Tell me how this isn't "terrorism":
I don't know how much clearer it can be at this point that Israeli Defense Forces deliberately target Palestinian medical workers and buildings. This is a war crime.
I started to mention that story yesterday but didn't do it. On the one hand, just because someone got shot at that border location is not an indication that the IDF did it. On the other hand, tensions are high there and far too much of the time the IDF is trigger-happy, so they probably did shoot her, even if on accident. Unfortunately, I doubt any individual soldier will ever be charged with her murder--clearly her death was an illegal act, presuming the IDF did it--so the story will devolve into another Internet conspiracy theory.
I started to mention that story yesterday but didn't do it. On the one hand, just because someone got shot at that border location is not an indication that the IDF did it. On the other hand, tensions are high there and far too much of the time the IDF is trigger-happy, so they probably did shoot her, even if on accident. Unfortunately, I doubt any individual soldier will ever be charged with her murder--clearly her death was an illegal act, presuming the IDF did it--so the story will devolve into another Internet conspiracy theory.
It never happened unless she was shot at point-blank tange, I was standing right next her and the IDF soldier's CO's all the way up to Netanyahu were there screaming at him to pull the trigger. Even then it could have been hallucinatory drugs...
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Netanyahu, embarassed "I did not ask Macron to leave the agreement with Iran", scratching his nose. "There are things we discussed we cannot make public".
Alright, I guess the meeting didn't quite go as he expected, how does that contrast with the meeting with Merkel.
I wonder why he can't discuss, in public, what he's talked about? Probably because it was morally wrong or illegal or bigoted.
Since it is getting scant attention here in the US, seems as good a time as any to bring up that the IDF murdered (yes, murdered) a Palestinian medic by shooting her with one of those really inaccurate and indiscrimnate weapons called a sniper rifle, despite the fact that she had her arms in the air and was wearing white, a UNIVERSAL symbol of medics in the field of battle. Tell me how this isn't "terrorism":
I don't know how much clearer it can be at this point that Israeli Defense Forces deliberately target Palestinian medical workers and buildings. This is a war crime.
Have you been there? you know exactly what happened? "she walked with her arms in the air" say an ANONYMOUS WITNESS, so this is the "smoking gun", THE exclusive evidence that the IDF targets deliberately medical workers (it explains the tens of medical workers casualties so far..)
Of course let's ignore the fact that the protest are with extremely violent nature, and that Palestinians who try to INFILTRATE to Israel many times carry explosives, pipe bombs, grenades, or open fire on IDF soldiers, and she could easily got shot by a cross-fire or a ricochet. But who cares, she was walking calmly while waving and deliberately got shot by the IDF fits much better to the agenda.
I wonder why you think it is a good time to bring this up, and didn't find it a good time to bring up that last week the Islamic JIhad and Hamas launched over 100 rockets and mortars to Israeli towns, which one of them even fell near a kindergarten?? Of course no one cares because it is just mortars... (I don't wish for any of you to experience a mortar attack),
As unfortunate such incidents are, it doesn't indicates that the IDF is deliberately targets civilians/medical workers, and it doesn't matter how hard you want to believe it, it is just VERY far from reality.
I wonder why he can't discuss, in public, what he's talked about? Probably because it was morally wrong or illegal or bigoted.
It could be that the meeting simply didn't go the way he wanted it to and so he doesn't want to talk about it. Just because you disagree with a political leader does not mean that that person is always engaged in immoral, unethical, or bigoted behavior. I am uncertain why you feel the need to vilify those with whom you disagree.
@mch202: I think you mean "Just because one IDF soldier targeted a medical worker doesn't mean it's Israeli policy to kill medical workers," not "Israel doesn't do that at all." It's more plausible that this one soldier was disobeying IDF protocol, or maybe that the bullet passed through an enemy soldier and hit a medical worker by sheer coincidence (though that second one seems like a bit of a stretch to me).
Otherwise, it would be like saying "Hamas doesn't really fire rockets at kindergartens." Because that's what literally happened. That rocket did nearly hit a kindergarten; that sniper did kill a medical worker.
Personally, I think a lot of it just depends on the individual soldier. I'm sure there are Israeli soldiers who would hold their fire even if it endangered their own life just to make sure he or she didn't accidentally harm any innocent civilians. I'm sure there are Israeli soldiers who would gladly take an excuse to shoot a noncombatant in the chaos. In between those two extremes lies the majority of IDF soldiers.
I doubt that IDF officials encourage their subordinates to fire upon noncombatants. I do think Israel tends to be overzealous to the point of knowingly killing innocents at least occasionally, but I find it implausible that a civilized nation like Israel would have its top brass secretly pushing their soldiers to commit war crimes--especially considering, to my knowledge, there's no documentary evidence for it.
You'd think that if Israeli officials were quietly telling their soldiers to kill civilians, then at some point a disenchanted soldier would come forward with the knowledge and expose it. That's the sort of conversation you could easily catch on tape.
I don't think there's some secret, unofficial policy to kill noncombatants. At worst, I think those civilian deaths are the result of bad decisions and over-zealousness in the fog of war, compounded by Palestinian policies that knowingly fail to keep their own noncombatants out of the fray.
I don't think there's some secret, unofficial policy to kill noncombatants. At worst, I think those civilian deaths are the result of bad decisions and over-zealousness in the fog of war, compounded by Palestinian policies that knowingly fail to keep their own noncombatants out of the fray.
I don't think there's a policy to kill noncombatants directly, but the Israeli rules of engagement do allow soldiers to shoot noncombatants for approaching the border, even when there's no direct risk to Israeli life and that means that from time to time noncombatants will be shot. That doesn't have to indicate there's any mistake or unfortunate ricochet, but just that some soldiers will be more zealous than others about taking advantage of their ability to kill enemies. As I posted a while ago, on the face of it these rules of engagement appear to be illegal under international law and a case stating that is currently being pursued in the Israeli courts.
The imbalance in casualties is another aspect that I think suggests that there's a problem with the way Israel is responding at the moment. The clashes at the border in recent months have resulted in over 100 Palestinian deaths, but not a single Israeli killed or even seriously wounded (this year so far there have been 6 Israelis killed by Palestinians, but none of those were associated with the border protests). To me that seems pretty compelling evidence that Israeli soldiers are not following international law - which says lethal force should only be used in this type of situation if defenders face real risks themselves. Of course this is just another way of pointing out the issue with the rules of engagement.
An Israeli Cabinet minister said yesterday that the casualty figures don't tell the true story about who's the aggressor in this conflict. I certainly accept they don't tell the whole story and I know perfectly well there are far more individual aggressive actions by Palestinians in the border protests, even if those actions are mainly ineffectual. However, I do find it difficult to accept that the casualty figures tell none of the story about what's happening.
I don't think there's some secret, unofficial policy to kill noncombatants. At worst, I think those civilian deaths are the result of bad decisions and over-zealousness in the fog of war, compounded by Palestinian policies that knowingly fail to keep their own noncombatants out of the fray.
I don't think there's a policy to kill noncombatants directly, but the Israeli rules of engagement do allow soldiers to shoot noncombatants for approaching the border, even when there's no direct risk to Israeli life and that means that from time to time noncombatants will be shot. That doesn't have to indicate there's any mistake or unfortunate ricochet, but just that some soldiers will be more zealous than others about taking advantage of their ability to kill enemies. As I posted a while ago, on the face of it these rules of engagement appear to be illegal under international law and a case stating that is currently being pursued in the Israeli courts.
The imbalance in casualties is another aspect that I think suggests that there's a problem with the way Israel is responding at the moment. The clashes at the border in recent months have resulted in over 100 Palestinian deaths, but not a single Israeli killed or even seriously wounded (this year so far there have been 6 Israelis killed by Palestinians, but none of those were associated with the border protests). To me that seems pretty compelling evidence that Israeli soldiers are not following international law - which says lethal force should only be used in this type of situation if defenders face real risks themselves. Of course this is just another way of pointing out the issue with the rules of engagement.
An Israeli Cabinet minister said yesterday that the casualty figures don't tell the true story about who's the aggressor in this conflict. I certainly accept they don't tell the whole story and I know perfectly well there are far more individual aggressive actions by Palestinians in the border protests, even if those actions are mainly ineffectual. However, I do find it difficult to accept that the casualty figures tell none of the story about what's happening.
How many casualties does the US incur with their drone program? Likely 0? I guess if they kill one person that's infinitely more people than they lose (or likely ever will with drones). I really think the idea that casualty counts mean anything is very outdated. Should Israel hold off until they start losing soldiers? Maybe let people get closer and closer until finally they start having soldiers killed before they fight back? Let x amount of people cross the border until their own civilians start dying? I know everybody loves an underdog but unlike in the movies, in real life the underdog gets their ass kicked.
I don't think there's some secret, unofficial policy to kill noncombatants. At worst, I think those civilian deaths are the result of bad decisions and over-zealousness in the fog of war, compounded by Palestinian policies that knowingly fail to keep their own noncombatants out of the fray.
I don't think there's a policy to kill noncombatants directly, but the Israeli rules of engagement do allow soldiers to shoot noncombatants for approaching the border, even when there's no direct risk to Israeli life and that means that from time to time noncombatants will be shot. That doesn't have to indicate there's any mistake or unfortunate ricochet, but just that some soldiers will be more zealous than others about taking advantage of their ability to kill enemies. As I posted a while ago, on the face of it these rules of engagement appear to be illegal under international law and a case stating that is currently being pursued in the Israeli courts.
The imbalance in casualties is another aspect that I think suggests that there's a problem with the way Israel is responding at the moment. The clashes at the border in recent months have resulted in over 100 Palestinian deaths, but not a single Israeli killed or even seriously wounded (this year so far there have been 6 Israelis killed by Palestinians, but none of those were associated with the border protests). To me that seems pretty compelling evidence that Israeli soldiers are not following international law - which says lethal force should only be used in this type of situation if defenders face real risks themselves. Of course this is just another way of pointing out the issue with the rules of engagement.
An Israeli Cabinet minister said yesterday that the casualty figures don't tell the true story about who's the aggressor in this conflict. I certainly accept they don't tell the whole story and I know perfectly well there are far more individual aggressive actions by Palestinians in the border protests, even if those actions are mainly ineffectual. However, I do find it difficult to accept that the casualty figures tell none of the story about what's happening.
How many casualties does the US incur with their drone program? Likely 0? I guess if they kill one person that's infinitely more people than they lose (or likely ever will with drones).
So are you suggesting religion is beyond criticism? That is a horrible idea.
No. Definitely not. Nothing should be beyond criticism. However, when you start criticizing things that are building blocks of a person's identity, dont be surprised when they think you're criticizing them. I think this thread can somewhat attest to that happening already.
I don't think there's some secret, unofficial policy to kill noncombatants. At worst, I think those civilian deaths are the result of bad decisions and over-zealousness in the fog of war, compounded by Palestinian policies that knowingly fail to keep their own noncombatants out of the fray.
I don't think there's a policy to kill noncombatants directly, but the Israeli rules of engagement do allow soldiers to shoot noncombatants for approaching the border, even when there's no direct risk to Israeli life and that means that from time to time noncombatants will be shot. That doesn't have to indicate there's any mistake or unfortunate ricochet, but just that some soldiers will be more zealous than others about taking advantage of their ability to kill enemies. As I posted a while ago, on the face of it these rules of engagement appear to be illegal under international law and a case stating that is currently being pursued in the Israeli courts.
The imbalance in casualties is another aspect that I think suggests that there's a problem with the way Israel is responding at the moment. The clashes at the border in recent months have resulted in over 100 Palestinian deaths, but not a single Israeli killed or even seriously wounded (this year so far there have been 6 Israelis killed by Palestinians, but none of those were associated with the border protests). To me that seems pretty compelling evidence that Israeli soldiers are not following international law - which says lethal force should only be used in this type of situation if defenders face real risks themselves. Of course this is just another way of pointing out the issue with the rules of engagement.
An Israeli Cabinet minister said yesterday that the casualty figures don't tell the true story about who's the aggressor in this conflict. I certainly accept they don't tell the whole story and I know perfectly well there are far more individual aggressive actions by Palestinians in the border protests, even if those actions are mainly ineffectual. However, I do find it difficult to accept that the casualty figures tell none of the story about what's happening.
How many casualties does the US incur with their drone program? Likely 0? I guess if they kill one person that's infinitely more people than they lose (or likely ever will with drones).
That's not how you math
1 is 1 more than 0
As a ratio it's infinity. Anyway, I'm sure the US has killed much more than 1 person with drone strikes so my point is valid regardless.
As a ratio it's undefined if we are assuming 0 casualties. But of course I understand what you mean. Math and logic are kinda my shtick so I tend to grab onto those.
So today Donald Trump again played what he believes is his ultimate culture war card by rescinding the invitation to the White House of the Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles, claiming it was over the national anthem protests. 3 problems with this: #1 no Eagles player even knelt during the anthem this year. #2 Despite this fact, FOX News plastered images of Eagles players on one knee on the field, but it was NOT during the national anthem, but during a moment of prayer on the field. This was done on purpose, it was not a mistake. #3 (and this is the kicker) Instead of hosting the Eagles, Trump instead decided to have a military band play patriotic songs in the Rose Garden. The problem?? Trump DID NOT KNOW THE WORDS to "God Bless America" while trying to sing along with it when it was played. If you are going to pull such a transparently bullshit stunt, at least take the time to learn the words to the song. Whining about the patriotism of others and then having the balls to clearly not even know the words to a supposed "patriotic" song is just about the most Trump thing I can imagine. Everything about him is so obviously full of shit on every level, and it's frightening that this kind of stunt actually works on about 35% of the population. Again, EVEN IF you believe forced patriotism is a virtuous thing, how can one dismiss the fact that the figurehead of that movement doesn't even know the words to the songs these people think are so damn important?? I mean hell, at least televangelists can recite a bible verse or two correctly when the moment calls for it. Trump can't even be bothered to pretend.
So today Donald Trump again played what he believes is his ultimate culture war card by rescinding the invitation to the White House of the Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles, claiming it was over the national anthem protests. 3 problems with this: #1 no Eagles player even knelt during the anthem this year. #2 Despite this fact, FOX News plastered images of Eagles players on one knee on the field, but it was NOT during the national anthem, but during a moment of prayer on the field. This was done on purpose, it was not a mistake. #3 (and this is the kicker) Instead of hosting the Eagles, Trump instead decided to have a military band play patriotic songs in the Rose Garden. The problem?? Trump DID NOT KNOW THE WORDS to "God Bless America" while trying to sing along with it when it was played. If you are going to pull such a transparently bullshit stunt, at least take the time to learn the words to the song. Whining about the patriotism of others and then having the balls to clearly not even know the words to a supposed "patriotic" song is just about the most Trump thing I can imagine. Everything about him is so obviously full of shit on every level, and it's frightening that this kind of stunt actually works on about 35% of the population. Again, EVEN IF you believe forced patriotism is a virtuous thing, how can one dismiss the fact that the figurehead of that movement doesn't even know the words to the songs these people think are so damn important?? I mean hell, at least televangelists can recite a bible verse or two correctly when the moment calls for it. Trump can't even be bothered to pretend.
This was pretty dirty by Trump and the White House. Should of just let the team come, take the photo op, and be done with it.
So today Donald Trump again played what he believes is his ultimate culture war card by rescinding the invitation to the White House of the Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles, claiming it was over the national anthem protests. 3 problems with this: #1 no Eagles player even knelt during the anthem this year. #2 Despite this fact, FOX News plastered images of Eagles players on one knee on the field, but it was NOT during the national anthem, but during a moment of prayer on the field. This was done on purpose, it was not a mistake. #3 (and this is the kicker) Instead of hosting the Eagles, Trump instead decided to have a military band play patriotic songs in the Rose Garden. The problem?? Trump DID NOT KNOW THE WORDS to "God Bless America" while trying to sing along with it when it was played. If you are going to pull such a transparently bullshit stunt, at least take the time to learn the words to the song. Whining about the patriotism of others and then having the balls to clearly not even know the words to a supposed "patriotic" song is just about the most Trump thing I can imagine. Everything about him is so obviously full of shit on every level, and it's frightening that this kind of stunt actually works on about 35% of the population. Again, EVEN IF you believe forced patriotism is a virtuous thing, how can one dismiss the fact that the figurehead of that movement doesn't even know the words to the songs these people think are so damn important?? I mean hell, at least televangelists can recite a bible verse or two correctly when the moment calls for it. Trump can't even be bothered to pretend.
This was pretty dirty by Trump and the White House. Should of just let the team come, take the photo op, and be done with it.
My main concern is just how hard Trump continues to push jingoism and an almost cult-like worship of "The flag and the anthem" as one of his main political strategies. I mean, it was pretty damn bad under Bush, but nothing like we are seeing right now. Nothing good can come of this.
This was pretty dirty by Trump and the White House. Should of just let the team come, take the photo op, and be done with it.
Apparently only a couple players actually were going to come, probably on account of Trump calling them SOBs on more than one occasion and being a hateful disagreeable person in general. At least one player said that was exactly the reason they weren't going which doesn't even take politics into account.
So tiny hands Trump was facing the prospect of the indignity of a photo of the president and a small crowd of players.
Trump, being obsessed with crowd size, pulled the "you're not breaking up with me, I'm breaking up with you!" move - again. And played the culture wars card again because that's all he has - hate and fear mongering.
I have a lot of quotes if you're into it. I am simply making the point that people who make the claim that Jesus was (is portrayed in the bible as) all lovey dovey love thy neighbour are mistaken. Perhaps we should jump straight into revelations?
Jesus was far more than "Lovey dovey" He had bite when he needed to. Also Revelations is trippy. Its the end times of the world. At that point, is when all second chances end and everyone has chosen a side. Then it is the time that everyone faces the consequences of their choices.
I have a lot of quotes if you're into it. I am simply making the point that people who make the claim that Jesus was (is portrayed in the bible as) all lovey dovey love thy neighbour are mistaken. Perhaps we should jump straight into revelations?
Jesus was far more than "Lovey dovey" He had bite when he needed to. Also Revelations is trippy. Its the end times of the world. At that point, is when all second chances end and everyone has chosen a side. Then it is the time that everyone faces the consequences of their choices.
The trouble with Revelation is those 4 horses have been running amok for a LONG time. I guess if you're immortal time is pretty meaningless.
I'm pretty sure every generation of fundamentalist Christians since the resurrection has thought they were the last. Not very conducive to long term planning...
This was pretty dirty by Trump and the White House. Should of just let the team come, take the photo op, and be done with it.
Apparently only a couple players actually were going to come, probably on account of Trump calling them SOBs on more than one occasion and being a hateful disagreeable person in general. At least one player said that was exactly the reason they weren't going which doesn't even take politics into account.
So tiny hands Trump was facing the prospect of the indignity of a photo of the president and a small crowd of players.
Trump, being obsessed with crowd size, pulled the "you're not breaking up with me, I'm breaking up with you!" move - again. And played the culture wars card again because that's all he has - hate and fear mongering.
Worse than I thought, only 1 eagles player was confirmed to be going. Lol.
And now we have a fourth front we are fighting in the new trade war. We are now going to get hit from all sides. Mexico, Canada, the EU and China are now all imposing billions in dollars in tariffs on us. These are ALL essentially going to be taxes on these goods on US consumers. There is simply no way people aren't going to feel this hit their pocket book in the next 3 to 6 months. Add that to the continuing increase in gas prices, and you have to wonder where this so-called great economy is going to be by the end of the year:
And now we have a fourth front we are fighting in the new trade war. We are now going to get hit from all sides. Mexico, Canada, the EU and China are now all imposing billions in dollars in tariffs on us. These are ALL essentially going to be taxes on these goods on US consumers. There is simply no way people aren't going to feel this hit their pocket book in the next 3 to 6 months. Add that to the continuing increase in gas prices, and you have to wonder where this so-called great economy is going to be by the end of the year:
Brilliant strategy by a net IMPORTING country. I have to agree with you on this one @jjstraka34. Even if we achieve FULL employment I'm not sure we come out ahead. There goes my tax refund...
Comments
EDIT: Macron just condomned excessive violence against Gaza citizens... so much for someone who only wanted to talk of Iran. The words "accute humanitarian crisis" were pronounced.
Alright, I guess the meeting didn't quite go as he expected, how does that contrast with the meeting with Merkel.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-protests/israeli-army-kills-palestinian-nurse-in-gaza-border-protest-medics-idUSKCN1IX5OA
I don't know how much clearer it can be at this point that Israeli Defense Forces deliberately target Palestinian medical workers and buildings. This is a war crime.
Edit: Unless of course Fox News reports it.
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Of course let's ignore the fact that the protest are with extremely violent nature, and that Palestinians who try to INFILTRATE to Israel many times carry explosives, pipe bombs, grenades, or open fire on IDF soldiers, and she could easily got shot by a cross-fire or a ricochet. But who cares, she was walking calmly while waving and deliberately got shot by the IDF fits much better to the agenda.
I wonder why you think it is a good time to bring this up, and didn't find it a good time to bring up that last week the Islamic JIhad and Hamas launched over 100 rockets and mortars to Israeli towns, which one of them even fell near a kindergarten?? Of course no one cares because it is just mortars... (I don't wish for any of you to experience a mortar attack),
As unfortunate such incidents are, it doesn't indicates that the IDF is deliberately targets civilians/medical workers, and it doesn't matter how hard you want to believe it, it is just VERY far from reality.
Otherwise, it would be like saying "Hamas doesn't really fire rockets at kindergartens." Because that's what literally happened. That rocket did nearly hit a kindergarten; that sniper did kill a medical worker.
Joyeux anniversaire avec un peu de retard!!!
I doubt that IDF officials encourage their subordinates to fire upon noncombatants. I do think Israel tends to be overzealous to the point of knowingly killing innocents at least occasionally, but I find it implausible that a civilized nation like Israel would have its top brass secretly pushing their soldiers to commit war crimes--especially considering, to my knowledge, there's no documentary evidence for it.
You'd think that if Israeli officials were quietly telling their soldiers to kill civilians, then at some point a disenchanted soldier would come forward with the knowledge and expose it. That's the sort of conversation you could easily catch on tape.
I don't think there's some secret, unofficial policy to kill noncombatants. At worst, I think those civilian deaths are the result of bad decisions and over-zealousness in the fog of war, compounded by Palestinian policies that knowingly fail to keep their own noncombatants out of the fray.
The imbalance in casualties is another aspect that I think suggests that there's a problem with the way Israel is responding at the moment. The clashes at the border in recent months have resulted in over 100 Palestinian deaths, but not a single Israeli killed or even seriously wounded (this year so far there have been 6 Israelis killed by Palestinians, but none of those were associated with the border protests). To me that seems pretty compelling evidence that Israeli soldiers are not following international law - which says lethal force should only be used in this type of situation if defenders face real risks themselves. Of course this is just another way of pointing out the issue with the rules of engagement.
An Israeli Cabinet minister said yesterday that the casualty figures don't tell the true story about who's the aggressor in this conflict. I certainly accept they don't tell the whole story and I know perfectly well there are far more individual aggressive actions by Palestinians in the border protests, even if those actions are mainly ineffectual. However, I do find it difficult to accept that the casualty figures tell none of the story about what's happening.
So tiny hands Trump was facing the prospect of the indignity of a photo of the president and a small crowd of players.
Trump, being obsessed with crowd size, pulled the "you're not breaking up with me, I'm breaking up with you!" move - again. And played the culture wars card again because that's all he has - hate and fear mongering.
I'm pretty sure every generation of fundamentalist Christians since the resurrection has thought they were the last. Not very conducive to long term planning...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2779699-report-nick-foles-only-confirmed-eagles-player-planning-to-attend-white-house